Maths can be weird....
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Basically, the Greeks founded mathematical logic and their idea that maths is like a building. You need the initial building blocks to be able to construct the building. That's why we have definitions and axioms to start things out.
Mind you, I even read somewhere people are arguing why 1 + 1 = 2.....maths is indeed weird.
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yeah i know, contradictions are used alot.Originally posted by Gasfene:i will try to dig notes and see if i can understand the proof again.
Anyway for obvious question like 1*0=0, the first step is always to suppse 1*0 not equal to 0 then proof by contradiction.
you can ignore me. while my questions are technically correct. it does boil down to obscure objections that are of no real interest to most of us including myself
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what algebra proof?Originally posted by CoolMyth:Nobody appreciates my algebra proof.
anyway, i dont think calculus proof is possible because logic is logic and calculus is calculus. true there may be overlap in some cases but for certain case, you can only do it by logic.
Like i have shown with the graph of 1/|x|, it shows the limits when x approach 0 , y approaches infinity but there is no mention of why 1/|0| is undefined. -
True.Originally posted by hisoka:yeah i know, contradictions are used alot.
you can ignore me. while my questions are technically correct. it does boil down to obscure objections that are of no real interest to most of us including myself
I prefer to know things like the next opening 4D/Toto prize numbers. -
i think it was Hilbert
Originally posted by CoolMyth:Basically, the Greeks founded mathematical logic and their idea that maths is like a building. You need the initial building blocks to be able to construct the building. That's why we have definitions and axioms to start things out.
Mind you, I even read somewhere people are arguing why 1 + 1 = 2.....maths is indeed weird. -
The 0*x = 0.Originally posted by Gasfene:what algebra proof?
anyway, i dont think calculus proof is possible because logic is logic and calculus is calculus. true there may be overlap in some cases but for certain case, you can only do it by logic.
Like i have shown with the graph of 1/|x|, it shows the limits when x approach 0 , y approaches infinity but there is no mention of why 1/|0| is undefined.
Yeah, I realised you can't purely argue that 1/0 is undefined purely by the fact that the limit doesn't exist for 1/x at x = 0 due to continuity and such.
Dun know dun know lor. -
i heard not proved yet isit??Originally posted by CoolMyth:Basically, the Greeks founded mathematical logic and their idea that maths is like a building. You need the initial building blocks to be able to construct the building. That's why we have definitions and axioms to start things out.
Mind you, I even read somewhere people are arguing why 1 + 1 = 2.....maths is indeed weird. -
Only 0*1=0 has a proof to it.Originally posted by hisoka:yeah i know, contradictions are used alot.
you can ignore me. while my questions are technically correct. it does boil down to obscure objections that are of no real interest to most of us including myself
0 is defined as a real number.
it is defined to be so and needs no proving.
If you think it needs proving, why dont you prove to me C is Carbon but not cobalt? -
I know he came out with a list of questions that are so unorthodox.Originally posted by the Bear:i think it was Hilbert
But I don't exactly know what were his questions. -
Dun know.Originally posted by hisoka:i heard not proved yet isit?? I think my head will explode if I delve into that. -
haiz i step back le still want to play arh??Originally posted by Gasfene:Only 0*1=0 has a proof to it.
0 is defined as a real number.
it is defined to be so and needs no proving.
If you think it needs proving, why dont you prove to me C is Carbon but not cobalt?
oh well. i feel it needs proving, i never said i can prove it.
but because you wanted to make a case with it, you need to prove it to make your case. -
1+1=2 is proven already using the defintion of axoims. Axioms needs not be proved because it is defined to be so, not proven to be so.Originally posted by CoolMyth:Basically, the Greeks founded mathematical logic and their idea that maths is like a building. You need the initial building blocks to be able to construct the building. That's why we have definitions and axioms to start things out.
Mind you, I even read somewhere people are arguing why 1 + 1 = 2.....maths is indeed weird. -
Please enlighten me which axiom is it, thanks. I want to know.Originally posted by Gasfene:1+1=2 is proven already using the defintion of axoims. Axioms needs not be proved because it is defined to be so, not proven to be so. -
Yup. before i answer you, you answer my next question.Originally posted by hisoka:haiz i step back le still want to play arh??
oh well. i feel it needs proving, i never said i can prove it.
but because you wanted to make a case with it, you need to prove it to make your case.
prove to me why C is carbon, but why not cobalt? Reasonable proof dont say because carbon more abundant. -
Nobody appreciates my questionOriginally posted by CoolMyth:Nobody appreciates my algebra proof. -
Why are we talking chemistry here? You two trying to cultivate chemistry?Originally posted by Gasfene:Yup. before i answer you, you answer my next question.
prove to me why C is carbon, but why not cobalt? Reasonable proof dont say because carbon more abundant. -
Where?Originally posted by DriftingGuy:Nobody appreciates my question -
I have two maths questions
1) if 1/-0.000manyzeros00001 is a large -ve number and 1/0.000000manyzeros000001 is a large +ve number.. does 1/0 tends to positive or negative infinity??
2) What is 0/0?? can 0/0 be 1 since there is 1 part of "nothing" in 1 part of "nothing"??? -
you will note that your requiring me to answer you might negate your need to prove the definition. therefore the answer is refused.Originally posted by Gasfene:Yup. before i answer you, you answer my next question.
prove to me why C is carbon, but why not cobalt? Reasonable proof dont say because carbon more abundant.
i never claimed that i knew how to prove a definition. -
Oh yeah, the classic "weird" maths.
1/3 = 0.33333333333333333333333333.........
--> 1/3 x 3 = 0.33333333333333333333333333......... x 3
--> 3/3 = 0.99999999999999999999999999.........
--> 1 = 0.99999999999999999999999999.........? -
This one har? I don't know. Go ask your maths lecturer.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:I have two maths questions
1) if 1/-0.000manyzeros00001 is a large -ve number and 1/0.000000manyzeros000001 is a large +ve number.. does 1/0 tends to positive or negative infinity??
2) What is 0/0?? can 0/0 be 1 since there is 1 part of "nothing" in 1 part of "nothing"??? -
have you been keeping up with our argument for the 1st question? basically we agree that 1/0 is undefined.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:I have two maths questions
1) if 1/-0.000manyzeros00001 is a large -ve number and 1/0.000000manyzeros000001 is a large +ve number.. does 1/0 tends to positive or negative infinity??
2) What is 0/0?? can 0/0 be 1 since there is 1 part of "nothing" in 1 part of "nothing"???
0/0?? dunno le -
definition need not be proven. it is defined to be so. just like C is defined as Carbon. 0 is defined as a real number. Your biological mother is defined as someone who gives birth to you.Originally posted by hisoka:you will note that your requiring me to answer you might negate your need to prove the definition. therefore the answer is refused.
i never claimed that i knew how to prove a definition. -
I suddenly thought of Descartes.Originally posted by Gasfene:definition need not be proven. it is defined to be so. just like C is defined as Carbon. 0 is defined as a real number. Your biological mother is defined as someone who gives birth to you.
How can one believe that what one sees is real?
Sucky philosophers. -
thats not a prove. very well if you want to insist then please prove that a definition need not be proven.Originally posted by Gasfene:definition need not be proven. it is defined to be so. just like C is defined as Carbon. 0 is defined as a real number. Your biological mother is defined as someone who gives birth to you.