Melbourne or Sydney?
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Hi, I'm new to this forum. Would like to seek advice from those esp living in Aus. Me & hubby gotten PR, thinking of going to Aus 1 to 2 years later. But still deciding between Sydney or Melbourne. Any advice/experiences to share? ;p
Also, is it better to buy a property first before going over (seems like rental is very high & hard to find place?)
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Aus property re-sale only to local not to foreign citizen if not wrong
as good as no resale value
foreign can buy new property.
sydney living standard much faster
Melbourne living standard much slower
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Originally posted by zaxis:
Aus property re-sale only to local not to foreign citizen if not wrong
as good as no resale value
foreign can buy new property.
sydney living standard much faster
Melbourne living standard much slower
what the....?big cannon fairy?
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Originally posted by Beachgal:
Hi, I'm new to this forum. Would like to seek advice from those esp living in Aus. Me & hubby gotten PR, thinking of going to Aus 1 to 2 years later. But still deciding between Sydney or Melbourne. Any advice/experiences to share? ;p
Also, is it better to buy a property first before going over (seems like rental is very high & hard to find place?)
one man's meat is another's poison. best that you take a hols to both places and decide which city suits you best.i think it is better to rent first since you will need time to decide if the place/suburb is right for you. if you take a plunge in buying first and 6 months down the road feels that you don't like the area, it can be an expensive mistake. however, if you are dead sure, why not?
lastly, i think melbournians are alot more friendly and classy than sydneysiders. but of course i am bias ;-)
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Zaxis.Redust: Thanks for your feedback. =)
Personally I also prefer Melbourne. I've been to both places to tour,but quite some years back. But somehow I find touring a place & living in it can be quite different.
Any idea how's the job market in Australia now? And will they kind of "discriminate" against new foreigners in terms of recruitment in preference of locals?
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come with an open mind. if you do not have a skillset that is in demand, then it will do you good if you are not too selective.
i wldn't say the job market is rosy, but i won't know it well since i got transferred here, so i didn't really look for one.
if you like more hustle and bustle, maybe sydney fit the bill. weather shld be more predictable too.
but i am certain melbourne has its hotspots too; just that i have a family and do not dig those places anymore. my knees may buckle.
like i said, stay a week or 2 in both places, do up a list of like dislike and you can decide.
another factor is having friends and relatives nearby. i cannot stress enuf that having mates around to help you in the initial stage is very important. you can avoid costly mistakes and waste time. if you have none, then do as much homework first. there are many here in this forum who can help you too. i received such help when i made my move 1.5mths ago.
from my perspective, absolutely no regrets. life balance is great; my diet improved tremendously (not having instant access to prata, briyani, char koey teow is good for the waistline; but if you crave for them, there are many places you can go to satisfy your cravings), ppl are really frenly if you stay in the right suburb. i had a lot of doubts initially but with good planning, support from frens/loved ones and letting go of your unfounded worries, i think most will do well. it's early days for me but i think i fitted right in with minimum fuss.
take your time to convince yourself. if you are half hearted, you are likely to play the blame game if things don't turn out well.
the other lesson i learnt is not to look back or be tentative once you decided. i almost aborted my trip at the last moment becos of the onset of the economic crisis, and were worried that things will not work out. we thot maybe we shud sit out 6 months, but my spouse and i eventually decided to go ahead and with god's grace, things worked out well in the end.
good luck to you.
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I'm from Singapore and now living in Melbourne for more than10 years. Generally it's harder to get a job in Australia than Singapore especially if you are a new migrant. It also depends on your skills, education and working experience.
Most Australian companies prefer to hire locals because they think that foreigners may not fit into the Australian work culture and/or may be difficult to train and/or have different work ethics and language problems etc. I'm talking about foreigners in general, not only from Singapore but from other countries like China, Africa and the Middle East. The employers tend to lump foreigners together in terms of race and cannot tell the difference between a Singaporean or a mainland Chinese.
It also makes a big difference whether you are educated in Australia or not. If you graduate from an Australia university, you stand a much better chance of getting a job. I don't mean to sound discouraging, but it is better to come mentally and financially prepared.
I prefer living in Melbourne than Sydney. There are many reasons why Melboune was ranked the most livable city in the world by the Economist magazine in 2008. It is also 20-30% cheaper in terms of housing prices if you are looking to buy a house. The only major setback is the weather. Melbourne winters can get very chilly and cold.
All the best.
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Seems like Melbourne is the more liveable choice
.Simonmj: Cold weather will be a nice change fr the hot/humid weather in Singapore.
I suppose the main concern is jobs=money$. Understand for my line, it's not easy to find a job overseas,need to be present in Aus to look for 1. Ideally if my hubby can land a job first then we go over will be easier (financially). If not, it's a big risk if both of us quit our jobs to go over, living on our own finances, looking for jobs, esp in tis climate. Cost of living in Aus is high!
Reddust: You are right about the tentative part. But then again, I suppose you will only know if you made the right/suitable choice when you've settled down in the place for some time. I ain't got family/frenz in Melbourne, in Adelaide/Perth have tho. Also no Aussie degree
U mentioned right suburb? Just wondering, what kind of suburbs would be right? heheI did a bit of homework, and seems like St Kilda, Bourke St, Queen St would be nice. Near CBD, so can save on transport. Any ideas/recommendations on nice area to stay, preferably near public transport?
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Beachgal: If you don't mind me asking, what is your husband and your line of work? Certain jobs are easier to find than others. Many new migrants come without a job. The ones who have jobs are usually transferred by their companies or are based here. Others marry Aussies and move over with their spouses.
Migration is a big leap of faith. It's like starting with a clean slate and building your life again the way you want it. There are a lot of uncertainties and unknowns. It's also a big financial risk as you have to quit your jobs. One way to mitigate the risk is to let out your property in Singapore and live on the rental income while job searching in Australia. There other thing is to be open minded and flexible.
When I first arrived in Melbourne with my family and young kids, I did not work for two years. I went back to university, completed a masters course and manage to secure a job after that.
Starting a new life in a foreign country is never easy. It's a big challenge. If you can overcome the obstacles, you will discover a whole new world and lifestyle. For me, I'm glad I made the move. Life here is exciting and fulfilling.
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Actually, its not true that a person has to be in Aus, to find and secure a job.
And you are putting the chicks before the eggs. Your priority should be your hubby's or you getting a job, a car to move you and him to and fro jobs, then the consideration of a property that will be nearer to either your work places.
I've not been to Melbourne or Sydney, so I cant advise on the public transport there. But unless both of you is there to retire, you need to focus on deciding where your skills are needed and the chance of landing a job, before considering about buying a property.
Most people overseas I know, choose to buy a property after they've settled down in 2 or 3 years time.
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Originally posted by Beachgal:
Seems like Melbourne is the more liveable choice
.Simonmj: Cold weather will be a nice change fr the hot/humid weather in Singapore.
I suppose the main concern is jobs=money$. Understand for my line, it's not easy to find a job overseas,need to be present in Aus to look for 1. Ideally if my hubby can land a job first then we go over will be easier (financially). If not, it's a big risk if both of us quit our jobs to go over, living on our own finances, looking for jobs, esp in tis climate. Cost of living in Aus is high!
Reddust: You are right about the tentative part. But then again, I suppose you will only know if you made the right/suitable choice when you've settled down in the place for some time. I ain't got family/frenz in Melbourne, in Adelaide/Perth have tho. Also no Aussie degree
U mentioned right suburb? Just wondering, what kind of suburbs would be right? heheI did a bit of homework, and seems like St Kilda, Bourke St, Queen St would be nice. Near CBD, so can save on transport. Any ideas/recommendations on nice area to stay, preferably near public transport?
hi bg,`right suburb' wld be the one that fits your lifestyle. it could also include having the amenities you would use, close to your workplace, etc. do your homework thoroughly(as you are now). from the listing of ppl living in melbourne in this forum, pm those who's been more `seasoned' than me. they can be a wealth of info to you. simonmj offered a lot of his wisdom nuggets above. i am still a relative `newbie'.
i am not sure what is your financial status/situation, but most of the places you listed are rather pricey. to me, anything within a 20km radius from the city centre is manageable. owned transport is not expensive, so it is a non-issue, imo.
unpredictible weather can be a bummer. you get over the euphoria of the so-called nice cool/cold weather phase relatively quikly. i dislike it now that is can be 35 degrees one day, 20 the next. i always keep jackets for the family in the car just in case. such is the beauty of melbourne.
cost of living in australia is actually very manageable, imo. once you settle on a predictible life pattern, you can definitely manage. as in all other places, there will be things more expensive here, but you wl learn to find your ways around it pretty quickly. however, if you party every other day, singapore ain't cheap too.
i think if one of you can find work, it will be good enuf. unlike singapore, most needed double income to get by. i would even go as far as saying that if you can budget enuf to get by the first 2 years without work, you still would not go hungry as centrelink will help you to a certain extent. best of all, you won't have to be on TV to receive your monies like in singapore where the PAP politicize every cent they give out. here, it is a low key thing. everyone's privacy is respected. of cos, you want to avoid going on a dole if you can avoid it.
it is very important that you come with an open mind. don't get locked into your singapore mindset (whatever tt is). when i made of so-called `leap of faith', my job weren't secured. an internal transfer went awry becos of opex cut. i didn't change my mind even tho my company try to persuade me to delay the move for 6 months. my plan b were to start looking for work there even tho' i know it's an uphill task, or do volunteer work to get used to working environment there and it wl also faciltate networking, and even prepared to take menial jobs if i really needed it. i also joined business interest groups in melbourne to network and immerse myself into their way of working and life. however, i have also budgeted for a few years expenses so, i have some peace of mind when i decided on moving altho i wld have to compromise of the type of living i am used to in sgp. however, with gods grace, turns turns out well in the end.
to me, eastern melbourne is the place to be.
all the best.
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@vicouskitty74, yes it is possible to apply for job in Australia while in Singapore. These are exceptional cases when the job applicant's skill is in high demand or the employer already knows the background of the applicant e.g working with a competitor firm or a different branch of the same company.
It would be a rare case in Australia where a company look at the resume of a foreign applicant and sign up the person straight away. Most companies would like to interview the applicant first before making the offer. Normally the job hunting process will take weeks if not months and the job seeker will have to be based here if he/she wants to attend the job interviews.
@beachgal. You have to prepare yourself with a few scenarios. Ideally you or your husband secure a job first before coming over. But what happens if that does not happen. You will have to decide whether you still want to make the move. It's a big decision and only you and your husband can make the call. To help you make the choice, try to find out as much as you can from those who have live here on what is their lifestyle like. No country is perfect. There are always ups and the downs.
Take your time to decide. You have to ask yourself what you really want and your future expectations. Live a comfortable, predictable and secure life in Singapore or embark on a exciting, unpredictable and scary adventure and start a new life in Australia. Good luck.
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And dont buy a property yet. Decide where you can get jobs, rent a place, stablise down before buying any big ticket items.
If your rental does not come with furnitures, check out the Salvation Army place for cheap furnitures.
You can always buy the stuffs you really want for your purchased home later.
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Thanks all for yr feedback. Yeah, it's really a big decision.
Think having stayed in Singapore all my life, my mindset is quite atypical Singaporean too. Stay in Singapore, climb career ladder, slog like hell. If u have kids, worry abt what pri schl they get in etc, very predictable.
Personally, I'd like the experience of working/living overseas. I always wonder how it is working in other countries, whether work culture will be like in Singapore, at least for my line. Getting quite sick of the work culture here, for my line, always working OT. Also, nowadays, there's a lot of singles (jus some black sheep, no offence to any single here i hope ;p ) at work, so I can envisage how difficult it is to compete with those singles who can spend all their time @ work, which of coz most bosses would prefer.
Seems like Melbourne is a nice place, but think most jobs are in Sydney. My hubby in IT line, me in finance line. Think may be more possible for my hubby to get job without going over, harder for me.
Dun tink I'll be making the move so soon, but definitely would want to go over & stay for a while to experience working/living in a foreign country if either me or hubby can get a job. Financially, we are average, def not rich, otherwise, no need to tink so much. At the end of the day, money is still a primary concern whether which country u r in.
@Red-dust : The places i list are based on my very rough research via searching www.realestate.com.au. Was thinking if we rent, maybe more worth it to rent nearer town so can use public transport for work.
Btw, does getting the Skilled Independent visa = PR in Australia? Any special criteria to fulfil the PR? I understand you need to stay 2 out of 5 years in aus to maintain PR?
Meanwhile, happy CNY to all!
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
Actually, its not true that a person has to be in Aus, to find and secure a job.
And you are putting the chicks before the eggs. Your priority should be your hubby's or you getting a job, a car to move you and him to and fro jobs, then the consideration of a property that will be nearer to either your work places.
I've not been to Melbourne or Sydney, so I cant advise on the public transport there. But unless both of you is there to retire, you need to focus on deciding where your skills are needed and the chance of landing a job, before considering about buying a property.
Most people overseas I know, choose to buy a property after they've settled down in 2 or 3 years time.
Very good advices.Many people make serious mistakes by buying a property
first.In the current situation,it is very hard to sell in the foreseeable time.
2.If u just go for a job,u should also consider out of major cities.
Get the job,nvm the locations and pay, then u have Oz experience
then much easier to change job.
3.If u have kids ,then school is another factor .
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Hulo Beachgal,
Deciding to move to a new country when you've not experienced living abroad is a huge step! You have my admiration. :)
I'm currently working in Melbourne, and I got my PR status in Jan 09. I've been working since March 08 though, because once u apply for PR onshore, u are allowed to work unlimited hours, in any fields of work and in any state within Australia until your PR application has been approved/rejected.
I studied and lived abroad in the UK for 3 yrs before coming back to work in Singapore. I got bored quickly because my colleagues "worked in the same manner", "spoke the same things", "targetted for the same stuffs". Everything in Singapore, as we all know, is orderly, well-mannered and unfortunately, packaged the same for all of us. We go through the same education in schools, taught the same syllabus in college, and then slog to strive for one common thing at work - recognition, promotion etc. Yeah, why are there so many of us singles out there? Because we don't even have time to co-mingle and have a healthy work-home balance with the amount of OTs we put in, so that we "look productive".
I am a Singaporean at-heart, I have true blue Singaporean traits like being kiasu, kiasee and the rest of it, Singlish included! Even staying overseas for a prolonged period won't take away some fundamentals of being Singaporean because I was borned and bred there. But I think after tasting some great concepts like freedom to think and say what you want (responsibly, of course), and the nurturing environment for individualism, it became quite difficult for me to revert to the stifling way of life back home.
Eventually, I quit my job in the civil service and went to Perth to do a postgrad degree. Australia and the UK are vastly different countries, and I have learnt a lot from these western democracies. Some concepts I still don't embrace, some I readily accepted. But to make that final step of deciding to settle in Australia has been a little difficult. Are you ready to miss the significant occasions from people whom you have known all your life? I have already missed numerous weddings, births and deaths of people I should have been there for. I will always be a missing entity from commemorative photos and the likes. Discussions of jokes and events will be foreign to me, because I wasn't there.
But I am single, and I have the ability (or freedom) to pack and move, wherever I like, whenever I want. At that age, I decided I wanted to explore other horizons, and if all things fail, I can always return to Singapore. I still choose to have this alternative, so I will not be considering Australian citizenship for now.
I moved to Melbourne because I was a little bored of Perth, not because it was lacking. I just wanted a taste of something different, and Melbourne had many things to offer which I wanted - fashion, anime and a fusion of Victorian and Asian influences. I'm still very Singaporean, I'm a city girl but I also want the option of relaxation and taking things slow. Melbourne has been great because it's all classy, chic and uptown in the city, but you can drive out to the country within 1 hour and you're there with nature, the beach, the bush walks and the sun. It's been fantastic so far, and I really enjoy myself.
Work-wise, I've been pampered silly. Having worked more than 9 hours per day in Singapore, and coming back on the occasional Saturday, I realise the Management here is adamant about work-home balance. I get shooed off by the CEO if I'm still working past 5.30pm, and they allow compassionate leave for anything - grandparents' deaths, children requiring parents to take them home from childcare, or coming in late if you need to drop off your children at school in the mornings. Although I'm single, my married colleagues with children actually do enjoy far better benefits than I do, because of their family commitments. It's very encouraging to see that, because it allows me to think of settling down in a positive light, and colleagues DO come back to a job after 12 months of non-paid maternity leave. The rights of workers here are highly enforced with regulatory practices by independent authorities. We have none of the nonsense in which authorities are all under the whim of the same government. So, if you appeal your case to a Tribunal or an Ombudsman, you don't have to fear that it'll be rejected in favour of the authority that you're going up against.
Even if you're not politically active, it is a comfort to know that Opposition parties wield great powers, like stopping a Bill from passing through Parliament etc. I'm not saying that other governments are the best as compared to Singapore's, after all, no government is perfect. But still, they have the fundamental rule in place that they are accountable to the public.
I'm currently looking for a house to buy, after getting PR now. It's best to source out when you're in the country, and living temporarily in someplace. It may be seen as a waste of rent, but it'll be worse if you plonk your hard-earned money into a less-than-favourable property. It's a great time in the market to buy, but not to sell in Australia now, so be very careful! When I first came to Melbourne in 2007, I was very new and I didn't know the suburbs well. Also, as a Singaporean, there are many things to real property which we are not well-versed in, unless you're looking to buy an apartment instead of a house with land. Now that I know some friends (especially older adults who owned and built their houses), I can obtain advice and guidance especially on the suburbs, since location is very important. Also, I have my own preferences since I have already lived here for a year, and visited many suburbs to see my friends over this time.
Oh yes, my visa is the Skilled Independent Visa (Class 885). So, yes, it is for permanent residency. But there are also many subclasses for this type of visa, so you need to find out which ones suit you better! For my visa, I had to meet the 2 year criteria of staying in Australia before I could apply.
I got my current full-time job by applying through employment agencies for any kinds of work. Don't be fussy in the beginning! It may feel like you're "downgrading" initially, since I felt this way! But hey, I wasn't too fussy because I did need the money for my rent and food! And do your best in every job you're offered, be it temporary, part-time or casual. I managed to secure this current one because they decided to offer me a full-time position after I finished my 4 day contract with them! Yes, 4 days! I wasn't a PR holder then, just a Bridging Class Visa holder, awaiting for Immigration's decision on my PR application. Sometimes, companies just want to assess you first, so just be a good worker (I'm sure as Singaporeans, we overcompensate, haha!) and keep your nose out of trouble. You'll do fine. :)
Melbourne's been good because of the numerous Asian stuffs found here. Food-wise, it's expensive compared to Singapore, but it's reasonable for the salary I get here. I wear Korean/Japanese design clothes, eat at Jade Garden or Singapore Chomp Chomp for my char kway teow or prawn noodles craving, and drink bubble tea at lunchtime during work. I get my pirated Red Cliff DVD from a stall next to my workplace, and my church place is filled with all kinds of people from all over the world, Malaysians and Singaporeans included. Melbourne's full of life, it's vibrant and you get all the cheap Asian utilities and even hell money from Asian grocery stalls from everywhere. I'm not kiddin'! But walk down the CBD, and you also get a glimpse of Victorian churches, cathedrals and cute little alleyways. There's beautiful old houses in the suburbs, and pretty lawns and white picket fences - things you don't get back home.
Weather-wise, I love Melbourne much better than Perth. This is highly subjective and personal, because I prefer the cold. I loved London when I was there, I didn't care that it was wet and grey! Likewise, it really depends on you whether you'll love one place more than the other. I haven't been to Sydney (travelling up there next month!) so I can't make a comparison between the 2. However, these 2 suburbs are touted to have big Asian populations, which means you can have access to Asian things/food/items since they set up stalls/shops everywhere!
Hope this has helped you somewhat! :) -
Hi Matsuri, Thanks for sharing your personal experience. It's very informative.Your exp would sound like what I like to exp ha. Btw, may I know what profession you are in?
Talking abt weather, tot Melbourne generally has a cooler climate, except during summer, compared to Sydney. But the recent bushfires were scary. Wil start a new thread, like to hear fr u guys down under on the ground situation ;)
Meanwhile, have fun in Aus.
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I've lived in Melbourne for almost three years and I wouldn't advise buying property before you move over. You really have to rent first and start scouting around. It might take a while to find a place that you really like. Also, bear in mind that the suburb is very important. Basically, the 'safer' suburbs that are popular amongst Asians would be Doncaster, Glen Waverly, Boxhill, Kew, etc. There are certain suburbs which, IMO, are absolute no-no's because of the high crime rates and the demographics of the residents there.
In my place of work, I've come across quite a number of Sydneysiders who crossed over to Melbourne. I've also had Sydneysider friends visit me and the verdict is always that you can find more Malaysian / Singaporean food here; public transport is much cheaper; houses are cheaper.
I'm usually in Club 30 and the peeps there are always commenting on how I'm living over in Melbourne, but eating like a Singaporean!
This week alone, I've had Braised Duck Noodles, Minced Meat + Mushroom Mee Pok, Ice Kachang, Bubble Tea X 2, Big Meat Pau, Prawn Dumplings, Laksa Yong Tau Fu, Hainanese Chicken Rice, and Har Kow Hor Fun! I've also had ang moh food - Fried Chicken Fillet with sides from the staff canteen; chocolate eclair, Iced Choclate, Gelato... So if you're a die-hard foodie, you'll love it here in Melbourne! 
Club 30's toying with the idea of a Melbourne chapter. There's already Honeymouse, myself, and Bear's sis always arranging outings. We've gone to eat dim sum, picked all sorts of berries and apples, and just driven around to places like Doncaster, Geelong, etc.
Trying to get redDust and family interested. And if you do end up in Melbourne, you're welcome to join us! -
Hi,
In order to answer your question Doncaster or Glenwaverley?
May I suggest you go to www.waverleycity.com where you will find out everything about Melbourne's Waverley area.
Doncaster is mainly Italian, whereas Glenwaverley is more Asian
regards
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I prefer Queensland. More koalas there.
Mild winters. -
Originally posted by Rhonda:
.......
This week alone, I've had Braised Duck Noodles, Minced Meat + Mushroom Mee Pok, Ice Kachang, Bubble Tea X 2, Big Meat Pau, Prawn Dumplings, Laksa Yong Tau Fu, Hainanese Chicken Rice, and Har Kow Hor Fun! I've also had ang moh food - Fried Chicken Fillet with sides from the staff canteen; chocolate eclair, Iced Choclate, Gelato... So if you're a die-hard foodie, you'll love it here in Melbourne! ................................
Trying to get redDust and family interested.
makan? yes, definitely interested.the other day, drove to footscray for vietnamese. in a fortnite or so, likely to head to springvale for....er.....more vietnamese. my better half loves pho...
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I was in Melb for 2 weeks last month to put my daughter in LaTrobe U as well as to tour around enjoying the various sights. But I must say the portions of food served was more than double the size we are used to back in SG. The price is also expensive - about $9 for a bowl of fish-ball noodles.
Chinese restaurant food is slanted more towards the HK style what with the many Honkies around.
I especially like to take the trams..fun and not found in SG.
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rent a house first before u buy the property. And make sure u have a valid driving licence + GPS with Austrailain map. and buy a car first. These are things which are necessity.
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Melbourne will be a wiser choice than sydney. Plus Melbourne has a higher number of famous Universities and schools for yr children.
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Originally posted by Dorlen2:
Hi,
In order to answer your question Doncaster or Glenwaverley?
May I suggest you go to www.waverleycity.com where you will find out everything about Melbourne's Waverley area.
Doncaster is mainly Italian, whereas Glenwaverley is more Asian
regards
Glenwaverly i think has many singaporeans and malaysians there. I seldom go there as i stay in a far off place.