What is the First Noble Truth of Suffering?
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Buddha: "Now this, monks, is the noble truth of stress:[1] Birth is stressful, aging is stressful, death is stressful; sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair are stressful; association with the unbeloved is stressful, separation from the loved is stressful, not getting what is wanted is stressful. In short, the five clinging-aggregates are stressful.
Namdrol: The suffering the Buddha was talking about was mental and physical disease and pain i.e. illness, aging and death.
No one can refute that illness is suffering, aging is suffering and death is suffering. That is was the truth of suffering is actually about -- not some rarified middle Indian abhidharma redefinition......
Namdrol: At the level of the 4NT, belief does not ever need to enter into it. This is the beauty of the Hīnay�na approach -- one never needs to beleive anything. One can decide to experiment with the 4NT as a hypothesis and see if it is correct.
Mah�y�na and other forms of Buddhism (apart from Dzogchen) require more of a metaphysical commitment from the get go.Tobes: I think even on the most basic level, a certain amount of belief is required: to experiment with any degree of efficacy, one also has to assume that there is something true or meaningful in the 4NT's.
Namdrol wrote: No, suffering is self-evident.
Tobes wrote: It's not at all. Suffering is not a good translation for duhkah - because duhkah pertains to why conditioned phenomena are unsatisfactory.
It seems clear to me that most people take it as self-evident that conditioned phenomena are satisfactory. That's why everyone is out driving bmw's, getting pissed, eating chocolate and shagging.Namdrol: In the contrary, suffering is a perfectly adequate translation for dukkha. Suffering is self-evident because all actions in which sentient beings engage is aimed at avoiding suffering, for example, driving beamers, getting pissed, eating choclate and shagging.
Kirtu: Only gross personal suffering is evident for everyone.
Namdrol: That is sufficient.tobes wrote:But unless you're presupposing a Buddhist framework, there is no necessity to define these pursuits in the negation. Someone like Bentham would just say: these people are looking for and finding pleasure, and gaining tangible and quantifiable satisfaction from it.
Namdrol wrote: Pleasure is defined by misery, as satisfaction is defined by dissatisfaction.
tobes wrote: The avoidance of suffering would be refraining from visiting your mother-in-law or walking into a fire.
Namdrol wrote: Yes.
tobes wrote: So you take the axiomatic Buddhist definition of duhkah - that conditioned pleasure is in reality duhkah because it is conditioned - as a self-evident truth, when really it is a truth claim which stands contrary to many other truth claims.
Namdrol wrote: The suffering the Buddha was talking about was mental and physical disease and pain i.e. illness, aging and death.
No one can refute that illness is suffering, aging is suffering and death is suffering. That is was the truth of suffering is actually about -- not some rarified middle Indian abhidharma redefinition.tobes wrote: I think I mentioned this responding to you in another thread: the state of duhkah gains its formal definition only in relationship to an enduring state of satisfaction (i.e. nirvana). If there was no such enduring satisfaction, then there is no real basis to define intransient bliss as duhkah.
Namdrol wrote: Bliss in Buddhism is a strictly negative definition i.e. it is the absence of suffering just as health is defined as the absence of illness.
In fact that notion of dukkha and the notion of roga (disease) are intimately related.tobes wrote: I take your points Namdrol. Definitely in the Pali sutta's duhkah is explicitly cached out as -literally - the dis-ease of having aggregates etc.
I have been thinking about it more metaphysically, from an Abhidharmic and Madhyamakan point of view. I suppose there are some interesting distinctions to be made in this respect.
Namdrol wrote: The Buddha's approach regarding the 4NT was to introduce an irrefutable experiential fact: everywhere you look there is suffering, because everything and everyone ages, then sickens, then dies. The point is that this is an experiential fact no needs guess at it -- everyone knows what suffering means. -
Volume 4 No 1
Feature
The Eight Distresses
By Venerable Shen-Kai
LIFE IS never always a bed of roses for many of us. The occasional happiness that we experience is very often temporary and transient. Human beings face eight distress or sufferings in our lifetime on earth. The root of our sufferings lies in our physical make-up.
1 The Distress of Birth
Life begins in the womb of the mother. While in the womb, the foetus is surrounded by darkness and its movement is restricted. The pregnant mother-to-be, besides having to cope with hormonal changes, will also experience increasing difficulty in mobility from an enlarging belly, nausea and other discomfort, and
sometimes poor appetite. These sufferings culminate in the pain that the mother has to endure in the birth process. The foetus, for its part, has to leave the cosy and warm confine of its mother’s stomach, and encounter an unaccustomed rush of cold air into its lungs. The cry of the new-born baby attests to its protest of its uncomfortable introduction to the world, and is the beginning of its journey to the many sufferings in this life.
2 The Distress of the Five Skandhas
The Five Skandhas referred to in Buddhist literature relate to the five aggregates or components of an intelligent being, viz. rupa, a physical form relating to the five sensory organs (eyes, nose, ear, tongue, and body); vedana, the functioning of the mind relating to feelings; sanjna, the functioning of the mind relating to distinguishing or discerning; samskara, the functioning of the mind with regards to decision or volition; and vijnana, the mental faculty in regard to cognition and consciousness. These aggregates of form, feeling, perception, volition and consciousness are usually latent, but once ignited, cause a mixture of agony and misery, creating disillusionment with life.
3 The Distress of Attachment
Human beings tend to develop strong attachments to their loved ones, as well as to things material. When we lose any of these, we often grieve, worry or become depressed.
4 The Distress of Hate or Anger
Feelings of anger or hate commonly occur in our interpersonal relations. These could arise out of pride, prejudice or envy. Any encounter with the people towards whom our anger or hate is directed invariably brings distress, agony and misery.
5 The Distress of Unfulfilled Desires
Many agree that it is human nature to ceaselessly crave for more. This craving or greed, however, causes frustration and sufferings when our cravings are not met or our desires unfulfilled. Especially, if we carry our greed to an unlawful extent, and when caught, have to experience mental as well as physical punishment.
6 The Distress of Illness
Chinese medical science categorises human bodily functions into four elements - earth, water, fire and wind. Muscles, bones, skin, flesh, organs, arteries and veins, fingernails and hair form the earth element. Blood, urine, sweat, tears and other body fluids are the water element. Body temperature and energy are the fire element. The movement of air through our breath constitutes the wind element. If these elements are not in equilibrium, illness results.
7 The Distress of Ageing
As we approach old age, our health generally deteriorates. Weak limbs, grey hairs, failing eyesight, loose teeth and dimming memory are some of the common problems associated with old age. A sense of helplessness and hopelessness frequently creeps in, and the old and infirm tend to worry and fret.
8 The Distress of Death
All human beings will eventually face death, for it is certain. It is a matter of timing. Human beings are afraid of death because of strong attachment to worldly things; a desire for continued existence; and ignorance of the essence of life or living. Death then comes with a lot of mental suffering. If one has lived a life filled with greed or hate, the negative karma thus accumulated will lead to extreme suffering on one’s deathbed.
In short, life is suffering. From birth to death, we are constantly submerged in the sea of suffering. Only when we have realised the nature of suffering and resolve to free ourselves by cultivating our inner sentient being according to Buddha’s compassionate teachings will we be able to attain peace, dignity and freedom in our transient life.
© Copyright 2002.Jen Chen Buddhism Centre -
AN 10.65 PTS: A v 120
Pathama Sukha Sutta: First Discourse on the Pleasant
translated from the Pali by K. Nizamis
At one time, the Venerable S�riputta was dwelling near the small village of N�laka in Magadha. And then, there where Venerable S�riputta was, there S�maṇ�ak�ni, the wanderer, approached. Having approached, he exchanged greetings with the Venerable S�riputta. Having exchanged greetings, and courteous talk having passed between them, he sat to one side. Having sat to one side, S�maṇ�ak�ni, the wanderer, said this to Venerable S�riputta:
"Now, what, friend S�riputta, is the pleasant, and what is the painful?"
"Rebirth, friend, is painful; non-rebirth is pleasant. When, friend, there is rebirth, this pain is to be expected: cold and heat, hunger and thirst, excrement and urine, contact with fire, contact with punishment, contact with weapons, and anger caused by meeting and associating with relatives and friends. When, friend, there is rebirth, this pain is to be expected.
"When, friend, there is no rebirth, this pleasantness is to be expected: neither cold nor heat, neither hunger nor thirst, neither excrement nor urine, neither contact with fire, nor contact with punishment, nor contact with weapons, and no anger caused by meeting and associating with relatives and friends. When, friend, there is no rebirth, this pleasantness is to be expected." -
Samsara is truly suffering, please practice hard! And it's not just I who said so.
Garab Dorje Rinpoche said that, "Even with 5 Wisdoms, the Buddha was unable to find happiness in Samsara."
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Even more gruesome examples:
SN 15.13
PTS: S ii 187
CDB i 658
Timsa Sutta: Thirty
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 2009–2012
Now on that occasion the Blessed One was dwelling in Rajagaha, in the Bamboo Grove. Then thirty monks from Pava — all wilderness dwellers, all alms-goers, all triple-robe wearers, all still with fetters — went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side.
Then the thought occurred to the Blessed One, "These thirty monks from Pava... are all still with fetters. What if I were to teach them the Dhamma in such a way that in this very sitting their minds, through lack of clinging, would be released from fermentations?"
So he addressed the monks: "Monks."
"Yes, lord," the monks responded.
The Blessed One said, "From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. What do you think, monks? Which is greater, the blood you have shed from having your heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, or the water in the four great oceans?"
"As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the blood we have shed from having our heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, not the water in the four great oceans."
"Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me.
"This is the greater: the blood you have shed from having your heads cut off while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time, not the water in the four great oceans.
"The blood you have shed when, being cows, you had your cow-heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.
"The blood you have shed when, being water buffaloes, you had your water buffalo-heads cut off... when, being rams, you had your ram-heads cut off... when, being goats, you had your goat-heads cut off... when, being deer, you had your deer-heads cut off... when, being chickens, you had your chicken-heads cut off... when, being pigs, you had your pig-heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.
"The blood you have shed when, arrested as thieves plundering villages, you had your heads cut off... when, arrested as highway thieves, you had your heads cut off... when, arrested as adulterers, you had your heads cut off: Long has this been greater than the water in the four great oceans.
"Why is that? From an inconceivable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabrications, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released."
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted in the Blessed One's words. And while this explanation was being given, the minds of the thirty monks from Pava — through lack of clinging — were released from fermentations.
See also: SN 15.3.Here's another one:
At Savatthi. There the Blessed One said: "From an inconstruable (sic) beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. What do you think, monks: Which is greater, the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — or the water in the four great oceans?"
"As we understand the Dhamma taught to us by the Blessed One, this is the greater: the tears we have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans."
"Excellent, monks. Excellent. It is excellent that you thus understand the Dhamma taught by me.
"This is the greater: the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans.
"Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a mother. The tears you have shed over the death of a mother while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans.
"Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a father... the death of a brother... the death of a sister... the death of a son... the death of a daughter... loss with regard to relatives... loss with regard to wealth... loss with regard to disease. The tears you have shed over loss with regard to disease while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans. "Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released." -
Understand that there is such thing as rebirth, and liberation from rebirth.
Otherwise there will not be Buddhism in the first place. It is for the liberation of 'self-evident suffering' of birth, ageing, etc.... it is for the cessation of craving (nirvana), the craving which leads to the making of karma for further becoming (rebirth).
Had there been no rebirth, there will be no Buddhas to teach Dharma.
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Everytime we feel in very great physical and mental pain, in great sickness, we feel like "oh my god! life is impermanent, life is full of suffering, I better buck up my practice to escape samsara!" Have you ever had such feelings? I certainly had, especially during the times when I actually thought I could die (due to illness when I almost went unconscious).
Yet the tragic thing is that we forget a few days later! That is the situation of samsara!
The fact that we have been killed countless times that our blood can fill the entire ocean, and yet we forget about it the next life! This is the tragic situation of samsara!
Samsara is just like this picture:
.... and so the beginningless cycle of samsara goes on and on, again.
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I hope this thread can instill the right view of the noble truth of suffering, the right intention of renunciation, a sense of urgency for practice.
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Having said this much, I can still anticipate those who wish to challenge the first noble truth.
This is like Mara asking, "What's wrong with Birth anyway? Why not just enjoy sensual pleasures?"
SN 5.6
PTS: S i 132
CDB i 226
Cala Sutta: Cala
translated from the Pali by
Bhikkhu Bodhi
© 1997–2012
Alternate translation: Thanissaro
Setting at Savatthi. Then, in the morning, the bhikkhuni Cala dressed... she sat down at the foot of a tree for the day's abiding.
Then Mara the Evil One approached the bhikkhuni Cala and said to her: "What don't you approve of, bhikkhuni?"
"I don't approve of birth, friend."
[Mara:]
Why don't you approve of birth? Once born, one enjoys sensual pleasures. Who now has persuaded you of this: 'Bhikkhuni, don't approve of birth'?
[Cala:]
For one who is born there is death; Once born, one encounters sufferings — Bondage, murder, affliction — Hence one shouldn't approve of birth. The Buddha has taught the Dhamma, The transcendence of birth; For the abandoning of all suffering He has settled me in the truth. [133] As to those beings who fare amidst form, And those who abide in the formless — Not having understood cessation, They come again to re-becoming.
Then Mara the Evil One, realizing, "The bhikkhuni Cala knows me," sad and disappointed, disappeared right there.