This should clarify things a bit. Thanks for sharing.
In a paradoxical manner, realised Buddhist practitioners do understand why and know how the idea of God (and even Soul) come about... Along their way on the realisation path, they would have come across transcendental experiences that could easily be identified as God (and even Soul)... BUT in order to move towards deeper level of realisations ... they will have to go beyond these states.
Just a sharing about my personal experience of what the experience of God and Soul are. Certainly nothing definitive .
God experience - This can either be
1. the I AM/Eternal witness experience with no thoughts or
2. the luminosity experience when mind deconstruct. When luminosity is experienced without the understanding/realisation of non-duality, this bright 'light' will be labelled as God. The God experience is the ultimate subject-object division experience.
Soul experience - surprisingly the soul experience is more subtle to experience that the God experience. Haha. This state should be the same as Alaya consciousness.
Soul experience is the subtlest experience where a mental formation is still being registered. It is experienced when the physical mind level activity is suspended. This state is a formless state that have registered all past life experiences of a Being. Because it retained all the past life experiences of a Being... it will be exalted when compared with the physical (gross) mental state. However, an important point to note is that this formless subtle state DO NOT necessarily understand its own empty and no-self nature. To me, the 'soul' state is the original point of cyclical transmigration. If the non-dual and emptiness nature is recognised at this level/state, the 'Being' will be enlightened. If this state is ignorant of its own non-dual and empty nature, it will move into dualistic action believing in the projections. Not written in Buddhist teaching is that the Soul state (in my experience) actually holds the intention of what it attempts to achieve in a particular lifetime. I have personally experienced the 'purpose' of incarnation... however as i have mentioned.. because this formless level of consciousness may not necessarily realise its non-dual and emptiness nature .. it will 'seek action' as a way to resolve what is being perceived as karmic issues.... resulting in transmigration.
The dream state roughly seats between this formless 'soul' state' and physical gross mental state.
For New age guys that talks about recieving guidance from the Soul, many do not actually experience this 'soul' state directly. Rather, they experience projected images and feelings. This so-call 'soul' state is extremely subtle and cannot be experienced when gross mental formations ( such as language and images) are present.
Ultimately... both 'God' and 'soul' experiences are not entities/selfs and are non-dual and empty.
Note: I will not respond to anyone who dispute these understandings unless they themselve have pass beyond non-dual and emptiness phases.
I think most religion in the world practise, Meditation in one way or another. Buddhist meditate by watching our breathe or chanting a mantra. Christian meditate by reflecting on God's words or names. As Steven Convey, has said, "Begin with a end in mind." The ultimate purpose of each religion varies at the end. To a Buddhist, it is about developing Concentration and ultimately Wisdom. To a Christian, it is to let go of oneself and being in one with God.
Hence, meditation is not an exclusive method developed by Buddha. It is a method used by various non Buddhist ascetic in his time. However, he learn it and make further improvement on it to recommending the middle path and eightfold path. That's make, the whole lot difference in term of the Buddhist and non Buddhist goals and objectives.
However, the great things is people like Thomas Merton, who discover the validity of meditation experience and yet choose to continue his calling as a Catholic monk. He refine it and call it contemplative prayer. It goes to show that Meditation experience knows no bound.
Perhaps this is also a form of skillful mean.
Originally posted by simpo_:This should clarify things a bit. Thanks for sharing.
In a paradoxical manner, realised Buddhist practitioners do understand why and know how the idea of God (and even Soul) come about... Along their way on the realisation path, they would have come across transcendental experiences that could easily be identified as God (and even Soul)... BUT in order to move towards deeper level of realisations ... they will have to go beyond these states.
Just a sharing about my personal experience of what the experience of God and Soul are. Certainly nothing definitive .
God experience - This can either be
1. the I AM/Eternal witness experience with no thoughts or
2. the luminosity experience when mind deconstruct. When luminosity is experienced without the understanding/realisation of non-duality, this bright 'light' will be labelled as God. The God experience is the ultimate subject-object division experience.
Soul experience - surprisingly the soul experience is more subtle to experience that the God experience. Haha. This state should be the same as Alaya consciousness.
Soul experience is the subtlest experience where a mental formation is still being registered. It is experienced when the physical mind level activity is suspended. This state is a formless state that have registered all past life experiences of a Being. Because it retained all the past life experiences of a Being... it will be exalted when compared with the physical (gross) mental state. However, an important point to note is that this formless subtle state DO not necessarily understand its own empty and no-self nature. To me, the 'soul' state is the original point of cyclical transmigration. If the non-dual and emptiness nature is recognised at this level/state, the 'Being' will be enlightened. If this state is ignorant of its own non-dual and empty nature, it will move into dualistic action believing in the projections. Not written in Buddhist teaching is that the Soul state (in my experience) actually holds the intention of what it attempts to achieve in a particular lifetime. I have personally experienced the 'purpose' of incarnation... however as i have mentioned.. because this formless level of consciousness may not necessarily realise its non-dual and emptiness nature .. it will 'seek action' as a way to resolve what is being perceived as karmic issues.... resulting in transmigration.
The dream state roughly seats between this formless 'soul' state' and physical gross mental state.
For New age guys that takes about recieving guidance from the Soul, many do not actually experience this state directly. Rather, they experience projected images and feelings. This so-call 'soul' state is extremely subtle and cannot be experienced when gross mental formations ( such as language and images) are present.
Ultimately... both 'God' and 'soul' experiences are not entities/selfs and are non-dual and empty.
Note: I will not respond to anyone who dispute these understandings unless they themselve have pass beyond non-dual and emptiness phases.
Thanks, this explains so many things for me... i had the notion before that God/Soul/Alaya/I-Amness are the same thing. Also,
it will 'seek action' as a way to resolve what is being perceived as karmic issues.... resulting in transmigration.
Very nicely put...
Originally posted by Dharmadhatu:Thanks, this explains so many things for me... i had the notion before that God/Soul/Alaya/I-Amness are the same thing. Also,
it will 'seek action' as a way to resolve what is being perceived as karmic issues.... resulting in transmigration.
Very nicely put...
Hi Dharmadhatu and All,
Just want to add something...
IMO, no-self can still be realised without firstly accessing the alaya/store-house/'soul' consciousness. This alaya/store-house/'soul' can only be accessed in very deep meditation.
So... don't have to worry whether must alaya/store-house consciousness be reached first before realising no-self. However, when alaya/store-house consciousness is finally reached... one can very very easily be fooled to think that this is the True self/Higher self of a Being. ..
Must see through it.. realise it non-dual, no-self and emptiness nature.... or else our understanding will be just like that of any new age, etc level of understanding which is incomplete.
Hi Simpo,
Yes, i am aware of that. Thanks for your clarification. I am trying push past the limits of my preconceptions of reality to understand Anatta.
I hope that all other forummers read this thread and give their best shot for liberating realisations too.