Which tradition to follow?
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Hey everyone, I've been at what I jokingly refer to as the international buddhist buffet table for 2 plus years now. Read some books from different traditions, took the precepts under a theravadin monk, gone to dharma/dhamma talks... and is still trying to keep to a regular (samatha) meditation schedule.
But nothing hardcore yet. No retreats, hardly any intense practice that will result in actual insight. While I don't plan to exclude any tradition from my studies, I do plan to stop just dabbling like a buffet diner and get down to really working towards enlightenment, which pretty much requires you to have serious practice in a tradition first.
The problem now, is that while I have an idea what tradition I wouldn't follow (at least, at this point in time), I'm equally attracted to both chan/zen and theravada. Theravada was what got me interested in buddhism once again, given it's very down to earth teachings (personal view. brothers and sisters from other traditions, please don't get offended), but perhaps because of my conditioning when I was young, chan draws my interest very much as well.
So my question to everyone here is, what advice do you have for me? Is there any way that can help determine what kind of practice I might be better suited for?
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In the end, it has to do with what you feel resonates with you... nobody can give you a straight answer.
If Buddha were here, there is no such thing as traditionS. Now there are so many traditions, and none are more valid than another because there is no central authority who decides things (there is no such thing as a Buddhist Pope), you just have to discern yourself and follow what you feel close to heart.
I would advice my own kind of practice (http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com), because that is what worked for me, but I cannot say it will resonate with others. I think all authentic teachers will do the same - recommend their own practice but do not say theirs is the only one that works or that it will suit everyone. You just have to find things out yourself.
Personally, Zen's direct approach to realizing buddha-nature strikes close to heart, but I don't consider myself a Zen Buddhist.
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Exploration is what may avail u of ... - not an ideology. Ideology means one has made one's summary of life. And when the latter can be summed up, it is not worth living.
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Oops, i have to admit I am confused with Buddhism having many traditions, somehow affect my decision to go ahead with Buddhism. KIV. Sounds more complicated than the denominations in Christianity.
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
Oops, i have to admit I am confused with Buddhism having many traditions, somehow affect my decision to go ahead with Buddhism. KIV. Sounds more complicated than the denominations in Christianity.
But having different traditions is not a problem in Buddhism.
We say there are 84000 dharma doors to awakening. Means there are uncountable numbers of ways to attain enlightenment.
This is a good thing, not a bad thing. You just have to find what resonates with you.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
But having different traditions is not a problem in Buddhism.
We say there are 84000 dharma doors to awakening. Means there are uncountable numbers of ways to attain enlightenment.
This is a good thing, not a bad thing. You just have to find what resonates with you.
I think i am in a sotong state now.
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
I think i am in a sotong state now.
Sotong got 8 tentacles.
Just nice for learning the 8 fold path.
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
I think i am in a sotong state now.
Choose something you resonate with, then focus on that. 84000 dharma doors doesn't mean you need to learn everything. It just means you need to choose one that works for you.
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Originally posted by BanguIzai:
Sotong got 8 tentacles.
Just nice for learning the 8 fold path.
sotong refers to the state of mind not physically look like sotong. Pelajar Bangulza
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
sotong refers to the state of mind not physically look like sotong. Pelajar Bangulza
Pengawal Winso
I know. He He.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Choose something you resonate with, then focus on that. 84000 dharma doors doesn't mean you need to learn everything. It just means you need to choose one that works for you.
I have many things on my mind , sort them out first. Meanwhile, I am still exposing myself to learning more about Buddhism. i also don't want to rush into it yet like what I did to christianity.
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Jui,
Personally, I would prefer to choose based on a method that resonates, rather than to choose purely based on tradition.
Since you say you've been at the international buffet table for some time, you must have had a chance to do some sampling. What has worked for you? Which fits in better with your lifestyle?
AEN was saying above that he likes the Zen direct approach. But for me, I prefer a gradual approach because I'm the type that tends to lift the lid of the kettle to check if the water is boiling. A gradual approach will yield me experiences in small increments until stabilisation of experience. Building up a great ball of doubt in the context of working with koans/huatous somehow doesn't sit well with my temperament.
I've also read somewhere that people with tendency towards discursive thinking will favour direct inquiry and those who are more intuitive will favour a sitting practice like shikantaza. I chose to join a short-term Zen meditation class because I wanted to properly learn shikantaza - having tried it out a little on my own at home - and that was even before I'd read about the above criteria for choosing a Zen method.
I think resonance does matter. You will know for yourself what suits you.
Only my 2 cents... /\
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There is no restriction of attending teachings from different traditions. It does not mean that you practise Theravada tradition, cannot attend Zen teaching. In fact, I don't think there are contradictions at all because the teachings teaches the same thing : The Four Noble Truth and the Noble Eightfold Path. I have personally explored different traditions before eventually settle down on a path that resonate best with oneself. You will know when it comes to you. Just have faith in the Triple Gems. Perhaps perhaps it is time for you to attend some retreat! :)
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Thank you all for your replies!
Metta with Mindfulness: Yes I'm definitely not going to be exclusively follow one tradition.Yes, I'll be seeing if I can attend some retreat in 2012. Now that I've read my post a few times, I realised I wasn't very clear on my topic. What I really should have asked was, for my main practice, which tradition's should I follow. Your, and everyone's advice is true though, no one can do it for me.
realization: Thanks for the post about your choice of practice, it's interesting that you mentioned discursive thoughts, because the desire to have some form of control over stopping them was what got me re-accquaintant with buddhism. Hmm...
Also, not sure if this is relevant, but here's a list of practices I've done/ am doing, and my "results". Any advice, guidance, admonishments very welcome:
Shamatha: Mainly just counting the breath. 150 breaths a day before sleep, takes about 1/2 hour. Still finding it hard to concentrate on the breath without counting, although any state only occur when I don't count and just concentrate on the breath.
Mantras/Chanting: Gets into concentration decently enough, but I believe doing this wouldn't actually lead to any realisation right? Strange side effect is that my vision started to grey out when I was chanting.Koans: Haven't managed to develop that great doubt and persistence yet. "Who am I?" yields "I am what is occuring now". "What is my original face before my parents were born" yields... nothing. As in, can't even answer.
Actual observing: This is what I do the most nowadays. Whenever I get a chance to not have to interact with people I'll just observe my sensations. Currently, just realised more and more that the body really is in an auto-pilot mode of sorts. I can only observe them after they happen, even thoughts of wanting to do a certain action, the thought arises, only then can I observe it arising. There's no "I'm going to think of this" without that volition already having risen.
Also, after pondering about my statement in an earlier post about there's still an "inside/outside" feel of sensation, I tried to pinpoint what this "inside/outside" actually means and couldn't find anything. There was only that series of sensation after all. But my big fear is, that I'm just stuck in wordplay, since I don't exactly feel that it's an insight, just a bunch of doubts.
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Koans: Haven't managed to develop that great doubt and persistence yet. "Who am I?" yields "I am what is occuring now". "What is my original face before my parents were born" yields... nothing. As in, can't even answer.
If you want to practice this, do read up my discussion on self-inquiry in the section dedicated to that in
AEN's E-Journal
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Any traditions are pointing to zen and zen is no self without the concept of no self. As buddhism is non-dualism, you may read up on these recommended sutra, it is also a form of practice as well, 6th Platform Sutra, Pureland sutra and Meitreya Sutra on "the 3 assembly of Liberation". You may simultaneously meditate on Om Mani Padme Hum on behalf of all suffering beings (well - thanks :D).
Om Mani Padme Hum is the Goddess of Mercy which in related to Pureland specially merciful for Jambudvipa beings. It is also the reward body as tacitly mentioned in the platform sutra. Occasionally, you may meditate on Buddha Name as prescribed in theravada, mahayana and vajrayana tantra or esoteric. As for the choice of self-power and buddha power, you have to choose yourself. And if you having problem in your choice because all dharma masters recommendation is so deliciously satisfying, you have to ask here for help in å� 察善æ�¶ä¸šæŠ¥ç»�. And if you do not know how to apply it, you may learn for this : http://www.jzfjw.cn/move/vodhtml/14/3292.html - 《å� 察善æ�¶ä¸šæŠ¥ç»�》梦å�‚è€�和尚[全集].
May you realize bodhi and attain buddhahood spontaneously for the wellness of all.
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Muse over this This is meant for those who are on the journey of ’’discovering’’/ ’’recognising’’ the source of one’s creation (awakening,nirvana or so on so forth - which are merely labelsn concepts). This entails being a lion, being courageous, willingness to question and examining of beliefs and being open to finding out. This entails seeing, one cannot conclude n how to conclude that which is an existential happening (not to be confused with dictionary meaning). It is never meant for followers. Following entails being sheep, cos those who follow without questionig or exploring are simply too weak-minded and there is no journeying at all, simply parroting and quoting …. This simply entails looking for … and one can only look for something already concluded, definitions, concepts and ... and look for it in something to reaffirm and repeat …. Who is being the ’’lion’’ or who is being the ’’sheep’’ – one’s intuitve heart never lies. Ps - when one gets offended or feels threatend about one's beliefs/traditions, then jolly well it is simply identifying with ... to prop oneself up. One's sense of self is threatened and hence the straw-cluthcing stance of being defensive.
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@Fugazzi: unfortunately without the right view, no matter how much you practice and investigate, you will fail to realize the profound meaning of dharma. This is why faith and right view is important. The buddha's dharma is truly profound - its wisdom cannot be found outside buddhist teachings - and without proper understanding, we cannot go far in understanding it.
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all isms lead nowhere excepting collecting knowledge and how can one find what is truth, one cannot find it , one can expereince it and of course the latter when it is accumulated it is no longer truth but simply becomes knowledge. When i think of myself as a buddhist, as a Hindu or … i cease to think. Why do i say that ? cos i am simply will latch onto scriptures and ... to affirm my thinking. Even when i do think or seek or look for ... all i am going to to do is look for something in the scriptures, sutras to re-affirm. This stance belies fear and the fear is that of one could be wrong, one's belief may not hold up to reality. Why? cos my sense of self is propped up by my leaning on isms n .... and the moment one challenges it or questions it – my sense of self is threatened. I notice this amongst most believers, when one is an atheist one is still belieiving, when one is not being an atheist one still believes. The human mind can only be sustained when something is certain. One can find a Buddhist mind, One can find a Christian mind, can one find a buddhsit heart? can one find a Christian heart. Till the latter is understood, acknowledged one is simply stuck. PS - To assume that truth can be only be found via of Buddha 's ... is to cancel out the wisdom of others. Stupidity is to assume that there is only Buddhsim wisdom, Christian wisdom or Hindu wisdom. Like i mentioned before, wisdom, truth transcends all isms
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@fugazzi: I have studied other religions before, and have even practiced their methods before. It is not due to blind faith that I made the statement that Buddhism is unique. Buddhism is by far the only religion that teachers dependent origination, anatta (no self) and emptiness - without which there cannot be liberation. I speak of this from my personal experience and progress of insight. Because you do not understand the importance of right view, you will not be able to appreciate the importance of Buddha's teachings. As I wrote before: ...Also, a lot of people think 'The Right View is No View' which is true since all metaphysical views pertain to false views of existence and non-existence, however the way they go about resolving the problem is by 'forgetting all concepts'. They think that by suspending all beliefs, by forgetting all concepts and sitting quietly in a state of pure awareness, somehow merely by that, they can overcome false views. Let me offer something for you think about: every day we go into a state of deep sleep where all our beliefs, concepts, views, thoughts are temporarily suspended. But when we wake up, what happens? We are as ignorant as ever. Our framework of viewing self and reality is still the same. We still experience the same problems, the same sufferings, the same afflictions. This analogy should clearly show you that sustaining a state of non-conceptuality or mastering a state of 'forgetting the self' is not going to result in a fundamental change or transformation or effortless seeing, unless true wisdom and insight arises. I shall offer two more analogies which are related: a person deluded as to see a rope as a snake, will live in fear, trying to tame the snake, trying to get rid of the snake, escape from the snake. Maybe he managed a way to distant himself from the snake, yet the belief that the snake is still there is nevertheless going to haunt him. Even if he managed to master the state of forgetting the snake, he is nonetheless in a state of delusion. He has not seen as it truly is: the snake is simply a rope. In another analogy, the child believes in the existence of santa claus and awaits eagerly for arrival of his presents on Christmas day. One day the parents decide that it's time the child be told the truth about santa claus. To do this, beating the hell out of the child is not going to work. You simply need to tell the child that santa claus doesn't truly exist. In these analogies, I try to showcase how trying to deal with the problem of false views through means of 'forgetting conceptuality, forgetting the self' is as useless or deluded as 'trying to forget the snake, trying to tame the snake, trying to beat the hell out of the child' when the simple, direct and only true solution is only to realize that there is only a rope, and that santa claus isn't real. Only Awakening liberates us from a bondage that is without basis. Without the right contemplation and instilling of right view, you can 'sit quietly in pure awareness' for an entire lifetime without waking up. I cannot stress this point enough because this is a very prevalent erroneous understanding - even someone at the I AM level of realization will talk about non-conceptuality, non-conceptual Presence-Awareness and think it is final. Same goes for other stages. By overemphasizing on non-conceptuality, they will miss the subtler aspects of insight, they will fail to grasp right view, they will fail to tackle the subtler imprints and mental framework of viewing dualistically and inherently. They will not even see their framework of perceiving self and things as false that is causing some subtle effort and clinging (to a Self or to an actual ground here/now or to an actual world), just like you will never see your dream as a dream until well... you wake up. As Zen writer and speaker Ted Biringer says, "Accurate understanding is not authentic realization. At the same time, authentic realization can hardly be expected to occur without accurate understanding. And while an absence of "right understanding" almost excludes the possibility of authentic realization, the presence of "wrong understanding" excludes even the slimmest hope of success. If we aspire to realize what Zen practice-enlightenment truly is, then, as Dogen says, "We should inquire into it, and we should experience it." To follow his guidance here we will need to understand his view of what "it" is that needs to be inquired into, and who the "we" is that is to do the inquiring." Non-conceptuality does not mean non-attachment. For example when you realize the I AM, you cling to that pure non-conceptual beingness and consciousness as your true identity. You cling to that pure non-conceptual thought very tightly – you wish to abide in that purest state of presence 24/7. This clinging prevents us from experiencing Presence AS the Transience. This is a form of clinging to something non-conceptual. So know that going beyond concepts does not mean overcoming the view of inherency and its resultant clinging clinging. Even in the substantial non-dual phase, there is still clinging to a Source, a One Mind – even though experience is non-dual and non-conceptual. But when inherent view is dissolved, we see there is absolutely nothing we can cling to, and this is the beginning of Right View and the Path to Nirvana – the cessation of clinging and craving. So as you can see, non-conceptual, even non-dual experience does not liberate - so we have to use the intellect to understand right view, and then investigate it in our experience. This is like a fire that in the end burns up the candle it is burning on, consuming itself in the process, leaving no trace even of itself. In other words, conceptual understanding of right view, coupled with investigative practice, results in true realization that dissolves concepts leaving non-conceptual wisdom - but without that process of investigating and trying to understand right view, merely remaining in a state of non-conceptuality isn't going to help you get free. People who fear engaging in thought, trying to understand the right view, challenging their views and understanding of things, are unfortunately going to stick with their own deluded framework of perceiving things. Now having diverted our attention so much, let us return to the subject at hand.... - http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/12/experience-realization-view-practice.html ------------- If you neglect the importance of right view, you will remain stuck in what Thusness calls "the disease of non-conceptuality" and fail to realize the profound dharma that leads to true liberation. Lastly I like to put a link to the Buddha's own words about the uniqueness of his doctrine - because he says it so well in his own words - http://www.cambodianbuddhist.org/english/website/canon/sutta/majjhima/mn011.html Cula-sihanada Sutta (MN 11) -- The Shorter Discourse on the Lion's Roar {M i 63} [Ñanamoli Thera and Bhikkhu Bodhi, trans.]. The Buddha declares that only through practicing in accord with the Dhamma can Awakening be realized. His teaching is distinguished from those of other religions and philosophies through its unique rejection of all doctrines of self. [BB]
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If there is so-called rite view , there must a wrong view? Is not that causing a split within onself. Existence knows no wrong, knows no rite, it is a fiction of the human mind. Selective deception or attention is still an ego trip! All religions whichever form or how it is practiced are merely pointers and they are pointing to ... something that can only be partaken of with being empty. Organized religion is flawed that it has reduced them to dogmas, beliefs, doctrines. What is real can only be expeirenced as ti comes or not come ( a paradox) and to add to reality is distortion!
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@fugazzi: yes, the buddha taught that there is right view (karma, rebirth, four noble truths etc) and there is wrong view. What is wrong view? The Buddha teaches us that self view (the view that self exists) is wrong view. The view of eternal self is wrong view. The view of an annihilationistic self - that self ceases at death and therefore no rebirth and karma, is also wrong view. In total there are 62 wrong views that he taught in detail. If you are able to realize no self and dependent origination, automatically you will be freed from wrong views and your irreversible journey to liberation begins. Otherwise, if wrong view persists, no end to our suffering will be in sight. Your notion that there cannot be wrong view is the true ego deception that will prevent your progress.
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Can someone pls copy and paste this sutta into this topic, difficult to do so from the phone: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.01.0.bodh.html
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Brahmaj�la Sutta: The All-embracing Net of Viewstranslated from the Pali byBhikkhu Bodhi
I. Talk on Wanderers (Paribb�jakakath�)
1. Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Exalted One was travelling along the highway between R�jagaha and N�land� together with a great company of bhikkhus, with about five hundred bhikkhus. At the same time the wanderer Suppiya was also travelling along the highway between R�jagaha and N�land� together with his pupil, the youth Brahmadatta. Along the way, the wanderer Suppiya spoke in many ways in dispraise of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha. But his pupil, the youth Brahmadatta, spoke in many ways in praise of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha. Thus these two, teacher and pupil, followed closely behind the Exalted One and the company of bhikkhus, making assertions in direct contradiction to each other.
2. Then the Exalted One together with the company of bhikkhus entered the royal resthouse in the Ambalaá¹á¹hika garden in order to pass the night. The wanderer Suppiya together with his pupil, the youth Brahmadatta, also entered the royal resthouse in the Ambalaá¹á¹hika garden in order to pass the night. There, too, the wanderer Suppiya spoke in many ways in dispraise of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha, while his pupil Brahmadatta spoke in many ways in their praise. Thus these two, teacher and pupil, dwelt together making assertions in direct contradiction to each other.
3. When dawn broke a number of bhikkhus, after rising, assembled in the pavilion. As they sat together, the following conversation sprang up among them: "It is wonderful and marvellous, friends, how the Exalted One, he who knows and sees, the Worthy One, the perfectly enlightened Buddha, has so thoroughly penetrated the diversity in the dispositions of beings. For this wanderer Suppiya spoke in many ways in dispraise of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha, while his own pupil, the youth Brahmadatta, spoke in many ways in their praise. These two, teacher and pupil, followed closely behind the Exalted One and the company of bhikkhus, making assertions in direct contradiction to each other."
4. Then the Exalted One, realizing the turn their discussion had taken, entered the pavilion, sat down on the prepared seat, and addressed the bhikkhus: "What kind of discussion were you holding just now, bhikkhus? What was the subject of your conversation?"
The bhikkhus replied: "When dawn had broken, Lord, after rising we assembled in the pavilion. As we sat here, the following conversation sprang up among us: 'It is wonderful and marvellous friends, how the Exalted One, he who knows and sees, the Worthy One, the perfectly enlightened Buddha, has so thoroughly penetrated the diversity in the dispositions of beings. For this wanderer Suppiya spoke in many ways in dispraise of the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha, while his own pupil, the youth Brahmadatta, spoke in many ways in their praise. These two, teacher and pupil, followed closely behind the Exalted One and the company of bhikkhus, making assertions in direct contradiction to each other.' This, Lord, was the conversation we were having when the Exalted One arrived."
5. "If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should not give way to resentment, displeasure, or animosity against them in your heart. For if you were to become angry or upset in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If you were to become angry or upset when others speak in dispraise of us, would you be able to recognize whether their statements are rightly or wrongly spoken?"
"Certainly not, Lord."
"If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.'
6. "And if, bhikkhus, others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should not give way to jubilation, joy, and exultation in your heart. For if you were to become jubilant, joyful, and exultant in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should acknowledge what is fact as fact, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is a fact, this is true, there is such a thing in us, this is found among us.'
II. The Analysis of Virtue
1. The Short Section on Virtue (Cūḷasīla)
7. "It is, bhikkhus, only to trifling and insignificant matters, to the minor details of mere moral virtue, that a worldling would refer when speaking in praise of the Tath�gata. And what are those trifling and insignificant matters, those minor details of mere moral virtue, to which he would refer?
8. "'Having abandoned the destruction of life, the recluse Gotama abstains from the destruction of life. He has laid aside the rod and the sword, and dwells conscientious, full of kindness, compassionate for the welfare of all living beings.' It is in this way, bhikkhus, that the worldling would speak when speaking in praise of the Tath�gata.
"Or he might say: 'Having abandoned taking what is not given, the recluse Gotama abstains from taking what is not given. Accepting and expecting only what is given, he dwells in honesty and rectitude of heart.'
"Or he might say: 'Having abandoned unchaste living, the recluse Gotama lives the life of chastity. He dwells remote (from women), and abstains from the vulgar practice of sexual intercourse.'
9. "Or he might say: 'Having abandoned false speech, the recluse Gotama abstains from falsehood. He speaks only the truth, he lives devoted to truth; trustworthy and reliable, he does not deceive anyone in the world.'
"Or he might say: 'Having abandoned slander, the recluse Gotama abstains from slander. He does not repeat elsewhere what he has heard here in order to divide others from the people here, nor does he repeat here what he has heard elsewhere in order to divide these from the people there. Thus he is a reconciler of those who are divided and a promoter of friendships. Rejoicing, delighting, and exulting in concord, he speaks only words that are conducive to concord.'
"Or he might say: 'Having abandoned harsh speech, the recluse Gotama abstains from harsh speech. He speaks only such words as are gentle, pleasing to the ear, endearing, going to the heart, urbane, amiable, and agreeable to many people.'
"Or he might say: 'Having abandoned idle chatter, the recluse Gotama abstains from idle chatter. He speaks at the right time, speaks what is factual, speaks on the good, on the Dhamma and the Discipline. His words are worth treasuring: they are timely, backed by reason, definite and connected with the good.'
10. "Or he might say: 'The recluse Gotama abstains from damaging seed and plant life. He eats only in one part of the day, refraining from food at night and from eating at improper times. He abstains from dancing, singing, instrumental music, and witnessing unsuitable shows. He abstains from wearing garlands, embellishing himself with scents, and beautifying himself with unguents. He abstains from accepting gold and silver. He abstains from accepting uncooked grain, raw meat, women and girls, male and female slaves, goats and sheep, fowl and swine, elephants, cattle, horses and mares. He abstains from accepting fields and lands. He abstains from running messages and errands. He abstains from buying and selling, and from dealing with false weights, false metals, and false measures. He abstains from the crooked ways of bribery, deception, and fraud. He abstains from mutilating, executing, imprisoning, robbery, plunder, and violence.'
"It is in this way, bhikkhus, that the worldling would speak when speaking in praise of the Tath�gata.
2. The Intermediate Section on Virtue (Majjhimasīla)
11. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some honorable recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, continuously cause damage to seed and plant life — to plants propagated from roots, stems, joints, buddings, and seeds — the recluse Gotama abstains from damaging seed and plant life.'
12. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some honorable recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, enjoy the use of stored up goods such as stored up food, drinks, garments, vehicles, bedding, scents, and comestibles — the recluse Gotama abstains from the use of stored up goods'
13. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some honorable recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, attend unsuitable shows, such as: shows featuring dancing, singing, or instrumental music; theatrical performances; narrations of legends; music played by hand-clapping, cymbals, and drums; picture houses; acrobatic performances; combats of elephants, horses, buffaloes, bulls, goats, rams, cocks and quails; stick-fights, boxing and wrestling, sham-fights, roll-calls, battle-arrays, and regimental reviews — the recluse Gotama abstains from attending such unsuitable shows.'
14. "Or he might say: "Whereas some honorable recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, indulge in the following games that are a basis for negligence:[1]aá¹á¹hapada (a game played on an eight-row chess-board); dasapada (a game played on a ten-row chess-board); Ä�kÄ�sa (a game of the same type played by imagining a board in the air); parihÄ�rapatha ("hopscotch," a diagram is drawn on the ground and one has to jump in the allowable spaces avoiding the lines); santika ("spellicans," assembling the pieces in a pile, removing and returning them without disturbing the pile); khalika (dice games); ghaá¹ika (hitting a short stick with a long stick); salÄ�kahattha (a game played by dipping the hand in paint or dye, striking the ground or a wall, and requiring the participants to show the figure of an elephant, a horse etc.); akkha (ball games); paá¹…gacÄ«ra (blowing through toy pipes made of leaves); vaá¹…kaka (ploughing with miniature ploughs); mokkhacika (turning somersaults); ciá¹…gulika (playing with paper windmills); pattÄ�ḷaka (playing with toy measures); rathaka (playing with toy chariots); dhanuka (playing with toy bows); akkharika (guessing at letters written in the air or on one's back); manesika (guessing others' thoughts); yathÄ�vajja (games involving mimicry of deformities) — the recluse Gotama abstains from such games and recreations.'
15. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on food offered by the faithful, enjoy the use of high and luxurious beds and seats, such as: spacious couches; thrones with animal figures carved on the supports; long-haired coverlets; multi-colored patchwork coverlets; white woollen coverlets; woollen coverlets embroidered with flowers; quilts stuffed with cotton; woollen coverlets embroidered with animal figures; woollen coverlets with hair on both sides or on one side; bedspreads embroidered with gems; silk coverlets; dance-hall carpets; elephant, horse or chariot rugs; rugs of antelope-skins; choice spreads made of kadali-deer hides; spreads with red awnings overhead; couches with red cushions for the head and feet — the recluse Gotama abstains from the use of such high and luxurious beds and seats.'
16. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, enjoy the use of such devices for embellishing and beautifying themselves as the following: rubbing scented powders into the body, massaging with oils, bathing in perfumed water, kneading the limbs, mirrors, ointments, garlands, scents, unguents, face-powders, make-up, bracelets, head-bands, decorated walking sticks, ornamented medicine-tubes, rapiers, sunshades, embroidered sandals, turbans, diadems, yaktail whisks, and long-fringed white robes — the recluse Gotama abstains from the use of such devices for embellishment and beautification.'
17. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, engage in frivolous chatter, such as: talk about kings, thieves, and ministers of state; talk about armies, dangers and wars; talk about food, drink, garments, and lodgings; talk about garlands and scents; talk about relatives, vehicles, villages, towns, cities, and countries; talk about women and talk about heroes; street talk and talk by the well; talk about those departed in days gone by; rambling chit-chat; speculations about the world and about the sea; talk about gain and loss — the recluse Gotama abstains from such frivolous chatter.'[2]
18. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, engage in wrangling argumentation, (saying to one another): "You don't understand this doctrine and discipline. I am the one who understands this doctrine and discipline." — "How can you understand this doctrine and discipline?" — "You're practising the wrong way. I'm practising the right way." — "I'm being consistent. You're inconsistent." — "What should have been said first you said last, what should have been said last you said first." — "What you took so long to think out has been confuted." — "Your doctrine has been refuted. You're defeated. Go, try to save your doctrine, or disentangle yourself now if you can" — the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrangling argumentation.'
19. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, engage in running messages and errands for kings, ministers of state, khattiyas, brahmins, householders, or youths, (who command them): "Go here, go there, take this, bring that from there" — the recluse Gotama abstains from running such messages and errands.'
20. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, engage in scheming, talking, hinting, belittling others, and pursuing gain with gain — the recluse Gotama abstains from such kinds of scheming and talking.'[3]
"It is in this way, bhikkhus, that a worldling would speak when speaking in praise of the Tath�gata.
3. The Long Section on Virtue (Mah�sīla)
21. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, earn their living by a wrong means of livelihood, by such debased arts as:[4] prophesying long life, prosperity etc., or the reverse, from the marks on a person's limbs, hands, feet etc; divining by means of omens and signs; making auguries on the basis of thunderbolts and celestial portents; interpreting ominous dreams; telling fortunes from marks on the body; making auguries from the marks on cloth gnawed by mice; offering fire oblations; offering oblations from a ladle; offering oblations of husks, rice powder, rice grains, ghee, and oil to the gods; offering oblations from the mouth; offering blood-sacrifices to the gods; making predictions based on the fingertips; determining whether the site for a proposed house or garden is propitious or not; making predictions for officers of state; the knowledge of charms to lay demons in a cemetery; the knowledge of charms to cure one possessed by ghosts; the knowledge of charms to be pronounced by one living in an earthen house; the snake craft (for curing snake bites and charming snakes); the poison craft (for neutralizing or making poison); the scorpion craft and rat craft (for curing scorpion stings and rat bites, respectively); the bird craft and crow craft (for understanding the cries of birds and crows); foretelling the number of years that a man has to live; the knowledge of charms to give protection from arrows; reciting charms to understand the language of animals — the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrong means of livelihood, from such debased arts.'
22. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, earn their living by a wrong means of livelihood, by such debased arts as interpreting the significance of the color, shape, and other features of the following items to determine whether they portend fortune or misfortune for their owners: gems, garments, staffs, swords, spears, arrows, bows, other weapons, women, men, boys, girls, slaves, slave-women, elephants, horses, buffaloes, bulls, cows, goats, rams, fowl, quails, lizards, rabbits, tortoises, and other animals — the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrong means of livelihood, from such debased arts.'
23. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, earn their living by a wrong means of livelihood, by such debased arts as making predictions to the effect that:
the king will march forth; the king will not march forth; our king will attack and the enemy king will retreat; the enemy king will attack and our king will retreat; our king will triumph and the enemy king will be defeated; the enemy king will triumph and our king will be defeated; thus there will be victory for one and defeat for the other — the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrong means of livelihood, from such debased arts.'
24. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, earn their living by a wrong means of livelihood, by such debased arts as predicting: there will be an eclipse of the moon, an eclipse of the sun, an eclipse of a constellation; the sun and the moon will go on their proper courses; there will be an aberration of the sun and moon; the constellations will go on their proper courses; there will be an aberration of a constellation; there will be a fall of meteors; there will be a skyblaze; there will be an earthquake; there will be an earth-roar; there will be a rising and setting, a darkening and brightening, of the moon, sun, and constellations; such will be the result of the moon's eclipse, such the result of the sun's eclipse, (and so on down to) such will be the result of the rising and setting, darkening and brightening of the moon, sun, and constellations — the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrong means of livelihood, from such debased arts.'
25. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, earn their living by a wrong means of livelihood, by such debased arts as predicting: there will be abundant rain; there will be a drought; there will be a good harvest; there will be a famine; there will be security; there will be danger; there will be sickness; there will be health; or they earn their living by accounting, computation, calculation, the composing of poetry, and speculations about the world — the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrong means of livelihood, from such debased arts.'
26. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, earn their living by a wrong means of livelihood, by such debased arts as: arranging auspicious dates for marriages, both those in which the bride is brought in (from another family) and those in which she is sent out (to another family); arranging auspicious dates for betrothals and divorces; arranging auspicious dates for the accumulation or expenditure of money; reciting charms to make people lucky or unlucky; rejuvenating the fetuses of abortive women; reciting spells to bind a man's tongue, to paralyze his jaws, to make him lose control over his hands, to make him lose control over his jaw, or to bring on deafness; obtaining oracular answers to questions by means of a mirror, a girl, or a god; worshipping the sun; worshipping MahÄ�brahmÄ�; bringing forth flames from the mouth; invoking the goddess of luck — the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrong means of livelihood, from such debased arts.'
27. "Or he might say: 'Whereas some recluses and brahmins, while living on the food offered by the faithful, earn their living by a wrong means of livelihood, by such debased arts as: promising gifts to deities in return for favors; fulfilling such promises; demonology; reciting spells after entering an earthen house; inducing virility and impotence; preparing and consecrating sites for a house; giving ceremonial mouthwashes and ceremonial bathing; offering sacrificial fires; administering emetics, purgatives, expectorants and phlegmagogues; administering medicine through the ear and through the nose; administering ointments and counter-ointments; practising fine surgery on the eyes and ears; practising general surgery on the body; practising as a children's doctor; the application of medicinal roots; the binding on of medicinal herbs — the recluse Gotama abstains from such wrong means of livelihood, from such debased arts.'
"These, bhikkhus, are those trifling and insignificant matters, those minor details of mere moral virtue, that a worldling would refer to when speaking in praise of the Tath�gata.
III. Speculations about the Past (Pubbantakappika)
28. "There are, bhikkhus, other dhammas, deep, difficult to see, difficult to understand, peaceful and sublime, beyond the sphere of reasoning, subtle, comprehensible only to the wise, which the Tath�gata, having realized for himself with direct knowledge, propounds to others; and it is concerning these that those who would rightly praise the Tath�gata in accordance with reality would speak. And what are these dhammas?
29. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who are speculators about the past, who hold settled views about the past, and who on eighteen grounds assert various conceptual theorems referring to the past. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins frame their speculations?
1. Eternalism (SassatavÄ�da): Views 1–4
30. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who are eternalists, and who on four grounds proclaim the self and the world to be eternal. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?
31. "In the first case, bhikkhus, some recluse or a brahmin, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated, [purified, clarified, unblemished, devoid of corruptions],[5] he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects) one birth, two, three, four, or five births; ten, twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty births; a hundred, a thousand, or a hundred thousand births; many hundreds of births, many thousands of births, many hundreds of thousands of births. (He recalls:) 'Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.' Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details.
"He speaks thus: 'The self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself. What is the reason? Because I, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attain to such a degree of mental concentration that with my mind thus concentrated, I recollect my numerous past lives in their modes and their details. For this reason I know this: the self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the first case.
32. "In the second case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists, who proclaim the self and the world to be eternal?
"Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or brahmin, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects his past lives throughout) one aeon of world-contraction and expansion, throughout two, three, four, five, or ten aeons of world-contraction and expansion.[6] (He recalls:) 'Then I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose there. There too I had such a name, belonged to such a clan, had such an appearance; such was my food, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my span of life. Passing away thence, I re-arose here.' Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details.
"He speaks thus: 'The self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself. What is the reason?"
(The remainder is exactly the same as §31 except for the extent of time recollected.)
"This, bhikkhus, is the second case.
33. "In the third case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists, who proclaim the self and the world to be eternal?
"Herein, bhikkhus, some recluse or brahmin, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects his numerous past lives: that is, (he recollects his past lives throughout) ten aeons of world-contraction and expansion, throughout twenty, thirty, or forty aeons of world-contraction and expansion... (As above)... Thus he recollects his numerous past lives in their modes and their details.
"He speaks thus: 'The self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself. What is the reason?
(As in §31 except for the extent of time.) "This, bhikkhus, is the third case.
34. "In the fourth case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists, who proclaim the self and the world to be eternal?
"Herein, bhikkhus, some recluse or brahmin is a rationalist, an investigator. He declares his view — hammered out by reason, deduced from his investigations, following his own flight of thought — thus: "The self and the world are eternal, barren, steadfast as a mountain peak, standing firm like a pillar. And though these beings roam and wander (through the round of existence), pass away and re-arise, yet the self and the world remain the same just like eternity itself.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the fourth case.
35. "It is on these four grounds, bhikkhus, that those recluses and brahmins who are eternalists proclaim the self and the world to be eternal. Whatever recluses and brahmins there may be who proclaim the self and the world to be eternal, all of them do so on these four grounds or on a certain one of them. Outside of these there is none.
36. "This, bhikkhus, the Tath�gata understands. And he understands: 'These standpoints, thus assumed and thus misapprehended, lead to such a future destination, to such a state in the world beyond.' He understands as well what transcends this, yet even that understanding he does not misapprehend. And because he is free from misapprehension, he has realized within himself the state of perfect peace. Having understood as they really are the origin and the passing away of feelings, their satisfaction, their unsatisfactoriness, and the escape from them, the Tath�gata, bhikkhus, is emancipated through non-clinging.
37. "These are those dhammas, bhikkhus, that are deep, difficult to see, difficult to understand, peaceful and sublime, beyond the sphere of reasoning, subtle, comprehensible only to the wise, which the Tath�gata, having realized for himself with direct knowledge, propounds to others; and it is concerning these that those who would rightly praise the Tath�gata in accordance with reality would speak.
2. Partial-Eternalism (EkaccasassatavÄ�da): Views 5–8
38. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who are eternalists in regard to some things and non-eternalists in regard to other things, and who on four grounds proclaim the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?
39. "There comes a time, bhikkhus, when after the lapse of a long period this world contracts (disintegrates). While the world is contracting, beings for the most part are reborn in the Ābhassara Brahma-world.[7] There they dwell, mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the air, abiding in glory. And they continue thus for a long, long period of time.
40. "But sooner or later, bhikkhus, after the lapse of a long period, there comes a time when this world begins to expand once again. While the world is expanding, an empty palace of Brahm� appears. Then a certain being, due to the exhaustion of his life-span or the exhaustion of his merit, passes away from the Ābhassara plane and re-arises in the empty palace of Brahm�. There he dwells, mind made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the air, abiding in glory. And he continues thus for a long, long period of time.
41. "Then, as a result of dwelling there all alone for so long a time, there arises in him dissatisfaction and agitation, (and he yearns): 'Oh, that other beings might come to this place!' Just at that moment, due to the exhaustion of their life-span or the exhaustion of their merit, certain other beings pass away from the Ābhassara plane and re-arise in the palace of Brahm�, in companionship with him. There they dwell, mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-luminous, moving through the air, abiding in glory. And they continue thus for a long, long period of time.
42. "Thereupon the being who re-arose there first thinks to himself: 'I am Brahm�, the Great Brahm�, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Supreme Being, the Ordainer, the Almighty, the Father of all that are and are to be. And these beings have been created by me. What is the reason? Because first I made the wish: "Oh, that other beings might come to this place!" And after I made this resolution, now these beings have come.'
"And the beings who re-arose there after him also think: 'This must be Brahm�, the Great Brahm�, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Supreme Being, the Ordainer, the Almighty, the Father of all that are and are to be. And we have been created by him. What is the reason? Because we see that he was here first, and we appeared here after him.'
43. "Herein, bhikkhus, the being who re-arose there first possesses longer life, greater beauty, and greater authority than the beings who re-arose there after him.
44. "Now, bhikkhus, this comes to pass, that a certain being, after passing away from that plane, takes rebirth in this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from home to homelessness. When he has gone forth, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, he attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects his immediately preceding life, but none previous to that. He speaks thus: 'We were created by him, by Brahm�, the Great Brahm�, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Supreme Being, the Ordainer, the Almighty, the Father of all that are and are to be. He is permanent, stable, eternal, not subject to change, and he will remain the same just like eternity itself. But we, who have been created by him and have come to this world, are impermanent, unstable, short-lived, doomed to perish.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the first case.
45. "In the second case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists in regard to some things and non-eternalists in regard to other things, proclaiming the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal?
"There are, bhikkhus, certain gods called 'corrupted by play.'
These gods spend an excessive time indulging in the delights of laughter and play. As a consequence they become forgetful and, when they become forgetful, they pass away from that plane.
46. "Now, bhikkhus, this comes to pass, that a certain being, after passing away from that plane, takes rebirth in this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from home to homelessness. When he has gone forth, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, he attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects his immediately preceding life, but none previous to that. He speaks thus: 'Those honorable gods who are not corrupted by play do not spend an excessive time indulging in the delights of laughter and play. As a consequence they do not become forgetful, and because they do not become forgetful they do not pass away from that plane. Those gods are permanent, stable, eternal, not subject to change, and they will remain the same just like eternity itself. But we were gods corrupted by play. We spent an excessive time indulging in the delights of laughter and play, and as a consequence we became forgetful. When we became forgetful we passed away from that plane. Coming to this world, now we are impermanent, unstable, short-lived, doomed to perish.'
"This bhikkhus, is the second case.
47. "In the third case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists in regard to some things and non-eternalists in regard to other things, proclaiming the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal?
"There are, bhikkhus, certain gods called 'corrupted by mind.' These gods contemplate one another with excessive envy. As a consequence their minds becomes corrupted by anger towards one another. When their minds are corrupted by anger, their bodies and minds become exhausted and consequently, they pass away from that plane.
48. "Now, bhikkhus, this comes to pass, that a certain being, after passing away from that plane, takes rebirth in this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from home to homelessness. When he has gone forth, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, he attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects his immediately preceding life, but none previous to that. He speaks thus: 'Those honorable gods who are not corrupted by mind do not contemplate each other with excessive envy. As a result, their minds do not become corrupted by anger towards one another, their bodies and minds do not become exhausted, and they do not pass away from that plane. Those gods are permanent, stable, not subject to change, and they will remain the same just like eternity itself. But we were gods corrupted by mind. We contemplated each other with excessive envy and as a result our minds became corrupted by anger towards one another. When our minds were corrupted by anger, our bodies and minds became exhausted and consequently, we passed away from that plane. Coming to this world, now we are impermanent, unstable, short-lived, doomed to perish.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the third case.
49. "In the fourth case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins eternalists in regard to some things and non-eternalists in regard to other things, proclaiming the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal?
"Herein, bhikkhus, recluse or a certain brahmin is a rationalist, an investigator. He declares his view — hammered out by reason, deduced from his investigations, following his own flight of thought — thus: 'That which is called "the eye," "the ear," "the nose," "the tongue," and "the body" — that self is impermanent, unstable, non-eternal, subject to change. But that which is called "mind" (citta) or "mentality" (mano) or "consciousness" (viññÄ�ṇa) — that self is permanent, stable, eternal, not subject to change, and it will remain the same just like eternity itself.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the fourth case.
50. "It is on these four grounds, bhikkhus, that those recluses and brahmins who are partial-eternalists proclaim the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal. Whatever recluses and brahmins there may be who proclaim the self and the world to be partly eternal and partly non-eternal, all of them do so on these four grounds or on a certain one of them. Outside of these there is none.
51. "This, bhikkhus, the Tath�gata understands. And he understands: 'These standpoints, thus assumed and thus misapprehended, lead to such a future destination, to such a state in the world beyond.' He understands as well what transcends this, yet even that understanding he does not misapprehend. And because he is free from misapprehension, he has realized within himself the state of perfect peace. Having understood as they really are the origin and the passing away of feelings, their satisfaction, their unsatisfactoriness, and the escape from them, the Tath�gata, bhikkhus, is emancipated through non-clinging.
52. "These are those dhammas, bhikkhus, that are deep, difficult to see, difficult to understand, peaceful and sublime, beyond the sphere of reasoning, subtle, comprehensible only to the wise, which the Tath�gata, having realized for himself with direct knowledge, propounds to others; and it is concerning these that those who would rightly praise the Tath�gata in accordance with reality would speak.
3. Doctrines of the Finitude and Infinity of the World (AntÄ�nantavÄ�da): Views 9–12
53. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who are extensionists,[8] and who on four grounds proclaim the world to be finite or infinite. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?
54. "In the first case, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he abides perceiving the world as finite. He speaks thus: 'The world is finite and bounded. What is the reason? Because I attain to such concentration of mind that I abide perceiving the world as finite. For that reason I know this: the world is finite and bounded.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the first case.
55. "In the second case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins extensionists, proclaiming the world to be finite or infinite?
"Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he abides perceiving the world as infinite. He speaks thus: 'The world is infinite and boundless. Those recluses and brahmins who declare the world to be finite and bounded speak falsely. The world is infinite and boundless. What is the reason? Because I attain to such concentration of mind that I abide perceiving the world as infinite. For this reason I know this: the world is infinite and boundless.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the second case.
56. "In the third case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins extensionists, proclaiming the world to be finite or infinite?
"Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he abides perceiving the world as finite in the upward and downward directions, but as infinite across. He speaks thus: 'The world is both finite and infinite. Those recluses and brahmins who declare the world to be finite and bounded speak falsely; and those recluses and brahmins who declare the world to be infinite and boundless also speak falsely. The world is both finite and infinite. For what reason? Because I attain to such concentration of mind that I abide perceiving the world as finite in the upward and downward directions, but as infinite across. For this reason I know this: the world is both finite and infinite.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the third case.
57. "In the fourth case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins extensionists, proclaiming the world to be finite or infinite?
"Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin is a rationalist, an investigator. He declares his view — hammered out by reason, deduced from his investigations, following his own flight of thought — thus: 'The world is neither finite nor infinite. Those recluses and brahmins who declare the world to be finite and bounded, those who declare it to be infinite and boundless, and those who declare it to be both finite and infinite — all these speak falsely. The world is neither finite nor infinite.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the fourth case.
58. "It is on these four grounds, bhikkhus, that those recluses and brahmins, who are extensionists proclaim the world to be finite or infinite. Whatever recluses or brahmins there may be who proclaim the world to be finite or infinite, all of them do so on these four grounds or on a certain one of them. Outside of these there is none.
59–60. "This, bhikkhus, the TathÄ�gata understands... (repeat §§ 51–52 in full)... and it is concerning these that those who would praise the TathÄ�gata in accordance with reality would speak.
4. Doctrines of Endless Equivocation (AmarÄ�vikkhepavÄ�da): Views 13–16
61. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins who are endless equivocators.[9] When questioned about this or that point, on four grounds they resort to evasive statements and to endless equivocation. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins do so?
62. "Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin does not understand as it really is what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. He thinks: 'I do not understand as it really is what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. If, without understanding, I were to declare something to be wholesome or unwholesome, my declaration might be false. If my declaration should be false, that would distress me, and that distress would be an obstacle for me.' Therefore, out of fear and loathing of making a false statement, he does not declare anything to be wholesome or unwholesome. But when he is questioned about this or that point, he resorts to evasive statements and to endless equivocation: "I do not take it thus, nor do I take it in that way, nor do I take it in some other way. I do not say that it is not, nor do I say that it is neither this nor that.' "This, bhikkhus, is the first case.
63. "In the second case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins endless equivocators, resorting to evasive statements and to endless equivocation?
"Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin does not understand as it really is what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. He thinks: 'I do not understand as it really is what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. If, without understanding, I were to declare something to be wholesome or unwholesome, desire and lust or hatred and aversion might arise in me. Should desire and lust or hated and aversion arise in me, that would be clinging on my part. Such clinging would distress me, and that distress would be an obstacle for me.' Therefore, out of fear and loathing of clinging, he does not declare anything to be wholesome or unwholesome. But when questioned about this or that point he resorts to evasive statements and to endless equivocation: 'I do not take it thus, nor do I take it in that way, nor do I take it in some other way. I do not say that it is not, nor do I say that it is neither this nor that.' "This, bhikkhus, is the second case.
64. "In the third case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins endless equivocators, resorting to evasive statements and to endless equivocation?
"Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin does not understand as it really is what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. He thinks: 'I do not understand as it really is what is wholesome and what is unwholesome. Now, there are recluses and brahmins who are wise, clever, experienced in controversy, who wander about demolishing the views of others with their wisdom. If, without understanding, I were to declare something to be wholesome or unwholesome, they might cross-examine me about my views, press me for reasons and refute my statements. If they should do so, I might not be able to reply. If I could not reply, that would distress me, and that distress would be an obstacle for me.' Therefore, out of fear and loathing of being cross-examined, he does not declare anything to be wholesome or unwholesome. But, when questioned about this or that point, he resorts to evasive statements and to endless equivocation: 'I do not take it thus, nor do I take it in that way, nor do I take it in some other way. I do not say that it is not, nor do I say that it is neither this nor that.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the third case.
65. "In the fourth case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins endless equivocators, resorting to evasive statements and to endless equivocation?
"Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin is dull and stupid. Due to his dullness and stupidity, when he is questioned about this or that point, he resorts to evasive statements and to endless equivocation: 'If you ask me whether there is a world beyond — if I thought there is another world, I would declare that there is. But I do not take it thus, nor do I take it in that way, nor do I take it in some other way. I do not say that it is not, nor do I say that is neither this nor that.'
"Similarly, when asked any of the following questions, he resorts to the same evasive statements and to endless equivocation:
A. - 2. Is there no world beyond?
- 3. Is it that there both is and is not a world beyond?
- 4. Is it that there neither is nor is not a world beyond?
B. - 1. Are there beings spontaneously reborn?
- 2. Are there no beings spontaneously reborn?
- 3. Is it that there both are and are not beings spontaneously reborn?
- 4. Is it that there neither are nor are not beings spontaneously reborn?
C. - 1. Is there fruit and result of good and bad action?
- 2. Is there no fruit and result of good and bad action?
- 3. Is it that there both is and is not fruit and result of good and bad action?
- 4. Is it that there neither is nor is not fruit and result of good and bad action?
D. - 1.Does the Tath�gata exist after death?
- 2.Does the Tath�gata not exist after death?
- 3.Does the Tath�gata both exist and not exist after death?
- 4.Does the Tath�gata neither exist nor not exist after death?
"This bhikkhus, is the fourth case.
66. "It is on these four grounds, bhikkhus, that those recluses and brahmins who are endless equivocators resort to evasive statements and to endless equivocation when questioned about this or that point. Whatever recluses or brahmins there may be who resort to evasive statements and to endless equivocation, all of them do so on these four grounds or on a certain one of them. Outside of these there is none.
"This, bhikkhus, the Tath�gata understands... and it is concerning these that those who would rightly praise the Tath�gata in accordance with reality would speak.
5. Doctrines of Fortuitous Origination (AdhiccasamuppannavÄ�da): Views 17–18
67. "There are, bhikkhus, some recluses and brahmins, who are fortuitous originationists, and who on two grounds proclaim the self and the world to originate fortuitously. And owing to what, with reference to what, do these honorable recluses and brahmins proclaim their views?
68. "There are, bhikkhus, certain gods called 'non-percipient beings.' When perception arises in them, those gods pass away from that plane. Now, bhikkhus, this comes to pass, that a certain being, after passing away from that plane, takes rebirth in this world. Having come to this world, he goes forth from home to homelessness. When he has gone forth, by means of ardor, endeavor, application, diligence, and right reflection, he attains to such a degree of mental concentration that with his mind thus concentrated he recollects the arising of perception, but nothing previous to that. He speaks thus: 'The self and the world originate fortuitously. What is the reason? Because previously I did not exist, but now I am. Not having been, I sprang into being.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the first case.
69. "In the second case, owing to what, with reference to what, are some honorable recluses and brahmins fortuitous originationists, proclaiming the self and the world to originate fortuitously?
"Herein, bhikkhus, a certain recluse or a brahmin is a rationalist, an investigator. He declares his view — hammered out by reason, deduced from his investigations, following his own flight of thought — thus: 'The self and the world originate fortuitously.'
"This, bhikkhus, is the second case.
70. "It is on these two grounds, bhikkhus, that those recluses and brahmins who are fortuitous originationists proclaim the self and the world to originate fortuitously. Whatever recluses or brahmins there may be who proclaim the self and the world to originate fortuitously, all of them do so on these two grounds or on a certain one of them. Outside of these there is none.
"This, bhikkhus, the Tath�gata understands... and it is concerning these that those who would rightly praise the Tath�gata in accordance with reality would speak.
71. "It is on these eighteen grounds, bhikkhus, that those recluses and brahmins who are speculators about the past and hold settled views about the past assert various conceptual theorems referring to the past. Whatever recluses or brahmins are speculators about the past, hold settled views about the past, and assert various conceptual theorems referring to the past, all of them do so on these eighteen grounds or on a certain one of them. Outside of these there is none.
72. "This, bhikkhus, the Tath�gata understands. And he understands: 'These standpoints, thus assumed and thus misapprehended, lead to such a future destination, to such in the world beyond.' He understands as well what transcends this, yet even that understanding he does not misapprehend. And because he is free from misapprehension, he has realized within himself the state of perfect peace. Having understood as they really are the origin and the passing away of feelings, their satisfaction, their unsatisfactoriness, and the escape from them, the Tath�gata, bhikkhus, is emancipated through non-clinging.
73. "These are those dhammas, bhikkhus, that are deep, difficult to see, difficult to understand, peaceful and sublime, beyond the sphere of reasoning, subtle, comprehensible only to the wise, which the Tath�gata, having realized for himself with direct knowledge, propounds to others; and it is concerning these that those who would rightly praise the Tath�gata in accordance with reality would speak.
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Wrong views are views unfounded in reality, causes delusion, attachments and suffering.