Mind's content and emotions
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Hi All,
This is just a sharing of my understanding only. Nothing definitive.
Emotion that we know of results from being absorbed/focus on the content of the mind. The content of the mind are the story, ideas and thinking. Depending on the content, we either reacte aversely or become attracted to it.
Anger (the emotion) is the result of disliking the content. This dislike is the desire of not wanting the content to happen the way it is.
Sadness (the emotion) is the result of feeling not being able to change the content. If the content is about a situation and the idea that one is unable to change it, the resultant emotion is sadness. Desire that are not met and content implies an unchangeable situation results in sadness.
Happiness (the emotion) is the result of having achieved the result shown in the content. Happiness is the temporary attainment of the desired as shown in the content
In all situations described above, desire are involved. Content >> Desire >> emotion.
According to the flow, the content is the first cause of the resultant emotion. Desire is formless, but can be felt when the emotion manifest.
Emotion involves physical sensation also. Specific Body parts tense or relax giving rise to bodily sensations that form part of the overall experience of the emotion.
If according to the cause-effect flow as i understand it, if contents are not becoming caught-up into, in theory the desire will not arise. And the subsequent emotion should not arise too. In another word, if awareness can learn not being caught-up by the contents of mind, emotion as we know it should not arise.
The resultant feeling of not being caught up in the mind's content is bliss. Whether bliss is another type of emotion or not is not important, though.
Note... if the Bliss becomes a content subject and is attached (desired) to, the cycle of emotion will restart again... as dictated by the flow cycle.
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From time to time, I've pondered how emotions arise.
Previously, I've come across the viewpoint that emotions arise regardless and so long as one doesn't follow after them with thoughts of resistance (mainly referring to negative emotions here), they will subside on their own. Resistance to negative emotion courses that very emotion to perpetuate.
What you're saying is more in line with what I'd always understood to be true - and which is also based on modern psychology - that thought must necessarily precede emotion. And you have also brought in the important understanding that it is the thought of desire/aversion that necessarily decides which type of emotion arises. (Did I understand what you're saying?)
Thanks for this sharing. It's illuminating...
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Simpo is definitely right... Emotions only arise when there is involvement in content, and contents are always imagined and not true. Especially, the contents of emotions always involvon of a personal self with vested interest at stake (fear - insecure about self-interest, desire - craving for self-interest, anger - aversion for self-interest, etc). Imagine you don't exist - what kind of problems can there be? That is why no-self realization can effectively cut off and attenuate such emotions. Fully awakened beings realize that the self and objects in the contents imagination are completely false and baseless... They no longer dwell in contents and constantly abides in the nondual, nonconceptual, direct, immediate mode of perception. All their actions arise nonconceptually and spontaneously as well with no emotional involvement.
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In short, it is because emotions have an utterly illusory basis (imagined contents) that they can be permanently cut off and attenuated through awakening. If not, if emotions had a physical or biological cause, then afflictions cannot be liberated.
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Emotions can be biological too. For example fear can also be induced by mind altering drugs. Even the body's fight or flight response can be induced by injecting adrenaline into a person.
They arise from prior causes/conditions and will cease. They are not controllable. Seeing them as impermanent and not self helps free one from their grip.
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They are not controllable (no agency) but they can be permanently atenuated by removing its root cause via wisdom. The root cause is ignorance, and ignorance is completely illusory. This is why an arahat is incapable of fear, anger, craving, agitation and so on. Even if a monster pounces on him, the arahat is incapable of fear. Even if an arahat falls from a thirty floor building, he is incapable of fear (there is a dhammapada verse about an arahat rushing down from a very high pole fearlessly and buddha comments that an arahat withh defilements removed is incapable of fear) Biological conditions are secondary conditions and not the primary cause. The primary cause is ignorance and the notion of 'I'. Drugs (e.g. Anti depressants) deal with secondary conditions but can never eliminate the root cause of afflictions.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
They are not controllable (no agency) but they can be permanently atenuated by removing its root cause via wisdom. The root cause is ignorance, and ignorance is completely illusory.
This is why an arahat is incapable of fear, anger, craving, agitation and so on. Even if a monster pounces on him, the arahat is incapable of fear. Even if an arahat falls from a thirty floor building, he is incapable of fear (there is a dhammapada verse about an arahat rushing down from a very high pole fearlessly and buddha comments that an arahat withh defilements removed is incapable of fear)
Biological conditions are secondary conditions and not the primary cause. The primary cause is ignorance and the notion of ‘I’. Drugs (e.g. Anti depressants) deal with secondary conditions but can never eliminate the root cause of afflictions.
Even biologically induced emotions may be attenuated?
The situations you mentioned above are what would conventionally induce fear (monster pouncing on an arhat, or arhat falling from a 30-storey building). But, I was just about to bring up situations like Post Natal Depression which is caused by hormonal imbalance and not necessarily caused by faulty thinking. And like what Pegembara said, what if someone were to inject adrenaline into an arhat? What then?
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Drugs and biological conditions cannot directly cause afflictive emotions because afflictive emotions require the delusory notion and sense of a self. If you are in a nondual, nonconceptual, direct, immediate mode of perception (NDNCDIMOP) of the sensate world as it is, such imaginary contents are completely absent, and will not arise, unless there are remnants of self-delusion that can give rise to imaginary contents and emotions (in which case one no longer experiences the NDNCDIMOP). The only discernable difference in experience is the way bodily sensations are felt. Usually a sickly man is more angry, simply because bodily sensations are more unpleasant than usual. However in NDNCDIMOP (which becomes the effortless, even perpetual mode of experience after anatta realization), there is only unpleasant bodily feeling but no emotions at all. The arhat will only experience difference in physical sensations. He may experience differences in the way thoughts formulate (maybe more alert, etc), but it will be impossible to give rise to afflictive emotions, fear, craving, etc. When afflictions are removed, it is impossible to have depression. Because removing affliction (removing root cause) is not as easy as taking pills (controlling secondary conditions), there is no other way around other psychiatric and psychotherapeutic methods to treat depression. You cannot offer Buddhism as a solution to someone's depression (long-term yes, short-term no) because it can take years of practice before one achieves liberation.
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Originally posted by simpo_:
Hi All,
This is just a sharing of my understanding only. Nothing definitive.
Emotion that we know of results from being absorbed/focus on the content of the mind. The content of the mind are the story, ideas and thinking. Depending on the content, we either reacte aversely or become attracted to it.
Anger (the emotion) is the result of disliking the content. This dislike is the desire of not wanting the content to happen the way it is.
Sadness (the emotion) is the result of feeling not being able to change the content. If the content is about a situation and the idea that one is unable to change it, the resultant emotion is sadness. Desire that are not met and content implies an unchangeable situation results in sadness.
Happiness (the emotion) is the result of having achieved the result shown in the content. Happiness is the temporary attainment of the desired as shown in the content
In all situations described above, desire are involved. Content >> Desire >> emotion.
According to the flow, the content is the first cause of the resultant emotion. Desire is formless, but can be felt when the emotion manifest.
Emotion involves physical sensation also. Specific Body parts tense or relax giving rise to bodily sensations that form part of the overall experience of the emotion.
If according to the cause-effect flow as i understand it, if contents are not becoming caught-up into, in theory the desire will not arise. And the subsequent emotion should not arise too. In another word, if awareness can learn not being caught-up by the contents of mind, emotion as we know it should not arise.
The resultant feeling of not being caught up in the mind's content is bliss. Whether bliss is another type of emotion or not is not important, though.
Note... if the Bliss becomes a content subject and is attached (desired) to, the cycle of emotion will restart again... as dictated by the flow cycle.
Hi. On a day to day, moment to moment basis, how do we stop ourselves at the content level and not let it evolve into desire and emotions?
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Originally posted by allkosong:
Hi. On a day to day, moment to moment basis, how do we stop ourselves at the content level and not let it evolve into desire and emotions?
IMO, before the insight of no-self, it is quite hard to not get caught at the content level. This is because, before the non-dual, non-conceptual experience/insight, one does not know how 'not getting caught' in the content is like.
Usually, at the onset of release/unattaching from the mind's content, a 'wave-like' sensation will be felt in the body and head area. Of course, you will still be fully awake... in fact you will be more awake than when caught in mind's content!
So, i strongly urge people to start practicing soon. BTW, having a discussion with one of my younger brother recently, I discovered that he has also realised 'no-self' and thus gain Stream-entry.
Wish that more people can get into stream-entry and start the ending of the rebirth cycle.
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i quite enjoy reading your posts... always very encouraging.
How did your brother discover 'no-self', can u share the process in detailed as a reference for us?
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Originally posted by realization:
And you have also brought in the important understanding that it is the thought of desire/aversion that necessarily decides which type of emotion arises. (Did I understand what you're saying?)
Yep, that's what i meant :)
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Originally posted by Dharmadhatu:
i quite enjoy reading your posts... always very encouraging.
How did your brother discover 'no-self', can u share the process in detailed as a reference for us?
My brother teaches Qi-gong and does meditation regularly. Those activities help.
Additionally, sometime we have discussions. When he was young, he had an experience of luminosity. Just like when i was young, I experienced great bliss when i first sat down to meditate. These experiences often spur people to want to find out more about spiritual paths.
As a general note, it can be said that the affinity to spirtual practice is strong possibly as a result of previous lives activities.
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Wow that is awesome... Is your brother familiar with Buddhist teachings or did he just discovered anatta on his own?
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Wow that is awesome… Is your brother familiar with Buddhist teachings or did he just discovered anatta on his own?
Yes, he is familiar with Buddhist teaching and we have discussions pertaining to the experiences of practitioners and the dynamics of the various experiences.
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Very interesting... I'm glad your family members are into this stuff... Not too common nowadays
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Regarding emotions... I have an analogy. When we fall asleep, owing to the belief that the dream character/self is real, and the dream tiger is real, we experience fear due to insecurity for the dream self. This is similar to in the waking state, owing to the view that there is a real self, and a real object, we dream/imagine unreal and fabricated contents or scenarios whereby a real self can get hurt or benefitted by a real object. The entire story is completely baseless to begin with (as illusory and baseless as the story of a dream self being attacked by the dream tiger thereby triggering fear). All the while not knowing the entire scene (experience in life) to be simply empty and vivid experience of mind's dream-like/illusory display (mind being empty of an entity called mind, which nevertheless is luminously clear and manifesting as diverse images). A person in an awakened state of consciousness is only cognizant of the true nature of reality, not imagination and contents which are baseless and false. The whole story is baseless, false, imagined. He is not cognizant of relative/conventional truths (conventional truths are deluded perceptions, not true), only the ultimate truth. A Buddha thus is incapable of having concepts (akin to falling into delusion) - his actions, speech and so on are completely nonconceptual and spontaneous. A Buddha does not experience contents and stories, only the one ultimate truth
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details on mind content can be found in 八识规矩颂 - basically is 阿赖耶识 - 去å�Žæ�¥å…ˆä½œä¸»å…¬. emotion is basically the 第å…识 and 第七识 http://baike.baidu.com/view/1845536.htm.
As you emotionally chant (å�—è–°æŒ�ç§�æ ¹èº«å™¨-buddha nature) on Amitofo, it will gradually rediscovering and attaining the truth of emptiness
. awesome skilfulness and expediency of Buddhas for complete liberation of all beings.
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Originally posted by Amitayus48:
details on mind content can be found in 八识规矩颂 - basically is 阿赖耶识 - 去å�Žæ�¥å…ˆä½œä¸»å…¬. emotion is basically the 第å…识 and 第七识 http://baike.baidu.com/view/1845536.htm.
As you emotionally chant (å�—è–°æŒ�ç§�æ ¹èº«å™¨-buddha nature) on Amitofo, it will gradually rediscovering and attaining the truth of emptiness
. awesome skilfulness and expediency of
Buddhas for complete liberation of all
beings.Actually Simpo is not talking about 8th consciousness contents. (As he said: The content of the mind are the story, ideas and thinking.)
The content he is talking about is the formation of imageries, concepts, which belongs to the 6th and 7th consciousness category. The 8th consciousness, being merely potential, has not manifested conception and subject-object duality, but is the basis (latent tendencies) for the manifestation of afflictive arisings.
However, it is true that the only way we can effect the manifestation of 7th and 6th consciousness is to uproot the latent tendencies of the 8th consciousness. The purification of latent tendencies are effected only through the arising of prajna wisdom.
As for chanting, chanting works as a counteractive agent by building a good conditioning, momentum, a force imprinted into the eighth consciousness itself that counteracts the bad tendencies (though does not uproot ignorance and afflictions).
As an example, if you chant until the momentum builds up that you continue chanting the whole day into the night, even if you have nightmare, your chanting will be able to allow you not to be affected by the dream content. You will simply focus on the chanting.
However even if you reach this level of practice, what you are doing is dealing with the subconscious tendencies through creating a positive momentum, but not yet removing fundamental ignorance.
To remove fundamental ignorance, you need to realize your true nature. As for how to effect the realization of true nature, you need investigation.
I spoke to a Zen priest (the one who I said recently realized anatta - http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2011/10/zen-exploration-of-bahiya-sutta.html) recently.
He told me that he recently has been guiding a student... from scratch (no prior meditation practice whatsoever). In less than three months, she was able to have an initial realization of her Buddha-nature.
His method for her is simple... he asked her to pick a mantra, or just "Namo Amituofuo" will do, but then one is not to repeat it thousands of time quickly. On the contrary, one is to raise it and rest in silence as long as possible, getting back to it only when one feels distracted by thoughts or other sources of distraction. This is very simple and quickly leads to a state of deep stillness from which one can easily recognize one's luminous nature with correct guidance.
Of course, being in a state of stillness does not mean realizing your true nature will occur. A state of stillness can simply be a state of shamatha, or calm abiding. If you cultivate calm abiding for a million years, but there is no investigation whatsoever, realization will not arise.
But that state of deep stillness is like clearing the clouds blocking the sun. When you clear the clouds, look at your true nature. It is this vividly shining presence-awareness-existence. There is an undeniable presence of existence, consciousness. You must trace that mantra to the Source (Who is chanting? Who am I?)
As someone said (not the Zen priest but someone else whom I forgot who), "Imagine a torch shining on a wall...The torch symbolises the SEEING, and the light which emanates from the torch and hits the wall symbolises the thoughts. The problem is that you are trying to find the torch, (ie: the SEEING), but you are looking for it on the wall, (ie: in the thoughts). Also, thoughts can happen thick and fast and can be quite erratic... so not only are you looking in the wrong place, but you are chasing a moving target. A mantra at least steadies the appearance of the thoughts. It's like steadying the light on the wall, so you have a better chance of tracing the beam back to its source, but never forget, only the torch (the SEEING) is the source. The mantra is nothing but a thought, an appearance that has no independent nature, repeated. However, as I have said, whilst a mantra can help on the so called 'search', it is not actually necessary. Knowledge is the DIRECT method.
No techniques are needed. The SEEING ( the ordinary everyday awareness ) does not need to do anything to BE, to exist. Any techniques can only be on the level of thought, and therefore are outside of the only reality which is the SEEING. The SEEING is NEVER not there, it is ALWAYS seeing the thoughts, no matter what they may be. It is always aware of everything, it cannot under any circumstances not be there, you can't lose it. So just BE IT. HAVE A SENSE OF IDENTITY WITH IT AND NOTHING ELSE. You ARE the torch !"
Even after this realization, it does not mean the latent tendencies are uprooted, it will take a journey to refine the insights and clear the afflictive tendencies.
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i think i know what luminosity is. but there is no the 'Eureka' state. i read in your ebook that if we are not doing the 'who am i' self-inquiry, there will be merely a gradual progression without the 'Eureka'. Is that right? Because of lack of the 'Eureka' state, i think i am still differentiating between luminosity and non-luminosity although i know theoretically tat all is phenomenon is luminosity
mantras help me too. For eg. when i chant Vajrasattva mantra, i find that it is much much easier to recognise luminosity. That is due to the purifying effects of the mantra...
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Originally posted by Dharmadhatu:
i think i know what luminosity is. but there is no the 'Eureka' state. i read in your ebook that if we are not doing the 'who am i' self-inquiry, there will be merely a gradual progression without the 'Eureka'. Is that right? Because of lack of the 'Eureka' state, i think i am still differentiating between luminosity and non-luminosity although i know theoretically tat all is phenomenon is luminosity
mantras help me too. For eg. when i chant Vajrasattva mantra, i find that it is much much easier to recognise luminosity. That is due to the purifying effects of the mantra...
Can you describe your experience of luminosity in phenomenological terms?
Yes indeed, there is a difference between experience and realization.
I had glimpses and experiences for about 3 years (since 2007), and it gets clearer as time passes... yet no realization, until the self-inquiry led to the eureka realization in Feb '10.
But that is one of the direct path methods I used, one which I am familiar... there are other direct path methods. The gradual way is to stabilize the experience until realization occurs naturally.
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Even the simple mantra Om Ah Hum or even the Om can invoke a sense of Presence.
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all i just can say that everything that is experienced contrasts or stands out or like becomes more tangible but there is of course still the duality. sometimes it will seem also that there is a kind of whiteness or brightness visually. But that is not the important point.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Even the simple mantra Om Ah Hum or even the Om can invoke a sense of Presence.
For the Vajrasattva mantra, its effects also last post-chanting. It is also prescribed (i read somewhere) for those who are practising on mind-nature and still can't get much results. As it is due to our obscurations.