Tranquil Calm
-
The Buddha teaches:
These four types of individuals are to be found existing in the world. Which four?
There is the case of the individual who has attained internal tranquility of awareness, but not insight into phenomena through heightened discernment. There is... the individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, but not internal tranquility of awareness. There is... the individual who has attained neither internal tranquility of awareness nor insight into phenomena through heightened discernment. And there is... the individual who has attained both internal tranquility of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.
The individual who has attained internal tranquility of awareness, but not insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, should approach an individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment... and ask him: 'How should fabrications be regarded? How should they be investigated? How should they be seen with insight?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'Fabrications should be regarded in this way... investigated in this way... seen in this way with insight.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquility of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.
As for the individual who has attained insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, but not internal tranquility of awareness, he should approach an individual who has attained internal tranquility of awareness... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'The mind should be steadied in this way... made to settle down in this way... unified in this way... concentrated in this way.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquility of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.
As for the individual who has attained neither internal tranquility of awareness nor insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, he should approach an individual who has attained both internal tranquility of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment... and ask him, 'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated? How should fabrications be regarded? How should they be investigated? How should they be seen with insight?' The other will answer in line with what he has seen & experienced: 'The mind should be steadied in this way... made to settle down in this way... unified in this way... concentrated in this way. Fabrications should be regarded in this way... investigated in this way... seen in this way with insight.' Then eventually he [the first] will become one who has attained both internal tranquility of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.
As for the individual who has attained both internal tranquility of awareness & insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, his duty is to make an effort in establishing ('tuning') those very same skillful qualities to a higher degree for the ending of the effluents*.— AN 4.94*Effluents: Mental effluent, pollutant, or fermentation. Four qualities — sensuality (sensual attachments/cravings and aversion), views (false views pertaining to self and other related extreme views), craving for becoming, and ignorance — that "flow out" of the mind and create the flood of the round of death and rebirth.
Here's a related conversation between Thusness and I about five years ago:Session Start: Saturday, August 26, 2006(6:52 PM) Thusness: about the mahamudra, some say its the 4th turning.(6:53 PM) Thusness: But it is the experience of total Presence.(6:53 PM) AEN: meaning?(6:53 PM) AEN: u mean 4th turning = total presence(6:53 PM) AEN: wats the diff between 3rd and 4th(6:54 PM) Thusness: the teaching is to directly experience the buddha nature.(6:54 PM) Thusness: like zen to me.(6:54 PM) AEN: oic.. but isnt it same as 3rd which also about buddha nature(6:55 PM) Thusness: yeah(6:55 PM) Thusness: so i don't see a diff.(6:55 PM) AEN: hahaha(6:55 PM) AEN: oic(6:55 PM) Thusness: wonder why some call it 4th turning.(6:55 PM) Thusness: to me, there is no real mark of distinction.(6:56 PM) Thusness: but because it is a tibetan practices, i do not really know is there any hidden teaching. From the books I have read, it is just the direct experience of our Pristine Awareness.(6:57 PM) Thusness: I do not advice ppl to go into experiencing of Buddha's nature directly.(6:57 PM) Thusness: one should always start from developing the qualities of the mind...(6:58 PM) AEN: icic... paramitas?(6:58 PM) Thusness: to experience the deep calmness resulting from settling our thoughts(6:58 PM) Thusness: still our mind(6:58 PM) Thusness: then wisdom(6:58 PM) AEN: oic(6:58 PM) AEN: is stilling our mind considered shamatha?(6:59 PM) Thusness: not exactly but it can be by any practices as long as it lead us to the experience of this calmness(6:59 PM) Thusness: mindfulness of breath(6:59 PM) Thusness: or mindfulness itself or chanting(6:59 PM) Thusness: one must experience this calmness first.(6:59 PM) Thusness: because it is the 'ground' that strengthen other experience(7:00 PM) Thusness: however some ppl are vested with the conditions to experience the end-result first, then they have to return to these practices to stabilize the experience.(7:00 PM) Thusness: like experiencing our buddha nature directly.(7:01 PM) Thusness: then the entire life becomes the unfolding and understand of this experience.(7:01 PM) Thusness: like those experiencing "I AMness".(7:01 PM) Thusness: it is a mistaken identity(7:02 PM) Thusness: due to our karmic propensities, they do cannot discern the nature of that experience.(7:02 PM) Thusness: however after many years of contemplation, they are able to have deeper glimpse of it.(7:03 PM) Thusness: and the next stage is the experience of no-self to further refine their understanding.(7:04 PM) Thusness: the mind then is experienced as a crystal clear mirror, there is no-I. Then emptiness must step in to know that there is no mirror in the first place reflecting anything.(7:04 PM) Thusness: the manifestation is the arising is the buddha's nature.(7:05 PM) Thusness: there is no mirror bright at all, the arising is the buddha nature itself. Samsara is Nirvana.(7:05 PM) Thusness: even with this illumination, one is not able to overcome the defilement, our karmic propensities.(7:05 PM) Thusness: because they do not start from the perfection of the calmness, there is no strength(7:06 PM) Thusness: they are unable to 'control' their thoughts (meaning settle their thoughts)(7:07 PM) Thusness: when we reached a state of deep calmness and we turn into it into mindfulness, then there is the experience of blissfulness, clarity and vitality and wisdom(7:07 PM) Thusness: stilling the body and mind only result in a deep and stable calmness that gather strength.(7:08 PM) Thusness: for the other quality to arise, it needs the direct experience and intuitive wisdom(7:09 PM) Thusness: that is why i told longchen to eliminate the presence and start experience the deep calmness by letting go.(7:09 PM) Thusness: the letting go is to settle the mind till he is about to have mastery over the thought patterns(7:10 PM) Thusness: this is very important for progress.(7:10 PM) Thusness: direct perception is crucial, because buddha nature cannot be understood conceptually(7:11 PM) Thusness: but without the ground of deep calmness, there is no strength. And one might suffer because we do not know how to deal with these experience.(7:38 PM) Thusness: "Generally, as in the Theravadin Buddhist tradition and the Samkhya yogic schools, whenever you enter this state of unmanifest absorption, it burns away certain linger afflictions and sources of ignoance. Each time you fully enter this state, more of these afflictions are burned away. and after a certain number and type of these entranes - often four- you have burned away everything there is to ob(7:38 PM) Thusness: who said this?(7:42 PM) AEN: ken wilber(7:42 PM) AEN: a brief history of everyting(7:42 PM) Thusness: not bad.(7:43 PM) Thusness: about the emptiness he is toking about, is the no-self. That is manifestation itself.(9:49 PM) Thusness: u got the book "a history of everything' ?(10:03 PM) AEN: borrowed from library(11:01 PM) Thusness: yeah...i think it is okie to keep a book of ken wilber. I like his description of the no-self.(11:01 PM) Thusness: just do not know the strength.(11:07 PM) Thusness: when there is the experience of everything as pristine awareness, there cannot be a 'self' or any sense of 'I'. To have strength of this experience, the deep sense of calmness from complete stillness of the body as well as the mind are the conditions. The problems is if we did not go through the proper stage, we will based on or unknowingly exercise our intellect to capture that experience.(11:07 PM) Thusness: it is the quality of the mind that is important, not the content of it. The quality must come from just the sensing, nothing about intellect.(11:11 PM) Thusness: after longchen has more experience of the no-self nature of the pristine awareness, the next step is to gather strength through experiencing that sense of calmness and tranquillity and then fuse his anatta experience into this tranquil calm.(11:11 PM) Thusness: then experience the total dissolving of the consciousness of Presence into deep sleep.(11:11 PM) Thusness: Dare to face the great death and be nothing.(11:11 PM) AEN: wat great death(11:13 PM) Thusness: merge completely into the place as if we were never there b4....love and fuse completely into nothingness....don't worry about anything...total wakefulness when waking and complete death in deep sleep. This is true presence according to conditions.(11:13 PM) Thusness: the mental states of sleep must emerge before we become no one there.(11:14 PM) Thusness: until this is perfectly clear...means u can go into deep sleep by controlling the thought pattern (slowing down our thoughts)...we will enter into sleep.(11:14 PM) Thusness: that is why i said when some one say that they are so awareness that brings them beyond the night is not true experience.(11:15 PM) Thusness: because there is no control of thoughts at all.(11:15 PM) Thusness: this is due to the lack of practice or overlook the practice of deep calmness.(11:15 PM) Thusness: that provides the ground of controlling thoughts pattern.(11:16 PM) Thusness: this is very very important.(11:16 PM) Thusness: in fact that is always the base of practice.(11:16 PM) Thusness: that is way the simplest way of keep the mind is taught to all levels.(11:16 PM) Thusness: chanting first even if one does not have the capacity of understanding anything.(11:16 PM) Thusness: any form of practice must start from there....that is the best.(11:17 PM) Thusness: then progress slowly.(11:17 PM) AEN: any form of practise must start from chanting?(11:18 PM) Thusness: however if the capacity and conditions are already there and so close to experience the more profound experience of our pristine awareness, we have to lead one to the experience first then later slowly lead him into the experience of the tranquil calmness to stabilize the experience.(11:19 PM) Thusness: no..any form of experience must lead one to experience the tranquil calm, it comes from keeping the mind still. But stilling of mind comes easier from stilling the body first.(11:19 PM) AEN: oh icic(11:20 PM) AEN: how does one still the body?(11:20 PM) Thusness: but this state will not experience the luminous clarity of our pristine awareness(11:20 PM) Thusness: the posture is very important(11:20 PM) Thusness: and the watch our breath is best to me...(11:21 PM) Thusness: mindfulness has the effect of luminosity and calmness(11:21 PM) Thusness: ingenious way towards enlightenment(11:22 PM) Thusness: but to come to the understanding of everything as awareness like the experience of ken wilber requires deep yuan.(11:22 PM) Thusness: this is one thing that puzzles me.(11:23 PM) AEN: oic..(11:23 PM) AEN: why puzzle you?(11:23 PM) AEN: what kind of deep yuan? yuan with wat(11:23 PM) Thusness: because i also realised that even when one is deep into the practice of mindfulness, one need not experience our pristine awareness(11:23 PM) AEN: oic(11:24 PM) AEN: ya and some ppl who never cultivated anything can become enlightened after hearing some sutra verse(11:24 PM) Thusness: or see that our pristine awareness is everything and there is really nothing else. It is the only reality. There is absolutely no one in between.(11:24 PM) AEN: when chuang tzu said tao is everywhere, is his understanding different?(11:25 PM) Thusness: hm...a lil different.(11:25 PM) Thusness: there is another experience when no-self is experience...that is the vitality aspect(11:26 PM) Thusness: that is the experience of life giver presence everywhere(11:26 PM) AEN: oic..(11:26 PM) AEN: like casino king like that?(11:26 PM) AEN: then chuang tzu is something like tat also?(11:26 PM) Thusness: that connect us to everything(11:27 PM) Thusness: when we experience anatta to a very deep state, luminosity and vitality through emptiness nature is experience as one.(11:27 PM) AEN: oic(11:28 PM) Thusness: zhuang zhi is not keen in expressing luminosity aspect but rather how the tao is expressed in its profundity.(11:29 PM) Thusness: i do not like to tok about "I AM"(11:29 PM) Thusness: but "I AM" is a very important state.(11:29 PM) Thusness: however i tok about no-self and emptiness and our pristine awareness...(11:29 PM) Thusness: most of the time the happening, nothing about the source...(11:30 PM) Thusness: and the spontaneous arising later as the expression of luminosity and vitality(11:30 PM) Thusness: but never the 'self' or 'i' or anything.(11:31 PM) Thusness: only for the explanation we spoke of the Self' when comparing to the tathagatagarbatha sutra and vedanta teachings.(11:31 PM) Thusness: similarly Tao Te Jing is also the same....(11:31 PM) Thusness: just the expression of Tao(11:31 PM) Thusness: the Self-So(11:31 PM) Thusness: the naturalness(11:31 PM) Thusness: the non action(11:31 PM) Thusness: the depth(11:32 PM) Thusness: never the who or where or what(11:32 PM) Thusness: this is how lao tzi express it...just the way(11:33 PM) Thusness: Lao-Tse never tok about self realization(11:33 PM) Thusness: only taoist in the later years(11:34 PM) Thusness: when they got affected by buddhism(11:34 PM) Thusness: seeing our nature to equate it with tao.(11:35 PM) Thusness: however for one that already attained, one can speak from the Tao level penetrating heaven, human and earth(11:35 PM) Thusness: there is no diff.(11:37 PM) Thusness: meditative posture is really important.(11:37 PM) Thusness: to still the body(11:37 PM) Thusness: when we are young, we should keep this posture(11:38 PM) Thusness: and use it to help keep our thoughts(11:38 PM) Thusness: ur must experience the entire body as no more there, no more a hindrance and completely still just like the time u lost the sense of ur hands.(11:39 PM) Thusness: except that it is ur entire body this time.(11:39 PM) AEN: oic..(11:39 PM) AEN: lost the sense of my hands?(11:39 PM) Thusness: ur lower half of ur body ....something like that...when u tell me..(11:39 PM) Thusness: hehehe(11:39 PM) AEN: oh(11:39 PM) Thusness: forgotten(11:39 PM) AEN: ya(11:39 PM) AEN: not hand.. lower half of body(11:39 PM) AEN: but only for a short while(11:39 PM) AEN: then meditation time over(11:39 PM) AEN: haha(11:40 PM) Thusness: yeah i know...how can it for long lah(11:40 PM) AEN: i tink if i continue(11:40 PM) Thusness: u think u r me ah(11:40 PM) AEN: the whole body will become like that(11:40 PM) Thusness: lol(11:40 PM) AEN: hahahaha(11:40 PM) AEN: oh its over not bcos i couldnt sustain but bcos the meditation session was over(11:41 PM) Thusness: lol(11:46 PM) Thusness: u must learn how to keep ur mind in deep calmness even if luminosity din arise, the calmness is important...it is a form of stillness(11:47 PM) Thusness: our entire life is about this thought pattern...(11:47 PM) Thusness: watch it.(11:47 PM) Thusness: until complete stillness then we can experience the clarity of luminosity and no-self(11:48 PM) Thusness: even if one having experience of our nature, without the strength, it is useless(11:48 PM) Thusness: a person that can keep his mind in chanting is even better. At least that helps him during death.(11:49 PM) AEN: oic..(11:51 PM) Thusness: she must gather strength in the stilling the mind and experience the deep tranquil calm and later fuse the experience of Presence into it.(11:52 PM) Thusness: she will not be able to understand the dreamless sleep state.(11:52 PM) Thusness: she will suffer from the Deep Presence because it is still using intellect to keep the Presence.(11:53 PM) Thusness: the experience of Presence is true experience but it can only be stabilized from the experience of stilling the mind.(11:53 PM) AEN: but she say usually she doesnt have tat kind of thoughts and cld remain in thoughtless state for very long time leh.. and seldom have tat kind of situation(11:53 PM) Thusness: when ppl say stilling, it is not true stilling...it is the suspension of thoughts and conceptualization during waking state.(11:54 PM) Thusness: when experiencing Presence.(11:54 PM) Thusness: This is not the tranquil calm i m toking about.(11:54 PM) Thusness: it is a state where we have a sort of mastery of thoughts(11:55 PM) Thusness: remember this hah(11:56 PM) AEN: o ok(11:57 PM) Thusness: u know about delta wave right?(11:57 PM) AEN: brain waves?(11:57 PM) Thusness: yeah(11:57 PM) AEN: ya(11:57 PM) Thusness: the deep sleep phase(11:57 PM) AEN: http://buddhism.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=147756(11:57 PM) AEN: lol(11:57 PM) Thusness: that is directly related to thought pattern.(11:57 PM) AEN: eh the image no more(11:57 PM) AEN: icic(11:58 PM) Thusness: image no more is different...though there is no images...eheheh(11:58 PM) Thusness: imagelessness is related to the deep Presence(11:58 PM) AEN: no i mean the website(11:58 PM) Thusness: it is the experience of pure awareness(11:58 PM) AEN: picture gone(11:58 PM) AEN: icic..(11:58 PM) Thusness: ic(11:59 PM) AEN: hmm so during sleep one must eliminate presence?(11:59 PM) Thusness: no...(11:59 PM) Thusness: Presence cannot be eliminated(11:59 PM) AEN: icic(11:59 PM) AEN: ok(12:00 AM) Thusness: it is just a way to tell someone to rid the attachment(12:00 AM) Thusness: when the mind is still clouded, the alertness is gone(12:00 AM) Thusness: but the wakefulness is not the sort of wakefulness that we think(12:01 AM) Thusness: sleep is the experience of absence(12:01 AM) Thusness: nothingness as an object(12:01 AM) Thusness: means awareness experiencing "nothingness" as an object.(12:02 AM) Thusness: when conditions of senses is too subtle and the thought pattern come to a rest...(12:02 AM) Thusness: what is the thought pattern, actually it is a sense of 'tense'(12:03 AM) AEN: oic..(12:04 AM) Thusness: how many hours ur teacher chen meditate a day?(12:04 AM) Thusness: in one go(12:04 AM) AEN: im not sure leh... i tink i remembered wrongly, maybe not 6 hours... but i know alot(12:05 AM) AEN: maybe is 6 hours.. i tink i heard tat from my mom but dunnu whether got remember wrongly or she said wrongly(12:05 AM) Thusness: wah...ic.(12:05 AM) AEN: bcos he no longer working(12:05 AM) Thusness: 6 hours a day or one sitting(12:05 AM) Thusness: icic(12:05 AM) AEN: now he lives in his dharma center(12:05 AM) AEN: erm one sitting.. maybe not la(12:05 AM) AEN: i mean everyday(12:05 AM) AEN: maybe he split into few sessions(12:06 AM) Thusness: ic(12:06 AM) Thusness: otherwise that is quite long(12:06 AM) AEN: icic(12:07 AM) Thusness: when i meditate, i will do a yogic posture to straighten my back first.(12:07 AM) Thusness: quite a difficult posture...(12:07 AM) Thusness: not suitable for u(12:07 AM) AEN: huh how(12:07 AM) AEN: oic(12:08 AM) AEN: wat kind of yogic posture(12:09 AM) Thusness: it is left hand pulling the big toe of my right leg and right hand pulling the big toe of my left leg from behind my back in full lotus posture(12:09 AM) AEN: wahhh(12:09 AM) AEN: first part ok second part dunnu how to do(12:10 AM) AEN: lol(12:10 AM) Thusness: then i raise my head and breath and slowly release it and relax into mindfulness of breath first(12:10 AM) Thusness: lol(12:10 AM) AEN: oic..(12:10 AM) AEN: where u learnt tat from(12:10 AM) AEN: eh actually i can do(12:10 AM) AEN: quite easy. if in full lotus posture(12:10 AM) AEN: if not impossible haha(12:11 AM) Thusness: huh...u can do it?(12:11 AM) AEN: yea quite easy for me(12:11 AM) Thusness: sit in full lotus posture first(12:11 AM) Thusness: then cross both ur arms from behind(12:11 AM) AEN: just now i tried in non-full lotus like normal seating and feel like my hand breaking haha(12:12 AM) AEN: icic(12:12 AM) Thusness: from behind leh(12:12 AM) AEN: yea i know lol(12:12 AM) AEN: but i guess only works for full lotus seaters like me... many ppl cant even do full lotus(12:12 AM) Thusness: then left hand grab ur left leg big toe(12:12 AM) AEN: actually no need.. half lotus can liao(12:13 AM) AEN: oic(12:13 AM) Thusness: then right hand grab ur right left big toe(12:13 AM) Thusness: u know what i mean or not(12:13 AM) Thusness: because u sit in full lotus posture, ur left leg is at ur right side(12:14 AM) AEN: then right hand grab ur right left big toe --> sorry u typed wrongly?(12:14 AM) AEN: right hand grab what?(12:14 AM) AEN: oh(12:14 AM) AEN: okok(12:14 AM) Thusness: right hand grab ur right leg big toe from behind(12:14 AM) AEN: yup(12:15 AM) Thusness: then slot ur left hand from behind ur back and grab ur left left big toe(12:15 AM) AEN: ok.. doable(12:15 AM) Thusness: then pull the two big toes and lift ur head(12:16 AM) Thusness: and breath deeply...inhale and exhale 10 times(12:17 AM) AEN: ok(12:17 AM) Thusness: then relax ur go into half lotus posture and still ur back and meditate....relax and feel the breath and heart beats(12:17 AM) AEN: icic..(12:17 AM) AEN: half lotus ? can full lotus? lol(12:17 AM) Thusness: can(12:17 AM) AEN: ok(12:17 AM) AEN: u sit half or full lotus(12:17 AM) Thusness: u meditate in full lotus posture?(12:17 AM) AEN: ya(12:17 AM) Thusness: i still in half lotus posture(12:17 AM) AEN: icic(12:18 AM) Thusness: straighten ur back when u meditate. This is a good exercise.(12:18 AM) AEN: icic(12:18 AM) AEN: yup(12:19 AM) Thusness: u get use to stilling on flat floor or with a cushion?(12:20 AM) AEN: something like cushion but higher and slanted.. suited for meditation(12:21 AM) AEN: and chanting(12:21 AM) Thusness: how long did ur teacher tell u to sit?(12:22 AM) AEN: last time she mention those who have 'chuan fa' should have the habit to sit everyday at least 30 min(12:22 AM) Thusness: what is chuan fa?(12:22 AM) Thusness: to preach?(12:22 AM) AEN: oh as in receive dharma transmission.. from teacher chen(12:22 AM) AEN: no no(12:22 AM) AEN: hahahaha(12:23 AM) Thusness: ??(12:23 AM) Thusness: meaning ur teacher chen dharma transmission require ppl to sit for half an hour of meditation?(12:26 AM) Thusness: sitting meditation is important, it will help u still ur mind and heighten ur awareness(12:29 AM) Thusness: u must learn to still ur body first, the experience similar to the lower half of ur body must be extend to the whole body.(12:29 AM) AEN: oic(12:29 AM) AEN: must i reach some sort of jhana experience first for tat to happen?(12:29 AM) Thusness: it is often easier the first time...hehe....(12:30 AM) AEN: how come(12:30 AM) AEN: hahaha(12:30 AM) Thusness: then when u are able to still ur body, just motionless and when u sit, its is stable and still(12:30 AM) Thusness: it then comes to the mind(12:31 AM) Thusness: to watch the breath and settle ur thoughts(12:31 AM) Thusness: practice this until u can calm ur thoughts(12:32 AM) Thusness: through ur breath(12:32 AM) Thusness: once u r able to still ur thoughts or settle ur thoughts, then start to be aware....(12:33 AM) Thusness: until u feel the full presence of ur sensation, taste, touch..etc(12:34 AM) Thusness: sense them....(12:34 AM) Thusness: if possible contemplate on what buddhagosha said(12:35 AM) Thusness: only the thinking, no thinker(12:35 AM) Thusness: the taste, no one tasting(12:35 AM) Thusness: till directness arises(12:35 AM) Thusness: keep practicing this if possible in the morning...heehe or afternoon...not night.(12:35 AM) AEN: why not night(12:35 AM) AEN: cos tired?(12:36 AM) Thusness: no good(12:36 AM) Thusness: only in the morning or evening(12:36 AM) AEN: y not night.. lol(12:36 AM) Thusness: till u r able to control ur thought pattern(12:36 AM) AEN: oic(12:37 AM) Thusness: at night just relax and do what u do...lol...irc...msn...forum.(12:37 AM) AEN: lol ok(12:37 AM) Thusness: during waking state, practice mindfulness(12:38 AM) Thusness: when ur feet touches the floor...(12:38 AM) Thusness: when ur hand touches anything...spend time...just like what eckhart tolle said in the power of now and a new earth.(12:38 AM) Thusness: when u swallow ur saliva.(12:39 AM) Thusness: feel the sensation completely...(12:39 AM) Thusness: then relax and don't practice that at night..until morning....till one day u tell me u know what has thought pattern got to do with calmness(12:40 AM) Thusness: and how awareness is being misidentified with self and what are the relationships(12:40 AM) Thusness: what is bliss and clarity(12:41 AM) Thusness: then when u experience no-self and our pristine awareness and clearly know what is awareness, tell me why is it everything...(12:42 AM) Thusness: challenging and going beyond thought can be a painful experience if not practiced correctly.(12:43 AM) Thusness: because we have been using thoughts and it will come(12:43 AM) Thusness: so do not under estimate it(12:44 AM) Thusness: exercise more....(12:44 AM) Thusness: a healthy body for a healthy mind(12:44 AM) Thusness: it will help ur practice(12:45 AM) Thusness: when u r able to experience directly, tell me about it(12:45 AM) Thusness: when u r able to settle ur thoughts, tell me also...(12:46 AM) Thusness: then go to ur centre and engage in activities to keep in touch with dharma.(12:46 AM) AEN: icic..(12:46 AM) AEN: ok(12:48 AM) Thusness: yeah...in meditation, content of the mind is not important, it is the quality of the mind(12:48 AM) Thusness: peace, bliss, tranquillity, calmness are not content(12:49 AM) Thusness: even in deep relaxation, u do not want to chat in ur mind, u simply let go(12:49 AM) AEN: oic(12:49 AM) AEN: ya(12:50 AM) Thusness: the content and meaning isn't important at all(12:50 AM) Thusness: u don't have to understand anything(12:50 AM) Thusness: nothing to understand at all.(12:50 AM) Thusness: so don't worry(12:50 AM) Thusness: just the sensation(12:50 AM) Thusness: the raw sensation(12:50 AM) AEN: oic(12:51 AM) Thusness: but for start, u will contemplate(12:51 AM) Thusness: what is no-self(12:51 AM) Thusness: what is directness(12:51 AM) Thusness: what are words(12:51 AM) AEN: before meditation?(12:51 AM) Thusness: during meditation, u will sure ask one...(12:52 AM) AEN: oh ok(12:52 AM) AEN: icic(12:52 AM) Thusness: it is okie...but start with the calming the mind first(12:52 AM) Thusness: before ur contemplate(12:52 AM) Thusness: when u contemplate, u can also be mindful(12:52 AM) AEN: icic(12:52 AM) Thusness: the two can go hand in hand(12:52 AM) Thusness: it doesn't matter(12:53 AM) Thusness: when u experience directness, concepts and thoughts will be replaced with directness gradually(12:53 AM) AEN: icic..(12:53 AM) Thusness: but u must precede with mindfulness of breath to settle the thoughts first(12:53 AM) Thusness: to have mastery over thoughts(12:54 AM) Thusness: or the ability to settle thoughts through ur breath(12:54 AM) AEN: icic..(12:55 AM) Thusness: when is ur exams?(12:55 AM) AEN: like over 2 weeks from now(12:55 AM) Thusness: u better start studying...(12:55 AM) Thusness: lol(12:55 AM) AEN: yea i know haha(12:56 AM) AEN: ok gtg.. gd nite(12:56 AM) Thusness: nite -
This is valuable. Really thanks!
-
Regarding the chanting mentioned above. - Is it verbal chanting, or can it be silent chanting? (I usually chant silently.) - I can't help but feel I have to place my attention somewhere even when chanting. So where can I place my attention; the forehead, the nose, the lips, the ears... where?
-
1) Either. I seldom chant nowadays, but I prefer to chant aloud when alone, but with others just chant silently.
2) Pay attention to the chanting voice.
-
why not meditate at night? can explain?
-
Thusness told me, "Because of you lah, not to everyone" lol so the advice is referring to me.
I still meditate at night at times.
-
Dhamma
translated from the Pali byThanissaro BhikkhuThen a certain monk went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, "'One who dwells in the Dhamma, one who dwells in the Dhamma': thus it is said, lord. To what extent is a bhikkhu one who dwells in the Dhamma?"
"Monk, there is the case where a monk studies the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions.[1] He spends the day in Dhamma-study. He neglects seclusion. He doesn't commit himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who is keen on study, not one who dwells in the Dhamma.
"Then there is the case where a monk takes the Dhamma as he has heard & studied it and teaches it in full detail to others. He spends the day in Dhamma-description. He neglects seclusion. He doesn't commit himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who is keen on description, not one who dwells in the Dhamma.
"Then there is the case where a monk takes the Dhamma as he has heard & studied it and recites it in full detail. He spends the day in Dhamma-recitation. He neglects seclusion. He doesn't commit himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who is keen on recitation, not one who dwells in the Dhamma.
"Then there is the case where a monk takes the Dhamma as he has heard & studied it and thinks about it, evaluates it, and examines it with his intellect. He spends the day in Dhamma-thinking. He neglects seclusion. He doesn't commit himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who is keen on thinking, not one who dwells in the Dhamma.
"Then there is the case where a monk studies the Dhamma: dialogues, narratives of mixed prose and verse, explanations, verses, spontaneous exclamations, quotations, birth stories, amazing events, question & answer sessions. He doesn't spend the day in Dhamma-study. He doesn't neglect seclusion. He commits himself to internal tranquillity of awareness. This is called a monk who dwells in the Dhamma.
"Now, monk, I have taught you the person who is keen on study, the one who is keen on description, the one who is keen on recitation, the one who is keen on thinking, and the one who dwells in the Dhamma. Whatever a teacher should do — seeking the welfare of his disciples, out of sympathy for them — that have I done for you. Over there are the roots of trees; over there, empty dwellings. Practice jhana, monk. Don't be heedless. Don't later fall into regret. This is our message to you."
Note
- 1.
- The earliest classifications of the Buddha's teachings.
See also: AN 7.64
-
AN 10.54PTS: A v 98Samatha Sutta: With Regard to Tranquilitytranslated from the Pali byThanissaro Bhikkhu
"Even if a monk is not skilled in the ways of the minds of others,[1] he should train himself: 'I will be skilled in reading my own mind.'
"And how is a monk skilled in reading his own mind? Imagine a young woman — or man — fond of adornment, examining the image of her own face in a bright, clean mirror or bowl of clear water: If she saw any dirt or blemish there, she would try to remove it. If she saw no dirt or blemish there, she would be pleased, her resolves fulfilled: 'How fortunate I am! How clean I am!' In the same way, a monk's self-examination is very productive in terms of skillful qualities:[2] 'Am I one who achieves internal tranquility of awareness, or am I one who does not achieve internal tranquility of awareness? Am I one who achieves insight into phenomena through heightened discernment, or am I one who does not achieve insight into phenomena through heightened discernment?"
"If, on examination, he knows, 'I am one who achieves internal tranquility of awareness but not insight into phenomena through heightened discernment,' then his duty is to make an effort for the maintenance of internal tranquility of awareness and for insight into phenomena through heightened discernment. At a later time he will then be one who achieves both internal tranquility of awareness and insight into phenomena through heightened discernment.
"But if, on examination, the monk knows, 'I am one who achieves insight into phenomena through heightened discernment but not internal tranquility of awareness,' then his duty is to make an effort for the maintenance of insight into phenomena through heightened discernment and for internal tranquility of awareness. At a later time he will then be one who achieves both insight into phenomena through heightened discernment and internal tranquility of awareness.
"But if, on examination, the monk knows, 'I am one who achieves neither internal tranquility of awareness nor insight into phenomena through heightened discernment,' then he should put forth extra desire, effort, diligence, endeavor, relentlessness, mindfulness, & alertness for gaining those very same skillful qualities. Just as when a person whose turban or head was on fire would put forth extra desire, effort, diligence, endeavor, relentlessness, mindfulness, & alertness to put out the fire on his turban or head; in the same way, the monk should put forth extra desire, effort, diligence, endeavor, relentlessness, mindfulness, & alertness for gaining those very same skillful qualities.
"But if, on examination, the monk knows, 'I am one who achieves both internal tranquility of awareness and insight into phenomena through heightened discernment,' then his duty is to make an effort in maintaining those very same skillful qualities to a higher degree for the ending of the effluents.
"Monks, I speak of robes in two ways: to be partaken of and not to be partaken of. I also speak of alms food... lodgings... villages & towns... countrysides... individuals in two ways: to be partaken of and not to be partaken of.
"'Monks, I speak of robes in two ways: to be partaken of and not to be partaken of': Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? Any robe of which one has come to know, 'When I partake of this robe, unskillful qualities increase and skillful qualities decrease,' that sort of robe is not to be partaken of. Any robe of which one has come to know, 'When I partake of this robe, unskillful qualities decrease and skillful qualities increase,' that sort of robe is to be partaken of. 'Monks, I speak of robes in two ways: to be partaken of and not to be partaken of': Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said.
"'Monks, I also speak of alms food in two ways...' ...
"'Monks, I also speak of lodgings in two ways...' ...
"'Monks, I also speak of villages & towns in two ways...' ...
"'Monks, I also speak of countrysides in two ways...' ...
"'Monks, I also speak of individuals in two ways: to be partaken of and not to be partaken of':[3] Thus was it said. In reference to what was it said? Any individual of whom one has come to know, 'When I partake of this individual, unskillful qualities increase and skillful qualities decrease,' that sort of individual is not to be partaken of. Any individual of whom one has come to know, 'When I partake of this individual, unskillful qualities decrease and skillful qualities increase,' that sort of individual is to be partaken of. 'Monks, I also speak of individuals in two ways: to be partaken of and not to be partaken of': Thus was it said. And in reference to this was it said."
Notes
- 1.
- I.e., not skilled in reading the minds of others.
- 2.
- I.e., if he conducts it in this way.
- 3.
- The word sevitabba, when used with material items, is usually translated as "to be partaken of." When used with people, it is usually translated as "to be associated with." However, here I have used the former rendering throughout to maintain the pattern of the original language, and also to point out the fact that when one associates with another person, one internalizes that person's qualities and views.