Any method to get rid off ghost?
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Originally posted by 2009novice:
Rooney compared Pure land as akin to Heaven and karma... i felt it should be clarified early because it is totally different.With regards to authenticity, do u notice sutras begins with: Thus I have heard, "如是我闻" ? Are you going to question all sutras are not buddha's words...? U will face many 烦� (frustrations)... is it necessary...?
I still don't see why it's not unlike the xtian 'saviour' concept.
Personally, if I wanna test authenticity, it has to be in line with the earliest teachings which means coming from the Pali Canon. So if you are implying that suttas are not the Buddha's words, then you shouldn't even be a buddhist in the first place. In other words, no Pali Canon, no buddhism and all the various traditions.
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Originally posted by whylikethatah:
so if i got a personal experience myself and u don't, it means my experience is real to me and not a belief and i shall force it upon u that it is not a belief and tell u it is true. Lol.
So, are you trying to tell me death is a belief to you. You will only believe in death till you experience it? Since you have not experienced death yet, so people are trying to force the belief of death upon you. Ha ha....... You sound like "I Not Stupid".
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Originally posted by whylikethatah:
I still don't see why it's not unlike the xtian 'saviour' concept.
Personally, if I wanna test authenticity, it has to be in line with the earliest teachings which means coming from the Pali Canon. So if you are implying that suttas are not the Buddha's words, then you shouldn't even be a buddhist in the first place. In other words, no Pali Canon, no buddhism and all the various traditions.
Christians believe in salvation by grace only whereas Pureland practice is "salvation" by both grace and works. Do you see the difference now?
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
So, are you trying to tell me death is a belief to you. You will only believe in death till you experience it? Since you have not experienced death yet, so people are trying to force the belief of death upon you. Ha ha....... You sound like "I Not Stupid".
Hey genius, death is observable by everyone on earth. Going to Pureland is not.
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Originally posted by whylikethatah:
I still don't see why it's not unlike the xtian 'saviour' concept.
Personally, if I wanna test authenticity, it has to be in line with the earliest teachings which means coming from the Pali Canon. So if you are implying that suttas are not the Buddha's words, then you shouldn't even be a buddhist in the first place. In other words, no Pali Canon, no buddhism and all the various traditions.
I do not want to divert the thread's main topic.all i can say is... u miss the "Thus i have heard" point
Clear enough, u don't understand....
Amituofo
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
Christians believe in salvation by grace only whereas Pureland practice is "salvation" by both grace and works. Do you see the difference now?
I don't think so. I came across or rather, read that as long as one chants amituofuo even once in a person's lifetime, Amitabha will come pick him/her up.
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Originally posted by 2009novice:
I do not want to divert the thread's main topic.all i can say is... u miss the "Thus i have heard" point
Clear enough, u don't understand....
Amituofo
You say i miss the point? When you're just practicing selective reading. I already replied to you in my 2nd paragraph in the earlier post.
Personally, if I wanna test authenticity, it has to be in line with the earliest teachings which means coming from the Pali Canon. So if you are implying that suttas are not the Buddha's words, then you shouldn't even be a buddhist in the first place. In other words, no Pali Canon, no buddhism and all the various traditions.
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Originally posted by whylikethatah:
I don't think so. I came across or rather, read that as long as one chants amituofuo even once in a person's lifetime, Amitabha will come pick him/her up.
Curious to know... where did you read that so long as one chants 'Amituofo' "even once in a person's lifetime", Amitabha will come pick him/her up?
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ghosts?u talking about PAP?then u need a powerful bomoh!
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Originally posted by realization:
Curious to know... where did you read that so long as one chants 'Amituofo' "even once in a person's lifetime", Amitabha will come pick him/her up?
huh? i thought this website should be very familiar to u all?
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You need to read this:
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no2e.htm -
Amitabha
- what does it mean?9. Besides chanting Amitabha Buddha, what else should one practise?
Practitioners of the method of chanting the Buddha's name not only recite "Amitabha Buddha", but in addition should also cultivate merits. It is stated in the Amitabha Sutra that rebirth in the Western Pure Land is not possible via conditions that are lacking in virtuous roots, blessings and merits. For instance, when we have practised and perfected the Six Parameters (1. Observing the Precepts, 2. Endurance, 3. Giving, 4. Zeal and Progress, 5. Meditation, and 6. Wisdom), then to be reborn in the Western Pure Land is a simple matter. If you have accomplished a mind that is as pure as the Amitabha Buddha's, then there is no necessity for Amitabha Buddha to come and guide you to the Western Pure Land. At that time you are already a great Bodhisattva. Not only can a great Bodhisattva go the Western Pure Land; he can go to any pure land as he pleases.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
how can ability same as buddha? buddha perfected his perfections in many eons ago.so how can their ability be same when they have not practised their perfections in samsara.
A Buddha cannot amend or change a person's karma, so how can a Buddha affect a person's rebirth on account of his creation of a pureland. creation of a pureland is akin to creating a heaven, no different to the concept of god's heaven. all these contradicted what the historical Buddha has taught the dhamma. A Tathagata is a teacher of god and men, you yourself has to make the effort to end your suffering. you dun think there is a contradiction in this?
Buddha cannot eradicate your karma, but by virtue of your practice, and your pure karma (apart from relying on the vows of Amitabha), you can take birth in pure land.
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no4d.htm
Volume 7 no 4
Voice of Bliss
All forms are illusions
Rebirth in the Pure Land is only possible through pure karma
The Pure Land School of Buddhism advocates that when people die, they bring with them the karma that they had committed to be reborn in the Western Pure Land. This led to a lively debate on the subject. Some people argued that it means that regardless of the virtuous or evil karma [1] that one has committed, a person only needs to wholeheartedly recite “Amitabha Budhha” to the extent that he resonates with the power of the Amitabha Buddha’s vow, then he will be reborn in the Western Pure Land.
On the other hand, others advocated that people must bring with them virtuous karma in order to be reborn in the Western Pure Land, but not when they bring evil karma. Yet, others advocated that a person cannot be reborn in the Western Pure Land as long as he has karma and rebirth in the Pure Land can occur only when all the karma have been eliminated.In reality, all people will be reborn according to their karma. The kinds of karma and the corresponding realms of rebirth are as follows:
- Karma of extreme evil leads one to be reborn in the hell realm
- Karma of ignorance and foolishness lead one to be reborn in the animal realm
- Karma of superstition leads one to be reborn in the ghosts and deities realm
- Blessings of observing the Five Precepts lead one to be reborn in the human realm
- Blessings of performing the Ten Virtuous Deeds lead one to be reborn in the heaven realm
- Actions or karma from hatred, anger and fighting lead one to be reborn in the asura realm
These are called “rebirth according to one’s karma”.
To be reborn in the Western Pure Land requires pure karma. Besides the pure karma, rebirth in the Western Pure Land is not possible at all with whatever kinds of virtuous and evil karma. Therefore, there is no basis to speak of rebirth in the Western Pure Land and then returning to this Saha world to bear the retribution of the karma that they had committed. Only the Bodhisattava, with the power of his vow, can return to this Saha world.
Notes:
[1] karma: A deed or action (either positive or negative; intentional or unintentional) of our thoughts, speech or body and its consequences. These consequences may manifest immediately or at any time in the future. Positive karma will generate pleasant consequences and vice-versa.
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Originally posted by whylikethatah:
I still don't see why it's not unlike the xtian 'saviour' concept.
Personally, if I wanna test authenticity, it has to be in line with the earliest teachings which means coming from the Pali Canon. So if you are implying that suttas are not the Buddha's words, then you shouldn't even be a buddhist in the first place. In other words, no Pali Canon, no buddhism and all the various traditions.
The Mahayana sutras were not expounded by the historical Nirmanakaya appearance of Buddha, but were expounded by Sambhogakaya. Mahayana accepts the validity of pure visions from Buddhas.
Anyway many people have seen pure land, including Ven Shen Kai who is the author of those articles in JenChen.org.sg:
Disciple: Master, how do we witness Sukhavathi?
Master Shen Kai: That's easy. But Sukhavathi is very far away. How far? It's passing through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddhalands. In between this hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddhalands are not Buddhalands but Hui Tu. Buddhalands are pure where Buddhas dwell. Sukhavathi is hence very very far away. Far does not mean we don't believe.
In the sutras, Buddha used to explain that it's very very near. So near that nobody believe it's true. There's no choice as sentient beings are too greedy, hence say it's very very far away and not easy to go or reach. So He expound the Amitabha Sutra, where Buddha spoke without people asking. If a person is not greedy, then Dharmakaya is very near as it encompass everything.
Since it's entire existence, it's so near to reach like space everywhere exist Dharmakaya. Without Dharmakaya, Earth cannot be in the space. Cars cannot works. Every thing is benefited by Dharmakaya.
When people do business, they need an initial funding, now Buddha say you don't need that initial funding, you believe in Amitabha and recite His name.
When one see people wearing a gold necklace, but it's just a piece of metal chain like the one you see in jail to chain prisioners. Then Buddha told sentient beings not to be obsess with gold, you just need to recite Amitabha and don't need any initial funding and you can reborn in a place where gold is use for building constructions.
So does Sukhavathi really exist? Yes. Don't think Buddha is lying. You can GO NOW and witness yourself and come back to tell people. Master tell you I been there before, you all might disbelieve. So I will describe it to you.
Sentient beings on Earth are very small, Bodhisattvas of Sukhavathi are really Big and tall. A person standing next to Amitabha only reach the height of Amitabha's toe! When I reached Sukhavathi, only wish to pay homage to Amitabha, and adore Amitabha.
Amitabha Buddha reply: What do you seek here in Sukhavathi?
Shen Kai: Honored One, i came to seek Dharma.
Amitabha Buddha ask: What kind of Dharma?
Shen Kai: i'm not sure. Seeing Amitabha's forehead is adorned with a curled hair. i wisk to seek that Dharma, Honorable One.
(Back to reality.) That's how I cultivate and got my curled hair, but this Dharma method cannot anyhow expound to people. It's is because you people have doubt in Sukhavathi. Thinking it doesn't exist. Hence I tell you my experience. Due to the busy schedule, the white hair is curled. When it grew longer to 3 inch, it will extend when i'm washing the face. That's the proof.
How did Ocean of suffering (ku hai wu bian) come about? Because beings of samsara cannot sever emotion, love and greed. Sentinet beings cry a lot. Separation from friend, family, love ones, people cry. Son is leaving, mother crys, so does the son. Mother is dying, sons also crys. When people want's to eat, the mouth starts to water. This is greed. People need to work, they swear. In a life them, people generate so many water. One person, say one bucket of water, 100 pax, 100 bucket form a pool of water. If millions of millions of people cannot sever emotion, love and greed, form an Ocean of water.
In our world there's male and female. Those who goes to jail, 99% are involve with female. But in Sukhavathi, there's not male nor female form.
(translated by Sinweiy) -
Originally posted by whylikethatah:
I don't think so. I came across or rather, read that as long as one chants amituofuo even once in a person's lifetime, Amitabha will come pick him/her up.
It is clearly stated in the Amitabha sutra that one needs both works and grace to be reborn in Pureland. Too bad that you can't understand Chinese, that's why you have misunderstood what is Pureland all about.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
It is clearly stated in the Amitabha sutra that one needs both works and grace to be reborn in Pureland. Too bad that you can't understand Chinese, that's why you have misunderstood what is Pureland all about.
Yeah sorry, come to think of it I wouldn't even go as far as to understand Pureland at all, when I cannot even convince myself of the validity of something just because people come and tell me 'it has to be true because so-and-so said so'. Not any different in the case if some fellow comes up and tell me he saw God and therefore it has to be true.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
The Mahayana sutras were not expounded by the historical Nirmanakaya appearance of Buddha, but were expounded by Sambhogakaya. Mahayana accepts the validity of pure visions from Buddhas.
Anyway many people have seen pure land, including Ven Shen Kai who is the author of those articles in JenChen.org.sg:
Disciple: Master, how do we witness Sukhavathi?
Master Shen Kai: That's easy. But Sukhavathi is very far away. How far? It's passing through hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddhalands. In between this hundreds of thousands of millions of Buddhalands are not Buddhalands but Hui Tu. Buddhalands are pure where Buddhas dwell. Sukhavathi is hence very very far away. Far does not mean we don't believe.
In the sutras, Buddha used to explain that it's very very near. So near that nobody believe it's true. There's no choice as sentient beings are too greedy, hence say it's very very far away and not easy to go or reach. So He expound the Amitabha Sutra, where Buddha spoke without people asking. If a person is not greedy, then Dharmakaya is very near as it encompass everything.
Since it's entire existence, it's so near to reach like space everywhere exist Dharmakaya. Without Dharmakaya, Earth cannot be in the space. Cars cannot works. Every thing is benefited by Dharmakaya.
When people do business, they need an initial funding, now Buddha say you don't need that initial funding, you believe in Amitabha and recite His name.
When one see people wearing a gold necklace, but it's just a piece of metal chain like the one you see in jail to chain prisioners. Then Buddha told sentient beings not to be obsess with gold, you just need to recite Amitabha and don't need any initial funding and you can reborn in a place where gold is use for building constructions.
So does Sukhavathi really exist? Yes. Don't think Buddha is lying. You can GO NOW and witness yourself and come back to tell people. Master tell you I been there before, you all might disbelieve. So I will describe it to you.
Sentient beings on Earth are very small, Bodhisattvas of Sukhavathi are really Big and tall. A person standing next to Amitabha only reach the height of Amitabha's toe! When I reached Sukhavathi, only wish to pay homage to Amitabha, and adore Amitabha.
Amitabha Buddha reply: What do you seek here in Sukhavathi?
Shen Kai: Honored One, i came to seek Dharma.
Amitabha Buddha ask: What kind of Dharma?
Shen Kai: i'm not sure. Seeing Amitabha's forehead is adorned with a curled hair. i wisk to seek that Dharma, Honorable One.
(Back to reality.) That's how I cultivate and got my curled hair, but this Dharma method cannot anyhow expound to people. It's is because you people have doubt in Sukhavathi. Thinking it doesn't exist. Hence I tell you my experience. Due to the busy schedule, the white hair is curled. When it grew longer to 3 inch, it will extend when i'm washing the face. That's the proof.
How did Ocean of suffering (ku hai wu bian) come about? Because beings of samsara cannot sever emotion, love and greed. Sentinet beings cry a lot. Separation from friend, family, love ones, people cry. Son is leaving, mother crys, so does the son. Mother is dying, sons also crys. When people want's to eat, the mouth starts to water. This is greed. People need to work, they swear. In a life them, people generate so many water. One person, say one bucket of water, 100 pax, 100 bucket form a pool of water. If millions of millions of people cannot sever emotion, love and greed, form an Ocean of water.
In our world there's male and female. Those who goes to jail, 99% are involve with female. But in Sukhavathi, there's not male nor female form.
(translated by Sinweiy)I know, but then why wasnt it included in the Pali canon? If Buddha did expounded the sutra, it should be included in the canon isnt it. I see no reason why it was excluded and omitted purposelly, as the first council meeting was made up of enlightened arhats.
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Send them my way and don't go around trusting people who say there are ghosts in your house.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
I know, but then why wasnt it included in the Pali canon? If Buddha did expounded the sutra, it should be included in the canon isnt it. I see no reason why it was excluded and omitted purposelly, as the first council meeting was made up of enlightened arhats.
Mahayana teachings are revealed teachings only when the time is ripe for people to receive them. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Mahayana teachings are revealed teachings only when the time is ripe for people to receive them.I see. another issue was some sutra's that were uttered by the Buddha, were not in the pali canon. but how come these sutras were thus I have heard by Ananda. so was it taught and uttered by the Buddha? if they were indeed taught by the Buddha, it should be in the pali canon, but they were not. how come?
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It was not taught and uttered by the historical appearance of Buddha, but could be pure visions received from Sambhogakaya visions of Buddha. The entire setting with Ananda are to be considered pure visions too.
Loppon Namdrol:
In terms of the origin and evolution of Buddhist texts? No. NÄ�gÄ�rjuna did not recover the PrajñÄ�paramita SÅ«tras from sea monsters off of the coast of Andra Pradesh, as romantic as that might sound. Likewise, Buddha did not teach Abhidhamma pitika in one session to the gods in the thirty three heavens, as romantic as that sounds.
One of the nice things about Buddhist texts, especially Mah�y�na texts is that one can study their evolution. Why? Becauase they were translated into different languages over the period of a thousand years. How is the possible? For two reasons -- we have the Chinese canon and the Tibetan canon.
Buddhist sutras in the Chinese canon clearly show textual development over the many recensions of their translations. The Tibetan forms of these sutras are always in more mature forms than the earlier Chinese translations. And interestingly enough, the surviving Sanskrit copies of many sutras and tantras too show evidence of textual development subsequent to their translations into Tibetan. We can see this type of development even between translations from the Imperial period and the so called "later translation period" which begins with Rinchen Zangpo in the late tenth century.
Another thing we notice with Bon texts is that their orthography is solely post Ralpachen i.e. post 840 or so. In other words, we do not find the kinds of archaic spellings in Bon canonical texts in general (such as the Zer mig, etc) that one would expect to find in ancient, pre-Buddhist texts.
So you can speculate all you like about Ancient Buddhas in mythical kingdoms writing down all the Buddhist sutras in independent form and depositing them in Tibet in the some prehistorical period. But the simple fact of the matter is that texts are plastic culture, they are susceptible to evolution and emendation, and in the case of Buddhist texts, these emendations are trackable to a very large degree until the Chinese and Tibetans stopped translating Indic texts. Of course, even in Tibetan Buddhist treasure literature one can find clear evolution and consolidation of language and terminology and very little in the way of truly archaic spellings, etc., spellings we have actual evidence of from texts which clearly date to that time period.More info: http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/378306
Are Mahayana Sutras Taught by Buddha?
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Authorship ought not to be an issue, like Loppon Namdrol said. It's the wisdom of the text that is of utmost important.
As Thusness told me many years ago while reading Lankavatara Sutra, the origins of Mahayana sutras have been a topic of intense debate, but one thing he is sure of: the Lankavatara Sutra cannot be from the hands of the unenlightened.
If you have wisdom eye, you will discern what text is from the enlightened.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
It was not taught and uttered by the historical appearance of Buddha, but could be pure visions received from Sambhogakaya visions of Buddha. The entire setting with Ananda are to be considered pure visions too.
Loppon Namdrol:
In terms of the origin and evolution of Buddhist texts? No. NÄ�gÄ�rjuna did not recover the PrajñÄ�paramita SÅ«tras from sea monsters off of the coast of Andra Pradesh, as romantic as that might sound. Likewise, Buddha did not teach Abhidhamma pitika in one session to the gods in the thirty three heavens, as romantic as that sounds.
One of the nice things about Buddhist texts, especially Mah�y�na texts is that one can study their evolution. Why? Becauase they were translated into different languages over the period of a thousand years. How is the possible? For two reasons -- we have the Chinese canon and the Tibetan canon.
Buddhist sutras in the Chinese canon clearly show textual development over the many recensions of their translations. The Tibetan forms of these sutras are always in more mature forms than the earlier Chinese translations. And interestingly enough, the surviving Sanskrit copies of many sutras and tantras too show evidence of textual development subsequent to their translations into Tibetan. We can see this type of development even between translations from the Imperial period and the so called "later translation period" which begins with Rinchen Zangpo in the late tenth century.
Another thing we notice with Bon texts is that their orthography is solely post Ralpachen i.e. post 840 or so. In other words, we do not find the kinds of archaic spellings in Bon canonical texts in general (such as the Zer mig, etc) that one would expect to find in ancient, pre-Buddhist texts.
So you can speculate all you like about Ancient Buddhas in mythical kingdoms writing down all the Buddhist sutras in independent form and depositing them in Tibet in the some prehistorical period. But the simple fact of the matter is that texts are plastic culture, they are susceptible to evolution and emendation, and in the case of Buddhist texts, these emendations are trackable to a very large degree until the Chinese and Tibetans stopped translating Indic texts. Of course, even in Tibetan Buddhist treasure literature one can find clear evolution and consolidation of language and terminology and very little in the way of truly archaic spellings, etc., spellings we have actual evidence of from texts which clearly date to that time period.More info: http://sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/378306
Are Mahayana Sutras Taught by Buddha?
then how come there is Ananda's Thus I have heard in the opening of the sutra. if it is not taught by the Buddha and attributed to be taught by the Buddha, the karma is very heavy in doing so. I am not sure if the Buddha referred to mara infiltrating into the dhamma as this.
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Authorship ought not to be an issue, like Loppon Namdrol said. It's the wisdom of the text that is of utmost important.
As Thusness told me many years ago while reading Lankavatara Sutra, the origins of Mahayana sutras have been a topic of intense debate, but one thing he is sure of: the Lankavatara Sutra cannot be from the hands of the unenlightened.
If you have wisdom eye, you will discern what text is from the enlightened.
no it is very important. if it was not taught by the Buddha, it should not include thus I have heard. mostly importantly the sutra was not taught by the Buddha. it can be taught by enlightened beings, but you have to take note that the knowledge of enlightened one is not that of a Sammasam Buddha, whose knowledge and power is unsurpassed.
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Like I said, it was part of the pure vision of the enlightened master: the setting with the arhats, bodhisattvas, and Buddhas were definitely present in his pure vision.
Therefore he is not lying.
Anyway, this has gone off topic and I do not wish to continue this discussion under this topic title.
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p.s. Pure Visions mean:
"A Pure Vision is an experience in which the visionary meets directly with a celestial Buddha or teacher of another era who preaches a special sermon. This may occur in a worldly setting or in one of the Buddhist Pure Lands. Pure Visions are variously said to occur while the visionary is in the state of meditative absorption (nyams), in the dream state (rmi-lam), or in the "reality" (dngos) of the waking state."