can hold joss sticks at funeral?
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scenario : if person A(from religion A), because of his religious beliefs...he won't hold joss sticks at his parent's funeral...
my question is...if a buddhist attends a non-buddhist funeral, can he hold joss sticks also? or is it against whatever rules of buddhism? say the buddhist took refuge already
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I once refused joss sticks at the funeral of my colleague's father. The reason is because I know my Muslim colleague will not hold the joss sticks, so I refuse just so that he won't feel at odds.
But later I felt bad, because I think I have been rude by refusing the joss sticks.
I have no issue about the putting joss sticks at other funerals. Its what the deceased's custom entail. It is just a simple gesture to bestow honour to the decease and respect for the bereaved family customs. I felt if I didn't want to put joss sticks, I should not join the line paying their last respects.
I think one can put ones belief aside, and perform a simple gesture in accordance with the deceased tradtion.
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In buddhism, holding or not holding also is the cultivation of blessing.
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if it is just a gesture of respect, i dont see why not.
if you are praying to ancestors to give you blessings and win toto, then that is superstitions, ignorance, and should be discouraged.
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if you dun feel comfy, there shouldnt be any compulsion or forced to hold joss sticks due to you preferences or religious beliefs. your being there at the funeral is already being enough.
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non-buddhist funeral provide joss stick? i wouldn't purposely bring my own joss stick.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:
non-buddhist funeral provide joss stick? i wouldn't purposely bring my own joss stick.
I was abt to ask the same question...Then again, when I read scenario A and the question, there does not seem to be any link...
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Let me relate this true true story to everbody here about holding/cannot hold joss sticks.
My aunt died. She was converted by her daughter. So, the wake dont hv any joss stick, only song and prayer.
My uncle, his sister, was a toaist, he loved his sister so much, cried and forgot he brought the joss stick.
The daughter asked her uncle, my uncle too, to offer the joss stick outside away from the tend. My uncle was so sad with this act.
Then a sudden gust of wind toppled the table and threatening lift up the tent.
After quickly offering the joss stick with some fruits and food at one quiet corner of the floor , the wind suddenly gone and become peaceful.
I am sadden by their children act too. But we cannot do much and cannot meddle their family affairs.
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though, in Buddha's time, there's no such thing as joss stick being invented yet.
so, are we learning from Buddha's teaching or learning from folk believes
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A form of respect to the deceased holding a joss stick and a golden heart to chant for the deceased rebirth to the neither world.
I continue my story....
During qin ming, my uncle secretly went to the christian cementry and bring the joss stick, friuits and food to offer to his sister without the knowledge of their children.
An act of brotherly love....afterall my uncle already old, 70+.
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Originally posted by ^Acid^ aka s|aO^eH~:
I was abt to ask the same question...Then again, when I read scenario A and the question, there does not seem to be any link...
i didn't mean it to link both scenarios directly, but for juxtaposition's sake. if it(holding joss sticks) goes against religion A, then i thought the question should also be put to the buddhist on the other hand. it goes both ways to be fair.
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This is not a new thread, someone ever ask this before.
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Originally posted by likeyou:
Let me relate this true true story to everbody here about holding/cannot hold joss sticks.
My aunt died. She was converted by her daughter. So, the wake dont hv any joss stick, only song and prayer.
My uncle, his sister, was a toaist, he loved his sister so much, cried and forgot he brought the joss stick.
The daughter asked her uncle, my uncle too, to offer the joss stick outside away from the tend. My uncle was so sad with this act.
Then a sudden gust of wind toppled the table and threatening lift up the tent.
After quickly offering the joss stick with some fruits and food at one quiet corner of the floor , the wind suddenly gone and become peaceful.
I am sadden by their children act too. But we cannot do much and cannot meddle their family affairs.
your case also very similar to my case i experienced. my aunt she used to pray to Guan yin, then she passed away due to complications after suffering from a fall at home. then both her daughters from religion A(no prizes for guessing which), decided the type of funeral for her..which also had song and prayer. i think its an injustice. morally speaking, the deceased should have the kind of funeral he or she wants b4 s/he goes.
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Originally posted by whylikethatah:
your case also very similar to my case i experienced. my aunt she used to pray to Guan yin, then she passed away due to complications after suffering from a fall at home. then both her daughters from religion A(no prizes for guessing which), decided the type of funeral for her..which also had song and prayer. i think its an injustice. morally speaking, the deceased should have the kind of funeral he or she wants b4 s/he goes.
People with 3rd eye knows very well where do the souls go to for those with last minute conversion to other religion which the deceased are not familiar or not willing to. People with 3rd eye said theirs are lost souls which are the most pitiful.
I've heard of many real stories of those people who forgo their life long religion and converted to other religion, let their closed ones dreamt that their souls were suffering. The most common complaint is hunger.
There was this auntie whose son was of heavenly religion and died at young age. He told his mum in her dream, asking her to bring food for him and not just brought flowers to his graveyard. He said he felt so "paiseh" (shy) that he had to ask for food from "his Toaist friends."
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I also do not understand why joss stick comes to be associate with paying respect to the deceased? shouldnt respect be done when one was alive? whats the use of paying respect when the person is no longer around and the body lying in a coffin.
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i guess anyone can pay their respects in any way that they wish to.
however, if one brings joss-sticks to a funeral which doesn't cater for it, then they will just have to put them in a make-do location. To go to a funeral you know will not cater for certain other religions customs, but you still want to bring your own style and then afterwards become angry....then the focus is no longer on the deceased, rather to please yourself.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
I also do not understand why joss stick comes to be associate with paying respect to the deceased? shouldnt respect be done when one was alive? whats the use of paying respect when the person is no longer around and the body lying in a coffin.
They act out of love for the deceased.When alive, they respect her, when ones gone, they respect the soul and make sure the soul is in good hand, got money, got cloths to wear, got home to stay and got food to eat.
Last time before died and sudden change of religion is really (imho) disrespect the deceased wishes and deceased destroy the deceased path to the neither world.
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I feel that one should pay respect to the deceased by not being sad. instead make a celebration and show the deceased photo's and video to showcase his/her life before she died.
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Originally posted by likeyou:
They act out of love for the deceased.When alive, they respect her, when ones gone, they respect the soul and make sure the soul is in good hand, got money, got cloths to wear, got home to stay and got food to eat.
Last time before died and sudden change of religion is really (imho) disrespect the deceased wishes and deceased destroy the deceased path to the neither world.
did anyone bother asking the deceased which religion he/she prefers when the deceased was alive and the type of funeral arrangement the deceased wants? what if the deceased really wanted is to scatter his remains in the sea and not hold the 3 day funeral in HDB void deck.
also do you think last minute change of religion will help the deceased go to heaven as in christianity? dun kid yourself. in that case, Osama also can go to heaven if he were to accept Jesus before he died?
if you understand kamma, the deceased will bring his good and bad kamma along with him to his next life. the fate of his next existence depend on his kamma. no amount of chanting will change his destiny in his next life, only kamma.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
I feel that one should pay respect to the deceased by not being sad. instead make a celebration and show the deceased photo's and video to showcase his/her life before she died.
Yes, the deceased are free from sufferring in this world. Free from being a human feeling temporary life being.
One family love the deceased and are sadden and grief. Really cannot be help to ask them to celebrate. You get what I mean?
Just like my late father, no matter how hard I tried not to cry, but still I grief.
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Originally posted by likeyou:
Yes, the deceased are free from sufferring in this world. Free from being a human feeling temporary life being.
One family love the deceased and are sadden and grief. Really cannot be help to ask them to celebrate. You get what I mean?
Just like my late father, no matter how hard I tried not to cry, but still I grief.
you grief cos you are bring brought up or conditioned to cry when people, esp your family and relatives pass away. we are being taught that when someone close to you, you need to cry to show your grief. those who doesnt cry or show their grief is unfilial.
I know of one chap. when his grandfather died, he didnt feel sad, cos he felt that his grandfather will be reborn in heaven. see the difference.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
you grief cos you are bring brought up or conditioned to cry when people, esp your family and relatives pass away. we are being taught that when someone close to you, you need to cry to show your grief. those who doesnt cry or show their grief is unfilial.
I know of one chap. when his grandfather died, he didnt feel sad, cos he felt that his grandfather will be reborn in heaven. see the difference.
Not show...as in yr 1st para, more to attact and strong bonding. -
Originally posted by Rooney9:
you grief cos you are bring brought up or conditioned to cry when people, esp your family and relatives pass away. we are being taught that when someone close to you, you need to cry to show your grief. those who doesnt cry or show their grief is unfilial.
I know of one chap. when his grandfather died, he didnt feel sad, cos he felt that his grandfather will be reborn in heaven. see the difference.
Is this the only reason one would cry at a family member's death (social conditioning and the need to demonstrate filial piety)?
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why only focus on the incense. i had chant amitabhva buddha sutra at funerals for strangers, incense is just a minor part. the attendants are encouraged to join in the chanting to help the deceased.
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just to share a tip which I've learnt & its about joss sticks but nothing to do with wakes..
when I used to attend 995 calls regarding decomposed bodies, I would find a few joss sticks, light 'em up & hold but its got nothing to do with praying or whatsoever, its just to prevent the foul smell caused by the decomposed body to "stick" on my uniform..