Spoken from vast experiences.
In fact, Buddhist writer Stephen Batchelor wrote a dharma book entitled The Faith to Doubt. It is right for us to question. But we need to question with an open heart and an open mind, not with the idea that everything that fits our preconceived notions is right and anything that does not is automatically wrong.
^^
Most religious adherents go by faith - unquestioning faith actually. And that is blind faith. The Kalama sutta starts with 'do not believe ..... '. That means who must begin with a doubt.
People who quote the Kalama sutta usually ignore this one:
""Excellent, Sariputta. Excellent. Those who have not known, seen, penetrated, realized, or attained it by means of discernment would have to take it on CONVICTION [shraddha, i.e. faith] in others that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation"-- Pubbakotthaka Sutta
You have to understand the Kalamas are non-Buddhists and very sceptical minded, who have not made up their mind who to follow [of course by the end of the sutta, they follow the Buddha], this passage i cite here is for followers of the Buddha. Who have made up their minds to follow the Buddha.
Faith [shraddha] is one of the five faculties and one of the five powers, it is a postive mental factor found in all wholesome minds in the desire realm.
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Originally posted by sinweiy:People who quote the Kalama sutta usually ignore this one:
""Excellent, Sariputta. Excellent. Those who have not known, seen, penetrated, realized, or attained it by means of discernment would have to take it on CONVICTION [shraddha, i.e. faith] in others that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation"-- Pubbakotthaka Sutta
You have to understand the Kalamas are non-Buddhists and very sceptical minded, who have not made up their mind who to follow [of course by the end of the sutta, they follow the Buddha], this passage i cite here is for followers of the Buddha. Who have made up their minds to follow the Buddha.
Faith [shraddha] is one of the five faculties and one of the five powers, it is a postive mental factor found in all wholesome minds in the desire realm.
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Like i said: "Most religious adherents go by faith (shraddha) - unquestioning faith actually."
And you are one of them.
i did question when i used to be in the God believing religion, later then question my way into Buddhism.
i'm at the conclusion stage of Kalama sutta
Kalamas, when you yourselves know: "These things are good; these things are not blamable; these things are praised by the wise; undertaken and observed, these things lead to benefit and happiness," enter on and abide in them.'
"enter on and abide in them" is real faith (shraddha).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalama_Sutta
the Kalama in the end take refuge.
"Marvelous, venerable sir! Marvelous, venerable sir! As if, venerable sir, a person were to turn face upwards what is upside down, or to uncover the concealed, or to point the way to one who is lost or to carry a lamp in the darkness, thinking, 'Those who have eyes will see visible objects,' so has the Dhamma been set forth in many ways by the Blessed One. We, venerable sir, go to the Blessed One for refuge, to the Dhamma for refuge, and to the Community of Bhikkhus for refuge. Venerable sir, may the Blessed One regard us as lay followers who have gone for refuge for life, from today."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.065.than.html
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Originally posted by sinweiy:People who quote the Kalama sutta usually ignore this one:
""Excellent, Sariputta. Excellent. Those who have not known, seen, penetrated, realized, or attained it by means of discernment would have to take it on CONVICTION [shraddha, i.e. faith] in others that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation"-- Pubbakotthaka Sutta
You have to understand the Kalamas are non-Buddhists and very sceptical minded, who have not made up their mind who to follow [of course by the end of the sutta, they follow the Buddha], this passage i cite here is for followers of the Buddha. Who have made up their minds to follow the Buddha.
Faith [shraddha] is one of the five faculties and one of the five powers, it is a postive mental factor found in all wholesome minds in the desire realm.
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actually in the Kalama sutta there is the Criteria of Acceptance... learnt in Pureland
A Look at the Kalama Sutta
by Bhikkhu Bodhi
What can be justly maintained is that those aspects of the Buddha's teaching that come within the purview of our ordinary experience can be personally confirmed within experience, and that this confirmation provides a sound basis for placing faith in those aspects of the teaching that necessarily transcend ordinary experience. Faith in the Buddha's teaching is never regarded as an end in itself nor as a sufficient guarantee of liberation, but only as the starting point for an evolving process of inner transformation that comes to fulfilment in personal insight. But in order for this insight to exercise a truly liberative function, it must unfold in the context of an accurate grasp of the essential truths concerning our situation in the world and the domain where deliverance is to be sought. These truths have been imparted to us by the Buddha out of his own profound comprehension of the human condition. To accept them in trust after careful consideration is to set foot on a journey which transforms faith into wisdom, confidence into certainty, and culminates in liberation from suffering.
Originally posted by I No Stupid:A Look at the Kalama Sutta
by Bhikkhu Bodhi
What can be justly maintained is that those aspects of the Buddha's teaching that come within the purview of our ordinary experience can be personally confirmed within experience, and that this confirmation provides a sound basis for placing faith in those aspects of the teaching that necessarily transcend ordinary experience. Faith in the Buddha's teaching is never regarded as an end in itself nor as a sufficient guarantee of liberation, but only as the starting point for an evolving process of inner transformation that comes to fulfilment in personal insight. But in order for this insight to exercise a truly liberative function, it must unfold in the context of an accurate grasp of the essential truths concerning our situation in the world and the domain where deliverance is to be sought. These truths have been imparted to us by the Buddha out of his own profound comprehension of the human condition. To accept them in trust after careful consideration is to set foot on a journey which transforms faith into wisdom, confidence into certainty, and culminates in liberation from suffering.
Cant agree more on this part :)
Originally posted by lastime:Cant agree more on this part :)
which is what I had been saying all along .... don't just believe without some form of verification or confirmation whether by personal experience, observation, study .... that is sound basis.
--- "To accept them in trust after careful consideration is to set foot on a journey which transforms faith into wisdom, confidence into certainty ... "
--- in other words, not by blind faith.
Originally posted by I No Stupid:which is what I had been saying all along .... don't just believe without some form of verification or confirmation whether by personal experience, observation, study .... that is sound basis.
--- "To accept them in trust after careful consideration is to set foot on a journey which transforms faith into wisdom, confidence into certainty ... "--- in other words, not by blind faith.
This is my idea on faith
"Faith in the Buddha's teaching is never regarded as an end in itself nor as a sufficient guarantee of liberation, but only as the starting point for an evolving process of inner transformation that comes to fulfilment in personal insight"
""Excellent, Sariputta. Excellent. Those who have not known, seen, penetrated, realized, or attained it by means of discernment would have to take it on CONVICTION [shraddha, i.e. faith] in others that the faculty of conviction... persistence... mindfulness... concentration... discernment, when developed & pursued, gains a footing in the Deathless, has the Deathless as its goal & consummation"-- Pubbakotthaka Sutta
the underlined is important. the bold even more important.
there's even a sutta on CONVICTION..
"For a lay person, there are these five rewards of conviction. Which five?
"When the truly good people in the world show compassion, they will first show compassion to people of conviction, and not to people without conviction. When visiting, they first visit people of conviction, and not people without conviction. When accepting gifts, they will first accept those from people with conviction, and not from people without conviction. When teaching the Dhamma, they will first teach those with conviction, and not those without conviction. A person of conviction, on the break-up of the body, after death, will arise in a good destination, the heavenly world. For a lay person, these are the five rewards of conviction.
"Just as a large banyan tree, on level ground where four roads meet, is a haven for the birds all around, even so a lay person of conviction is a haven for many people: monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers."
FYI,
Faith is one of the Eleven Wholesome Dharmas of the One Hundred Dharmas (see entry for latter); it is also one of the Five Faculties (faith, vigor, mindfulness, concentration, and wisdom).
"Faith is necessary in whatever it is one does. One needs to have a sense of belief, an attitude of faith. First, one needs to have faith in oneself. What kind of faith? One needs to have faith that one certainly can become a Buddha. One has to believe that there is no difference between the Buddha and oneself. Yet that lack of difference is in one's Buddha-nature. Cultivation is still required in order to actually become a Buddha. If one cultivates, one will become a Buddha. In order to do so, one must have an initial belief in this principle.
"Second, not only is it necessary to believe that one can become a Buddha oneself, but also to believe that all people can become Buddhas. Moreover, not only can all people become Buddhas, one should believe that all living beings have the Buddha-nature and are capable of becoming Buddhas. If one has that kind of faith, then one should begin by following the rules oneself. To follow the rules means to hold the moral precepts. First one holds the precepts, and then one can become a Buddha. One does it oneself and also encourages others to do so as well.
"Faith must be solid, like a rock, firm and sturdy. Faith shouldn't be like a pile of ashes which seems to have some substance to it but which crumbles at the slightest disturbance. Don't be too soft. One's faith must be strong and solid." (HD 44 45)
THE IMPORTANCE OF FAITH
"Faith is the foundation of cultivation of the Way and the mother of merit and virtue, because it is capable of nourishing wholesome roots. The Buddhadharma is like a vast sea; only by faith can it be entered. Therefore, the single word 'faith' is the essence of escape from birth and death and is the wonderful means for returning to the source. It is a precious raft on the stream of affliction, a torch in the dark cave of ignorance, and a guide who leads us out of the path of confusion. It is a compass for those floundering in the waves on the sea of suffering, and a sagely teacher for those in the Three Paths (Arhat, Pratyekabuddha, and Bodhisattva) and Eight Difficulties ( ). It is the origin of awakening for the Four Kinds of Creatures born (from wombs, eggs, moisture, and transformation) within the Six Paths (see entry). Faith cannot be ignored. An author of ancient times said, 'If a man has no faith, I do not know what can be made of him.'
"Once two bhikshus were travelling to see Shakyamuni Buddha, the World-Honored One. As they travelled they became extremely thirsty but could not find any water. As they walked they happened upon a human skull containing water in which some small bugs were swimming, enjoying themselves tremendously. One of the bhikshus picked up the water and offered some to his companion. The companion replied, 'This water contains bugs, and the moral precepts do not permit drinking such water. I would rather die of thirst than to violate the precepts in order to stay alive.' After this incident he died of thirst.
"When the bhikshu who had drunk the water reached the place where the Buddha was residing, he bowed and said to the Lord, 'Your disciple was travelling in the company of another bhikshu who perished of thirst on the road. I hope the Buddha will be compassionate and rescue him.'
"The Buddha said to the bhikshu who had drunk the water, 'Because he stringently maintained the moral precepts and was so firm in his faith that he would not violate them even in the face of death, he received the awesome power of the Buddhas and arrived here before you. He has already seen the Buddha and heard the Dharma before you. He is a bhikshu who has true faith in the precepts." (WM 53-54; also S42 75-76)
Hymn of Faith
Faith is the source of the Way;
Faith is the mother of merit and virtue.
As they arise by faith,
All wholesome dharmas must by faith be nurtured.
Faith cuts the tangled web of doubt,
Escaping loves delusive flow,
And opens wide to reveal the true and unsurpassed Nirvana's road.
Faith has no stain or mar,
Bringing the turbid mind purification,
Eradicating pride,
Of all respect and reverence the foundation.
Within the Dharma Treasury
faith's jewel outshines the fairest gold;
Hence every conduct our hands by faith made pure receive and surely hold.
Faith is the healing source
By which our faculties are cleansed and quickened. Nothing can turn its force,
The solid power of faith cannot be broken.
And when by faith forever
From all affliction we depart,
The Buddha's merit will thus become the sole devotion of our hearts.
With faith the mind's unmoved,
Free from attachment to conditioned arising;
Disasters far removed,
In the tranquility of faith abiding.
The bliss of faith victorious!
Among the conducts of all worlds,
This faith alone is the one most rare and precious wish-fulfilling pearl.
Profoundly we believe:
Trusting the Buddhas and the Buddhas' Dharma,
Treading the Bodhi-Path,
Forever followed by all true disciples.
And to the Great Enlightenment
Our thoughts are joyfully inclined:
The Bodhisattvas with this deep heart of faith produce the Bodhi-Mind!
(RH 235)
1) Ch. syin , 2) Skt. sraddha, (prasada), 3) Pali saddha, 4) Alternate Translations: belief.
http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/BuddhistDict/BDF.html
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Originally posted by lastime:This is my idea on faith
"Faith in the Buddha's teaching is never regarded as an end in itself nor as a sufficient guarantee of liberation, but only as the starting point for an evolving process of inner transformation that comes to fulfilment in personal insight"
Yes . and in my opinion if we treat what is written in the suttas as 'permanent' then we are losing grip to the core principal of what buddha teaches . things changes and evolves . lessons too .
I have serious doubts on Mahayanist teachings really. some of the teachings, not taught by the Buddha, is incorporated into Buddhism, which I find it confusing and in odds with what the Buddha has taught.
Originally posted by Rooney9:I have serious doubts on Mahayanist teachings really. some of the teachings, not taught by the Buddha, is incorporated into Buddhism, which I find it confusing and in odds with what the Buddha has taught.
Well... yep some find it confusing.. some find Mahayana ritualistic... lol
But there's one thread I posted: on the ancient birch barks which can be traced back to more than 2000 years ago... Mahayana teachings. It has significant meanings, that either Theravada, Mahayana or other schools (if exist) are complementary to each other teachings. They are supportive of each other, but no at odds or at conflict. Although some people might not agreed with it. Imagine a bush-like development of Buddhism... not a tree-like structure...
Mahayana is quite... looking on bigger perspectives i would say.
during Buddha's time, there were no Theravada or Mahayana. I have concluded that the Pali Canon of the Theravada were as close as the original word of the Buddha. some of the sutra from Mahayana, I have grave doubts, sorry to say this.
proof in theory:
大乘�佛說的錯誤 (part 1,2,3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MF5miuqZ1c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YXqGUVPkx4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGHxuTFXSDI&feature=related
the way we proof Mahayana is wrong. we cannot use the way we proof/test ancient object or texts, which is of birth and death生ç�法 to proof something that's neither birth non deathä¸�生ä¸�ç�of Mahayana. can only use direct experiencing to proof ä¸�生ä¸�ç�法.
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did the Buddha used words like theravada or mahayana, yes, no? if u have distinctions like these, your mind will not attain enlightenment.
no doubt; bodhisattva sever(ed) dualism.
they really no differentiation/bias, no like or dislike, no this is bad, that's good , no this is high, that's low...etc.
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