How do we take refuge. If one chants the buddhas names. Is that considered?
You should find a dharma center, a monastery, whose teachings you think you resonate with.
Then, take refuge in that center, with the master or guru as witness.
You need to check out with the center/temple/monastery/etc.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:You should find a dharma center, a monastery, whose teachings you think you resonate with.
Then, take refuge in that center, with the master or guru as witness.
You need to check out with the center/temple/monastery/etc.
That's a good thing to do. But I don't have much time for the time being.
Originally posted by Beautiful951:That's a good thing to do. But I don't have much time for the time being.
Try to find time. Taking refuge is an important matter. It creates a karmic connection with the triple gems and is an important start of the Buddhist path.
There are many things to do in life... many times we are often so busy. But if we take into consideration the countless past lives and the possible countless future lives we have to go through if we are not liberated, we will find that our mundane concerns are really not that important after all. In fact we will be so tired of always getting caught up in the samsaric cycle.
That's why its very important not to live life in vain.
Like Bodhidharma said:
To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature. Your nature is
the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who’s free: free of plans, free
of cares. If you don’t see your nature and run around all day looking
somewhere else, you’ll never find a buddha. The truth is there’s nothing
to find. But to reach such an understanding you need a teacher and you
need to struggle to make yourself understand. Life and death are
important. Don’t suffer them in vain.
There’s no advantage in deceiving yourself. Even if you have mountains
of jewels and as many servants as there are grains of sand along the
Ganges, you see them when your eyes are open. But what about when your
eyes are shut? You should realize then that everything you see is like a
dream or illusion.
If you don’t find a teacher soon, you’ll live this life in vain. It’s
true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you’ll never
know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a
teacher’s help. If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone
understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn’t need a teacher.
Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But
unless you’re so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you’ll
understand.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Try to find time. Taking refuge is an important matter. It creates a karmic connection with the triple gems and is an important start of the Buddhist path.
There are many things to do in life... many times we are often so busy. But if we take into consideration the countless past lives and the possible countless future lives we have to go through if we are not liberated, we will find that our mundane concerns are really not that important after all. In fact we will be so tired of always getting caught up in the samsaric cycle.
That's why its very important not to live life in vain.
Like Bodhidharma said:
To find a Buddha all you have to do is see your nature. Your nature is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the person who’s free: free of plans, free of cares. If you don’t see your nature and run around all day looking somewhere else, you’ll never find a buddha. The truth is there’s nothing to find. But to reach such an understanding you need a teacher and you need to struggle to make yourself understand. Life and death are important. Don’t suffer them in vain.
There’s no advantage in deceiving yourself. Even if you have mountains of jewels and as many servants as there are grains of sand along the Ganges, you see them when your eyes are open. But what about when your eyes are shut? You should realize then that everything you see is like a dream or illusion.
If you don’t find a teacher soon, you’ll live this life in vain. It’s true, you have the buddha-nature. But the help of a teacher you’ll never know it. Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher’s help. If, though, by the conjunction of conditions, someone understands what the Buddha meant, that person doesn’t need a teacher. Such a person has a natural awareness superior to anything taught. But unless you’re so blessed, study hard, and by means of instruction you’ll understand.
I was thinking of applying for a kind of talk at the temple at bishan. But did not in the end. I thought that reading the posts here is enough and not having much time then, also I always thought that pureland is a sure method to practice. I cannot be sure that I will go and listen to talks but I will make it a priority.
Originally posted by Beautiful951:I was thinking of applying for a kind of talk at the temple at bishan. But did not in the end. I thought that reading the posts here is enough and not having much time then, also I always thought that pureland is a sure method to practice. I cannot be sure that I will go and listen to talks but I will make it a priority.
Taking refuge is a one-off ceremony. They usually hold it on important Buddhist dates at least 3-4 times a year at temples such as Guang Ming Shan.
The next one may be on the 9th month of the lunar calendar. Not sure exactly when, but if you like I can find out and let you know.
It is also very important for pure land practitioners to take refuge - sinweiy can fill me in here.
Furthermore: pure land isn't a 'sure way' - no way is a 'sure way'. It all depends on the practitioner. Other than sincerely and frequently chanting the Buddha name, you also have to cultivate merits and wisdom.
http://www.jenchen.org.sg/vol7no3e.htm
7. What are the other methods of cultivation besides reciting the name of the Buddha?
There are 84,000 methods. Reciting the name of the Buddha is one of them.
Many practitioners of Buddhism feel that it suffices to cultivate by reciting the name of the Buddha and disregard the other methods. Although this is a very good method of cultivation, in the teachings of Buddhism there are many other methods or “Dharma-doors”. Speaking of reciting the name of the Buddha, in general, people recite Amitabha Buddha. Actually, this method is not limited to reciting Amitabha Buddha. We can recite the name of all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the ten directions and the three periods (8 directions of the compass, the zenith and nadir; the past, present and future), for example, Sakyamuni Buddha, Manjusri Bodhisattva, Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva, Samantabhadra Bodhisattva, and many others.
If we seek to be reborn in the Western Pure Land, then we need to recite Amitabha Buddha frequently. However, there is no guarantee that a person who only recites Amitabha Buddha will definitely be reborn in the Western Pure Land. It is stated in the Amitabha Sutra, “It is not possible through conditions lacking in virtuous roots, blessings and merits to be born in that land (i.e. Western Pure Land).” This means that besides reciting the name of the Buddha, we must also cultivate our blessings and wisdom, and until the fulfilment of many, many conditions relating to our blessings and merits, is it possible to be reborn in the Western Pure Land. For example, cultivating the 3-steps-1-bow is also a method of cultivating blessings and lessening our sickness, sufferings and misfortunes.
The teachings of Buddhism are not limited to reciting the name of the Buddha. There are 84,000 methods or Dharma-doors through which we can enter, and all of them are equally reliable. The 3-steps-1-bow is one of them.
The Jen Chen article is too long and there are holes. I am curious of this question in the first paragraph "However, do they know the true extent of their goodness?"
A person who does good knows in his heart, there is NO need to know the true extent of his goodness. What is true??
Next, to learn the dhamma, one need not begin by taking Refuge. This requirement was compare to pursuing a study in university and the need for enrolment. One can pursue a study by just simply going ahead to study. Enrolment is merely an administrative requirement. I see where the flaw is.
The attainment of nirvana does not require one to be a Buddhist. Anyone who follows the NEP, strive diligently to rid of defilements and the 'three poisons' is on the way to liberation.
Refuge-taking is an initiation rite just like joining a triad society. One 'officially' becomes a Buddhist and vows to observe the precepts. It is not a guarantee that one will attain nirvana. Thus, I would use the same analogy of the university - enrolment does not guarantee graduation!
of course... enrolment does not gurantee graduation- that's because you never work hard, breaking precepts all the time!
don't twist and turn your meanings pls.
Originally posted by 2009novice:of course... enrolment does not gurantee graduation- that's because you never work hard, breaking precepts all the time!
don't twist and turn your meanings pls.
you certainly didn't get what I was trying to say. learning the dhamma does not require one to take refuge first! and taking refuge is no guarantee of attaining nirvana. get it now???
Originally posted by I No Stupid:you certainly didn't get what I was trying to say. learning the dhamma does not require one to take refuge first! and taking refuge is no guarantee of attaining nirvana. get it now???
what's your main concern of taking refuge...? it also mean u are humble enough to learn from Buddha... u knw what i mean???
Someone not taking refuge is like a sick person trying to heal himself without relying on a doctor's medicine and prescription. He will not be able to heal.
If one does not decide to seriously rely on the triple gems, how can one hope to gain enlightenment?
Originally posted by 2009novice:
what's your main concern of taking refuge...? it also mean u are humble enough to learn from Buddha... u knw what i mean???
My response was to the article's claim that one must take refuge first before learning the dhamma, not about being humble! I know all these talks about being humble, etc. When you learn the dhamma, you are respecting the Buddha already! No need to go perform rites! Buddha himself was against rites and rituals.
The rites was of course not the main point. The main point is to take refuge.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Someone not taking refuge is like a sick person trying to heal himself without relying on a doctor's medicine and prescription. He will not be able to heal.
If one does not decide to seriously rely on the triple gems, how can one hope to gain enlightenment?
- Driven only by fear, do men go for refuge to many places — to hills, woods, groves, trees and shrines.
- Such, indeed, is no safe refuge; such is not the refuge supreme. Not by resorting to such a refuge is one released from all suffering.
- He who has gone for refuge to the Buddha, the Teaching and his Order, penetrates with transcendental wisdom the Four Noble Truths — suffering, the cause of suffering, the cessation of suffering, and the Noble Eightfold Path leading to the cessation of suffering.
- This indeed is the safe refuge, this the refuge supreme. Having gone to such a refuge, one is released from all suffering.
- — Dhammapada 188-192
//Someone not taking refuge is like a sick person trying to heal himself without relying on a doctor's medicine and prescription. He will not be able to heal.
If one does not decide to seriously rely on the triple gems, how can one hope to gain enlightenment?//
Absolute rubbish and delusional. Where in the 4NT was it stated that refuge-taking is a requirement for attaining enlightenment???
Do you say Dhammapada is rubbish?
4NT already implicitly implies the necessity to take refuge.
Why?
Only the Dharma, the Eight Fold path leads to cessation of suffering.
Therefore it is only by relying on and taking refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, and Sangha that we can end suffering.
There is no other way.
LOL bickering with words again..haiz..you know mr INS you are right in this point enrolment doesnt = graduation. Going to refuge ceremonies is just like a ritual to show others(and convince your self) or a symbol that we were try to make a commitment on this particular teaching,however anyone can meditate,keep as many precept as we want even if we dont take refuges.But with the commitment that we have gone through a refuge ceremony it give one less excuses to start our bad habits again and again, and with practice + resolutions it will make the practice deeper and stronger with time to come.
Its good to make some resolutions initially and then try to stick to it,if we are honest to our selves and others it will keep us in touch with the vows we try to unhold.
Side track abit,just like getting married and registered with the ROM or doing it the old style way just within the family.The former if you break your marriage vows you are answerable to the law and your wife-y and the family,the latter just your wife-y and family.If both sides are truly faithful and commited how they are married of course it doesnt matter at all becos the ending is the same.
In reality this is common not the case with ups and does(things like 7 years itch adultery etc etc) with all this commitment in place dont you think the married couple in the modern ceremony will seriously consider more than the latter if anyone of them try to be funny?
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Do you say Dhammapada is rubbish?
4NT already implicitly implies the necessity to take refuge.
Why?
Only the Dharma, the Eight Fold path leads to cessation of suffering.
Therefore it is only by relying on and taking refuge in the Buddha, the Dharma, and Sangha that we can end suffering.
There is no other way.
Can you say the Dhammapada cannot contain rubbish? Who wrote the Dhammapada?
The 4NT did not mention taking refuge - as in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. This is your own 'implication'. The Buddha explicitly said the the dharma only - check what he said upon his parinirvana.
You are absolutley wrong - there is one way only - the 4th NT.
lastime said it well. I rest my case.
Originally posted by I No Stupid:Can you say the Dhammapada cannot contain rubbish? Who wrote the Dhammapada?
The 4NT did not mention taking refuge - as in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha. This is your own 'implication'. The Buddha explicitly said the the dharma only - check what he said upon his parinirvana.
You are absolutley wrong - there is one way only - the 4th NT.
Dhammapada is Buddha's words.
Taking refuge is mentioned in many, not one, sutta.
The 4NT implicitly implies the necessity of the three refuges. Without Buddha, there is no Dharma sassana, and without Sangha, the Dharma cannot be disseminated. They are interconnected and intrinsically inseparable.
"Indeed, the Blessed One is worthy and rightly self-awakened, consummate in knowledge & conduct, well-gone, an expert with regard to the world, unexcelled as a trainer for those people fit to be tamed, the Teacher of divine & human beings, awakened, blessed...
"The Dhamma is well-expounded by the Blessed One, to be seen here & now, timeless, inviting verification, pertinent, to be realized by the wise for themselves...
"The Sangha of the Blessed One's disciples who have practiced well... who have practiced straight-forwardly... who have practiced methodically... who have practiced masterfully — in other words, the four types [of noble disciples] when taken as pairs, the eight when taken as individual types — they are the Sangha of the Blessed One's disciples: worthy of gifts, worthy of hospitality, worthy of offerings, worthy of respect, the incomparable field of merit for the world."
— AN 11.12
(These verses are usually recited prior to taking on the Five Precepts.)
— Khp 1
"There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones has gone to the Buddha for refuge. This is the first reward of merit, reward of skillfulness, nourishment of happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing; to welfare & to happiness.
"Furthermore, the disciple of the noble ones has gone to the Dhamma for refuge. This is the second reward of merit...
"Furthermore, the disciple of the noble ones has gone to the Sangha for refuge. This is the third reward of merit..."
— AN 8.39
— Thig 12
When the Exalted One had spoken thus, Sigala, the young householder, said as follows:
"Excellent, Lord, excellent! It is as if, Lord, a man were to set upright that which was overturned, or were to reveal that which was hidden, or were to point out the way to one who had gone astray, or were to hold a lamp amidst the darkness, so that those who have eyes may see. Even so, has the doctrine been explained in various ways by the Exalted One.
"I take refuge, Lord, in the Buddha, the Dhamma, and the Sangha. May the Exalted One receive me as a lay follower; as one who has taken refuge from this very day to life's end."
— DN 31
Originally posted by I No Stupid:You are absolutley wrong - there is one way only - the 4th NT.
Then do it. Practice the Noble Eightfold Path.
However, as far as Many on this forum have noticed and pointed out, you haven't even begun to practice Right Speech.
It's funny how you go around pointing out others' "mistakes" but fail to notice your own.
Before calling others half-baked Buddhists as you have been doing lately, first make sure you yourself are well above board in thought, word and deed.
Originally posted by realization:Then do it. Practice the Noble Eightfold Path.
However, as far as Many on this forum have noticed and pointed out, you haven't even begun to practice Right Speech.
It's funny how you go around pointing out others' "mistakes" but fail to notice your own.
Before calling others half-baked Buddhists as you have been doing lately, first make sure you yourself are well above board in thought, word and deed.
hahaha, you don't like what I say and how I say, and you used Right Speech as an excuse? Right speech means not telling lies! But I understand what many have interpreted it as - saying nice words!
Originally posted by I No Stupid:hahaha, you don't like what I say and how I say, and you used Right Speech as an excuse? Right speech means not telling lies! But I understand what many have interpreted it as - saying nice words!
No. That's not at all what I mean.
Even if you don't understand. Many on this forum will find resonance with what I've just said to you.
I will say it again... First learn Right Speech, Right Intention and learn Buddha's brand of Morality.