Pureland got enough space?

• LavenderWu

  8 Aug 11, 00:24

  When I was young, I debated with my Christian friend - If all Christians (who don't sin) will go to heaven after death. Then heaven got so many space to accomodate ? And all go heaven there will be no humans left on earth, no rebirth. Similarly, now I became a buddhist. Like millions of buddhist in Singapore, I too aim or at least hope to go to Pureland after death. Not that pureland is heavenly, but I just want to get out from the cycle of birth, old age, sickness and death. My question is, just like the Christian's heaven, our Buddhist Pureland got enough space to accomodate so many buddhist who after death go up there? I know normal human beings who are alive now can't answer my this question. But what about those with 3rd eyes ? Can you see your deceased buddhist friend/relatives going up to Pureland or did you ever dream of them in Pureland?
• alize

  8 Aug 11, 00:41

  I would like to ask a question: is pureland = heaven?

  Is your spirit pure when you enter?

  Are you able to consume as much as you want of anything?

  But then, if you like to consume as much as you want of anything, is your spirit pure?

• LavenderWu

  8 Aug 11, 01:48

  Let's assume that there are many buddhist out there who have attained enlightenment, hence their spirit is pure and can go to Pureland (Yes, Pureland in buddhist concept is equal to Heaven). But my question is, can Pureland have so much space to let all these pure spirit humans who have died to live there?
• Amitayus48

  8 Aug 11, 07:58

  Your brain is tiny yet can accomodate images of the entire galaxy and even information and images arises from your dream as well. Likewise to computer chip. The brain and chip never expand a slightest. So amazing

  我作佛时，寿命无�，国中声闻天人无数，寿命亦皆无�。�令三�大�世界众生，悉�缘觉，于百�劫，悉共计校，若能知其�数者，��正觉。
  When I become a Buddha, my lifespan would be limitless. There will be innumerable Sound Hearers and Heavenly Beings in my Land. Their lifespans will also be limitless. If all the living beings in The Three Thousand, Great Thousand World System were to attain the Conditioned Enlightenment, and if they were to count and compare the number of Sound Hearers and Heavenly Beings in my Land in hundreds and thousands of kalpas, and are able to know the number, I will not attain The Proper Enlightenment.

  May the merit of this sharing be transferred to all suffering beings and for world peace.

• sinweiy

  8 Aug 11, 08:53

  easy question. :)

  pureland is also not a "place". like Nirvana, it's a puriest state of mind. hence how infinite samsara is, its how infinite pureland/Nirvana is. like Hua Yen Sutra states, the Mind-ground.

   

  "What is the Pureland really? The Pureland is one's own stainless primordial awareness. If, from moment to moment, you regain and retain your own primordial enlightened nature: that is the Pureland. Everything comes from your own mind. Understand that, remain there: that is the Pureland."

   

  this is so also for the dream-like heaven and hell. or samsara in a sense. when u dream of a place, how big is it? is there a beginning in ur dream?

  /\

   

• Amitayus48

  8 Aug 11, 09:16

  Originally posted by LavenderWu:

   Can you see your deceased buddhist friend/relatives going up to Pureland or did you ever dream of them in Pureland?

  Plentiful of experiences encountered in the past and present purelandists who aided the last breath in attaining pureland. Below is bodhisavattas returned to samsara world because of compassionate vow prior to attainment of buddha.

  One of many good example is :

   è¥¿æ–¹ç¡®æŒ‡
  http://www.baus-ebs.org/sutra/jan-read/004/1191.htm

  一时�� (觉明妙行��)自��国�。�于娑婆震旦�勾�地。在会弟�。以往昔因缘。得蒙化度。��将显净土法门。

  ��曰 (觉明妙行��)。所示净土一门。真诸佛心宗。人天径路。今�等虽求往生。若�愿�切。如入海而�获��。徒劳无益也。我昔于晋明�时。�贫�身。为贫苦故。乃�大愿云。我以夙业。�此苦报。若我今日�得�阿弥陀佛。生��国。�就一切功德者。纵令丧身。终�退�。誓已。七日七夜。专精忆念。便得心开。�阿弥陀佛相好光明。徧�方世界。我于佛�亲蒙授记。�至七�五而�脱。竟生��。�以度生愿�。��此土。�方显化。或为比邱。或为居士。或为国王。或为臣宰。或为女人。或为屠匄。或�或显。或顺或逆。皆�顺说法。导诸羣�。�以仙�多未悟真常。耽长寿�。��进修。我现仙身。救其迷�。如�僖宗�一事也。今则�为�等�明邪正。�扬净土。�等当一�一心。�修此门。必�相误。若心志一�。��待隔世而生。现�亦得�佛。如我昔年无异。

   

  无�寿� - 我作佛时，所有众生，生我国者，究竟必至一生补处。除其本愿，为众生故，被弘誓铠，教化一切有情，皆�信心，修��行，行普贤�。虽生他方世界，永离�趣。或�说法，或��法，或现神足，��修习，无�圆满。若�尔者，��正觉。

  When I become a Buddha, all the living beings born in my Land will ultimately arrive at the position of only one birth before Buddhahood. Provided they vow to save living beings, they would be armed with great vows to teach and transform all the sentient beings, so that all will bring forth the faith to cultivate the Bodhi conduct and practise the path of Samantabhadra Bodhisattva. Even though such beings are being born in the other worlds, they will forever be free from the Evil Paths. May be some would like to speak the Dharma, some would like to listen to Dharma, or some may appear to have the spiritual power. Everyone of them will practise according to their wish, and none will be unable to accomplish them. If I am unable to accomplish such vows, I will not attain The Proper Enlightenment.

  May the merit of this sharing be transferred to all suffering beings and for world peace.

• realization

  8 Aug 11, 09:38

  Originally posted by LavenderWu:

  Let’s assume that there are many buddhist out there who have attained enlightenment, hence their spirit is pure and can go to Pureland (Yes, Pureland in buddhist concept is equal to Heaven).

  But my question is, can Pureland have so much space to let all these pure spirit humans who have died to live there?

  Pureland is not equal to the Christian concept of an eternal heaven. 

  Sentient beings don't go there to live 'happily ever after'.  They go there to continue cultivation so that they may attain Buddhahood. 

  Rebirth in Pureland halts the cycle of birth and death in the sense that you stay in that realm for as long as it takes to attain Buddhahood; after which you may choose to come back to Samsara to save sentient beings from their ignorance (度众生).  It's not exactly a place where you just stay there forever to enjoy and live in bliss.

• Mindfulness

  8 Aug 11, 10:40

  If government still let FTs come in relentlessly, Singapore no space first. MRT super duper crowded already.
• Mindfulness

  8 Aug 11, 10:41

  Namo Amitabha Buddha _/\_
• Mindfulness

  8 Aug 11, 10:43

  I am very very happy, I completed my goal of listening to Namo AMTF chanting more than 1 million times on my MP4.
• Aik TC

  8 Aug 11, 12:59

  Originally posted by Mindfulness:

  I am very very happy, I completed my goal of listening to Namo AMTF chanting more than 1 million times on my MP4.

   

  You mean you count your chants? So is it the chants or the counting you are concentrating on? Anyway, it must have taken you a long while to do so.

   

• Mindfulness

  8 Aug 11, 13:17

  No not chant using mouth. Listening to chanting on MP4. Chanting using mouth not so much, surely lesser than 1 million times. I have been listening to AMTF chant since young of course got 1 million times at least.
• Aik TC

  8 Aug 11, 14:52

  Originally posted by Mindfulness:

  No not chant using mouth.

  Listening to chanting on MP4.

  Chanting using mouth not so much, surely lesser than 1 million times.

  I have been listening to AMTF chant since young of course got 1 million times at least.

  
  Sorry, my mistake. Anyway, good practice listening to chanting

• bohiruci

  8 Aug 11, 15:06

  Originally posted by Mindfulness:

  I am very very happy, I completed my goal of listening to Namo AMTF chanting more than 1 million times on my MP4.

  Please try to chant .only by chanting can one attain the Samadhi of One-pointedness. Just by listen cant help you to Sukhavati, as said in the various sutra .

   

  Remember you are like  a light bulb , if you do not have tungsten as filament[initiative to walk the path] ,how can you expect to go Sukhavati ?

   

   

• Aik TC

  8 Aug 11, 15:08

  Originally posted by bohiruci:

  Please try to chant .only by chanting can one attain the Samadhi of One-pointedness. Just by listen cant help you to Sukhavati, as said in the various sutra .

   

  Remember you are like  a light bulb , if you do not have tungsten as filament[initiative to walk the path] ,how can you expect to go Sukhavati ?

   

   

   

  Ya, and practice as well.

   

• bohiruci

  8 Aug 11, 15:12

  Once when venerable Guang qing ask a lay disciple .Have you practised ?

  The lay disciple immediately say ,yes i have and i chanted 10,000 times .Ven Guang Qing replied in hokkien , oh ,so you can count the Buddha name ?

   

  What Ven Guangqing means is that Buddha name chanting is not supposed to count and start attaching to the numbers.the purpose of recitation is to cultivate the final unwavering thought(last thought before death)

  in seeking rebirth to Sukhavati.

   

  If everyone start boasting how many numbers chanted of Buddha name ,then why arent many most of them in their deathbed able to passed away peacefully to Sukhavati ?

   

  the number we worldly people talk about is attachment, its different from the real merit of chanting and samadhi explained in all Buddhist sutra ..

• Amitayus48

  8 Aug 11, 16:30

  Originally posted by Mindfulness:

  If government still let FTs come in relentlessly, Singapore no space first.

  MRT super duper crowded already.

  They are top brainers, and should have double decker mrt in the first place. Other consideration on electricity, water, waste disposal, housing and greenery should also be done before welcoming many more FTs, and the multiplexing of population "production" in 30-50 years from the child of Singaporean (FT and non-FT as of now). As population increases, it invites environmental awareness as more resources are involved in a small dot. More importantly is the mind of gracious, compassionate, patient, calm and peace of mind living together. It can impact the pleasant of the enviroment as it altered / harmonise directly the formula of cell into crystal formation - this is how pureland amitabha is developed from realization and actualization of this truth by Dharmastore Bodhisavatta then. The only way is to know one's love and meditative mind, and that buddhism can provide flawlessly. Another consideration is to increase the salary of Singaporean in many-fold so that if over-crowded, singaporean who lack of understanding can choose to move to other lovely country to live and grace on, like some wealthy Singapore family migrated to other country.  Future is always lovely, 2moro is better than today.

  Namo Amitabha Buddha _/|\_

• sinweiy

  8 Aug 11, 16:35

  that mean:

  �念弥陀心散乱,喊破喉咙也枉然

  i.e. recite with a wandering mind, is of not much use.

  /\

• 2009novice

  8 Aug 11, 16:36

  interesting thread... never thought of it before...

  there are actually many Pure Lands to go. But Amituofo's PL is recommended by all Buddhas. If u are reborn there, u can visit other Buddhas' PLs. Imagine Amituofo's one is like HQ which u can go other PL and consult Buddhas questions lol

  So can u imagine how vast it is...? More spacious than u can imagine. In the Amituofo sutra, Shakyamuni Buddha said there are countless sravakas (sheng wen), arhats, bodhisattvas like the sand of Ganges River (translation correct right...?)

   

  But I can't help to bring in the picture of Avici Hell.

  Di Zang sutra stated... just one sentient being alone suffering there, the Hell is fully occupied. If many beings, the Hell is still equally fully occupied... really defies the understanding of physical space. (二者�一人亦满，多人亦满，故称无间)

  @LavenderWu,

  Forgot to add, some people without 3rd eyes claim to see Amituofo coming to bring the departed. Some claim to hear heavenly music, or unique fragrance that fill the air around the departed... all these are auspicious signs... 

• sinweiy

  8 Aug 11, 17:57

  remind me:

  Buddha Amitabha appeared to instruct Avalokiteshvara on the practice, and empowered him to fulfill his mission. With this blessing, Avalokiteshvara aspired further "from each and every pore of my body, may I manifest Buddhas and Bodhisattvas according to the needs of all sentient beings. With these manifestations, may I liberate all sentient beings without leaving anyone behind. If I have of self-clinging, may my head crack into pieces". Buddha Amitabha praised him, "Well done. The Buddhas of the ten directions and three times and I have also developed the same enlightened attitude as you. We have made this aspiration and attained Enlightenment. I will assist you." Buddha Amitabha blessed his aspiration and empowered him further.

  Manifestation of Six Buddhas in the Six Realms
  Avalokiteshvara then radiated six lights from his body to the six realms of beings. Each light manifested as one Buddha.
  The six Buddhas are:
  Buddha Gyajin in the gods realm to subdue the pride of all gods and relieve their suffering;
  Buddha Thagzangri in the demi-gods realm to subdue their jealousy and relieve their suffering of constant fighting and warfare;
  Buddha Sakyamuni in the human realm to subdue their desire and relieve them from birth, old age, sickness and death;
  Buddha Senge Rabten in the animals realm to subdue their defilement of ignorance, and relieve their sufferings of being hunted, eaten and tortured;
  Buddha Namkhazod in the hungry ghost realm to subdue their defilement of miserliness, and relieve their suffering of hunger and thirst;
  Buddha Chokyi Gyalpo in the hell realm to subdue the defilement of hatred, and relieve the suffering of extreme hot and cold and other intense sufferings.
  Countless sentient beings were thus liberated.
  Manifestation of the Thousand-Armed Thousand-Eyes Avalokiteshvara and the Six-Syllable mantra.
  After some time, Avalokiteshvara thought that he would have reduced significantly the number of suffering sentient beings. When he gazed with his wisdom eye from Mount Meru, he was disappointed to find that the numbers had not decreased. He radiated his lights to the six realms another three times to liberate the sentient beings. When he checked again, he was disappointed. With despair, he thought, "Truly as what the Tathagatha has spoken, space is infinite; so likewise sentient beings are also infinite. I have liberated so many beings and yet their numbers have not decreased. Samsara has no end. I must liberate myself.
  With this degenerate thought, he broke his bodhisattva vow. His head cracked into a hundred pieces. With great repentance, he cried to Buddha Amitabha and all the Buddhas for help, "I have not accomplished my purpose and sentient beings’ purpose, please help me." Buddha Amitabha appeared, collected the hundred pieces of cracked skull, and transformed them into eleven heads. He blessed ten of them with peaceful appearances and one with wrathful appearance in order to subdue those who could not be subdued by peaceful means.
  Buddha Amitabha then instructed, "There is no beginning to samsara. There is also no end to samsara. You must benefit sentient beings until samsara ends

  http://www.purifymind.com/AryaAvalokiteshvara.htm

   

  /\

• Dawnfirstlight

  8 Aug 11, 23:24

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  easy question. :)

  pureland is also not a "place". like Nirvana, it's a puriest state of mind. hence how infinite samsara is, its how infinite pureland/Nirvana is. like Hua Yen Sutra states, the Mind-ground.

   

  "What is the Pureland really? The Pureland is one's own stainless primordial awareness. If, from moment to moment, you regain and retain your own primordial enlightened nature: that is the Pureland. Everything comes from your own mind. Understand that, remain there: that is the Pureland."

   

  this is so also for the dream-like heaven and hell. or samsara in a sense. when u dream of a place, how big is it? is there a beginning in ur dream?

  /\

   

  Yeah, I've heard of this explanation. I strongly believe that Pureland is unlike samsara which is measureable. It is more like emptiness which has no boundaries.

• 2009novice

  9 Aug 11, 00:22

  immeasureable boundaries.... but as far as I know, Pureland can be a place... not really a place that exist in a mindstate only

• Dawnfirstlight

  9 Aug 11, 08:29

  Amituofo is 无�寿，无�光, so I presume everything in Amituofo's Pureland is 无�, immeasureable.

• sinweiy

  9 Aug 11, 09:03

  Living beings are those receiving twelve kinds of rebirth:
  1. those born from wombs,
  2. those born from eggs,
  3. those born from moisture,
  4. those born by transformation, 化生
  5. those born with form,
  6. those born without form,
  7. those born with thought,
  8. those born without thought,
  9. those born not totally with form,
  10. those born not totally without form,
  11. those born not totally with thought, and
  12. those born not totally without thought.

  beings in heaven and hell are also 化生 transformation bodies. they don't have a physical meat body like human and animal realm.

  /\

• sinweiy

  9 Aug 11, 09:07

  Shurangama Sutra:
  “The womb-born, egg-born, moisture-born, and transformation-
  born come about in response: the egg-born come from
  thought, the womb-born are due to emotion, the moisture-born
  arise from union, and transformations occur through
  separation.
  Commentary:
  “The womb-born, egg-born, moisture-born, and transformation-
  born: these are four kinds of birth. The “womb-born” are
  mammals. The “egg-born” are feathered vertebrates – birds and the
  like. The “moisture-born” are creatures born out of water. The
  “transformation-born” are beings that change form – they seem to
  be there and then disappear. They seem not to be there and then
  appear.

  They “come about in response.” In every kind of birth there is
  a stimulus and a response. For instance, “The egg-born come from
  thought.” There must be four conditions present for birth from
  eggs to occur:
  1. the condition of a father,
  2. the condition of a mother,
  3. the condition of individual karma, and
  4. the condition of warmth.
  With them, the egg-born come from thought. For example, a
  mother hen sits on her eggs all day long; she gets unbearably hot,
  but she won’t get up. Once a day she leaves long enough to defecate
  and eat a little, and then she goes right back to sitting and thinking,
  “Come out, little chicks. Hatch, little ones.” That’s why it says that
  the egg-born come from thought.
  “The womb-born are due to emotion, the moisture-born
  arise from union.” Moisture-born beings can come about from two
  conditions:
  1. the condition of sunlight, and
  2. the condition of moisture.

  “Transformations occur through separation.” These beings are
  created from karma alone and are changeable. They appear and
  disappear; disappear and appear. Transformation is attributable to a
  strong desire for the new and a dislike for the old, hence it occurs
  through separation.

  Sutra:
  “Emotion, thought, union, and separation go through
  further changes, and from all the karma received one either
  rises or sinks. From these causes and conditions comes the
  continuity of living beings.

  Commentary:
  “Emotion, thought, union, and separation go through
  further changes.” There is a combined interaction involving
  change, over and over again. “And from all the karma received
  one either rises or sinks.” From the retribution undergone, beings
  vary from birds in the air to fish in the sea. “From these causes
  and conditions comes the continuity of living beings.”Living
  beings are those receiving twelve kinds of rebirth:
  1. those born from wombs,
  2. those born from eggs,
  3. those born from moisture,
  4. those born by transformation,
  5. those born with form,
  6. those born without form,
  7. those born with thought,
  8. those born without thought,
  9. those born not totally with form,
  10. those born not totally without form,
  11. those born not totally with thought, and
  12. those born not totally without thought.
  This is the ceaseless continuation of living beings. First we
  discussed the continuity of the world. Next we have discussed the
  continuity of living beings.

  /\