Humanist Society
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Members of this society believed in a "human-centred" life. This is a philosophy that humanists say affirms human beings as having the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape their own lives without turning to the supernatural. It promotes an ethical life based on reason, tolerance and compassion. It also says that all knowledge must be derived from evidence and reasoning.
Is Buddhism humanist?
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I started 2 threads in this forum. The other one on Islamic Calendar was locked. I don't know why. I had intended to draw visitors to some interesting observations. And one can get some insight.
For this thread on 'Humanist Society', there are visitors but no reply or comment. This is also an interesting observation!
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Hi I No Stupid,
Buddhism is not "humanist" if the definition is "all knowledge must be derived from evidence and reasoning."
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Originally posted by Synasta:
Hi I No Stupid,
Buddhism is not "humanist" if the definition is "all knowledge must be derived from evidence and reasoning."
Which is unfortunate because Buddhism has degenerated into a religion. Please read my post on faith in Hungry Ghost Month thread.
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Posted this 2 years ago:
Buddhism isn't about morality, humanism, etc.. but about awareness, ending the cycle of birth and death and attaining liberation from all sufferings. Humanism helps the world to become a better place but does not solve the root ignorance in human being that is perpetuating the cycle of rebirth and suffering.
Also, I said this many times before: religion has no monopoly over morality - even society and parents and teachers impart values of morality to people... Buddhism is not just about morality, it is far more than that - morality is only one out of three aspects of Buddhism. The three aspects of practice are Sila (morality, precepts), Samadhi (meditative concentration and absorption), Prajna (wisdom, insight into the nature of reality)... these three aspects must be accomplished for enlightenment and liberation.
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
Which is unfortunate because Buddhism has degenerated into a religion. Please read my post on faith in Hungry Ghost Month thread.
Personally i believe in things like supernatural powers, but even so these beliefs are irrevelant to the practice in Buddhism. Since they are mentioned to be only be verified empirically after reaching high meditative states, i would refrain from disregarding such things.
To Nirvana in 5 sentences:
One evening about two weeks ago I picked up the Samyutta Nikaya and stumbled over a short sutta which mesmerized me for the next two weeks. It is one of those short yet deep suttas which makes the Samyutta Nikaya so special. In this particular sutta the Buddha explains his entire teaching in five simple sentences. All those mountains of ink, hours of Dhamma talks, decades of spiritual search – reduced to five short sentences. A Buddha’s awakened humor
towards our desire to proliferate into eternity.It felt like a veritable Theravadin ZEN experience, staring at those couple of lines, knowing that all the wisdom you can develop through the Buddha’s teaching is contained in a few lines, a handful of words. In other words, it is (like many other suttas) a profound call for action and like many similar discourses of the Buddha it provides an instruction, a description of the process and a definition of progress and goal – exactly what someone who wants to replicate an experiment is looking for.
What is this sutta? What are those five sentences? Have a look:
“Aniccaññeva, bhikkhave, bhikkhu rÅ«paṃ aniccanti passati. SÄ�ssa hoti sammÄ�diá¹á¹hi. SammÄ� passaṃ nibbindati. NandikkhayÄ� rÄ�gakkhayo, rÄ�gakkhayÄ� nandikkhayo. NandirÄ�gakkhayÄ� cittaṃ vimuttaṃ suvimuttanti vuccati. Aniccaññeva, bhikkhave, bhikkhu vedanaṃ…saññaṃ…saá¹…khÄ�rÄ�…viññÄ�ṇaṃ aniccanti passati. SÄ�ssa hoti sammÄ�diá¹á¹hi. SammÄ� passaṃ nibbindati. NandikkhayÄ� rÄ�gakkhayo, rÄ�gakkhayÄ� nandikkhayo. NandirÄ�gakkhayÄ� cittaṃ vimuttaṃ suvimuttanti vuccati.” [Nandikkhayasuttaṃ, Samyutta Nikaya, Khandhasamyutta. PTS 3.51 for the five khandhas, PTS 4.141 parallel version with for the senses. Translation further below - want you to go through this slowly, step by step, to better see the beauty
. Todo: Learn this by heart.]Let’s simplify this and break it down:
Step 1 – This is what you have to do
Aniccaṃ rÅ«paṃ bhikkhu “aniccan” ti passati. The monks sees the impermanent form thus “impermanent”.
Aniccaṃ rÅ«paṃ … Impermanent form
bhikkhu … (the/a) monk
“aniccan” ti passati … he sees (passati) “impermanent” thus (aniccam iti) = He sees thus “impermanent”.Some necessary remarks regarding the “iti passati” in the sutta.
In a couple of older posts (here and here) we had been looking into this particular Sanskrit/Pali way of marking direct speech/thought and its application towards meditation. Pali like Sanskrit does not have what we call indirect speech. Everything you hear or think has to be expressed in a direct form in Pali, marked off with the word “iti” meaning “thus”. Interestingly enough, there is a very good way for a modern native speaker of English to understand this particular grammatical construct:
Translating the above into somewhat colloquial modern English we could say:
The impermanent form the monk sees like “impermanent”.
Here the Pali uses “thus” (iti) in a similar manner as the English”be like – quotative”. If you don’t know what that is please have a look at the following example:
B. Expressing the contents of one’s thought:
(Skt-2) manyate pÄ�pakam ká¹›tvÄ� ”na kaÅ›cid vetti mÄ�m” iti
“After committing some sins, one thinks ‘nobody knows me’.” [Mahabharata 1.74.29; cited from Speijer[1]:§493b](Eng-2) “And I thought like ’wow, this is for me’.” [OED, 2nd Supplement[2]; 1970, no earlier citations]
There are some great resources on this topic. If you are interested, have a look at the following links, with a lot more examples. But chances are you hear someone say “…and I like, wow, you did awesome” when you listen to (young) people talk.
- Great post on this topic: http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com/2010/09/english-like-can-like-function-like.html – see the note section below.
- Short intro: http://www.learnsanskrit.org/start/uninflected/itiva
- In depth discussion: “The syntax and semantics of be like quotatives” link http://homepage.univie.ac.at/glow34.linguistics/haddican.pdf – very interesting paper by Bill Haddican, Eytan Zweig and Daniel Johnson and their ppt presentation:
- http://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/~whaddican/wccflq.pdf
So what does that mean with regard to meditation practice? How do we “see something as impermanent”. Is it meditation with labels as practiced in Mahasi Vipassana meditation traditions? Some form of noting process? Or meant to be “thoughtless” after all?
First of all, I really think that this instruction is complete. There is no secret meditation instruction hidden. The native Pali (Prakrit) listener knew what he had to do after listening to the above instruction (see the verse of Malunkyaputta further below).
We should probably take this sentence itself as the meditation instruction. Clearly the Buddha refers to a process of ñÄ�ṇadassanÄ� or seeing-and-knowing time and again as the means of awakening – and this line is a perfect example of “knowing and seeing”. The Buddha refers to something that is not just “ordinary” seeing (otherwise: bhikkhu aniccam rupam passati). It is also not an exercise in thinking (otherwise: “bhikkhu rupassa aniccatam cinteti”).
Rather it has to do with kind of an observation (here in form of the verb passati; elsewhere as samanupassati or paccavekkhati). An observation which needs to be close to real time of sense-contact (otherwise there is no way to see the impermanence of forms, feeling etc.).
This clearly is an indicator of a meditative environment in which this “experiment” needs to be conducted. At the same time there seems to be an element of “knowing” which has to go along with that observation. Similar to an “addiction” we cannot expect any results “all of a sudden” (in most cases) – it will take some time. That “knowing” part of the meditative exercise has to recognize the fundamental characteristic of form, feeling…cognition. Impermanence. Whether “tagging” that experience mentally as such with a short label or not is the way to go can easily be tested if we look at step no.3 below, which defines a very precise milestone to judge our progress.
Two further quotes on this topic:
‘‘Sukhaṃ vÄ� yadi vÄ� dukkhaṃ, adukkhamasukhaṃ saha;
Ajjhattañca bahiddhÄ� ca, yaṃ kiñci atthi veditaṃ. ‘‘Etaṃ dukkhanti ñatvÄ�na, mosadhammaṃ palokinaṃ [palokitaṃ (sÄ«.)]
Phussa phussa vayaṃ passaṃ, evaṃ tattha vij�nati [virajjati (ka. sī.)]
VedanÄ�naṃ khayÄ� bhikkhu, nicchÄ�to parinibbuto’’ti.From the amazing Dvayatanupassana Sutta in the Sutta Nipata, v.743-44:
“Pleasant or painful, neither pleasant nor painful also,
Inside or from outside – whatever there is to be felt:
Having perceived it “this is painful” thus,
A treacherous thing, bound to breaking up again,
Hit and hit (over and over by sense-contact) while seeing the passing away -
There, in such a way, he knows [or: he becomes dispassionate - altern. reading].
Through the destruction of feelings the monk becomes desireless, fully extinguished.and similarly:
‘‘Na so rajjati rÅ«pesu, rÅ«paṃ disvÄ� paá¹issato;
Virattacitto vedeti, tañca nÄ�jjhosa tiá¹á¹hati.
‘‘YathÄ�ssa passato rÅ«paṃ, sevato cÄ�pi vedanaṃ;
Khīyati nopacīyati, evaṃ so caratī sato;
Evaṃ apacinato dukkhaṃ, santike nibb�namuccati.
He does not delight in forms, having seen a form he remembers (lit. back-remembers, i.e. comes back to his meditation object)
With a dispassionate mind he feels it, and does not grasp (does not rest) on this form. When he sees form like that, and experiences feeling in such a way,
It falls away, it does not amass, thus he practices remembering/witnessing.
Thus suffering/pain is reduced, and close is he to the extinction (Nibbana), they say.
[For more info on this passage see this post: Malunkyaputta's vipassana instruction]Step 2 – Look, 8-fold path, 4 noble truth – all included!
SÄ� assa hoti sammÄ�diá¹á¹hi. This is his right view.
SÄ� … (fem. sg. pron.) This (fem.), She [right view]
assa … to him, his
hoti … is
sammÄ�diá¹á¹hi … right view.Fascinating. So the above way of looking at form (and feeling, perception, mental activities and cognition) – seeing those five elements (or what constitutes the entirety of our “being” in each conscious moment) as impermanent is – according to the Buddha in this sutta – the practice of right view. Right view is not an opinion. It is a way of observing ourselves in a real-time psychological manner without giving thoughts and mental constructs any habitat. As the brahmins at the time of the Buddha used to say, after learning about the Buddha’s teaching – “wow, all we ever studied was hear-say (itihasa) – your teaching is timeless, immediate”.
Again, right view is explained in many Sutta’s as the realization of the four noble truths. Here the Buddha summarizes in one line, that the real realization of the four noble truths is born out of the simple observation of nature. Knowing suffering/pain, its origin, its cessation and even the path(!) will be understood and realized by the student who applies himself to step 1. If stream entry is your true goal, put your books away
Step 3 – This is what will happen to you – and if it doesn’t something is wrong.
Samm� passaṃ nibbindati. Seeing correctly he becomes disenchanted.
SammÄ� … Right, correct.
passaṃ … seeing (pres. part.)
nibbindati … he gets fed up with, wearied of, satiated, disgusted with, disenchanted, disillusioned. Literally from nir+vindati – to find (vindati) nothing [see http://glossary.buddhistdoor.com/en/word/98321/nibbindati].So here we get a wonderful guideline for our meditation. According to the Buddha our mode of observation has to lead to nibbida – some kind of “disgust, dissatisfaction, disenchantment” with the five aggregates. If it does that, we are on the right path. If we see more delusion or infatuation then something about our approach must be wrong.
Step 4 – Watch out for a transformation to occur
Nandikkhay� r�gakkhayo, r�gakkhay� nandikkhayo. With the waning of delight wanes passion. With the waning of passion wanes delight.
nandi… delight, fun.
rÄ�ga… passion, color, desire.
khayo … destruction, waning, decay.This formula is quite particular. The first thing I am reminded of is the simile of “love lost” where the Buddha equates the term nandi-raga with the passion/emotion we feel towards someone we believe belongs to us, but who betrays us and thus creates pain. He doesnt even say “this is similar” – no, he uses the exact same expression. See that post here, for cross-reference and more details here.
Look at this nice list for how the word ksaya (sanskr.) was associated: http://vedabase.net/k/ksaya
Step 5 – And finally, you are done. Awakened like the Buddha.
NandirÄ�gakkhayÄ� cittaṃ vimuttaṃ, “suvimuttan” ti vuccati. With the destruction of delight and passion the mind is de-tached. “Fully de-tached” thus it is said.
NandirÄ�gakkhayÄ� … from the delight-passion-destruction (abl).
cittaṃ … the mind.
vimuttaṃ… vimutta (ppp. from muñcati – to loosen, release) = detached, or even closer “vi- (ab-) mutta (geloest)” in German.
“suvimuttam” iti vuccati …. “well-freed” thus it is called.A perfect description of “enlightenment” or “awakening” by the Buddha. Clear, straight forward, almost clinical in its description of what the Arahants mind “feels” like from the inside. If you share this truly, congratulations, kata-kiccham – your job is done.
What else needs to be said?
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Posted this 2 years ago:
Buddhism isn't about morality, humanism, etc.. but about awareness, ending the cycle of birth and death and attaining liberation from all sufferings. Humanism helps the world to become a better place but does not solve the root ignorance in human being that is perpetuating the cycle of rebirth and suffering.
Also, I said this many times before: religion has no monopoly over morality - even society and parents and teachers impart values of morality to people... Buddhism is not just about morality, it is far more than that - morality is only one out of three aspects of Buddhism. The three aspects of practice are Sila (morality, precepts), Samadhi (meditative concentration and absorption), Prajna (wisdom, insight into the nature of reality)... these three aspects must be accomplished for enlightenment and liberation.
Agreed, that's why I didn't press the morality button. In so far as moral values and spiritual virtues are concerned: teachers, parents and philosophers impart them - Confuscius was one.
As for Buddhism, the foundation or core tenet is freedom from suffering. In this regards, it is also about making life better, i.e "helps the world to become a better place". One who has attained liberation is not only a happy person but also a 'better' person. Isn't this in line with humanist ideals?
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
Agreed, that's why I didn't press the morality button. In so far as moral values and spiritual virtues are concerned: teachers, parents and philosophers impart them - Confuscius was one.
As for Buddhism, the foundation or core tenet is freedom from suffering. In this regards, it is also about making life better, i.e "helps the world to become a better place". One who has attained liberation is not only a happy person but also a 'better' person. Isn't this in line with humanist ideals?
I must apologize if I do not answer correctly, but I do not fully understand your question.
As AEN said, there are three aspects of practice, morality being one of them because we should aim to save not only ourselves but also to save all sentient beings.
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Originally posted by Synasta:
Personally i believe in things like supernatural powers, but even so these beliefs are irrevelant to the practice in Buddhism. Since they are mentioned to be only be verified empirically after reaching high meditative states, i would refrain from disregarding such things.
To Nirvana in 5 sentences:
One evening about two weeks ago I picked up the Samyutta Nikaya and stumbled over a short sutta which mesmerized me for the next two weeks. It is one of those short yet deep suttas which makes the Samyutta Nikaya so special. In this particular sutta the Buddha explains his entire teaching in five simple sentences. All those mountains of ink, hours of Dhamma talks, decades of spiritual search – reduced to five short sentences. A Buddha’s awakened humor
towards our desire to proliferate into eternity.It felt like a veritable Theravadin ZEN experience, staring at those couple of lines, knowing that all the wisdom you can develop through the Buddha’s teaching is contained in a few lines, a handful of words. In other words, it is (like many other suttas) a profound call for action and like many similar discourses of the Buddha it provides an instruction, a description of the process and a definition of progress and goal – exactly what someone who wants to replicate an experiment is looking for.
What is this sutta? What are those five sentences? Have a look:
Let’s simplify this and break it down:
Step 1 – This is what you have to do
Aniccaṃ rÅ«paṃ bhikkhu “aniccan” ti passati. The monks sees the impermanent form thus “impermanent”.
Aniccaṃ rÅ«paṃ … Impermanent form
bhikkhu … (the/a) monk
“aniccan” ti passati … he sees (passati) “impermanent” thus (aniccam iti) = He sees thus “impermanent”.Some necessary remarks regarding the “iti passati” in the sutta.
In a couple of older posts (here and here) we had been looking into this particular Sanskrit/Pali way of marking direct speech/thought and its application towards meditation. Pali like Sanskrit does not have what we call indirect speech. Everything you hear or think has to be expressed in a direct form in Pali, marked off with the word “iti” meaning “thus”. Interestingly enough, there is a very good way for a modern native speaker of English to understand this particular grammatical construct:
Translating the above into somewhat colloquial modern English we could say:
The impermanent form the monk sees like “impermanent”.
Here the Pali uses “thus” (iti) in a similar manner as the English”be like – quotative”. If you don’t know what that is please have a look at the following example:
There are some great resources on this topic. If you are interested, have a look at the following links, with a lot more examples. But chances are you hear someone say “…and I like, wow, you did awesome” when you listen to (young) people talk.
- Great post on this topic: http://staefcraeft.blogspot.com/2010/09/english-like-can-like-function-like.html – see the note section below.
- Short intro: http://www.learnsanskrit.org/start/uninflected/itiva
- In depth discussion: “The syntax and semantics of be like quotatives” link http://homepage.univie.ac.at/glow34.linguistics/haddican.pdf – very interesting paper by Bill Haddican, Eytan Zweig and Daniel Johnson and their ppt presentation:
- http://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/~whaddican/wccflq.pdf
So what does that mean with regard to meditation practice? How do we “see something as impermanent”. Is it meditation with labels as practiced in Mahasi Vipassana meditation traditions? Some form of noting process? Or meant to be “thoughtless” after all?
First of all, I really think that this instruction is complete. There is no secret meditation instruction hidden. The native Pali (Prakrit) listener knew what he had to do after listening to the above instruction (see the verse of Malunkyaputta further below).
We should probably take this sentence itself as the meditation instruction. Clearly the Buddha refers to a process of ñÄ�ṇadassanÄ� or seeing-and-knowing time and again as the means of awakening – and this line is a perfect example of “knowing and seeing”. The Buddha refers to something that is not just “ordinary” seeing (otherwise: bhikkhu aniccam rupam passati). It is also not an exercise in thinking (otherwise: “bhikkhu rupassa aniccatam cinteti”).
Rather it has to do with kind of an observation (here in form of the verb passati; elsewhere as samanupassati or paccavekkhati). An observation which needs to be close to real time of sense-contact (otherwise there is no way to see the impermanence of forms, feeling etc.).
This clearly is an indicator of a meditative environment in which this “experiment” needs to be conducted. At the same time there seems to be an element of “knowing” which has to go along with that observation. Similar to an “addiction” we cannot expect any results “all of a sudden” (in most cases) – it will take some time. That “knowing” part of the meditative exercise has to recognize the fundamental characteristic of form, feeling…cognition. Impermanence. Whether “tagging” that experience mentally as such with a short label or not is the way to go can easily be tested if we look at step no.3 below, which defines a very precise milestone to judge our progress.
Two further quotes on this topic:
‘‘Sukhaṃ vÄ� yadi vÄ� dukkhaṃ, adukkhamasukhaṃ saha;
Ajjhattañca bahiddhÄ� ca, yaṃ kiñci atthi veditaṃ. ‘‘Etaṃ dukkhanti ñatvÄ�na, mosadhammaṃ palokinaṃ [palokitaṃ (sÄ«.)]
Phussa phussa vayaṃ passaṃ, evaṃ tattha vij�nati [virajjati (ka. sī.)]
VedanÄ�naṃ khayÄ� bhikkhu, nicchÄ�to parinibbuto’’ti.From the amazing Dvayatanupassana Sutta in the Sutta Nipata, v.743-44:
“Pleasant or painful, neither pleasant nor painful also,
Inside or from outside – whatever there is to be felt:
Having perceived it “this is painful” thus,
A treacherous thing, bound to breaking up again,
Hit and hit (over and over by sense-contact) while seeing the passing away -
There, in such a way, he knows [or: he becomes dispassionate - altern. reading].
Through the destruction of feelings the monk becomes desireless, fully extinguished.and similarly:
‘‘Na so rajjati rÅ«pesu, rÅ«paṃ disvÄ� paá¹issato;
Virattacitto vedeti, tañca nÄ�jjhosa tiá¹á¹hati.
‘‘YathÄ�ssa passato rÅ«paṃ, sevato cÄ�pi vedanaṃ;
Khīyati nopacīyati, evaṃ so caratī sato;
Evaṃ apacinato dukkhaṃ, santike nibb�namuccati.He does not delight in forms, having seen a form he remembers (lit. back-remembers, i.e. comes back to his meditation object)
With a dispassionate mind he feels it, and does not grasp (does not rest) on this form. When he sees form like that, and experiences feeling in such a way,
It falls away, it does not amass, thus he practices remembering/witnessing.
Thus suffering/pain is reduced, and close is he to the extinction (Nibbana), they say.
[For more info on this passage see this post: Malunkyaputta's vipassana instruction]Step 2 – Look, 8-fold path, 4 noble truth – all included!
SÄ� assa hoti sammÄ�diá¹á¹hi. This is his right view.
SÄ� … (fem. sg. pron.) This (fem.), She [right view]
assa … to him, his
hoti … is
sammÄ�diá¹á¹hi … right view.Fascinating. So the above way of looking at form (and feeling, perception, mental activities and cognition) – seeing those five elements (or what constitutes the entirety of our “being” in each conscious moment) as impermanent is – according to the Buddha in this sutta – the practice of right view. Right view is not an opinion. It is a way of observing ourselves in a real-time psychological manner without giving thoughts and mental constructs any habitat. As the brahmins at the time of the Buddha used to say, after learning about the Buddha’s teaching – “wow, all we ever studied was hear-say (itihasa) – your teaching is timeless, immediate”.
Again, right view is explained in many Sutta’s as the realization of the four noble truths. Here the Buddha summarizes in one line, that the real realization of the four noble truths is born out of the simple observation of nature. Knowing suffering/pain, its origin, its cessation and even the path(!) will be understood and realized by the student who applies himself to step 1. If stream entry is your true goal, put your books away
Step 3 – This is what will happen to you – and if it doesn’t something is wrong.
Samm� passaṃ nibbindati. Seeing correctly he becomes disenchanted.
SammÄ� … Right, correct.
passaṃ … seeing (pres. part.)
nibbindati … he gets fed up with, wearied of, satiated, disgusted with, disenchanted, disillusioned. Literally from nir+vindati – to find (vindati) nothing [see http://glossary.buddhistdoor.com/en/word/98321/nibbindati].So here we get a wonderful guideline for our meditation. According to the Buddha our mode of observation has to lead to nibbida – some kind of “disgust, dissatisfaction, disenchantment” with the five aggregates. If it does that, we are on the right path. If we see more delusion or infatuation then something about our approach must be wrong.
Step 4 – Watch out for a transformation to occur
Nandikkhay� r�gakkhayo, r�gakkhay� nandikkhayo. With the waning of delight wanes passion. With the waning of passion wanes delight.
nandi… delight, fun.
rÄ�ga… passion, color, desire.
khayo … destruction, waning, decay.This formula is quite particular. The first thing I am reminded of is the simile of “love lost” where the Buddha equates the term nandi-raga with the passion/emotion we feel towards someone we believe belongs to us, but who betrays us and thus creates pain. He doesnt even say “this is similar” – no, he uses the exact same expression. See that post here, for cross-reference and more details here.
Look at this nice list for how the word ksaya (sanskr.) was associated: http://vedabase.net/k/ksaya
Step 5 – And finally, you are done. Awakened like the Buddha.
NandirÄ�gakkhayÄ� cittaṃ vimuttaṃ, “suvimuttan” ti vuccati. With the destruction of delight and passion the mind is de-tached. “Fully de-tached” thus it is said.
NandirÄ�gakkhayÄ� … from the delight-passion-destruction (abl).
cittaṃ … the mind.
vimuttaṃ… vimutta (ppp. from muñcati – to loosen, release) = detached, or even closer “vi- (ab-) mutta (geloest)” in German.
“suvimuttam” iti vuccati …. “well-freed” thus it is called.A perfect description of “enlightenment” or “awakening” by the Buddha. Clear, straight forward, almost clinical in its description of what the Arahants mind “feels” like from the inside. If you share this truly, congratulations, kata-kiccham – your job is done.
What else needs to be said?
Yours is a long post, not sure if you deserve a short reply from me.
Basically, the sutta expands and reinforces the Noble Truths. Impermanence (nature of things/existence), sensual desires (cravings, deligh, passion), detachment - free from attachment (mental).
There is another keyword - 'observation'. Isn't this what science is about too?
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Originally posted by Beautiful951:
I must apologize if I do not answer correctly, but I do not fully understand your question.
As AEN said, there are three aspects of practice, morality being one of them because we should aim to save not only ourselves but also to save all sentient beings.
Sorry, I do not know what you are asking? However, I posed a question for AEN.
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No comment.
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
Yours is a long post, not sure if you deserve a short reply from me.
Basically, the sutta expands and reinforces the Noble Truths. Impermanence (nature of things/existence), sensual desires (cravings, deligh, passion), detachment - free from attachment (mental).
There is another keyword - 'observation'. Isn't this what science is about too?
It's not my article.
Since you do not like associating Buddhism with what you see as unnecessary baggage (i.e. supernatural powers and hungry ghosts) I posted the article for you about cultivating the Buddhist practice without such things. Nothing out of the world, just observing your mind correctly.
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Originally posted by Synasta:
It's not my article.
Since you do not like associating Buddhism with what you see as unnecessary baggage (i.e. supernatural powers and hungry ghosts) I posted the article for you about cultivating the Buddhist practice without such things. Nothing out of the world, just observing your mind correctly.
I see, might be a good idea to state at the beginning you are pasting an article.
If you look at the core of Buddhism, there is no place for supernatural powers of beings whether god or ghost.
In fact, one can pursue the path of realization without believing in such powers or beings!
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If that suits you, then good.. However,
"If you look at the core of Buddhism, there is no place for supernatural powers of beings whether god or ghost."
I am curious to how you came to this conclusion. Where did you read and how did you verify the authenticity of the Buddha's teaching from?
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Core of Buddhism... Which sutra relates to it?
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Originally posted by Synasta:
If that suits you, then good.. However,
"If you look at the core of Buddhism, there is no place for supernatural powers of beings whether god or ghost."
I am curious to how you came to this conclusion. Where did you read and how did you verify the authenticity of the Buddha's teaching from?
Obviously, you have no idea of 'the core of Buddhism'. Many 'Buddhists' are so caught up with the peripherals of Buddhism - such as supernatural powers, ghosts, etc. And also paraphernalia such as statues, tooth relic, manga beads, etc.
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Originally posted by Aneslayer:
Core of Buddhism... Which sutra relates to it?
Since you like sutra, start with Kalama Sutra and chant it day-in and day-out. In 20 years you will realised the core of Buddhism.
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
Obviously, you have no idea of 'the core of Buddhism'. Many 'Buddhists' are so caught up with the peripherals of Buddhism - such as supernatural powers, ghosts, etc. And also paraphernalia such as statues, tooth relic, manga beads, etc.
May I ask what you think is the core of buddhism?
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
Agreed, that's why I didn't press the morality button. In so far as moral values and spiritual virtues are concerned: teachers, parents and philosophers impart them - Confuscius was one.
As for Buddhism, the foundation or core tenet is freedom from suffering. In this regards, it is also about making life better, i.e "helps the world to become a better place". One who has attained liberation is not only a happy person but also a 'better' person. Isn't this in line with humanist ideals?
Humanism is good, but Buddhism is above humanism and beyond just "a secular ideology which espouses reason, ethics, and justice, ".
The achievement of the complete end of suffering is only taught in Buddhism - no others think it is possible, only Buddha have experienced and taught it and so does his students.
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Originally posted by Beautiful951:
May I ask what you think is the core of buddhism?
Like Synasta who was able to extract and paste Buddhist sutra, you have no idea of the core of Buddhism.
I m not sure what you are asking. Are you asking me to think?
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Humanism is good, but Buddhism is above humanism and beyond just "a secular ideology which espouses reason, ethics, and justice, ".
The achievement of the complete end of suffering is only taught in Buddhism - no others think it is possible, only Buddha have experienced and taught it and so does his students.
Of course humanism is secular because it does not subscribe to a particular 'religious' doctrine. Its ideals are really 'naturalistic', down-to-earth', not in some superlative planes or supernatural sphere.
Buddhism in its early beginning was concerned with cessation of suffering - both physical (worldly) and psychological (mental). It was not about attaining some idealism or altruism. Buddha in his last day urged his followers to pursue their own liberation with diligence, not by ritual or by belief in supernatural.
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
Obviously, you have no idea of 'the core of Buddhism'. Many 'Buddhists' are so caught up with the peripherals of Buddhism - such as supernatural powers, ghosts, etc. And also paraphernalia such as statues, tooth relic, manga beads, etc.
As you refuse to let me know where you derive your teachings of the Buddha from, there is no point continuing this discussion.
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Originally posted by Synasta:
As you refuse to let me know where you derive your teachings of the Buddha from, there is no point continuing this discussion.
You asked me about 'core of Buddhism' right?
Now you ask "where you derive your teachings of the Buddha from"?
Answer, I did not derive any teaching nor make any teaching.
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According to Buddhism, the foremost truth about the human condition is the existence of dukkha. The term dukkha connotes all disappointments, frustrations, discontents, unhappiness as well as the unsatisfactory state of affairs characteristic of the world of mental and physical nature. The persistence of dukkha in all its different forms is dependent on the activity of unwholesome mental processes referred to in Buddhism as asava (influxes), anusaya (latent evil) and kilesa (psychological defilements). All inner psychological conflicts as well as conflicts produced in society are traced in Buddhism to these psychological causes. All sufferings / conflicts, according to the Buddhist view, originate in the minds of people. Buddhist teachings maintain that the mental processes referred to as unskilled or unwholesome (P. akusala) determine the behaviour of the large majority of living beings.
Conflict in society is therefore, considered in Buddhism to be endemic. The Sakkapaiiha Sutta draws attention to this as follows: Devas, men, Asuras, Nagas, Gandhabbas and whatever other different kinds of communities are there, it occurs to them that they ought to live without mutual hatred, violence, enmity and malice. Yet for all they live with mutual hatred, violence and malice. There is no doubt that in the modem civilized world, aggression motivated by imperialist and expansionist intentions is subjected to universal condemnation. Similarly deprivation of human rights and oppression of the weak by the strong is also widely open to moral condemnation. However, it is to be noted that each party currently engaged in war attempts to show that violence is the only alternative available to achieve what is perceived to be the righteous cause. The point made by the Buddha in this connection is that people are psychologically incapable of forming opinions about what is right and wrong, just and unjust, righteous and unrighteous while being immersed in their defiled psychological condition. They may express strong convictions about what is just and right, but when objectively examined they turn out to be mere rationalizations of their pre-conceived notions, desires, cravings, likes and dislikes. When the unwholesome roots of motivation are removed conflicts and disputes no longer arise. When people make decisions about what is right and wrong, just and unjust while they are still affected by the roots of evil, greed, hatred and delusion their judgements are mere rationalizations.
In several other contexts such as the Kalahavivada Sutta and Mahanidana Sutta, the Buddha explains the psychological origins of such conflict. Conflict is explained in these instances as a consequence of an unenlightened response to one's sensory environment. As long as people lack an insightful understanding of the mechanical nature of the reactions to the sensory environment produced by unwholesome roots of psychological motivation conflict in society cannot be avoided. Buddhism traces conflict in society to certain instinctual responses of people such as the attraction to what is pleasant, the repulsion against what is unpleasant, the pursuit of what gives pleasure, the psychological friction against what produces displeasure, the great desire to protect one's own possessions, the irritable feeling experienced when other persons enjoy possessions that one is incapable of acquiring, competing claims on limited resources, ideological disagreements involving dogmatic clinging to one's own view and so on. The selfish pursuit of sense pleasures (P. klima) is considered as the root cause of conflict. Where there is sympathetic concern, compassion, sharing, charitableness and generosity conflict can be minimized. The latter attitudes, however, are not instinctive. They need to be cultivated through proper reflection and insightful understanding.
May the merits of this sharing (if any) be transferred to all suffering living beings and an everlasting world of humanity bliss, peace and love.
Namo Amitabha Buddha _/|\_
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Originally posted by I No Stupid:
Since you like sutra, start with Kalama Sutra and chant it day-in and day-out. In 20 years you will realised the core of Buddhism.
Which means that you did not realise the core of buddhism.