Originally posted by Aik TC:
You seems to lay great emphasis that Mother Teresa and in one of your other post, that Prince Siddhartha are just Human Beings. I believe in your opinion, the same would also apply to the like of Jesus Christ and the Prophet Muhammad? Yes, we all start out and end our existence in this world with an outer appearance of a human being. But really, other than outer appearance, are we all ‘humans’ when we passed on from this world? Why do some get labeled as Saints, Arhats, Bodhisattva, Buddha and even Son of God? It is because during their live on earth they have raised themselves way beyond the scope, consciousness and capability of what one would normally associate what normal humans, where their words and their deeds would not just affect the lives of the people of their generation but also generations and generations after that. That’s why we do not called or look upon such personalities as mere human beings anymore after what they have done for the human race. The labels are also a sign of respect and veneration we have for them.
Correction: Mother Teresa was first mentioned by another and I merely followed thru and equated Catholic sainthood with Buddhist bodhisattva. Whether labels or names, these are how we conventionally identify, associate or attribute something, quality, characteristics, etc. If you don't want to use 'label' you can also use pictograph - an image of a saint or bodhisattva - usually a halo above or around the head. So, don't be overtly 'dogmatic' about the Buddhist ideology on 'labelling' which I am familiar too. The only difference b/w you and me over 'labelling' is that I don't get stuck in its dogma.
Having said all these, I recognised that there are humans with very special, exceptional, rare, extra-ordinary characteristics or abilities but I do not elevate them to some divine, god-like beings, whatever label you may use. Therefore, it is not the ‘label’ that is an issue which unfortunately seemed to be the ‘problem’ with visitors here. I am not hankering over label!
It is human nature or desire to glorify, eulogise, glamorise, honour, gratify, deitify by way of names and titles (labels). For instance, Elizabeth Reginald II (Queen of England) is Her Royal Highness; Joseph Aloisius Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) is His Holiness, and the label ‘Dalai’ given to Tenzin Gyatso (14th Dalai Lama) means ‘ocean of wisdom’.
In this thread on reincarnation, I extract from the website of 14th Dalai Lama (reincarnation of the 13th Dalai Lama): The Dalai Lamas are believed to be manifestations of Avalokiteshvara or Chenrezig, the Bodhisattva of Compassion and patron saint of Tibet. Bodhisattvas are enlightened beings who have postponed their own nirvana and chosen to take rebirth in order to serve humanity.
The point to bring here in this thread on reincarnation is: Buddhism does believe in reincarnation. Note the words in the above para – bodhisattva and patron saint. Therefore, Buddhism is no different from other religions/cultures/traditions in deitifying human beings.
I No Stupid......
//So, don't be overtly 'dogmatic' about the Buddhist ideology on 'labelling' which I am familiar too//
So, I believe you are familiar with the ‘Buddhist Theory of Names’?
By the way, how did you arrive at the conclusion that visitors here and I are stuck with this dogma and labeling? Isn’t it a rather unsubstantiated judgment?
//It is human nature or desire to glorify, eulogise, glamorise, honour, gratify, deitify by way of names and titles (labels).//
It may be true in some cases, but as far as I am concern, we humans are different from other forms of lives on earth due to our abilities to conceptualize our thoughts, tag names and labels on them to distinguish their differences so that it can be communicated to all in an intelligible and much wider scope than the higher forms of animals. As for human nature to glorify etc by way of names and titles I do not believe in my opinion, most of us ordinary folks would care to do so, as if it is not so, it would be plain dishonest and no many would even care or notice such labels in the first place.
Originally posted by Aik TC:
I No Stupid......
//So, don't be overtly 'dogmatic' about the Buddhist ideology on 'labelling' which I am familiar too//
So, I believe you are familiar with the ‘Buddhist Theory of Names’?
By the way, how did you arrive at the conclusion that visitors here and I are stuck with this dogma and labeling? Isn’t it a rather unsubstantiated judgment?
//It is human nature or desire to glorify, eulogise, glamorise, honour, gratify, deitify by way of names and titles (labels).//
It may be true in some cases, but as far as I am concern, we humans are different from other forms of lives on earth due to our abilities to conceptualize our thoughts, tag names and labels on them to distinguish their differences so that it can be communicated to all in an intelligible and much wider scope than the higher forms of animals. As for human nature to glorify etc by way of names and titles I do not believe in my opinion, most of us ordinary folks would care to do so, as if it is not so, it would be plain dishonest and no many would even care or notice such labels in the first place.
At least a few posts talked about labelling before you. And I know some people are stuck in this and other forums. If you are not, most likely you won't mention 'label'.
I am fine with names to identify or distinguish. However, I was talking about titles or 'labels' or ‘tags’ as honorific - a way to distinguish status, hierarchy, position, and recognition. And this is usually associated with desire to glorify, eulogise, glamorise, honour, gratify, deity, elevate, or to venerate. What then is Venerable?
Humans are different from other forms of life only to one extent – mental capability. Otherwise, we are no different – eat, sleep, shit, sex. And I won’t even say human is ‘higher’. You see the problem here? The desire to elevate, distinguish, to honour oneself?
Other forms of life displayed their own intelligence, communication ability, survival ability, reproduction ability, etc. We think we are smarter than cockroaches but do you think we can survive better in a similar environment/condition? Nature is concerned about continuation of the specie not individual life. So-called human ‘intelligence’ is also about survival. Human intelligence is directed at survival, better life, better living conditions and eliminating suffering.
Don’t you think this is also the ‘intelligence’ in Buddhism?
I No Stupid......
I think the discussion is getting diverted, so I shall stop here.
Bless be.
Originally posted by I No Stupid:At least a few posts talked about labelling before you. And I know some people are stuck in this and other forums. If you are not, most likely you won't mention 'label'.
I am fine with names to identify or distinguish. However, I was talking about titles or 'labels' or ‘tags’ as honorific - a way to distinguish status, hierarchy, position, and recognition. And this is usually associated with desire to glorify, eulogise, glamorise, honour, gratify, deity, elevate, or to venerate. What then is Venerable?
Humans are different from other forms of life only to one extent – mental capability. Otherwise, we are no different – eat, sleep, shit, sex. And I won’t even say human is ‘higher’. You see the problem here? The desire to elevate, distinguish, to honour oneself?
Other forms of life displayed their own intelligence, communication ability, survival ability, reproduction ability, etc. We think we are smarter than cockroaches but do you think we can survive better in a similar environment/condition? Nature is concerned about continuation of the specie not individual life. So-called human ‘intelligence’ is also about survival. Human intelligence is directed at survival, better life, better living conditions and eliminating suffering.
Don’t you think this is also the ‘intelligence’ in Buddhism?
"Humans are different from other forms of life only to one extent – mental capability. Otherwise, we are no different – eat, sleep, shit, sex. And I won’t even say human is ‘higher’. You see the problem here? The desire to elevate, distinguish, to honour oneself?"
I hope you meant to say you wouldn't mind if people starts calling you worse than animal...
"I am fine with names to identify or distinguish. However, I was talking about titles or 'labels' or ‘tags’ as honorific - a way to distinguish status, hierarchy, position, and recognition. And this is usually associated with desire to glorify, eulogise, glamorise, honour, gratify, deity, elevate, or to venerate. What then is Venerable?"
Why would one resist sincere honoring? Same as I honor Aik TC for his wisdom not so long ago...
"Other forms of life displayed their own intelligence, communication ability, survival ability, reproduction ability, etc. We think we are smarter than cockroaches but do you think we can survive better in a similar environment/condition? Nature is concerned about continuation of the specie not individual life. So-called human ‘intelligence’ is also about survival. Human intelligence is directed at survival, better life, better living conditions and eliminating suffering"
Nature states, the fittest survive. No 1st, no 2nd, no last.
You also raise the issue of rat race, that is a human construct, different from nature, at least on the functional side... Or did I just spot a slippery slope fallacy?
Originally posted by Aneslayer:"Humans are different from other forms of life only to one extent – mental capability. Otherwise, we are no different – eat, sleep, shit, sex. And I won’t even say human is ‘higher’. You see the problem here? The desire to elevate, distinguish, to honour oneself?"
I hope you meant to say you wouldn't mind if people starts calling you worse than animal...
"I am fine with names to identify or distinguish. However, I was talking about titles or 'labels' or ‘tags’ as honorific - a way to distinguish status, hierarchy, position, and recognition. And this is usually associated with desire to glorify, eulogise, glamorise, honour, gratify, deity, elevate, or to venerate. What then is Venerable?"
Why would one resist sincere honoring? Same as I honor Aik TC for his wisdom not so long ago...
"Other forms of life displayed their own intelligence, communication ability, survival ability, reproduction ability, etc. We think we are smarter than cockroaches but do you think we can survive better in a similar environment/condition? Nature is concerned about continuation of the specie not individual life. So-called human ‘intelligence’ is also about survival. Human intelligence is directed at survival, better life, better living conditions and eliminating suffering"
Nature states, the fittest survive. No 1st, no 2nd, no last.
You also raise the issue of rat race, that is a human construct, different from nature, at least on the functional side... Or did I just spot a slippery slope fallacy?
1. hahaha, if people want to call me animal or worse than animal, that is fine. After all human is part of the animal kingdom. You are descendant of a primate, a cousin of today’s ape! On the Buddhism side, I wish to ask those who called me animal whether they believed in rebirth.
2. There is a line between recognising one’s ability and venerating.
3. The law of the jungle is survival of the fittest or by adaptation (Darwin’s theory of evolution). I did not raise the issue of rat race – only cockroach. By the way, it is intelligent human who chose to enter the rat race.
"hahaha, if people want to call me animal or worse than animal, that is fine. After all human is part of the animal kingdom. You are descendant of a primate, a cousin of today’s ape! On the Buddhism side, I wish to ask those who called me animal whether they believed in rebirth."
Ah Meng was my brother, not cousin you animal...
"There is a line between recognising one’s ability and venerating."
No one says there isn't... One cannot stop ppl from doing a goodwill... however exploitive it can turn out to be.
"So-called human ‘intelligence’ is also about survival. Human intelligence is directed at survival, better life, better living conditions and eliminating suffering"
You senile? What are you relating there^ if not a rat race?
Originally posted by Aneslayer:"hahaha, if people want to call me animal or worse than animal, that is fine. After all human is part of the animal kingdom. You are descendant of a primate, a cousin of today’s ape! On the Buddhism side, I wish to ask those who called me animal whether they believed in rebirth."
Ah Meng was my brother, not cousin you animal...
"There is a line between recognising one’s ability and venerating."
No one says there isn't... One cannot stop ppl from doing a goodwill... however exploitive it can turn out to be.
"So-called human ‘intelligence’ is also about survival. Human intelligence is directed at survival, better life, better living conditions and eliminating suffering"
You senile? What are you relating there^ if not a rat race?
I can see you are APEING Ah Meng.
You know what is veneRATing?
So you have equated human intelligence with rat race. Hmm .... no wonder you are behind the pack..
All.....
Can we cut down on personal attacks?
Originally posted by Aik TC:
All.....
Can we cut down on personal attacks?
Anyone relating intelligence to survival is referring to the endless looping of rat race. He can't answer any direct question and falls back to the pretense of knowing. Not a single answer, acting smart and smug. Bo gan buay dua Han... Kids these days...
Originally posted by I No Stupid:I can see you are APEING Ah Meng.
You know what is veneRATing?
So you have equated human intelligence with rat race. Hmm .... no wonder you are behind the pack..
Ah Meng was an orang utan...
I know better than you in that your capitalizing the wrong letters.
Quote me if I ever equated those? Ad hominem again? One trick pony... Inability to differentiate rhetoric and direct question.