THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION DEBATE
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There are two words here not properly defined - religion and god. Until everyone agrees to a common definition, all debates on which religion and which god is true, is a waste of time. Do note there are just claims and counter-claims, mental construct or formation.
Buddhism began as a philosophy and became a religion. This is not what the Buddha had in mind. Understand the historical Buddha and his teachings during his life-time, not what subsequent disciples and their schools or traditions teach. When Buddhism became a religion, it suffers the same fate as other ‘religions’. Take Confucianism: for a long time it remained a philosophy, so there is no such thing as different schools (sects) or traditions (ethnic or cultural influence). However, it is in danger of becoming a religion too.
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Originally posted by Almond Cookies:
I think God causes the big bang. And the universe expand from a small explosion until no big now. Still expanding.God created the universe.....................but can't create a son without having a human female ???
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"Buddhism began as a philosophy and became a religion. This is not what the Buddha had in mind. Understand the historical Buddha and his teachings during his life-time, not what subsequent disciples and their schools or traditions teach. When Buddhism became a religion, it suffers the same fate as other ‘religions’. Take Confucianism: for a long time it remained a philosophy, so there is no such thing as different schools (sects) or traditions (ethnic or cultural influence). However, it is in danger of becoming a religion too."
Religion is different from philosophy by definition. Unless we are disputing historical inconststencies, Buddhism is a religion.
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"God created the universe.....................but can't create a son without having a human female ???"
Would it be more believable than virgin birth?
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Why waste words to tell us that religion is different from philosophy? The spelling is already different!! Since you know the definition of both, wouldn't you be able to understand; "Buddhism began as a philosophy and became a religion." ? Today, Buddhism is a religion - that is most unfortunate! Go back to the rationale why Siddharta Gotama left the palace and you will know why it began as a philosophy!
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(Almost)all religions seek the highest aspirations it can attain,to achieve union either to be God or be with God.Seeking union is the highest and ultimate attainment of Bliss.There is no religion that claims not to be the answer.Religion also attempts to make sense of things, phenomena. At the end of the day, Soul(s) exist,God exist. they are permanent.
Buddhism also seek attainment of Bliss, but it is certainly not from any union of God and Soul. It seeks Bliss by liberation from suffering.
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Originally posted by Fcukpap:
the harmony of all such religions is the key to sustaining world peace and human fraternity
This is where I disagree, as the irony is, in most conflicts. you can be damn sure to invoke God to be on your side. God is always with the righteous, thus will emerge victorious. If not, then God is testing you, to see whether you are truly worthy of His Glory!
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Originally posted by Aneslayer:
"God created the universe.....................but can't create a son without having a human female ???"
Would it be more believable than virgin birth?
In the new testament, it mentions the resurrected Jesus was taken up to heaven in his resurrected body in the presence of eleven of his apostles. If Jesus could ascend to heaven, why can't god just let jesus descended from heaven but must be born as human?
Don't you think it would be more believable than virgin brith if there were eleven people witness jesus descended from heaven? I know the answer I'm going to get is god is beyond human's comprehension. I did ask this question before and that was the answer I got.
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resurrected body
Bodhidharma was also resurrected leaving behind one shoe in the coffin, for living beings then to see instead of in the book, that is more tantalising and convincing.
Probably, we may like to explore 楞严�-二�五圆通 and 观世音普门� about the only true religion - the nature of all beings and how to get into tune, and how to live harmoniously, amicably, charitably along the journey of zenist loving kindness & benevolence bliss
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Do you think, with all the false views other religions expound, that they can ever lead to enlightenment? You mentioned shurangama sutra, that is one of the sutras that points out and overthrows the false views taught by other religions.
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You are referring to false view from enlightened one of other religions per se or the person who expound it? The person who expound incorrectly that resulted in disharmony of others against others has to bear the dire consequences of causal karma of dependent origination. Shurangama sutra is overthrowing your false views that our peaceful loving kindness mind does not carry a single one
25 methods in Shurangama sutra are the main categories of helping one to achieve inherent omni-thusness. And the 25 methods are not specifically referring to Buddhism methods as "Buddhism" is merely an identification on omni-ness, according to Diamond sutra 梦幻泡影。。。 hahaha
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"Why waste words to tell us that religion is different from philosophy?"
So are you saying Buddhism is not a true religion or it is a philosophy? You seem to be trying to say Buddhism is supposed to be a philosophy in this true religion thread. So are you arguing that Buddhism is not a true religion?
"Go back to the rationale why Siddharta Gotama left the palace and you will know why it began as a philosophy!"
You claimed so... the burden of proving is on you. Quit pretending you know the answers....
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
In the new testament, it mentions the resurrected Jesus was taken up to heaven in his resurrected body in the presence of eleven of his apostles. If Jesus could ascend to heaven, why can't god just let jesus descended from heaven but must be born as human?
Don't you think it would be more believable than virgin brith if there were eleven people witness jesus descended from heaven? I know the answer I'm going to get is god is beyond human's comprehension. I did ask this question before and that was the answer I got.
Jesus must be born as a human to die for our sins. God is a Spirit. Mary is the mother of the human aspect of Jesus. Jesus have 2 natures,human and divine nature. The term Son of God means the human aspect of Jesus is God's son. The divine nature of Jesus have alway existed and no one gave birth to It. If there was no Virgin birth the baby will inherit the original sin from adam. So Jesus have to be born from a virgin to free us from sins. Someone with original sin cannot free us from sins. It's indeed true the two nature of Jesus is beyond human comprehension. -
The doctrine of Trinity says
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The doctrine of Trinity says there's one God who existed in 3 persons. This is beyong human comprehension too.
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What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of God? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 145Share Question: "What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of God?" Answer: Jesus is not God’s Son in the sense of a human father and a son. God did not get married and have a son. God did not mate with Mary and, together with her, produce a son. Jesus is God’s Son in the sense that He is God made manifest in human form (John 1:1, 14). Jesus is God's Son in that He was conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. Luke 1:35 declares, “The angel answered, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’� During His trial before the Jewish leaders, the High Priest demanded of Jesus, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God� (Matthew 26:63). “’Yes, it is as you say,’ Jesus replied. ‘But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven’� (Matthew 26:64). The Jewish leaders responded by accusing Jesus of blasphemy (Matthew 26:65-66). Later, before Pontius Pilate, “The Jews insisted, ‘We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He claimed to be the Son of God’� (John 19:7). Why would His claiming to be the Son of God be considered blasphemy and be worthy of a death sentence? The Jewish leaders understood exactly what Jesus meant by the phrase “Son of God.� To be the Son of God is to be of the same nature as God. The Son of God is “of God.� The claim to be of the same nature as God—to in fact be God—was blasphemy to the Jewish leaders; therefore, they demanded Jesus’ death, in keeping with Leviticus 24:15. Hebrews 1:3 expresses this very clearly, “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being.� Another example can be found in John 17:12 where Judas is described as the “son of perdition.� John 6:71 tells us that Judas was the son of Simon. What does John 17:12 mean by describing Judas as the “son of perdition�? The word perdition means “destruction, ruin, waste.� Judas was not the literal son of “ruin, destruction, and waste,� but those things were the identity of Judas' life. Judas was a manifestation of perdition. In this same way, Jesus is the Son of God. The Son of God is God. Jesus is God made manifest (John 1:1, 14).
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Almond cookies... you just exposed that you dunno what you post....
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http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Son-of-Man.html Question: "What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of Man?" Answer: Jesus is referred to as the “Son of Man� 88 times in the New Testament. A first meaning of the phrase “Son of Man� is as a reference to the prophecy of Daniel 7:13-14, “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.� The description “Son of Man� was a Messianic title. Jesus is the One who was given dominion and glory and a kingdom. When Jesus used this phrase, He was assigning the Son of Man prophecy to Himself. The Jews of that era would have been intimately familiar with the phrase and to whom it referred. Jesus was proclaiming Himself as the Messiah. A second meaning of the phrase “Son of Man� is that Jesus was truly a human being. God called the prophet Ezekiel “son of man� 93 times. God was simply calling Ezekiel a human being. A son of a man is a man. Jesus was fully God (John 1:1), but He was also a human being (John 1:14). First John 4:2 tells us, “This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.� Yes, Jesus was the Son of God—He was in His essence God. Yes, Jesus was also the Son of Man—He was in His essence a human being. In summary, the phrase “Son of Man� indicates that Jesus is the Messiah and that He is truly a human being. Recommended Resource: Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll.
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Originally posted by Susanteo2011:
God created the universe.....................but can't create a son without having a human female ???
God is without gender male or female. The term Son of God does not mean God have a wife and have sex with her to produce a Son. It has to be through Virgin Mary through the Holy Spirit If not Jesus will have original sin through normal conception and he cannot die for our sins. -
"Amitayus48", you have only quoted those who said there is only one God.
There are many who said otherwise."I no stupid", well said .. Buddhism does begin as a philosophy in a way
and became religion by the traditional schools of thoughts. Buddhism is
evolved out of Hinduism. Pls read my arguments in other forum post. A lot
of ppl switch from Buddhism to Christianity, and also Christainity to Buddhism.
Why is this so? You ask a Christian or a Buddhist, that their faith is a religion..
they will deny and say their faith is not a religion at all.. for a
buddhist will say it is spiritual endeavour.. for a christian will say
it is a personal relationship with a personal God ..In Buddhism, there are many erroneous things so people turn to christianity.
In Christainity, there are also many erroneous things so people turn to Buddhism.
If they have been seriously practising their faith and thinking rationally
on the facts, they will come out as good atheist. This is a very true saying.
But many do not actually practise, but think they are wholesome. that is why
they hop from religion fallacy to another religion fallacy. When you put
your heart to practise the principles of your religion, you will then be able to
appreciate the fallacies of your faith. And when you are able to objectively
and open-mindedly identify the fallacies you have appreciated yourselves, you
then can be free of bondage to religion.For example, i heard. devout buddhist after years of practitioner burnt down
their quan yin statues to turn to christianity. and hallucinate that evil ghost
make trouble their switch of religion. It is all in your mind...For free thinkers who never consider deeply a religion, will often at moment
of death turn to certain form of religion, because their rejection of religion
is very superfluous.**atheists, humanists, skcetpical minded and scienific minded, come and post in my
forum. -
Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
In the new testament, it mentions the resurrected Jesus was taken up to heaven in his resurrected body in the presence of eleven of his apostles. If Jesus could ascend to heaven, why can't god just let jesus descended from heaven but must be born as human?
Don't you think it would be more believable than virgin brith if there were eleven people witness jesus descended from heaven? I know the answer I'm going to get is god is beyond human's comprehension. I did ask this question before and that was the answer I got.
Hey Dawn
The whole idea of Jesus born as human was to tell mankind that God is able to experience the pain, the joy and whatever mankinds went through as HUMAN. According Christian, theology He is FULLY MAN AND FULLY GOD at the same time. It is a mystery of faith.
Anyway some of the theories in Christiantity are unfalsifiable in science like the Creation, Resurrection and The Sun Standing Still during the Joshua Battle. It is rather subjective. It is based upon FAITH THAN ACTUAL FACT. It is not falsifiable to through repeated test.
I supposed , Buddha finding methodology is more inline with the Scientific Theory Formulation Methodology. The dark bold stand for the premises which most scientist use to begin with. The unbold is what I think Buddha begin with.
- Start with an observation that evokes a question: Why man experience suffering?
- Using logic and previous knowledge, state a possible ansser, called a Hypothesis: If man is not attached to a desire, will he suffer less.
- Perform an expierment or Test: Compare to two men, one hold on to the desire. The other chose to let go. Which men will suffer more. The end result is the one who chose to let go.
- Then publish your findings in a peer-reviewed journal. Publication: "The Four Noble truths."
- Other scientists read about your experiment and try to duplicate it. Verification: People start to test the Noble Truths. Follow the prescribe Dharma method. People become happier. Everyone get the same results every time.
- In time, and if experiments continue to support your hypothesis, it becomes a Theory: If people wanna to suffer less, they need to learn to let go of attachment.
Personally during my uni days when I learn about the Scientific Theory developement. I tried to apply in Buddhism teaching (4 noble truth). I was rather impressed with the Buddha teaching it is scientific, not dogmatic when I compare to my former Charismatic faith.
Anyway last time, a reporter ask Dalai Lama, "Which is the best religion." His holiness reply, " It is the one that will make one more compassionate, kind and a better person."
Perhaps to Dawn, Weichin, Amitayus 48 is Pureland Teaching. To Eternal Now maybe the Theravada - Vipassana meditation. To Almond cookies is Christiantity. To me is Nichiren Teaching.
Hence at the end of the day is how we live our daily life. There is an Amercian saying,"People don't care how much u know but how much u care."
In the Bible, New Testament, it mentions, "The Letter kills and The Spirt gives life." Perhaps Almond Cookies, it is wise of you to post your view in the Christian Forum. Your sharing might enrich your fellow bro. However, when you post it here, it is does not edify but cause the viewer to see u as fundamentalist.
Hope that u will understand.
Gassho
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Originally posted by reborn76:
Hey Dawn
The whole idea of Jesus born as human was to tell mankind that God is able to experience the pain, the joy and whatever mankinds went through as HUMAN. According Christian, theology He is FULLY MAN AND FULLY GOD at the same time. It is a mystery of faith.
Anyway some of the theories in Christiantity are unfalsifiable in science like the Creation, Resurrection and The Sun Standing Still during the Joshua Battle. It is rather subjective. It is based upon FAITH THAN ACTUAL FACT. It is not falsifiable to through repeated test.
I supposed , Buddha finding methodology is more inline with the Scientific Theory Formulation Methodology. The dark bold stand for the premises which most scientist use to begin with. The unbold is what I think Buddha begin with.
- Start with an observation that evokes a question: Why man experience suffering?
- Using logic and previous knowledge, state a possible ansser, called a Hypothesis: If man is not attached to a desire, will he suffer less.
- Perform an expierment or Test: Compare to two men, one hold on to the desire. The other chose to let go. Which men will suffer more. The end result is the one who chose to let go.
- Then publish your findings in a peer-reviewed journal. Publication: "The Four Noble truths."
- Other scientists read about your experiment and try to duplicate it. Verification: People start to test the Noble Truths. Follow the prescribe Dharma method. People become happier. Everyone get the same results every time.
- In time, and if experiments continue to support your hypothesis, it becomes a Theory: If people wanna to suffer less, they need to learn to let go of attachment.
Personally during my uni days when I learn about the Scientific Theory developement. I tried to apply in Buddhism teaching (4 noble truth). I was rather impressed with the Buddha teaching it is scientific, not dogmatic when I compare to my former Charismatic faith.
Anyway last time, a reporter ask Dalai Lama, "Which is the best religion." His holiness reply, " It is the one that will make one more compassionate, kind and a better person."
Perhaps to Dawn, Weichin, Amitayus 48 is Pureland Teaching. To Eternal Now maybe the Theravada - Vipassana meditation. To Almond cookies is Christiantity. To me is Nichiren Teaching.
Hence at the end of the day is how we live our daily life. There is an Amercian saying,"People don't care how much u know but how much u care."
In the Bible, New Testament, it mentions, "The Letter kills and The Spirt gives life." Perhaps Almond Cookies, it is wise of you to post your view in the Christian Forum. Your sharing might enrich your fellow bro. However, when you post it here, it is does not edify but cause the viewer to see u as fundamentalist.
Hope that u will understand.
Gassho
The eternal hope in sgforums is inactive. I do post on other christian forums. -
What you did not firmly & faithfully confirmed & realized is that you as human is a God yourself, but instead you are harmonizing the faith of understanding on Christianity from Jesus point of view, as son of God and now abit improving that Jesus is God himself. And you still detaching yourself as servant of God but factually, you are God and a defiled one like many others.
As a matter of fact, the only one holiness or Buddhahood (one true religion) is omnipresent and omnipotent naturally without sign of authority & dictation. It is in this kind of formless nature that it can manifest / transform unconditionally and naturally as different format of races and cultures, to accomodate different rootedness of living beings so as to benefit for true wisdom. 
Namaste -
Originally posted by Amitayus48:
What you did not firmly & faithfully confirmed & realized is that you as human is a God yourself, but instead you are harmonizing the faith of understanding on Christianity from Jesus point of view, as son of God and now abit improving that Jesus is God himself. And you still detaching yourself as servant of God but factually, you are God and a defiled one like many others.
Namaste
No I always think Jesus is fully God and Man. We are servants of God but we are only his creations. If I see Jesus as not divine I will be in a cult like mormons and Jehovah Witnesses. They don't accept the Trinity. Jesus' Two Natures: God and Man by Matt Slick Jesus is the most important person who has ever lived since he is the savior, God in human flesh. He is not half God and half man. He is fully divine and fully man. In other words, Jesus has two distinct natures: divine and human. Jesus is the Word who was God and was with God and was made flesh, (John 1:1,14). This means that in the single person of Jesus is both a human and divine nature, God and man. The divine nature was not changed when the Word became flesh (John 1:1,14). Instead, the Word was joined with humanity (Col. 2:9). Jesus' divine nature was not altered. Also, Jesus is not merely a man who "had God within Him" nor is he a man who "manifested the God principle." He is God in flesh, second person of the Trinity. "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word," (Heb. 1:3). Jesus' two natures are not "mixed together," (Eutychianism) nor are they combined into a new God-man nature (Monophysitism). They are separate yet act as a unit in the one person of Jesus. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The following chart should help you see the two natures of Jesus "in action": GOD MAN He is worshiped (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33). He worshiped the Father (John 17). He was called God (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8) He was called man (Mark 15:39; John 19:5). He was called Son of God (Mark 1:1) He was called Son of Man (John 9:35-37) He is prayed to (Acts 7:59). He prayed to the Father (John 17). He is sinless (1 Pet. 2:22; Heb. 4:15). He was tempted (Matt. 4:1). He knows all things (John 21:17). He grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52). He gives eternal life (John 10:28). He died (Rom. 5:8). All the fullness of deity dwells in Him (Col. 2:9). He has a body of flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). The Communicatio Idiomatum A doctrine that is related to the Hypostatic Union is the communicatio idiomatum (Latin for "communication of properties"). It is the teaching that the attributes of both the divine and human natures are ascribed to the one person of Jesus. This means that the man Jesus could lay claim to the glory He had with the Father before the world was made (John 17:5), claim that He descended from heaven, (John 3:13), and also claim omnipresence, (Matt. 28:20). All of these are divine qualities that are laid claim to by Jesus; therefore, the attributes of the divine properties were claimed by the person of Jesus. One of the most common errors that non-Christian cults make is not understanding the two natures of Christ. For example, the Jehovah's Witnesses focus on Jesus' humanity and ignore His divinity. They repeatedly quote verses dealing with Jesus as a man and try and set them against scripture showing that Jesus is also divine. On the other hand, the Christian Scientists do the reverse. They focus on the scriptures showing Jesus' divinity to the extent of denying His true humanity. For a proper understanding of Jesus and, therefore, all other doctrines that relate to Him, His two natures must be properly understood and defined. Jesus is one person with two natures. This is why He would grow in wisdom and stature (Luke 2:52) yet know all things (John 21:17). He is the Divine Word that became flesh (John 1:1,14). The Bible is about Jesus (John 5:39). The prophets prophesied about Him (Acts 10:43). The Father bore witness of Him (John 5:37; 8:18). The Holy Spirit bore witness of Him (John 15:26). The works Jesus did bore witness of Him (John 5:36; 10:25). The multitudes bore witness of Him (John 12:17). And, Jesus bore witness of Himself (John 14:6; 18:6). Other verses to consider when examining His deity are John 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:6-8; and 2 Pet. 1:1. 1 Tim. 2:5 says, "For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Right now, there is a man in heaven on the throne of God. He is our advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). He is our Savior (Titus 2:13). He is our Lord (Rom. 10:9-10). He is Jesus. This article is also available in: Español, Norsk -
Originally posted by reborn76:
Hey Dawn
The whole idea of Jesus born as human was to tell mankind that God is able to experience the pain, the joy and whatever mankinds went through as HUMAN. According Christian, theology He is FULLY MAN AND FULLY GOD at the same time. It is a mystery of faith.
Anyway some of the theories in Christiantity are unfalsifiable in science like the Creation, Resurrection and The Sun Standing Still during the Joshua Battle. It is rather subjective. It is based upon FAITH THAN ACTUAL FACT. It is not falsifiable to through repeated test.
I supposed , Buddha finding methodology is more inline with the Scientific Theory Formulation Methodology. The dark bold stand for the premises which most scientist use to begin with. The unbold is what I think Buddha begin with.
- Start with an observation that evokes a question: Why man experience suffering?
- Using logic and previous knowledge, state a possible ansser, called a Hypothesis: If man is not attached to a desire, will he suffer less.
- Perform an expierment or Test: Compare to two men, one hold on to the desire. The other chose to let go. Which men will suffer more. The end result is the one who chose to let go.
- Then publish your findings in a peer-reviewed journal. Publication: "The Four Noble truths."
- Other scientists read about your experiment and try to duplicate it. Verification: People start to test the Noble Truths. Follow the prescribe Dharma method. People become happier. Everyone get the same results every time.
- In time, and if experiments continue to support your hypothesis, it becomes a Theory: If people wanna to suffer less, they need to learn to let go of attachment.
Personally during my uni days when I learn about the Scientific Theory developement. I tried to apply in Buddhism teaching (4 noble truth). I was rather impressed with the Buddha teaching it is scientific, not dogmatic when I compare to my former Charismatic faith.
Anyway last time, a reporter ask Dalai Lama, "Which is the best religion." His holiness reply, " It is the one that will make one more compassionate, kind and a better person."
Perhaps to Dawn, Weichin, Amitayus 48 is Pureland Teaching. To Eternal Now maybe the Theravada - Vipassana meditation. To Almond cookies is Christiantity. To me is Nichiren Teaching.
Hence at the end of the day is how we live our daily life. There is an Amercian saying,"People don't care how much u know but how much u care."
In the Bible, New Testament, it mentions, "The Letter kills and The Spirt gives life." Perhaps Almond Cookies, it is wise of you to post your view in the Christian Forum. Your sharing might enrich your fellow bro. However, when you post it here, it is does not edify but cause the viewer to see u as fundamentalist.
Hope that u will understand.
Gassho
I heard of the explanation you gave above. I mean God could send baby jesus from heaven and experienced the sufferings of human. Why must be born through virgin birth. To prove he is God's son, don't you think descending from heaven is more convincing than virgin brith. Anyway, it has nothing to do with Buddhism.