Most of the time, we are caught up in what we are doing, being "aware" only in our specific train of thoughts, and "doing". With a narrow scope of mind, without the expansiveness of just being aware.
yep taking note of the different sensations and thoughts at different moments reveals many facades of the experience.
keep on noting the difference, and release the stories revolving around these different experiences.
see the mirage.
the co-dependence of sensations and thoughts. the flow of thoughts building up from the support of the initial trigger.
the mirage reveals what we all along thought is the agent.
Originally posted by geis:
~ from post above
AEN: Yes. Good insight. Not only is there no one flow of thoughts... There is no continuous movement of things... there is nothing constant or substantial at all to our experience. Walking from here to there, there is in fact no here and there much less a person moving from here to there, there is only this, then this, then this... but there is no The Here either. The sense of there being The Here or The Now is another illusion. Here, now, thought, sight, etc, all ungraspable, dream-like, bubble like. Then it is realized and experienced that there is no continuous flow of thought, only bubbles manifesting and popping (self-liberating) moment by moment tracelessly. There is nothing truly there! Truly groundless, truly traceless, truly free.
When we realize anatta, we may discover that all phenomena are disjoint, unsupported, and self-liberating, and arising without an agent. Just this one thought, one sound.... completely distinct from a previous moment of thought, yet interdependently originated as a process.
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This helped :)
My Zen Master talked about åº”æ— æ‰€ä½�,而生其心yesterday。I've a clearer picture of this verse now.
Originally posted by geis:yep taking note of the different sensations and thoughts at different moments reveals many facades of the experience.
keep on noting the difference, and release the stories revolving around these different experiences.
see the mirage.
the co-dependence of sensations and thoughts. the flow of thoughts building up from the support of the initial trigger.
the mirage reveals what we all along thought is the agent.
Currently,in daily life, am more sensitive to emerging recurrent patterns, also there are habitual patterns which I know I am not willing to let go. I know it is there, but somehow not ready confront it. Also the transitoriness of nature is related only to outer phenomenon, but not the phenomena of experience. In retrospect, the experience feels constant, or "solid" experience, with familiarity.
Meaning I, or the experiencing, do not feel transient.
"Do you have a sense of a self or observer in this state? If there is, then it is simply an experience of intensity of luminosity but the sense of self is still present. If everything is luminous and the sense of self is in abeyance, then what you are describing is a temporary experience of anatta but not the realization of anatta. This is also known as a PCE (Pure Consciousness Experience) in the terminology of Actualism. Check this out:http://actualfreedom.com.au/library/topics/pce.htm"
It is not a constant, akin of the flickering of a flame, it wavers, sometimes just the pure experience, other time there is "sensing" , but no referencing.
However,I speculate perhaps there is another mode, the first two, just simply experience, then a registering, not really acknowledgement but a "sensing".
Then third mode, I hope I'm making sense, which may be "no" awareness, given the percieved duration as opposed to anticipated chronological time, meaning percieved time which appears shorter than actual time. "No" awareness is mind switches from "on"(registering of phenomenon) and "off"(non registering of phenomenon), imagine the mind like a digital camera on a power saving mode. Although the camera is switched on,after a period of inactivity, goes into a sleep mode, and with stimulus "awakes" again. However, the problem is, with no registering, how can one be aware of no "awareness"?
There is another possibility, is that the combined registering of all the senses may take actually longer than what is percieved. One way of putting it is whole heartedly doing two different actions with both our hands at the same time. The actual completion of task is longer than percieved .
Originally posted by Weychin:
Currently,in daily life, am more sensitive to emerging recurrent patterns, also there are habitual patterns which I know I am not willing to let go. I know it is there, but somehow not ready confront it. Also the transitoriness of nature is related only to outer phenomenon, but not the phenomena of experience. In retrospect, the experience feels constant, or "solid" experience, with familiarity.
Meaning I, or the experiencing, do not feel transient.
By the way what method of practice are you doing at the moment?
By practicing Vipassana you will perceive transience.
Originally posted by Weychin:"Do you have a sense of a self or observer in this state? If there is, then it is simply an experience of intensity of luminosity but the sense of self is still present. If everything is luminous and the sense of self is in abeyance, then what you are describing is a temporary experience of anatta but not the realization of anatta. This is also known as a PCE (Pure Consciousness Experience) in the terminology of Actualism. Check this out:http://actualfreedom.com.au/library/topics/pce.htm"
It is not a constant, akin of the flickering of a flame, it wavers, sometimes just the pure experience, other time there is "sensing" , but no referencing.
What do you mean by 'sensing but no referencing'? How is it different from pure experience.
Originally posted by Weychin:However,I speculate perhaps there is another mode, the first two, just simply experience, then a registering, not really acknowledgement but a "sensing".
Then third mode, I hope I'm making sense, which may be "no" awareness, given the percieved duration as opposed to anticipated chronological time, meaning percieved time which appears shorter than actual time. "No" awareness is mind switches from "on"(registering of phenomenon) and "off"(non registering of phenomenon), imagine the mind like a digital camera on a power saving mode. Although the camera is switched on,after a period of inactivity, goes into a sleep mode, and with stimulus "awakes" again. However, the problem is, with no registering, how can one be aware of no "awareness"?
There is another possibility, is that the combined registering of all the senses may take actually longer than what is percieved. One way of putting it is whole heartedly doing two different actions with both our hands at the same time. The actual completion of task is longer than percieved .
Because a perceived movement in time arises when you are comparing and contrasting, it arises when you separate yourself from this moment of experience. If you are 'in the moment' so to speak, you do not perceive time.
If for example you hate the job you're doing... time passes slowly. Why? In that moment of aversion you separate yourself from the moment of experience... and perceive time and movement.
I am doing a Chenrezig practice which includes visualisation, chanting and finally dissolving into emptiness.
"What do you mean by 'sensing but no referencing'? How is it different from pure experience."
How do I put it ? The first one means full concentration where there is only the experience, whereas the second feels more like you are experiencing. The intensity is there, but it appears you are "doing" the experience.
Sorry , I can only relate it on a personal level.
Originally posted by Weychin:I am doing a Chenrezig practice which includes visulisation, chanting and finally dissolving into emptiness.
"What do you mean by 'sensing but no referencing'? How is it different from pure experience."
How do I put it ? The first one means full concentration where there is only the experience, whereas the second feels more like you are experiencing. The intensity is there, but it appears you are "doing" the experience.
I see...
so, to clarify,
your 'sensing but no referencing' - pure experience to the point of absorption, where subject-object duality temporarily dissolves?
'pure experience' - intensity of experience but there is a perceiver, doer?
Yes, there seems to be a perciever, or doer, and maybe like you said it, sense of self is in abeyance.
However,I feel day to day mindfulness is actually more important and useful.
Originally posted by Weychin:Yes, there seems to be a perciever, or doer, and maybe like you said it, sense of self is in abeyance.
Huh.. so is there a sense of self or not?
Anyway here is something by Thusness that may be of relevance here (and as suggested here, mindfulness must complement with right view otherwise the insight into non-dual and anatta will not arise):
Hi Kim123,
Just to add a lil, see whether it makes sense to you.
As a start it is almost not possible not to feel dualistic. An observer observing the observed is our ordinary experience and it will appear that this is an experiential fact. Therefore we should not rush into anything but just simply recognize the ‘cause’. The cause that made us see in such a way is termed ‘ignorance’. Try to understand ‘ignorance’ not as not knowing but a form of knowing instead. See it as a very deep form of ‘dualistic knowing’ that we have taken it to be truth. We then proceed to overcome this wrong view in 2 steps; one by strongly and firmly establishing the right view to replace our existing ‘dualistic and inherent view’ and second, practice seeing in bare attention to lessen the grip of views. Practice being bare in bodily sensation till there is a very strong clear mirror feeling in bodily sensation. Then with the right view, non-dual will dawn. Without the right view, it will most likely turn into a mirror reflecting phenomena experience.
Practices can take decades and often quite frustrating and challenging during the journey. But have faith, be patient and have confidence, all effort will proof worthwhile eventually.
A simple summary I use to help my practice:-
When there is simply a pure sense of existence;
When awareness appears mirror like;
When sensations become pristine clear and bright;
This is luminosity.
When all arising appear disconnected;
When appearance springs without a center;
When phenomena appears to be on their own without controller;
This is no doer-ship.
When subject/object division is seen as illusion;
When there is clarity that no one is behind thoughts;
When there is only scenery, sounds, thoughts and so forth;
This is anatta.
When phenomena appears pristinely crystal;
When there is merely one seamless experience;
When all is seen as Presence;
This is non-dual Presence.
When we feel fully the unfindability and unlocatability of
phenomena;
When all experiences are seen as ungraspable;
When all mind boundaries of in/out, there/here, now/then
dissolve;
This is Emptiness.
When interconnectedness of everything is wholly felt;
When arising appears great, effortless and wonderful;
When presence feels universe;
This is Maha.
When arising is not caged in who, where and when;
When all phenomena appear spontaneous and effortless;
When everything appears right every where, every when;
This is spontaneous perfection.
Seeing these as the ground of all experiences;
always and already so;
This is wisdom.
Experiencing the ground in whatever arises;
This is practice.
Happy journey. :)
Originally posted by Weychin:However,I feel day to day mindfulness is actually more important and useful.
Mindfulness must complement with right view, then insight of anatta can arise... without which we will not able to experience true liberation.
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:What do you mean by 'sensing but no referencing'? How is it different from pure experience.
Let me use an example, imagine you are listening to a lecture,