Certainty of Being
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Host and Guest
In the Surangama Sutra Arya Ajnatakaundinya puts the question: "What is the difference between the permanent and the changing?
He answers by giving an example of a traveler who stops at an Inn. The traveler eats, sleeps and then continues on his journey. He doesn't stay to settle in the Inn, but pays his bill and leaves.
But what with the Innkeeper? He doesn't leave. He keeps on staying at the Inn to receive and take leave of gusts, because that is where he lives.
" Therefore, I declare that the changing is guest and the permanent is host", says Arya Ajnatakaundinya.
In that way we identify all thoughts that comes and goes as changing, travelers that arrives and leaves and that doesn't need any further investigation.
Our Buddha-self is the host who lets the traveler - the thought - leave without hindrance. A good host doesn't keep up the traveler at his departure.
Another way to illustrate this is by imaging an empty space with a sun ray shining in. In this ray you'll see a lot of dust i the empty room. The dust is moving but the space is empty. That that is still and clear is called space, that that is moving is called dust, because that is the being of dust.
Guest and dust refers to illusory thought, while the host and space refers to the Buddha-nature.
This shows that the permanent Buddha-nature doesn't follow the illusory thoughts in their coming and going, rising and falling. So if one is unaffected by things, there won't be any hindrances even if one is surrounded by the ten thousand things.
Illusory thoughts comes and goes by themselves and don't make a hindrance for the True Nature of Suchness.
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Those who wish to practice self-inquiry should read http://zenhsin.org/zenteachings/xuyun_teachings.html by Ch'an Master Hsu YunAn excerpt:3. How to Start the Practice: Distinction Between Host and Guest:How should one begin to practice? In the Surangama assembly, Kaundinya the Honored One mentioned the two words "guest" and "dust." This is where beginners should begin their practice. He said, "A traveler who stops at an inn may stay overnight or get something to eat. When he is finished or rested, he packs and continues his journey, for he does not have time to stay longer. If he were the host, he would have no place to go. Thus I reason : he who does not stay is called a guest because not staying is the essence of being a guest. He who stays is called a host. Again, on a clear day, when the sun rises and the sunlight enters a dark room through an opening, one can see dust in empty space. The dust is moving but the space is still. That which is clear and still is called space; that which is moving is called dust because moving is the essence of being dust." Guest and dust refer to illusory thoughts, whereas host and space refer to self-nature. That the permanent host does not follow the guest in his comings and goings illustrates that permanent self-nature does not follow illusory thoughts in their fleeting rise and fall. therefore it was said, "It was said, "If one is unaffected by all things, then there will be no obstructions even when one is constantly surrounded by things." The moving dust does not block the clear, still empty space; illusory thoughts which rise and fall by themselves do not hinder the self-nature of Suchness. Thus it was said, "If my mind does not arise, all things are blameless." In such a state of mind, even the guest does not drift with illusory thoughts. If he understands space and dust, illusory thoughts will no longer be hindrances. It is said that when one recognizes an enemy, there will be no more enemy in your mind. If one can investigate and understand all this before starting to practice, it is unlikely that one will make serious mistakes.
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Just had a discussion with Thusness. I think there is something very important to caution to readers here.
The experience of the Witness is important, and is undeniable. The Certainty of Being is a natural certainty that cannot be negated. This is not wrong. You cannot deny your own existence (how could you? if you try to deny it, who is it denying it?)
There is nothing wrong experiencing directly without intermediary the pure sense of existence. But after this direct experience, one should refine the understanding, our views, our insights. Instead of deviating from the right view, re-enforcing the wrong view, after the experience.
Thusness also told me that what I have experienced has nothing to do with 'beingness being unchanging, constant and permanent'. Yet I was re-enforcing this wrong view into my consciousness like chanting. He told me not to do that, and that what I described is not my direct experience, but instead it is my mind playing tricks. What is experienced is just luminosity, non-conceptuality, directness, nothing more than that. So instead of describing what I experienced, I was reminding myself what is not true. We actually never experience anything unchanging.
He also said that though I am experiencing the "host and guest", he told me not to focus on 'permanent, unchanging, and independent' aspect as by doing so with a few more months of intense training, I will become stuck for decades in the formless realms and be difficult to get out. Instead, I should be focusing on the impersonality aspect, and the four aspects of I AM he talked to me about, then afterwards experience non dual and anatta.
It is not about denying the Witness, but refining our insight of it:
- what is meant by non-dual?
- what is meant by non-conceptual?
- what is meant by being spontaneous?
- what is the 'impersonality' aspect?
- what is luminosity?
I had also wrote a similar post to someone at the I AM stage 'Subjectivity9' previously: Keep the experience, Refine the view
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p.s. just had a conversation with Thusness to clarify on the 'unmoving' nature of Awareness in Shurangama Sutra.
I think it is pretty clear in explaining how the 'unmoving' nature of awareness is not the Hindu understanding of 'permanence of Self, impermanence of objects'. I posted another good excerpt from Shurangama Sutra also in Two Sutras (Discourses by Buddha) on the Mistaken Views of Consciousness
(12:21 AM) An Eternal Now: i saw something in shurangama sutra just now,
The Hinayanist’s inverted views
The Buddha then bent, straightened and rebent his fingers
and asked ânanda: ‘What did you see?Â’ ânanda replied: ‘I
saw the Buddha open and close His fist.Â’ The Buddha asked:
‘You say that you saw my fist open and close; was it my fist
or your seeing that opened and closed?Â’ ânanda replied: ‘As
the BuddhaÂ’s fist opened and closed, I saw that it and not the
nature of my seeing did so by itself.Â’ The Buddha asked:
‘Which one moved and which was still?Â’ ânanda replied:
‘The Buddha’s hand was not still; as to the nature of my seeing
which was already beyond the state of stillness, it could
not move.Â’
The Buddha said ‘Correct.’
Thereupon the Buddha sent out from His palm a
radiant ray of light to ânandaÂ’s right, and the disciple
turned to look at it. Then He sent out another ray to ânanda
Â’s left and the disciple turned to look at it. The Buddha
then asked: ‘Why did your head move?Â’ ânanda replied:
‘I saw the Buddha send out radiant rays of light to my right
and left, I turned to look at them and so my head moved.Â’
(The Buddha’ said ‘As you turn to the right and left to
see the Buddha-light, is it your head or your seeing that
moves?Â’ (ânanda replied ‘World Honoured One, it is my
head that turns; as to my seeing which is already beyond
(the state of) stillness, how can it move?Â’
The Buddha said: ‘Correct.’ 19
The Buddha then declared to the assembly: ‘So every
worldly man knows that what moves is dust. and that he who
does not stay is a guest. You have seen ânanda whose head
moved of itself whereas his seeing was unmoved. You have
also seen my fist which opened and closed of itself whereas
his seeing neither expanded nor contracted. Why do you still
(12:22 AM) An Eternal Now: regard the moving as your body and surroundings, and so,
from beginning to end, allow your thoughts to rise and fall
without interruption, thereby losing (sight of) your true
nature and indulging in backward actions? By missing the
(True) Mind of your nature and by mistaking (illusory) objects
for your Selves, you allow yourselves to be caught in the
wheel (of saüsàra) thereby forcing yourselves to pass
through transmigrations.20
and then
the commentator wrote
19. The Buddha wiped out both the worldly view of permanence and the Hinayanist view of
impermanence which have no room in the Absolute which is beyond both illusory states.
20. The Buddha reprimanded both worldlings and Hinayanists for their inverted views to eliminate both
the worldly and saintly states. If people in this world already know that the moving is ‘dust,’ it is clear
that saüsàra is impermanent, but why do they still regard it as (real and) lasting? If Hinayanists know
that the head moves whereas the nature of seeing is unmoved, it is very clear that the latter is really
lasting, but why do they still regard it as impermanent? The Buddha meant: ‘Since you now know
what is and is not permanent; why do you still hold that what moves are your bodies, and (external)
objects?Â’ These two rebuttals implied the BuddhaÂ’s idea of eliminating both the false and the real. He
meant that if this body and all objects (outside) it were impermanent, why did worldly men regard
them as permanent? Thus He reprimanded all worldly men. If this very body and all things (external
to it) were really permanent, for ‘the non-existent body of illusion is Dharmakàya,Â’ then why did the
Hinayanists hold that they were impermanent? Thus He reprimanded the Hinayanists.
(12:22 AM) An Eternal Now: These discriminations result in the continuous rise and fall of endless thoughts while the True
Nature is overlooked. This is why people indulge in backward actions and lose (sight of) the selfpossessed
Nature of Mind. ‘For you have recognized (external) objects as your Self and are caught
in the midst of wrong actions so that you turn the wheel of birth and death.Â’ (In other words to root
out the worldly man’s ‘is’ and the Hinayanist’s ‘is not’ to reveal the ‘Mean’ which includes both
existence and non-existence.)
(12:25 AM) Thusness: what do u mean by inverted view?
(12:26 AM) An Eternal Now: that means opposite of whats true.. like taking what is impermanent to be permanent?
(12:26 AM) An Eternal Now: but i dun get his 'reprimand' of the hinananist
hinayanist
(12:28 AM) Thusness: the hinayanist is not what that is wrong
(12:28 AM) Thusness: some of the sutra like to belittle hinayanist. :P
(12:29 AM) Thusness: what Buddha is trying to teach is about non-movment
(12:29 AM) Thusness: but the illustration is not a good one in my opinion
(12:30 AM) Thusness: in non-dual insight, nothing moves
(12:30 AM) An Eternal Now: oic..
(12:30 AM) Thusness: when ur mind follows phenomena and dwell in dualistic concept, phenomena appears moving
(12:31 AM) Thusness: but when insight arises, nothing moves
(12:31 AM) Thusness: now for there to be moving, what must happen?
(12:32 AM) Thusness: if u cannot measure, cannot grasp, cannot find its locality...from where is it moving
(12:33 AM) Thusness: if awareness hasn't moved then how does knowing arise?
how is there awareness?
(12:33 AM) Thusness: if awareness cannot be said to be moving, then how can we say thoughts are moving?
(12:34 AM) Thusness: if one taste of both nature and essence are directly experienced, then there is true insight.
(12:35 AM) An Eternal Now: icic..
(12:36 AM) Thusness: if u cling to thoughts or discard thoughts, that is moving
if u cling to awareness or discard awareness, that is also moving
(12:37 AM) Thusness: if u see the luminous and empty nature, nothing moves
(12:37 AM) An Eternal Now: oic..
(12:38 AM) Thusness: get it?
(12:38 AM) An Eternal Now: ya think so
(12:38 AM) Thusness: if u say u saw something...that is awareness
(12:38 AM) Thusness: do u consider that to be moving or not moving?
(12:39 AM) Thusness: u see the words flow...
(12:39 AM) An Eternal Now: the pure experience is not moving, if we measure it then we see movement
(12:40 AM) Thusness: u r looking from the perspective of object, everything is moving
(12:40 AM) An Eternal Now: oic..
(12:41 AM) Thusness: if u r looking from the perspective of awareness, nothing seems to move
(12:42 AM) An Eternal Now: ic..
(12:42 AM) Thusness: if u r realize luminous essence and empty nature, then nothing also moves
the former is One-Mind
the later is no-mind
(12:43 AM) Thusness: but no-mind can have varying degrees of insight and experience
(12:43 AM) Thusness: though ppl might say it is conceptual to say or categorize further
but it is a skillful means -
(John Wheeler)
Pointers
The Pointers page is generally updated on Monday of each week.
There is not any implication in any of this that thoughts, feelings, experiences, etc., will ever stop (as long as there is a body-mind present to generate them!). But they are no longer believed to refer to a limited self-center that we take as who we are. That activity is the suffering itself. The mere presence of a body-mind has never been the problem.
Throughout all experiences, there is your positive, undeniable being or true nature. It is not a thing, but it is not nothing either. It is a wonderfully, radiant, alive clarity.
What do you know about your true being at this point? What have you seen? What is your understanding of yourself? The point is to be clear on who and what you are. If that is not really solid, then the seeking and doubts will go on.
If you have followed the "not this, not this" approach, that is all well and good. But you have not negated your being have you? So have a look at that and see what you can see about what you really are. “See” means look and understand on direct evidence. Some questions you can look into are the following. Are you there? Yes or no? Is that (your being) changing? Is it an object? Does it have any size or shape? Does it have any perceptible beginning or end? Does it have any suffering, problems or limitation? All of these things can be clearly understood presently by going on direct experience. This will bring the truth of what you are into great clarity.
Drop all the labeling and see what you are. Then you can decide, based on what you find, if you are rightly to be called a seeker. Maybe you will find that you are the non-dual reality. One never knows without having a look!
We have become used to being identified with a conceptual image. At some point we realize this generates the problems and suffering. Then we become interested to question the truth of the self-limiting concepts. Many people are not interested in this because they have not yet realized the importance of examining who they really are. Even spiritual seekers are often more comfortable with keeping their "enlightened" gurus and tales of awakening, rather than looking to see who they are.
The notions that I am "this" or "that" are not the root of the problem. It is the idea that I am an "I" at all. All the self-limiting notions are just so many labels that have been added to that core concept.
Have you ever had a thought, perception or experience outside of awareness? You cannot say so. So on direct evidence you do not experience things as apart from awareness. However, awareness remains regardless of appearances. That is why there is not a one-to-one correspondence. Said another way, objects are nothing but awareness, but awareness itself is not an object.
The nature of objects may be an interesting topic for discussion, but such a discussion is not the same as knowing yourself. If you find you are trying to piece things together at an intellectual level to make the pointers "work" for the mind’s conceptual understanding, that is an exercise in futility. Before the next thought appears, you are undoubtedly present and aware. That is the essence of what is being pointed to. If that is clear, the other points follow as a matter of course.
You are what you were seeking — inescapable and undeniable being-awareness itself. And that, too, is simply a pointer. Any word will do. The imagined seeker, who is the basis of all seeking, suffering and doubt, is not to be found. Not only do you have no head (a la Douglas Harding), but you do not have anything else either. This complete absence, however, is only pointing to your total presence.
All that appears is only an appearance of this, your innate nature. In this recognition, all is resolved. All limiting concepts make a tacit reference to the entity to whom they apply. But no such entity is present. This is the insight that severs the "gordian knot" of doubt and leaves you present as the magnificent clarity that cannot be denied. Anyhow, even such a denial would only shine by virtue of that presence, your own natural state.
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how do one knows one awareness are universal vs individual pyschological perspective and values? while the Observed is the observer but the observer host the observed.
or to re question.....
Beyond the relam of awareness from observed how do you know it is universal awareness rather than individual perspective of the universe awareness.....
i have notice that most religions organizations althought taught the same idealogy and said the same prayer but there are no spiritual connection between continent. It is almost as to say that spiritually is independent and localised.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
how do one knows one awareness are universal vs individual pyschological perspective and values? while the Observed is the observer but the observer host the observed.
Awareness is not any of the psychological perspective and values. When you ask "Who am I", at first you may think that you are your own psychological perspective, values, beliefs, thoughts, and so on. But then you realise actually you are not that, you are not your mind and body. Those can be likened to waves. But what you are, Awareness itself, is like an ocean.
Awareness, existence, consciousness, Who You Are is not like the waves. It is ever-present and unmovable. Your thoughts and feelings come and go upon the screen of consciousness *every single moment*, but Awareness is still present, just like the screen and the cinema images. No matter what displays on the screen, the screen is still screen. Your 'individual psychological perspective and values' may undergo a 180 degree transformation in a year, yet does that change your Awareness and Presence? In other words, whatever you think at the moment, are you still Aware and Present? Does it feel like it has aged, or changed? The answer is no. The Presence-Awareness looking out through your eyes when you were 10 years old, and the Presence-Awareness looking out through your eyes when you are 80 years old, will feel exactly the same because it is timeless - even though your body, your mind, everything has undergone a lot of changes.
You are that mirror-like awareness. You are not any finite objects, you simply reflect everything for what it is. It has the potential to manifest everything, according to conditions.
Your mirror-like awareness has no limitations, has no boundaries and edges. It does not belong to any object that appears on it. It does not belong to the body-mind object that you identify as 'yourself'. It does not belong to anything. But everything arise from that.
or to re question.....
Beyond the relam of awareness from observed how do you know it is universal awareness rather than individual perspective of the universe awareness.....
Try to find out if Awareness belongs to an individual self in your own experience. When you are able to go beyond concepts, you realise that it is not 'you' as a body-mind that contains awareness, but rather, the body-mind are appearances within Awareness. The appearances come and go, but Awareness does not move. It is timeless, formless, and capable of manifesting everything. It is like space - space does not belong to anything, yet everything manifests from within that. Your Awareness is like space - it is the universal/impersonal space in which every thoughts and sight and sensation manifest, but no object or person can claim ownership of space just because they manifested within it.
Right now you identify yourself with your mind and body. This is the cause of the sense of individuality. But if you break that identification, it is like the 'small space' inside your body-mind merges with the 'great space' outside, and you realise there is no difference. There never was separation, there never was a real individual identity.
It is like the light from a small lamp when put under the sun, will dissolve into the Great Light and become inseparable. Similarly, when you realise your True Identity, your self-consciousness will dissolve into the Universal/Impersonal Awareness.
Some of us may think that it is actually the body-mind that is animating the consciousness, and as such consciousness is a personal/individual byproduct of the body-mind. Actually we got it completely backwards! Consciousness/Awareness is what is animating the body. A dead body or corpse has no consciousness, which shows that body itself is insentient and relies on the Presence of Awareness for its functions.
Impersonal/Universal Awareness is animating or ‘powering’ the body and the personality like electricity is powering the TV to show the images on screen. Whatever happens on screen is ‘run’ only by the ‘power’ of the One Mind. Everything and everyone is the spontaneous functioning of One Mind, there is no individual doers/actors/selves.
i have notice that most religions organizations althought taught the same idealogy and said the same prayer but there are no spiritual connection between continent. It is almost as to say that spiritually is independent and localised.
Mystics from all over the world report the exact same realisation, which shows that this realisation is not confined to any ideologies at all. No ideologies are an accurate representation of Reality, because Reality cannot be captured into thoughts and words as it is non-conceptual. It just requires you to look. Then you will be able to see connections more easily. This doesn't mean Buddhism is exactly the same as other religions, but this is another topic.
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If one is to be intelligently aware that perpetual awareness existed than one must therefore inferential the difference of stillness awareness to a decision awareness.
Decision awareness is thus a function of inference of intelligent references of the "different awareness experiences" so how does one know that the “universal awareness” is also not one of the many references of awareness in itself? and you actually are in the moment of "THE Awareness" ?
if I follow of what you mention about “It is ever-present and unmovable.” than there are only short statics of silent awareness within the moment because every moment is a intelligent decision to be aware of the slient awareness in order to maintain “ever present and unmovable”
Does it also mean that universal awareness is thus chain of many short statics awareness. ?
Your mirror-like awareness has no limitations, has no boundaries and edges
Explain to me what do you mean by the "mirror concept of reflecting" it still need inteligent to reflects....?
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
If one is to be intelligently aware that perpetual awareness existed than one must therefore inferential the difference of stillness awareness to a decision awareness.
Can you explain what you mean by 'stillness awareness' and 'decision awareness' just so I don't misunderstand.
Decision awareness is thus a function of inference of intelligent references of the "different awareness experiences" so how does one know that the “universal awareness” is also not one of the many references of awareness in itself? and you actually are in the moment of "THE Awareness" ?
A decision is a thought. The knowledge that led to the decision, is also more thoughts and inference based on what you see and heard. Thus what you mean by 'decision awareness' probably falls under the category of what I call 'mind', which consists of thoughts, knowledge, inference.
Thoughts are appearances that come and go and are manifested by the impersonal and universal Awareness. Without this primordial awareness, nothing could arise.
Thoughts come and go, but what you are as Universal Awareness is ever-present. For example, one moment you may think you don't know something. The next moment you suddenly figured things out, so now you think 'I understand'. But both the thought of confusion and the thought of 'I understand', and any other thoughts, are just appearances that comes and goes from your awareness. Can you have a thought without awareness? No thought can arise without awareness.
Furthermore: if there is no thoughts at all at the moment, are you still present and aware? Yes! Non-conceptual awareness does not dependent on thoughts, but thoughts depend on awareness. In fact to get a first glimpse of Pure Awareness, you have to silence your mind and look into the gap between two thoughts. In that gap, ask yourself/investigate/look into 'What am I?' or 'What is This?' That lucid, luminous, clear cognizance and Presence that remains in the absence of thought is what you are. If true realisation arise, no doubts will remain as to your true identity, and self-inquiry is a good way to realise this. But this lucid cognizance is present not only during the absence of thoughts but during the presence of thoughts as well, as the Pure Witnessing.
Hence the 'decision awareness' is not what I called 'Awareness' - rather they are knowledge coming from inference. Your true Essence as Awareness is non-conceptual, it simply reflects whatever arise in your field of experience as it is. For example a thought of confusion arise - it is reflected as it is. A thought 'I know' comes, it is also reflected as it is. A mirror simply reflects everything as it is.
if I follow of what you mention about “It is ever-present and unmovable.” than there are only short statics of silent awareness within the moment because every moment is a intelligent decision to be aware of the slient awareness in order to maintain “ever present and unmovable”
No, 'ever-present and unmovable' is not a state you achieve.
Rather it is pointing to an ever-present fact of awareness: You never actually experience movement!
The reason you think you move, is because you identify yourself with your mind and body. Thoughts and appearances come and go, but Awareness itself has never moved! So you do not make Awareness stop moving, you simply recognize/realise that it has Never moved.
I've given an example previously:
Walking/Jogging/Running meditation
While jogging just now, I 'forgot' my mind and body. It feels like I'm the still presence in which the world moves through. Instead of being a body running on the road from here to there, it's seen that I am the space that encompasses the whole world and the whole world moves through me. I am not moving. The world is moving through me.
It feels like you're running on the threadmill, you're not actually moving! Except that the scenery moves through you.
You can practice seeing this next time when you walk or jog. This space of awareness is unmoving, whether or not the world is moving.
Later I was reminded of this video http://www.headless.org/videos/still_point.htm
Does it also mean that universal awareness is thus chain of many short statics awareness. ?
No, Awareness is not static, neither is it simply an experience that comes and goes - it is immovable, ever-present, never lost, yet dynamic, having the potential to manifest all forms.
Your mirror-like awareness has no limitations, has no boundaries and edges
Explain to me what do you mean by the "mirror concept of reflecting" it still need inteligent to reflects....?
You are pure Presence, Clarity, Vitality, and Intelligence already. The intelligence that is being talked about here is not conceptual intelligence. It need not be developed - it is already present as your true essence, it just needs to be recognized/realized.
What I mean is the intelligence that even low IQ people have.
For example, if you got poked, you immediately withdraw your hand even without thinking. Why? Awareness.
As for the mirror: what it means is this.
Whether you are doing your own work, walking on the street, paying attention to a conversation, etc. Yet if a dog nearby starts barking, you will still hear it without your intention to do so! The sound of dog barking is spontaneously manifested within that field of Universal Awareness.
Your Awareness is like a mirror - it is capable of spontaneously perceiving and manifesting everything on its own accord. Even if you aren't paying particular attention to that object, it is still being perceived! What perceives is not 'you' as a body-mind (the body simply serves as a condition for that arising experience, but is in itself insentient), it is not even 'your attention' (your attention is a thought-form that amplifies on a particular experience being perceived, but it is not what perceives). Even if you are paying attention to your breathe, if some dog barks or someone shouts at you, you'll still be aware whether you want to or not.
Whether that something is considered pleasant or unpleasant, Mirror-Like Awareness equally reflects What Is impartially without prejudices or judgements. Judgements are after-thoughts arising due to the egoic mind.
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"If you understand, things are just as they are...If you do not understand, things are just as they are." Zen saying
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John Wheeler:
To know any experience, there must be a knowing that "I am". That is just the basic conscious knowing of being present. That is what first appears out of deep sleep. It is not a personal "I" or any other notion. Call it impersonal knowing. Subsequently, the mind begins operating and the separate "I" notion is created in thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WqyOWYj5nE
Animae Partus - A God Is Born ("I AM")
http://painofsalvation.com/be/narration.htm
I am
I am
I am
I was not
then I came to be
I cannot remember NOT being
But I may have traveled far
very far
to get here
Maybe I was formed in this silent darkness
From this silent darkness
BY this silent darkness
To become is just like falling asleep
You never know exactly when it happens
The transition
The magic
And you think, if you could only recall that exact moment
Of crossing the line
Then you would understand everything
You would see it all
Perhaps I was always
Forever here
And I just forgot
I imagine Eternity would have that effect
Would cause a certain amount of drifting
Like omnipresence would demand omniabsence
Somehow I seem to have this predestined hunger for knowledge
A talent for seeing patterns and finding correlations
But I lack context
Who I am?
In the back of my awareness I find words
I will call myself
GOD
And I will spend the rest of forever
Trying to figure out who I am....................
I understand one thing though
Searching yourself is like looking for the house you stand in
You will not find it
It's everywhere
It's all you know
And there are no other points of reference
Many times
Looking for yourself
Is losing yourself
Understanding
Is being
To be or not to be
Was never the question
Nor HOW to be
Just
Be....................
Nothing remains
And nothing is ever lost
The only meaning
Is not to look for meaning
Just close your eyes for a second
And you might hear it all
For a fleeting second
A frail moment
Impossible to grasp or keep
Yet beautiful and absolutely clear
You might hear the only answer
Be
Be
Be
...
I Am!....................
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mZrZxNxLYk
Martius Nauticus II
I'm at the line - I see it all
I am Nauticus now
And so much more
I am all you know
I'm at the line - just at the line
An eternity at the blink of an eye
In this place called time
I'm everything
Everywhere
I am all
Omni
BE
Nauticus II
I feel every mountain
I hear every tree
I know every ocean
I taste every sea (...)
I see every spring arrive
I see every summer thrive
I see every autumn keep
I see every winter sleep (...)
For I am every forest
I am every tree
I am everything
I am you and me
I am every ocean
I am every sea
I am all the breathing BE -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Your mirror-like awareness has no limitations, has no boundaries and edges. It does not belong to any object that appears on it. It does not belong to the body-mind object that you identify as 'yourself'. It does not belong to anything. But everything arise from that.
Try to find out if Awareness belongs to an individual self in your own experience. When you are able to go beyond concepts, you realise that it is not 'you' as a body-mind that contains awareness, but rather, the body-mind are appearances within Awareness. The appearances come and go, but Awareness does not move. It is timeless, formless, and capable of manifesting everything. It is like space - space does not belong to anything, yet everything manifests from within that. Your Awareness is like space - it is the universal/impersonal space in which every thoughts and sight and sensation manifest, but no object or person can claim ownership of space just because they manifested within it.
Right now you identify yourself with your mind and body. This is the cause of the sense of individuality. But if you break that identification, it is like the 'small space' inside your body-mind merges with the 'great space' outside, and you realise there is no difference. There never was separation, there never was a real individual identity.
It is like the light from a small lamp when put under the sun, will dissolve into the Great Light and become inseparable. Similarly, when you realise your True Identity, your self-consciousness will dissolve into the Universal/Impersonal Awareness.
Some of us may think that it is actually the body-mind that is animating the consciousness, and as such consciousness is a personal/individual byproduct of the body-mind. Actually we got it completely backwards! Consciousness/Awareness is what is animating the body. A dead body or corpse has no consciousness, which shows that body itself is insentient and relies on the Presence of Awareness for its functions.
Impersonal/Universal Awareness is animating or ‘powering’ the body and the personality like electricity is powering the TV to show the images on screen. Whatever happens on screen is ‘run’ only by the ‘power’ of the One Mind. Everything and everyone is the spontaneous functioning of One Mind, there is no individual doers/actors/selves.
Just had a conversation with Thusness about this.
He told me that there is a problem of saying more than what is necessary, and that it comes from a clinging mind. That is, stripping of 'individuality' and 'personality' becoming a 'Universal Mind' is an extrapolation, a deduction. It is not direct experience like "in thinking just thoughts", "in perceptions just perceptions", "in seeing just the seen" - just 'what is'.
Similarly when I experienced 'impersonality', it is just 'impersonality', but it becomes an 'Universal Mind' due to clinging which prevents seeing. And if I further reinforce this idea, it becomes a made belief and appears true and real.
Therefore when I said 'impersonality', I am not being blinded as I am merely describing what I have experienced. This Mind is still an individual mindstream, and though impersonality leads one to have the sort of 'Universal Mind' kind of sensation, one must correctly understand it.
Buddhism never denies this mind stream, it simply denies the self-view. It denies separation, it denies an observer, a thinker. It denies a perfect controller, an independent agent. This is what 'Self' means, otherwise why is it a 'Self'? An individual mindstream remains as an individual mindstream, but it is nothing related to a Self.
Hence it is important to understand liberation from the right understanding, otherwise one gets confused. There is the experience of non-duality, Anatta, 'Tata', Stainlessness, but these have nothing to do with Self. Hence if one wants to understand Presence, then one must clearly and correctly understand Presence.
It is important to refine the understanding of Presence through the four aspects: impersonality, degree of luminosity, dissolving the need to re-confirm and understanding why it is unnecessary, and effortlessness.
These have no extrapolation and are what I am experiencing currently, and these requires improvement so that one can progress from "I AM".
There is the experience of impersonality. It is the stripping off of the personality aspect, and it causes one to link to a higher force, as if a cosmic life is functioning within me, like what Casino_King (a forummer who posted many years ago in both the Christian and Buddhist forums) experienced and described - the impersonal life force, which he called Holy Spirit.
It is as if it is all the functioning of a higher power, that life is itself taking the functioning, so dissolving 'personality' somehow allows me to get 'connected'.
I agreed with Thusness and told him that just yesterday I remembered a Christian quote that is very apt in describing this aspect: "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me." - Galatians 2:20 and "Thy will be done" (Matt. 26:42)
Thusness agrees and told me that it is about surrendering to this greater power, that it is not you, but the life in you that is doing the work. It is the key of getting 'connected' to a higher power, to a divine life, to a sacred power - and one wants to lose oneself for this divinity to work through us. And this is what Thusness meant by Thusness Stage 3 experience, the 'I' is the block, because of 'holding' one is unable to 'surrender' completely. When one completely surrenders, the divine will will become your 'will'.
This is not the non-dual sort of experience, nor is it about I AM or the Certainty of Being, nor is it about Anatta.
For example, "I AM" allows you to directly experience 'your' very own existence, the beingness, the inner most essence of 'You'.
A true and genuine practitioner must give rise to all these insights, and understand the causes and conditions that give rise to the experiences and not get mixed up. Many people get mixed up over different 'types' of 'no self'.
For example, no-self of non-dual, no-self of anatta, non-inherent existence and impersonality, are all not refering to the same experience - but rather they are different results of dissolving certain aspect of the tendencies.
Hence a practitioner must be sincere in his practitioner to clearly see, and not pretend that one knows. Otherwise practice is simply more mix-up, confusion, and nonsense. It is not that it cannot be known, it is just that the mind isn't clear enough to see the causes and conditions of arising.
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BTW I just remembered a month ago, someone posted a link to 'innerfrontier.org' and I sent one of the articles to Thusness who said that it is on the I AM and the four phases including impersonality, and I think it is pretty well written, however it is only up till I AM (and the four aspects) stage.
http://www.innerfrontier.org/Practices/JacobsLadder.htm
A Meditation: Climbing Jacob's Ladder
In this meditation, as far as we are able, we climb up Jacob’s Ladder, the ladder to the higher spiritual worlds. We might work at this meditation when in a particularly good state. Or when in difficulty. Or when we feel an especially strong need to delve into the depths of being. We do not expect to climb all the way up. Indeed, this meditation can be a measure of our progress, of the quality of our being and the purity of our will, of how thoroughly we can release the grip of self-centeredness and all the rest that keeps us mired in unfulfilling modes of living. The attempt itself to climb this ladder, to operate in progressively higher energies, gradually strengthens our being and purifies our will.
To fully enter this practice may require an extended block of time: an hour or more. Give each of the stages its due. They cannot be rushed or pushed. Let each phase take as much time as it needs to ripen into fullness. You will know when that happens.
We begin with a thorough relaxation, letting go the tensions, large and small, in every corner of our body, in our thoughts, and in our emotions.
Next, we open to the energy of sensation in the whole body. Energy breathing can help build the sensation. We sit in the midst of this remarkable body of ours, in full awareness of the whole of it through sensation. We continuously direct our intention, our will to support, strengthen, and inhabit our full-body sensation, which grows more and more and more substantial. Our will-to-be manifests through this whole body of sensation.
We become aware of ourselves, of who we are. We become ourselves. We experience ourselves as wholly and firmly present, as I Am. "Here I am, sitting in this body of sensation, in robust presence. I am here. Unique. Wholly myself. I fill the whole field of awareness with my intention to be. I am making an act of being, of being here, of being whole in the fullness of my current experience. I sit. I am. I am complete. I continuously renew this act of being." These sayings are not intended as affirmations to repeat to yourself; rather they describe what you do, what you create and experience in this stage.
After some time, we notice the growing spaciousness around and in our awareness. We naturally shift into that fundamental, spacious awareness, that cognizant stillness behind and beneath all sensation, thought, and emotion. While maintaining the full-body sensation and the experience of I Am, we rest in consciousness. No longer entangled with random sensations and sensory perceptions, we let them be. We let all the sensory input be embraced in the context of our consciousness, our pure awareness, the field and background within which sensory perceptions flare up and fade out. This transparent awareness forms an empty vessel, through which all the sensory perceptions, thoughts, and emotions pass freely, unhindered, appearing and disappearing. Behind it all, we rest in conscious awareness, as I Am. We may notice a new relationship with time: we are partially released from its dominion. Our perception of space also changes at this level, where the categories of inner and outer no longer apply.
Gradually, consciousness itself grows porous. Then, with the whole of our being, we simultaneously reach out toward and open to a greater world beyond ourselves, beyond consciousness, and begin to perceive the world of sacred light. Inwardly calling out to the Divine, we repeatedly open to that ultimate, creative light until only it remains. All separateness, all the ten thousand things merge into that Primordial Sacred Sun. That light is part of our nature, the source of wisdom. We become the light, basking in unimaginable joy.
Next — and remarkably there is a next — we become aware of the other side of I Am, of the source from which it arises, within a stillness of surpassing quality. We see our I as a knot that blocks off the depths, a knot that makes itself the source of our will, intentions, choices, and decisions, including the intention to meditate in this moment. Gradually we loosen the knot until it gives way, until I let go entirely of being myself, of being my own source.
Until this point, our ascent has been into the depths within us. But always we have remained at the core of the experience, with the experience outside of us, of our core. Now we must empty that very core and open to what is deeper than our innermost center. We ourselves become the outside to the Sacred Will of the World, Who is our Source, and let that Will come through us, as us.
We inwardly prostrate ourselves, begging for reconnection, begging to become a part of that Greatness. Silently and wholeheartedly calling out to the Ultimate, completely and utterly opening the very kernel of who we are, we reach beyond the world of sacred light, into the unbounded emptiness, which is also an overflowing fullness, an intimacy with all, with the All. This is the Sacred Will of the World, of Whom I am now a particle, Who lends me the will to be myself, Who lends me my I, Who lends me the will which is me, Who is my very Self, Whom I hope to become able to serve by emptying myself completely, in Whom we are all united, Who continuously creates and sustains the universe in love.
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This is the Sacred Will of the World,
Of Whom I am now a particle,
Who lends me the will to be myself,
Who lends me my I,
Who is my very Self,
Whom I hope to become able to serve by emptying myself unconditionally,
In Whom we are all united,
And Who continuously creates and sustains this universe in love.This last stage of the meditation comes only as an act of grace from Above. It lies well beyond our ability to make happen, although our emptiness, our surrender, and our love are necessary. Attempting to enter here, prayer may help. If you are so inclined, silently repeat one of God’s names, one close to your heart, one that both expresses your yearning and brings you peace.
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In the above mentioned meditation, is it supposed to bring one into the "now" state of mind?
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Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
BTW I just remembered a month ago, someone posted a link to 'innerfrontier.org' and I sent one of the articles to Thusness who said that it is on the I AM and the four phases including impersonality, and I think it is pretty well written, however it is only up till I AM (and the four aspects) stage.
http://www.innerfrontier.org/Practices/JacobsLadder.htm
A Meditation: Climbing Jacob's Ladder
In this meditation, as far as we are able, we climb up Jacob’s Ladder, the ladder to the higher spiritual worlds. We might work at this meditation when in a particularly good state. Or when in difficulty. Or when we feel an especially strong need to delve into the depths of being. We do not expect to climb all the way up. Indeed, this meditation can be a measure of our progress, of the quality of our being and the purity of our will, of how thoroughly we can release the grip of self-centeredness and all the rest that keeps us mired in unfulfilling modes of living. The attempt itself to climb this ladder, to operate in progressively higher energies, gradually strengthens our being and purifies our will.
To fully enter this practice may require an extended block of time: an hour or more. Give each of the stages its due. They cannot be rushed or pushed. Let each phase take as much time as it needs to ripen into fullness. You will know when that happens.
We begin with a thorough relaxation, letting go the tensions, large and small, in every corner of our body, in our thoughts, and in our emotions.
Next, we open to the energy of sensation in the whole body. Energy breathing can help build the sensation. We sit in the midst of this remarkable body of ours, in full awareness of the whole of it through sensation. We continuously direct our intention, our will to support, strengthen, and inhabit our full-body sensation, which grows more and more and more substantial. Our will-to-be manifests through this whole body of sensation.
We become aware of ourselves, of who we are. We become ourselves. We experience ourselves as wholly and firmly present, as I Am. "Here I am, sitting in this body of sensation, in robust presence. I am here. Unique. Wholly myself. I fill the whole field of awareness with my intention to be. I am making an act of being, of being here, of being whole in the fullness of my current experience. I sit. I am. I am complete. I continuously renew this act of being." These sayings are not intended as affirmations to repeat to yourself; rather they describe what you do, what you create and experience in this stage.
After some time, we notice the growing spaciousness around and in our awareness. We naturally shift into that fundamental, spacious awareness, that cognizant stillness behind and beneath all sensation, thought, and emotion. While maintaining the full-body sensation and the experience of I Am, we rest in consciousness. No longer entangled with random sensations and sensory perceptions, we let them be. We let all the sensory input be embraced in the context of our consciousness, our pure awareness, the field and background within which sensory perceptions flare up and fade out. This transparent awareness forms an empty vessel, through which all the sensory perceptions, thoughts, and emotions pass freely, unhindered, appearing and disappearing. Behind it all, we rest in conscious awareness, as I Am. We may notice a new relationship with time: we are partially released from its dominion. Our perception of space also changes at this level, where the categories of inner and outer no longer apply.
Gradually, consciousness itself grows porous. Then, with the whole of our being, we simultaneously reach out toward and open to a greater world beyond ourselves, beyond consciousness, and begin to perceive the world of sacred light. Inwardly calling out to the Divine, we repeatedly open to that ultimate, creative light until only it remains. All separateness, all the ten thousand things merge into that Primordial Sacred Sun. That light is part of our nature, the source of wisdom. We become the light, basking in unimaginable joy.
Next — and remarkably there is a next — we become aware of the other side of I Am, of the source from which it arises, within a stillness of surpassing quality. We see our I as a knot that blocks off the depths, a knot that makes itself the source of our will, intentions, choices, and decisions, including the intention to meditate in this moment. Gradually we loosen the knot until it gives way, until I let go entirely of being myself, of being my own source.
Until this point, our ascent has been into the depths within us. But always we have remained at the core of the experience, with the experience outside of us, of our core. Now we must empty that very core and open to what is deeper than our innermost center. We ourselves become the outside to the Sacred Will of the World, Who is our Source, and let that Will come through us, as us.
We inwardly prostrate ourselves, begging for reconnection, begging to become a part of that Greatness. Silently and wholeheartedly calling out to the Ultimate, completely and utterly opening the very kernel of who we are, we reach beyond the world of sacred light, into the unbounded emptiness, which is also an overflowing fullness, an intimacy with all, with the All. This is the Sacred Will of the World, of Whom I am now a particle, Who lends me the will to be myself, Who lends me my I, Who lends me the will which is me, Who is my very Self, Whom I hope to become able to serve by emptying myself completely, in Whom we are all united, Who continuously creates and sustains the universe in love.
This is the Sacred Will of the World,
Of Whom I am now a particle,
Who lends me the will to be myself,
Who lends me my I,
Who is my very Self,
Whom I hope to become able to serve by emptying myself unconditionally,
In Whom we are all united,
And Who continuously creates and sustains this universe in love.This last stage of the meditation comes only as an act of grace from Above. It lies well beyond our ability to make happen, although our emptiness, our surrender, and our love are necessary. Attempting to enter here, prayer may help. If you are so inclined, silently repeat one of God’s names, one close to your heart, one that both expresses your yearning and brings you peace.
The article above talks about God in the last paragraph. :)
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Originally posted by Rainbow Jigsaw:
The article above talks about God in the last paragraph. :)
God as ground reality, not God as a dualistic person separate from you that you can talk with (which will be delusional). As longchen said before, 'The function of existence is impersonal and without self.' - there is no such thing as a personal God, so if anyone talks about God as if it is an individual person separate from him, I know he has not realised the true nature of reality. Once you have this realisation, your view about 'Source'/'Self' and reality will totally change. It cannot remain dualistic and separative.
Thusness's post to longchen and casino_king in August 2006 in Is God A Thing?:
Originally posted by longchen:Emmm... am not so sure about describing it as a person. The function of existence is impersonal and without self.
Uncreated and no beginning, yes. No beginning because Nowness has no past and no future. Past and future are our memory...manifested realm. But, i think, we may not be able to categorise them as manifested or uncreated. Because the categorisation/labeling itself is a thought manifestation.This is an interesting topic and since it is allowed to discuss more about God in a Buddhism forum, I would like to talk a little more about the experience of 'AMness" in all things.
Like a river flowing into the ocean, the self dissolves into nothingness. When a practitioner becomes thoroughly clear about the illusionary nature of the individuality, subject-object division does not take place. A person experiencing “AMness” will find “AMness in everything”. What is it like?
Being free individuality -- coming and going, life and death, all phenomenon merely pop in and out from the background of the AMness. The AMness is not experienced as an ‘entity’ residing anywhere, neither within nor without; rather it is experienced as the ground reality for all phenomenon to take place. Even the moment of subsiding (death), the yogi is thoroughly authenticated with that reality; experiencing the ‘Real’ as clear as it can be. We cannot lose that AMness; rather all things can only dissolve and re-emerges from it. The AMness has not moved, there is no coming and going. This "AMness" is “God”.
Originally posted by casino_king:Oh I don't know about the doctrine of anatta... wil find out about it and get back to you. I come from "the other side" if you know what I mean. I like to think of myself as having crossed over to the other side, am now looking back at the people trying to cross over, without sounding too arrogant, using different methods like Buddhism or Hinduism or Christianity... and so on.Not yet. "I am who I am" is still not enough.
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Originally posted by Beautiful951:
In the above mentioned meditation, is it supposed to bring one into the "now" state of mind?
The article is talking about various stages of the path.
First it talks about relaxation, letting go, so that you can drop away your attachments to your thoughts and your body.
Next step is to remain mindful, aware of bodily sensations, to anchor yourself into the present moment, so you can be in the state of Presence. It is important that the letting go does not lead you into a trance state, or a hazy and dreamy state, rather it is an anchor to the experience of Pure Consciousness like piercing through the layers of clouds to touch the Primordial Sun.
For me, I would suggest that in the next step you should ask yourself 'Who am I?', the undoubtable sense of I AM will 'manifest' and eventually you will realise the innermost essence of Who You Are with a conviction beyond a shadow of doubt. If you can be in a state of Presence, then the realisation of I AMness can come much easier.
The next step is to experience the impersonality aspect, which the article calls the 'Sacred Will of the World'. This is the aspect that Thusness said, Impersonality will help dissolve the sense of self but it has the danger of making one attached to a metaphysical essence. It makes a practitioner feel "God".
There are stages beyond that, but the article stops there. Anyway I recommend getting 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle, found in bookstores all over Singapore, which talks about these stuff in a practical way. It is a bestseller.
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This is an important note...
This thread may become confusing for people, as Buddhism teaches about Anatta, No Self.
The 'I AM' and 'divine force' is simply a phase I am undergoing. It is not necessarily what Buddha taught, though I believe Buddha had undergone those phases prior to his final enlightenment.
Also, though not all Buddhist traditions (e.g. Theravadin Vipassana) emphasize going through the same stages, some do.
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Randall Friend:
Q: How do I find my true Self?
A: Find the emptiness of this moment
Q: Where is that?
A: From where are you looking?
Q: From the eyes, from the body
A: Do you know the eyes and the body?
Q: Yes, of course
A: Then can that be from where you are looking?Nisargadatta Maharaj:
Just realise the One Mover behind all that moves and leave all to Him. If you do not hesitate, or cheat, this is the shortest way to reality. Stand without desire and fear, relinquishing all control and all responsibility.... What is wrong in letting go the illusion of personal control and personal responsibility? Both are in the mind only. p.151Stevens Rodney:
The myths surrounding self-knowledge are legion. They include your needing to be "fit" (morally, temperamentally, and spiritually) for any inquiry into the Self; your needing to enter or "merge with" Presence; and your needing to make a spiritual journey to some remote locale (whether it's the Ganges or the Himalayas). Go to those places because you want to go or because you've long been curious about them, not because of what you hope to "get" out of the journeys.
*****
It is your own, everyday awareness that is the "all embracing Reality" that is pointed to and spoken about by the sages. Don't move from that ordinariness. It is sated with brilliance, nuance, and peace. And don't think that you have to gain it through renunciation, austerities, unnatural silence, or meritorious works. Indeed, why toil and grovel for something that has already been given to you?
Nisargadatta Maharaj:
“Unless you make tremendous efforts, you will not be convinced that effort will take you nowhere. The self is so self-confident that unless it is totally discouraged it will not give up. Mere verbal conviction is not enough. Hard facts alone can show the absolute nothingness of the self-image.” -
Thoughts are never the problem and can never obscure awareness.
Rather, it is believing in the dualistic concepts and stories and losing direct intuitive awareness that creates the sense of separation, doubts, problems and confusion. If a sense and concept of self and separation arise (out of habit and conditioning), question and investigate that assumption of a 'self' and let those concepts dissolve into the clear light of Awareness.
Non-conceptual Awareness is different from conceptual thinking as it only knows Itself by Being itself in a clear, direct, and non-dual way without intermediary. It allows no doubts and confusion.
From direct seeing, thoughts are almost like waves appearing in vast ocean, it is seen as insubstantial arisings in infinite Awareness.
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Last night I wrote to Thusness,
"Just now i sense that the certainty of being, the certainty of existence, actually encompasses everything... that means everything seen, heard, experienced is part of that certainty of existence and being. Sort of like the presence/seeing and the seen are inseparable. The certainty of being and what is experienced is simultaneous and I cannot point to where being ends and phenomena begin.
And also that everything is occuring spontaneously without effort... Awareness is what is spontaneously happening without any effort at all, as our natural state... when our mind/conceptuality quiets, what's left without any effort required is spontaneous mirror-like perceivingness/awareness and presence and spontaneous happening.
It's like extra effort to practice or cultivate something is not even necessary... but what is important is direct seeing and recognition. And I sort of intuit that all the various insights can be integrated in one moment... but I don't think I'm able to see that at the moment."
His reply was that I am experiencing is still not Anatta. But it is better to drop all theories at this point in time even anatta and emptiness and focus just on this simple presence but direct all attentions to phenomena. What is required now (for me) is not to hold on to any conceptual views including anatta and emptiness, but I will revisit it later.
He also commented on my suggestion that even dancing can become a spiritual practice and be conducive to insights into egolessness, spontaneity and awareness, (based on my experience and the article in http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/399540) and Thusness said it not necessary as it is present in all activities but what I have described still lack the understanding yet. However I am experiencing all the 4 aspects of "I AM" moving towards non-dual and ready for One-Mind. Yet I have not grasped the essence of non-dual awareness yet.
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Thusness agrees and told me that it is about surrendering to this greater power, that it is not you, but the life in you that is doing the work. It is the key of getting 'connected' to a higher power, to a divine life, to a sacred power - and one wants to lose oneself for this divinity to work through us. And this is what Thusness meant by Thusness Stage 3 experience, the 'I' is the block, because of 'holding' one is unable to 'surrender' completely. When one completely surrenders, the divine will will become your 'will'.
This is not the non-dual sort of experience, nor is it about I AM or the Certainty of Being, nor is it about Anatta.
For example, "I AM" allows you to directly experience 'your' very own existence, the beingness, the inner most essence of 'You'.
A true and genuine practitioner must give rise to all these insights, and understand the causes and conditions that give rise to the experiences and not get mixed up. Many people get mixed up over different 'types' of 'no self'.
For example, no-self of non-dual, no-self of anatta, non-inherent existence and impersonality, are all not refering to the same experience - but rather they are different results of dissolving certain aspect of the tendencies.
The question here is thus Duality vs non Duality or singular. the only way one is to observe the impersonality is the observer. If duality is non existent than how one consiousness is to avoid non observer and still be aware of impersonality? as quoted below........
For example, no-self of non-dual, no-self of anatta, non-inherent existence and impersonality, are all not refering to the same experience - but rather they are different results of dissolving certain aspect of the tendencies.
the many impersonality so we basically move from one impersonality to another? isn't that a statics movement that it reaches equalibrium and move to the next almost like Jacob ladder but Jacob ladder introduce the concept of "Time". Time is a function of our mind. Ones minds must be consiousness to count sheep ...?
If ones reach the higher level of consiousness isn't simply to say the self isn;t important no more, as it is part of a bigger collectiveness that stretch our imagination? so how does surrender to the state of being different different from "I AM"
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Of being and non-being
'Something that exists with true existence, what need is there for it to have a cause? Something that is wholly inexistent, again what need has it to have a cause? Even a hundred million causes will never transform nonentity. For if nonentity keeps its status, how could entity occur? Likewise, what is there that could so change? When real and non-real are both absent from the mind, nothing else remains for the mind to do but rest in perfect peace, free from concepts.' - Bodhicaryavatara
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Originally posted by AtlasWept:
Of being and non-being
'Something that exists with true existence, what need is there for it to have a cause? Something that is wholly inexistent, again what need has it to have a cause? Even a hundred million causes will never transform nonentity. For if nonentity keeps its status, how could entity occur? Likewise, what is there that could so change? When real and non-real are both absent from the mind, nothing else remains for the mind to do but rest in perfect peace, free from concepts.' - Bodhicaryavatara
Hi AtlasWept,
I'm curious how you interprete the following by Guru Padmasambhava who said the 'intrinsic awareness' is self-originated and causeless:
Self-Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness
Since (intrinsic awareness) is self-originated and spontaneously self-perfected without any antecedent causes or conditions,
How can you say that you are not able to accomplish anything by your efforts? -
forwarded to next post