The Intermediate Stage After Death (article)
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For most of us ordinary beings, when we die we will transform into an Intermediate bardo state for up to 49 days before we are reborned.
I have uploaded 3 pages regarding on the Antarabhava written by my master Shen Kai:
Even different kinds people have forms of Antarabhava! (zhong ying sheng)
This is generally the Mahayana view, and is also supported by the Bardo teachings of Tibetan Buddhism.
As for Theravada, what I know is that the suttas does not reject, but instead, supports the idea of Antarabhava. It is particularly the Abhidhamma which rejects Antarabhava, however, it should be noted that the Abhidhamma is a latter commentary and not a discourse given by Buddha himself.
Apart from many other fundamentalist Theravadins who accept the Anatarabhava, the famous Theravada Venerable Ajahn Brahmavamso, the Australian monk who just came to Singapore to give a discourse, himself accepts the existence of the Anatarabhava due to his own experience dealing with the dead. -
Apart from these articles, my dharma teachers, especially my Taiwanese dharma teacher had first hand encounters with such bardo beings and have given some description and sharing about them previously.
Not only has my taiwanese dharma teacher seen for himself the antarabhava, he has his own experience of certain bardo stages before reviving again. Meaning he has died and revived. If i say the whole story here, maybe too unbelievable. -
ic, they do have Antarabhava now do they(Thervadin)...interesting. any more info on 'Antarabhava'? i mean in sutra or pali or sanskirt?
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I am also interested...
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read tibetan book of the dead to understand the tibetan bardo
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From the Theravadin PerspectiveOriginally posted by sinweiy:ic, they do have Antarabhava now do they(Thervadin)...interesting. any more info on 'Antarabhava'? i mean in sutra or pali or sanskirt?
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From http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/lofiversi...php/t17918.html,
Basically, Ajahn Brahm (and the forest monks of Ajahn Chah) believe
there is an antarabhava, partly from the numerous accounts in the
Suttas, and according to Ajahn his personal experiences dealing with
the dying in Thailand (I have not inquired further on this). Hoping he
has written on this and will be published.
From http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/7751?viscount=100,
> >*Intermediate State between Existences*
> >
> >In contrast to the orthodox stand, there is significant Pali canonical
evidence strongly suggestive of an intermediate state between one existence and
another, a view supported by Theravada fundamentalists. Various suttas from the
Nikayas clearly talk about a state of existence before actual rebirth as a
another sentient being. Let me quote some examples from them.
> >
> >In Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta (MN 3
the Buddha states that for conception to
occur, one of the conditions is that the being to be reborn (gandhabba) has to
be present at the moment of union between the father and mother. Here, it is
implicitly stated that there is an intermediate state of existence between death
in the previous existence and rebirth in the next.
> >
> >There are various references to the rebirths of bodhisattas as well as other
beings, which also imply as much. According to Sampasadaniya Sutta (DN 2 and
Sangiti Sutta (DN 33), some beings "enter the mother's womb unknowing, stay
there unknowing and leave it unknowing", while others "enter the mother's womb
knowing, stay there knowing, and leave it unknowing". One who "enters the
mother's womb knowing, stays there knowing and leaves it knowing� is, according
to the commentary, a bodhisatta in its last rebirth. This is confirmed by
several suttas that describe the bodhisatta's moment of entry into the mother's
womb as "being mindful and fully aware�. [Mahapadana Sutta (DN 14);
Acchariya-abbhuta Sutta (MN 123); Pathama-tathagata-acchariya Sutta (AN 4: 27);
Bhumicala Sutta (AN 8:70)].
> >
> >There are references to a fivefold typology of non-returners, one of which is
called antaraparinibbayi (�attainer of Nibbana in the interval�
, in the
Samyutta Nikaya (SN 48:15, 24, 66, 51:26, 54:5, 55:25); Purisagati Sutta (AN
7:55) and Samyojana Sutta (AN 4:131). Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi, in his "The Connected
Discourses of the Buddha: a new translation of the Samyutta Nikaya", Volume II
(Note 65, Pp 1902-1903), argues (with support from Samyojana Sutta) that the
antaraparinibbayi is "�one who has abandoned the fetter of rebirth
(upapattisamyojana) without yet having abandoned the fetter of existence
(bhavasamyojana)."
> >
> >Orthodox Theravadins argue against this interpretation of the
antaraparinibbayi because in the Kathavatthu (e.g. Kv 366), an Abhidhamma text
regarded by them as canonical, the idea of antarabhava (intermediate life) was
strongly refuted.
> >
> >However, there is further evidence to consider. In Metta Sutta (Khp 9, Sn
1: there is reference to bhuta (those who have been born) and sambhavesi
(those seeking birth). Several suttas [Channovada Sutta (MN 144); Channa Sutta
(SN 4:35:87); Catuttha-nibbana-patisamyutta Sutta (Ud 74)] mention the states of
"here or beyond or between the two". Kutuhala Sutta (SN 4:44:9) also tells of "a
being [that] has laid down his body but has not yet been reborn in another
body".
> >
> >All the above references from the suttas implying an intermediate state of
existence should provide sufficient food for thought by Theravadins and ample
reason to keep an open mind regarding the mystery of dying and rebirth.
> >
> >Although fundamentalist Theravadins may subscribe to a belief of an
intermediate afterlife, it does not necessarily mean that they accept all of the
bardo (�gap in between� or intermediate state) teachings postulated by the
Vajrayana tradition.
btw, i was told by someone who visited Ajahn Brahm yesterday (he came Singapore for a talk), that Ajahn Brahm cld read his mind
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Oh no, xs.to is down
hope the server resumes soon
btw as for Mahayana, I heard Ksitigarbha Sutra and Amitabha Sutra contains info on them..
In Tibetan we have The Tibetan Book of the Dead and Dying
all these you all can google on them -
yeah, as for mahayana side, i've read and heard many already. am more interested in nan chuang side (ie Theravada).Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Oh no, xs.to is down
hope the server resumes soon
btw as for Mahayana, I heard Ksitigarbha Sutra and Amitabha Sutra contains info on them..
In Tibetan we have The Tibetan Book of the Dead and Dying
all these you all can google on them
but excellent infomations!
some info on Bardo posted:
The Bardo of Becoming
His Eminence Beru Khyentse Rinpoche
http://www.purifymind.com/BardoBecoming.htm
The Bardo between Birth and Death
His Eminence Beru Khyentse Rinpoche
http://www.purifymind.com/BardoBirthDeath.htm
The Bardo of the Dream State
His Eminence Beru Khyentse Rinpoche
http://www.purifymind.com/BardoDreamState.htm
The Bardo of Meditative Stability
His Eminence Beru Khyentse Rinpoche
http://www.purifymind.com/BardoMeditative.htm
The Tibetan Buddhist Teachings on Death and Rebirth
by Lama Ole Nydahl
http://inet.uni2.dk/home/borge/FRAME/buddhisme/tibdeath_f.html
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btw, just to refresh my memories...is zhong ying sheng = 7th consciousness? yes..right?
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Yes, our 7th consciousness takes a form after death according to our karma. It takes the antarabhava to be its self.Originally posted by sinweiy:btw, just to refresh my memories...is zhong ying sheng = 7th consciousness? yes..right?
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Thank you, you are always very resourceful!Originally posted by sinweiy:yeah, as for mahayana side, i've read and heard many already. am more interested in nan chuang side (ie Theravada).
but excellent infomations!
some info on Bardo posted:
The Bardo of Becoming
His Eminence Beru Khyentse Rinpoche
http://www.purifymind.com/BardoBecoming.htm
The Bardo between Birth and Death
His Eminence Beru Khyentse Rinpoche
http://www.purifymind.com/BardoBirthDeath.htm
The Bardo of the Dream State
His Eminence Beru Khyentse Rinpoche
http://www.purifymind.com/BardoDreamState.htm
The Bardo of Meditative Stability
His Eminence Beru Khyentse Rinpoche
http://www.purifymind.com/BardoMeditative.htm
The Tibetan Buddhist Teachings on Death and Rebirth
by Lama Ole Nydahl
http://inet.uni2.dk/home/borge/FRAME/buddhisme/tibdeath_f.html
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To those scepticists who think that Consciousness does not survive death, I can tell you that there are uncountable cases of NDE experiences. These experiences only occur when a person is DEAD, and such people often report floating up the body - and WITNESSING THE MEDICAL PROCEDURES. This is absolute proof that consciousness does indeed survive after death. Only the due to the dogmas of certain people cld not accept this.
For me, I have one such "dead" experience during sleep even though I have not been dead. I believe many of you have experience being unable to move at all in sleep, yet feeling 'awake' and conscious. For once, I have floated up my body, I was unable to control my body. I was aware of the surroundings of that room, and unable to get back to my body. I chanted buddha name and someone came into the room and woke me up. There are alot of such out of body experiences, sometimes in meditation (this is a side effect, not everyone experiences this, and also does not necessarily reflect a person's meditation achievements) -
is there a saying that when the zhong yin sheng if don't find a suitable realm to rebirth after the 49 days, they will 'stay' as wanderings spirits ie ghost realm?
or i mean what's the different or similarities between intermediate state beings(Gandharva), and pretas (hungry spirits)?
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If you know, there are 36 kinds of ghosts in Buddhism. Peta is one of them. Each of them have different shapes, "eat" (or consume) their food differently (mostly from smelling certain things), and have different kinds of sufferings.Originally posted by sinweiy:is there a saying that when the zhong yin sheng if don't find a suitable realm to rebirth after the 49 days, they will 'stay' as wanderings spirits ie ghost realm?
or i mean what's the different or similarities between intermediate state beings(Gandharva), and pretas (hungry spirits)?
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This is a small description of each of the 36 kinds of Spirits in Buddhism: http://80.237.203.157/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=46&topic=722&show=0
(could someone help me find the English version? thanks)
Intermediate State Beings, Antarabhava, will transform into spirits at the end of the 49 days. I don't think antarabhava = spirits. Antarabhava means an intermediate state between death and rebirth. A ghost still got another 'birth' I think. Once someone asked my dharma teacher how come there is a kind of ghost that are very smokey type... without much of a fixed shape. My dharma teacher told him that the antaravabhava is in the process of forming/transforming into a spirit, or the spirit is 'dying'... if my memory serves. -
In my previous life, I died in 1927 in Europe. In this life, I was reborn in 1971, Singapore.. There was no incarnation between... err... I think...
Anybody knows what happen to us in the in-between life?
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Usually it is this bardo state. But in some other circumstances, u cld be elsewhere? I don't know, perhaps you could ask someone (probably a great master) who can see into your past lives clearlyOriginally posted by longchen:In my previous life, I died in 1927 in Europe. In this life, I was reborn in 1971, Singapore.. There was no incarnation between... err... I think...
Anybody knows what happen to us in the in-between life? 
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bardo can't take so long wat, so many years. it's mostly in some other realms, that one can't remember. like hell realms or animal realm. all memories forgot liao.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Usually it is this bardo state. But in some other circumstances, u cld be elsewhere? I don't know, perhaps you could ask someone (probably a great master) who can see into your past lives clearly
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ic. Amituofo!Originally posted by An Eternal Now:If you know, there are 36 kinds of ghosts in Buddhism. Peta is one of them. Each of them have different shapes, "eat" (or consume) their food differently (mostly from smelling certain things), and have different kinds of sufferings.
This is a small description of each of the 36 kinds of Spirits in Buddhism: http://80.237.203.157/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=46&topic=722&show=0
(could someone help me find the English version? thanks)
Intermediate State Beings, Antarabhava, will transform into spirits at the end of the 49 days. I don't think antarabhava = spirits. Antarabhava means an intermediate state between death and rebirth. A ghost still got another 'birth' I think. Once someone asked my dharma teacher how come there is a kind of ghost that are very smokey type... without much of a fixed shape. My dharma teacher told him that the antaravabhava is in the process of forming/transforming into a spirit, or the spirit is 'dying'... if my memory serves.
but thought Peta = ghost.
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Depends, I think.Originally posted by sinweiy:ic. Amituofo!
but thought Peta = ghost.
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From a reliable Pali glossary: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/glossary.html
# Peta [peta; Skt. preta]: A "hungry shade" or "hungry ghost" — one of a class of beings in the lower realms, sometimes capable of appearing to human beings. The petas are often depicted in Buddhist art as starving beings with pinhole-sized mouths through which they can never pass enough food to ease their hunger. [MORE] -
An English translation of the 36 ghosts is in the process of translation to English by our kind moderator Sinweiy. so watch this space for the coming days... I think, it wld be better posted as a seperated topic too.
