Is God is kind enough to spare U from hell if not Christian?
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Demon Bane,
There are no missing years of Jesus. It was silent. Unrecorded that's all. No warrant to infer or speculate that Jesus went to India or what not. But Scriptures did give us some hints. If you read the Gospels you would note that those who knew Jesus said "Isn't he the son of Joseph the carpenter?", "Aren't these His brothers?" etc etc. Or that He came from Nazareth, or perhaps it should meant that He grew up in Nazareth.
BroInChrist,
You said there are no missing years. Lol. There ARE missing years which your bible does not say anything about. The bible failed to record the years when jesus was a child and teenager right to young adulthood.
THOSE are the missing years we are talking about.
It's a loophole and anything could have happened to jesus during those missing years, including falling into mischief/error or traveling to india to learn about buddhism. lETS Not be narrowminded be open to possibilities?
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Faith is not about having all the right answers....those questions are about religions and not exactly about faith....faith is a hunch, that there are greater things connecting everything....no matter how you named it....that hunch made all miracles possible.... that's why in all major religions, there are cases of miracles....
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Rooney,
Yes, science can explain to us many things in nature. But again please note that it was the Christian worldview that gave us modern science. Science is always playing catching up with the Bible. It was Jastrow who said the following words (from Wiki)
"Now we see how the astronomical evidence supports the biblical view of the origin of the world....the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same. Consider the enormousness of the problem : Science has proved that the universe exploded into being at a certain moment. It asks: 'What cause produced this effect? Who or what put the matter or energy into the universe?' And science cannot answer these questions. "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."No, it does not dawn on me that there is no God. If there is no God, then nothing can be known about anything at all. The universe has a beginning and beg a cause. The Christian holds that God is that cause, and this is a most logical and reasonable conclusion. The atheist holds that the universe made itself from nothing. But from nothing nothing comes, so how is your worldview a reasonable one?You talk about Pascal's Wager but seem not to know the intent and purpose of that line of apologetic, so I shall leave it at that. And why should telling others about my faith be an act of extremism? If so, then the Singapore Constitution is guilty of extremism since Article 15 (if I am not wrong) allows for that. Are you going to take this position? Hopefully not!Yes, the Bible teaches that there is a hell to avoid. Unpleasant? Sure it is. But this no more makes hell unreal just as prison is a real and unpleasant place to avoid going. We don't like the prospects of hell because we don't like punishment or judgement from God. Christianity does not gloss over the unpleasant parts. In fact, the Bible tells us to preach so that we can snatch souls from hell. Why do you suppose that Christians everywhere enjoy talking about hell? Truth is, we don't. There is a good reason why many Christians refrain from sharing their faith and prefer to engage in "lifestyle evangelism" because it is easier since it requires one to say nothing. It is not nice to tell people that nice people go to hell, but the Bible does not teach that nice people go to heaven. Being nice never qualify one for heaven. Being forgiven of our sins and being saved in Christ does.Again if you do not like what the Bible teaches, then please exercise the tolerance that the government talks about and just let it be. If someone approaches you with the good news, just politely say "not interested" and move on.
I cant believe what I am reading, your warped reasoning 
incoherent and irrational reasoning coming from you.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Rooney,
Yes, isn't it the amazing grace of God that even the most penitent criminal who repents can be forgiven and accepted into God's heaven? Such is the love of God for sinful men! Yes, I will not be surprised that in heaven there will be many surprises when it comes to who I will see in heaven.
Why should I entertain the thought that the criminal will wreak havoc in heaven? Does the Bible speak of that? Where? Not anywhere. In fact the book of Revelation tells us that there will be no more curse or evil as the devil and his followers will be thrown into the lake of fire where they will be tormented forever. There will be an eternity of heavenly bliss.
as usual, your warped reasoning again
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You people love christians and Christianity so much , so much so start your debate so early in the morning.
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Originally posted by Rooney_07: I cant believe what I am reading, your
warped reasoning
incoherent and irrational reasoning coming from you.
Rooney
It's called christian pseudo-science, which is not recognised by any academic institutions or ffield of study. Only recognised by churches.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
Rooney
It's called christian pseudo-science, which is not recognised by any academic institutions or ffield of study. Only recognised by churches.
pseudo science? so its not science at all lar in layman speak, pseudo
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Non christians, you all still have doubt about the statement? It is a clear message, don't believe in God you will go to hell. But let me tell you this - not every christian go to heaven.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BroInChrist,
You said there are no missing years. Lol. There ARE missing years which your bible does not say anything about. The bible failed to record the years when jesus was a child and teenager right to young adulthood.
THOSE are the missing years we are talking about.
It's a loophole and anything could have happened to jesus during those missing years, including falling into mischief/error or traveling to india to learn about buddhism. lETS Not be narrowminded be open to possibilities?
Yes Jesus was travelling in Asia during those times. The white guys do not want to admit it and hence removed it.There are proof that Jesus visited Kashmir along with other places.
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Originally posted by winsomeea:
Non christians, you all still have doubt about the statement? It is a clear message, don't believe in God you will go to hell. But let me tell you this - not every christian go to heaven.
why do I want to believe in something that doesnt exists
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Not quite true....Have u read any buddhists' scriptures and sutras? If u did, you would had found many similarities....
Demon Bane,
Are there similarities? Perhaps, and they are mostly in the moral behaviour aspect. But I think you missed the point I was making, which is that we cannot ignore the fundamental differences between religions.
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
How do you explain the holy monks from Tibet who came back many times as human beings? Aren't those proofs of reincarnation ?
How about people whom had recollection of their previous lives?
Is reincarnation the ONLY explanation for such things? Most claims to reincarnation involves hypnoticism which makes the possibility of planting information and memories that one does not have. And there is also the realm of the spirits. Evil spirits have been around for millenia and it is very possible that they could have influenced certain people today to "know" things about dead people in the past and thus to deceive people into reincarnation. So demonic deception can also be a plausible explanation.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BroInChrist
But there are so many "healthy debates" among christians. I personally have been to quite a number of churches when I was a christian and heard many christians "argue" or "demonise" each other about doctrines, beliefs etc. Below is a list --
method of salvation, megachurches, validity once saved always saved doctrine, validity of prosperity gospel, christian rock music, compulsory tithing, version of bible to use, nature of jesus, nature of heaven and hell, levels of heaven and hell, salvation process, salvation of nonchristians, interpretation of verses, number of books in bible, what is considered sinful, predestination, concept of trinity, tribulation stages, women preachers, baptism for salvation, tongues, healings, miracles, etc.
Never once had I hear 2 christians agree on the same belief/doctrine.
Tcmc,
Disagreement is normal and expected simply because no human have perfect knowledge. No 2 person agree on everything, so why sweat it? Despite our differences over many things, Christians also agree on many things. We call these the essentials of the faith. On these things we are united.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
Disagreement is normal and expected simply because no human have perfect knowledge. No 2 person agree on everything, so why sweat it? Despite our differences over many things, Christians also agree on many things. We call these the essentials of the faith. On these things we are united.
BroInCHrist
Disagreement is normal. But
1. Too many disagreements. That directly contradicts the bible verse that says that the church must be one. The church obviously isnt one.
2. Christians also disagree about essentials of faith like nature of person of jesus, salvation, nature of heaven/hell, trinity concept etc.
3. Disagreements are normal. But could it be because the "word of god" is too generic that people can anyhow interpret it?
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BroInChrist,
1. I did not say it could be eternal. Eternal means it cannot be destroyed. Why would I say that? Its common sense that the universe isnt eternal. Thats not the main point. The main point is HOW YOU attribute the universe to a creator just because it's complex. Huh? Where's the link? Must everything complex have a creator? Who says thaT?
2. You are narrowminded because you only consider your god true and the rest of the gods untrue when you havent even studied, explored other religions. Yes I dont believe in the existence of any gods, but I am OPEN to believing in any of the gods if there is empirical evidence one day. I know I could be wrong one day, if evidence shows up. How about you then? Do you think you could be wrong about your god? Are you open to the idea of the existence of other gods? I am, if evidence shows up. Are you?
3. You have lots of excuses for the errors in the bible. Oh there's a reason why god didnt call bats mammals. Oh theres a reason why god said the mustard seed was the smallest, even though it isn't, Oh theres a reason why there are numerical errors in 2 different books talking about the same thing. Oh there's a reason why the bible says jesus is god and also say jesus isn't god. Oh theres a reason why donkeys can talk, even though this is absurd. Oh there's a reason why a magic fruit can destroy people's lives. Oh there's a reason why the bible says god doesnt lie but then so many verses showed that he lied. You know, you can always find tons of excuses, because you will say at the end of the day that "god is mysterious". Convenient huh?
Tcmc,
1. Since you agree that the universe has a beginning, then at the very least you must concede that the Bible is correct on this. And you failed to read properly. I did not say that the universe needed a creator because the universe is complex. I said the universe had a beginning and thus a cause. The complexity of the universe points to the cause being an intelligent cause. And I did not also say that everything complex must have a cause, that was not my argument. Please don't put words in my mouth.
2. You charge me with narrow-mindedness because I only believe in One God? And you brag that you are open-minded, when you simply take the position of atheist and with one wave of the hand dismiss ALL gods and religions? Talk about intellectual dishonesty! Of all the religions in the world which have you studied, seriously? You claim to be open to the evidence, that is just paying lip-service to look good. An atheist is always CLOSE to the idea of the supernatural. You really have no clue as to what atheism is about. For me, I have come to the conclusion that theism is true, and atheism is an impossibility. Can Christianity be shown to be false? Sure. All you need to do is to prove that the resurrection could not have happened and never did. That was the test that Paul gave. You up to it?
3. What I offer as refutations of your objections you call them excuses. Why not just admit that the holes in your knowledge of Christianity were being plugged one by one and your objections systematically being demolished or neutralised? So long as a rational answer can be given to your objection, your case against the Christian faith is weakened. I have no need to prove every answer to you, I just need to show the reasonableness of the answer and that your objections are not as formidable as you think they are. And so far can you count the number of times I have employed the "God is mysterious" answer? Please make a count and report.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BroInCHrist
Disagreement is normal. But
1. Too many disagreements. That directly contradicts the bible verse that says that the church must be one. The church obviously isnt one.
2. Christians also disagree about essentials of faith like nature of person of jesus, salvation, nature of heaven/hell, trinity concept etc.
3. Disagreements are normal. But could it be because the "word of god" is too generic that people can anyhow interpret it?
Tcmc,
1. How many disagreements is considered too much? Do you understand what is meant by the church being one? I don't think so. The unity is spiritual, we are all one in Christ, in the same Body called the church. Being one does not mean we are mental clones of each other!
2. Christians do not disagree on the essentials of the faith. Those who deny certain key doctrines of the faith do not deserve the label. The bedrock of the Christian faith is the deity of Christ.
3. Have you ever heard the term hermeneutics or exegesis? While people can anyhow interpret the Bible, how do we conclude that they have indeed anyhow interpret it? Go do some reading on this before you reply.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Is reincarnation the ONLY explanation for such things? Most claims to reincarnation involves hypnoticism which makes the possibility of planting information and memories that one does not have. And there is also the realm of the spirits. Evil spirits have been around for millenia and it is very possible that they could have influenced certain people today to "know" things about dead people in the past and thus to deceive people into reincarnation. So demonic deception can also be a plausible explanation.
So you are saying that all those cases are "evil" and "satanic" or "demonic" in origins? This I could not agree with you....sorry...I think we can't discuss more on this...you can think all you want....someday, maybe you will accept other religious explanation...take care for now....
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
So you are saying that all those cases are "evil" and "satanic" or "demonic" in origins? This I could not agree with you....sorry...I think we can't discuss more on this...you can think all you want....someday, maybe you will accept other religious explanation...take care for now....
Demon Bane,
Under the Biblical worldview the influence of evil spirits cannot be ruled out. Satan is a liar and a deceiver. He will use any means to lead people away from true belief in God. You may not agree with my answer, but I don't think you can find fault with it within a Christian context.
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Originally posted by Tcmc:
BroInChrist,
You said there are no missing years. Lol. There ARE missing years which your bible does not say anything about. The bible failed to record the years when jesus was a child and teenager right to young adulthood.
THOSE are the missing years we are talking about.
It's a loophole and anything could have happened to jesus during those missing years, including falling into mischief/error or traveling to india to learn about buddhism. lETS Not be narrowminded be open to possibilities?
Tcmc,
You can only say those are missing years provided you have proven that there is a law somewhere stating that every year of Jesus must be recorded for us. There is no failure on the Bible in this regards, unless you can show that the Bible was supposed to have told us what happened in every year of His life. Until you can do that your objection is baseless. Why are you close-minded to the possibility that Jesus never step outside of Israel?
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Originally posted by Bio-Hawk:
Yes Jesus was travelling in Asia during those times. The white guys do not want to admit it and hence removed it.There are proof that Jesus visited Kashmir along with other places.
Cool Story Bro!
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Demon Bane,
Under the Biblical worldview the influence of evil spirits cannot be ruled out. Satan is a liar and a deceiver. He will use any means to lead people away from true belief in God. You may not agree with my answer, but I don't think you can find fault with it within a Christian context.
Does defending your position as a Christian makes u happy? No you can be correct on the christian perspective....hope you'll find true happiness!
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Originally posted by Demon Bane:
Does defending your position as a Christian makes u happy? No you can be correct on the christian perspective....hope you'll find true happiness!
many Christians found true happiness, that is why they die die also want to defend their position, have you found your true happiness?
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i tink he has which is to let go and let live...
anyway to reply to the thread...let me ask from an earthly perspective...are all parents kind enuff to allow ppl nt related to them to live in the same home as them???
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In my humble opinion,
Since this is a deep philosophical question,
I would like to answer this topic also from a philosophical point of view, so I emphasize and stress that I do not mean any disrespect towards anyone.
For me,
I think the concept of heaven and hell, and even reincarnation, etc etc, actually mostly they are human invention, aka, human storytelling.
It is just like a fairytale or a folks story.
It is a mythology.
So we do not need to dive deep down into the discussions about whether some people go to heaven or hell, and what happen to people who never heard of a certain religions, are they saved or not.
It is unnecessary as it is a moot point.
That is from my analysis and observation.
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Originally posted by BroInChrist:
Tcmc,
1. How many disagreements is considered too much? Do you understand what is meant by the church being one? I don't think so. The unity is spiritual, we are all one in Christ, in the same Body called the church. Being one does not mean we are mental clones of each other!
2. Christians do not disagree on the essentials of the faith. Those who deny certain key doctrines of the faith do not deserve the label. The bedrock of the Christian faith is the deity of Christ.
3. Have you ever heard the term hermeneutics or exegesis? While people can anyhow interpret the Bible, how do we conclude that they have indeed anyhow interpret it? Go do some reading on this before you reply.
1. Lol based on your narrow interpretations of the bible, you belong to the creationist-fundamentalist denomination. There are many other denominations which do not agree with you. Stop trying to pretend like the whole christianity is "united spiritually". Even within singapore, there are so many doctrine/belief issues christians argue about. I know because i have visited many diff churches before. Tongues and healings is one hot issue!
2. Who are you to say that that is what defines a christian? just because majority of christians believe jesus is god doesnt make it a hard fact. Many christians call themselves christians even though they do not believe jesus is god. These are the mormons and the JWs. And worldwide, they add up to the numbers of christians under the umbrella of christianity. Who are you to throw them out? Just because you are the majority you think you can overrun them?
3. Again, if thebible was straight to the point, precise and direct, there wouldnt be 20,000 denominations, hundreds of versions of bibles and so many different interpretations and kinds of christianities.