Hi, would like to check.
How much can I charge, if i help my friend to recontract my line , upgrade its plan to high end plan and get a free iphone out. (She's using my line, and my line is very low in monthly subscription but she wanna upgrade so that the iphone would be free of charge.)
Or is it too over if I take the phone as assurance in case this friend runs off halfway without paying the bill. It's $98++ monthly. Because she mainly wants a line as she bombed all her 3 telco bills, resulting her not being able to sign a new line (That happens when shes 18, shes now 25)
I have a issue going on now, and just wish to have some advice. (Don't tell me not to sign, cause I have already did that)
Need cash? Sign up for phone line
NEED cash fast? Above 18 and have an IC?
Then just call the handphone number listed in the advertisement, do what you're told and you'll be paid $500.
Incredulous? But Mr Seng Soon Meng, 50, fell completely for it, thinking it was a great opportunity to make a quick buck.
After all, both he and his 22-year-old Vietnamese wife are unemployed and they needed money to supplement their household income.
True enough, the deal was too good to be true.
Not only did Mr Seng not make any money, he's now saddled with almost $3,600 in termination fees that he claims he cannot afford to pay.
Mr Seng claimed he saw the ad on 7 Feb.
It said: Need Cash? Just sign up for a new line!
Seduced by the prospect of easy cash, he sent an SMS to the number listed.
Less than a minute later, a man, Sam, called back.
He told Mr Seng to meet him at noon at the Tiong Bahru Plaza taxi stand the next day.
'He said he wanted me to sign up for a few handphone lines under my name and that I would be paid $500 for each line,' said Mr Seng.
Naively, he did as he was told. After meeting, they took a taxi to the StarHub shop at Plaza Singapura.
At Sam's instructions, Mr Seng signed up for three handphone lines under the 3G PowerValue 700 plan, which came with free handphones.
According to the StarHub website, the two-year plan's basic monthly subscription fee costs $82.93.
Said Mr Seng: 'Sam said he would take the handphones while I could keep the three SIM cards.'
As Mr Seng had signed up for three handphone lines, Sam said he would be paid $1,500.
2 more lines
Sam's friend, Kelvin, then came to pick both men up at about 2pm and drove them to the EpiCentre@Orchard, a SingTel dealer shop, where he was told to sign up for two more mobile lines.
For each line, he would be paid $800.
This time, he was asked to sign up for two iThree Plus plans , each of which came with a free iPhone.
Under this two-year plan, the monthly subscription fee for each line is $192.60.
After handing all the phones over, Sam asked Mr Seng to take a taxi to Bishan to meet a third man at Bishan MRT station.
There, he was told, was where he could collect his payment.
'However, there was nobody to meet me when I went there,' said a distraught Mr Seng.
After subsequent phone calls to Sam, he was then told to wait at the void deck of another block, which was about a 10-minute walk away.
Again, no one turned up to hand him the money.
Finally realising that the whole thing might have been a scam, Mr Seng made a report at the Bishan Neighbourhood Police Post at around 5pm.
But the bigger shock for him was yet to come.
Mr Seng terminated all five SingTel and StarHub mobile phone lines the next day.
But on 7 Mar, he received two SingTel and three StarHub bills amounting to about $3,600 in total - for early termination of the lines.
Mr Seng panicked, and wrote to both telcos to appeal.
SingTel agreed to waive the early termination charges for one of his SingTel lines.
However, he says he still cannot afford the remaining sum of more than $3,000 as both he and his wife are not working.
Mr Seng claims that he suffers from schizophrenia, and that his condition has prevented him from holding on to a job. His last job was that of a security guard some two years ago. His family is also on financial assistance under the South West Community Development Council.
For now, he can only hope that both telco operators will allow him to terminate the lines without having to pay the penalty.
Mr Seng admits that he was 'too trusting'.
He added: 'Sam told me that I would not even have to pay any subscription fee as long as I didn't activate the line.'
A police spokesman said they are investigating the case. He added that two other similar cases have been reported since last year.
This article was first published in The New Paper.
By Geraldine Yeo, newsroom intern
Wed, May 20, 2009
The New Paper
'I am not loan shark': money scheme involving handphones.
Shop boss lends cash for subsidised price of
phone as seller signs up for plan but the latter is left to make high
monthly payments.
Thu, Feb 04, 2010
The New Paper
By Tay Shi'an
EVERY year, the telecommunication companies (telcos) here write off millions in bad debts. Some of that debt is contributed by owners who can't pay their handphone subscription.
People like Mr David Yeo, the manager of a handphone shop at Toa Payoh, may be contributing to the problem.
But the second-hand handphone buyer calls his business a service.
He advertises in newspapers and entices potential customers with flyers.
Need quick cash? He has a solution.
Mr Yeo will walk with you into a M1, SingTel or StarHub shop and let you pick a phone.
He forks out money for you to pay the subsidised price of the phone while you sign up for a plan. You then hand over the phone and he gives you the rest of the cash as payment for it.
You walk away with the money, he walks away with the phone.
It's quick and costs you nothing, except for the monthly subscription.
Mr Yeo is offended when comparisons are made between him and a loan shark.
He said: "How am I an Ah Long? If you have nothing to sell, how can I give you money? After you sell, I don't owe you, you don't owe me, thank you very much.
"If I were an Ah Long, would I publish my address so big in the newspaper?"
He said about 70 per cent of his customers come to him because they are in financial difficulty - and he would rather they come to him than go to loan sharks.
Another handphone dealer in Yishun agreed. He declined to be named.
He said: "Just because you need a little bit of money, you don't want to create a big problem. I want to make profit, but I want to help you also."
Loophole
So customers are happy, shop owners like Mr Yeo have no complaints and the telcos say the problem does not have a significant impact on revenue.
What's the problem then? The handphone resellers maybe exploiting a loophole.
From electronic products, laptops and even jewellery, the instalment schemes have allowed customers easy access to quick cash. And the desperate have plenty of other schemes to pick from.
There are risky investments with CPF savings for commission kickbacks and upfront loans by so-called real estate agents who then slice the loan amount with interest from the sale price of the HDB flat.
They all share one thing in common - quick cash with little obvious pain.
The trouble comes when the buyers are unable to make the monthly payments.
The Consumers Association of Singapore (Case) is concerned - because the desperate usually don't realise how expensive these schemes really are.
Executive director Seah Seng Choon calculated that the difference between the cash received and instalments or monthly bills paid out - the "interest rate" - can be as high as 20 per cent.
The young are being sucked in too. He said most of the handful of cases he sees each year involve angry parents, whose teenagers had chalked up massive bills after signing up for plans with telcos or electronics companies and failed to make the monthly payments - and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
"I would say there are a lot more cases in the market than those that come to us," he said.
Lawyers point out that Mr Yeo's business is legal.
It is also a competitive trade and Mr Yeo offers free transport and even advice on the telcos with the best offers.
When this reporter walked into his shop last Thursday, an employee put us on the line with him.
He was in Woodlands, helping two men in their 40s sign up for iPhones with a telco. He had lent them about $300 in total to sign up for the two plans.
His shop, which also sells clocks, video games and electronic goods, is manned by five employees.
Sell at a loss
Said the 48-year-old, who has run the shop for about nine years: "My deal is simple. You need cash, you come to me. You have the ability to sign (for a new line), I will buy the phone from you, you take the line and you get to use it. Why not?"
Mr Yeo said he has provided the upfront payment and transport service for about four years, to ensure the customer sells the phone to him.
Because each trip takes two to three hours, he takes only one or two such customers on average per day, leaving his employees to man the shop or accompany others.
After buying the phones, he sells them to walk-in customers or other dealers who come to his shop.
He said his margin is "less than $100 a phone", though sometimes he's forced to sell at a loss when business is not so good.
He said the number of customers is unpredictable and he doesn't want to disclose how much he earns per month,but he added that he gets a lot of repeat customers - those who come to him once their contracts expire.
He said he does give customers advice if they ask which telco or plan to sign up for, and reminds them about the monthly bills after.
He said: "I tell them, if you don't pay, the (telco) will chase you. It's up to you to deal with them, to tell them you cannot pay, or work out instalments...you must be responsible."
The Yishun handphone reseller has six branches around Singapore. He said he gives the same advice to customers, especially teenagers.
When asked if he felt responsible for the telcos losing money over this (see other story), Mr Yeo said that ultimately, the telcos themselves must take responsibility and do their own due diligence.
Mr Yeo said he doesn't make enough to drive a flashy car.
He said: "I drive an ordinary Toyota and I live in a normal HDB flat. I'm just a simple man, got food to eat can already."
While he spoke openly about his business, he stopped short of letting us take his photograph.
He said: "If the telco recognises my face, then don't do my business how?"
His bottom line is - everyone needs to make a living.
Mr Yeo said: "My principle is, as long as my price is fair, everyone is willing, I'm not cheating anyone, it's okay. The rest, no need to say."
- additional reporting by Woo Sian Boon and Aretha Loh, newsroom interns
Lawyer: No crime is committed
WHILE these tactics by second-hand handphone shops maybe aggressive, they may have found a loophole.
Lawyer Leonard Loo said there is no crime committed as a result of their actions.
"As far as the law is concerned, as long as a good is exchanged, there is no offence committed," he said.
Lawyer Nicholas Aw agreed. "At the end of the day, it's the person who signs up for the line who is personally liable for costs incurred to the telco," he said.
All three telcos said they are aware of these tactics.Both SingTel and StarHub said they regularly train and remind their staff to look out for suspicious applicants. SingTel added that it keeps a record of such reported cases.
"The number of such reported cases is declining due to our strict control measures," said its spokesman.
None of the telcos would disclose figures on the number of subscribers with multiple contracts, or the amount lost to defaulters for mobile services.
"No significant impact"
But DBS Vickers analyst Sachin Mittal said such second-hand dealers are "not making a significant impact on telcos."
He said he has not seen an increase in bad debt provisions among the three telcos.
Bad debt provisions refers to the estimated amount of bad debt that the telco expects to incur. It does not represent the actual bad debt incurred.
M1's spokesman said the provisions for bad debts - mainly from non-paying customers - in FY 2009 was $4.3 million, representing just 0.5 per cent of its operating revenue.
That's compared to $16.9m in FY2008.
A StarHub spokesman said provision for bad debts across all its services, including broadband and cable TV, for FY2008 was $11.1 mil or 0.5 per cent of service revenue.
In comparison, provision for bad debts for the first nine months of 2009 was $10.2m or 0.7 per cent of service revenue.
It was unable to provide a breakdown of what percentage goes to non-paying mobile customers.
SingTel's spokesman said it does not disclose bad debt provision for the Singapore business.
This is bundled together under "selling & administrative" expenses, which includes marketing costs and handphone subsidies, and came up to $248m for the quarter ending 30 Sep last year.
"The amount of non-paying customers attributing to expenses is insignificant," said its spokesman.
All three telcos said they have in place measures to cope with late and non-payment of bills, which may include reminder letters, instalment plans, prohibiting subsequent application of services, and legal action.
This article was first published in The New Paper.
wah. good luck leh.
she run road u is hong gan loh.
and have to pay penalty if terminate
or help her pay until contract end
anyhow u are on the losing end
tell her to put 3k as deposit with u first (NOW!)
then u use the $ to pay the monthly subscription
when the amt is used up, she will give u lump sum again or do mthly fund transfer to u to pay the bill
and meanwhile u pray hard. really hard.
Thanks for the reply. I think my friend won't run my bill initially...
I signed for her 2 years ago. She upgraded my plan to $98 monthly to get the free phone. I didn't demand any money or take the phone from her because we're friends.
But throughout the 2 years, I got alot of reminder letter from Starhub, resulting in almost terminating the line if not paying soon. I have to call her up and urge her everytime to pay.. And there's once I have to pay $200+++ for her first, cause she didn't pay for 2 months, cause I'm renewing my internet with starhub.
Few months back I told her I would terminate the line (afraid anyting happen and is really relieve the 2 years is over)
However, she told me she have no one to help her to sign line, and I'm the only one who could help her. As her friend, I renew-ed it again after it's 24th months instead of 21st month (we could do early renewal at 21st, at no cost) because I was hesitating all the way.
Then I decided to take the phone I renew-ed it, because that would give me the assurance if she really run off, I have the phone to pay.
Now she tell me she don't want the line anymore, and I would have to fork out $98 monthly, because she said she's entitled to the phone and I just took it away....
wah. so fast hong gan liao.
she just want the fone and the max plan
u think she relli treat u as a friend ya?
After this case, I think I'm really a fool.... We quarrelled and she insisted she's right.
And even give excuses that she don't want to quarrel with me, she see I'm pregnant, so attitude will be abit jia lat... But the thing is not whether I'm pregnant or not. Be it or so, I will still get fed up with her...
Then post at FB , asking people if she's entitled to the phone, but all along never state that the line is not under her name -_-
Now I gonna pay $652 to downgrade the plan to $38 (not to my original 25++)
For someone who I thought is my friend..
no use crying over spilt milk
and no point posting this thread since it has already turned out this way
lesson learnt loh
this kind of frenship ��也罢
Thanks....
Ya I just wanna post and ask... to check that if I'm really wrong as what she said...
Because I know nothing much about helping people to sign, but I do remember someone told me I can actually charge my friend for a certain amount for giving her the line + phone...
But she say until, for the plan she signed ($98++), she is already paying for the phone she got free, why should she pay me?
Now she's not passing me any money but I gonna fork out $652 for a downgrade instead....
predicted in my first reply
no matter how many forums u go to post this, it is not gonna change the situation bcos if ur fwen chao kuan, there is nothing we all strangers can do
and lets not bring in the legal yada yada into this
just pay the penalty and delete her off ur contact list and from ur life