Clash over religion
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I have been going out with this girl for 5 months, but we haven't been able to progress our relationship due to religious issues.
You see, she hates my religion. I don't want to say anything about the religion except to say that it is definitely NOT islam.
I never ask her to change to my religion but it seems to separate us most of the time. She thinks I am very staunch in my religion because I attend classes, seminars, community work a lot but I am not staunch at all because I am a person with a lot of flaws, I do drink liquor, I do cross the red light, I sometimes accidentaly swear at people. In other words, I am imperfect and i don't go around judging other people.
Because I always talk religion with my social circles, I sometimes have the habit of accidentaly talking religion to her, and that makes her mad at me. When I accidentaly say it, she will go and boast her religion back at me and give me the quiet treatment.
I get the feeling that my religion is affecting her and not sure if she likes me enough to continue.
So what should I do? I had a heart to heart talk to her about religion and she frankly tell me that she thinks my religion is bias and not good. Ouch, but i just don't get it, why she takes offence at it when I never ask her to change to my religion. I was hoping that she allow me to freely practice my religion while she practice hers.
I really like her a lot.
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She cannot accept you for who you are. That's the problem with many ppl in relationships, and these ppl think they have the ability and right to change the other person. Everyone is unique. Ppl of such mentality should just go find a custom made robot and go into a relationship with it.
Do you want to change for her (in this case, you have to abandon your religion)? Only you can answer. But bear in mind, you will not be a happy person if you were to change cuz she wants you to change.
To change her? Not a good idea. If she, one day, decides not to think this way about your religion, good for you. Your relationship will go stronger. But this will really be up to her. You can't change her. YOu can't convince her. Only her mind and heart can do the work.
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Some 20 yrs back, I let go a good relationship due to religion too.
Remember at that time, I went through some difficult issues in life, and she took me to her religious place to seek blessing. I only know when I reached there, thus I kindly declined her offer.
Sometime later, I ask her what will our children's religion be, and she replied, half will follow me, half will follow her. With that, tears flow down my eyes. After much praying, within weeks, I broke off with her, both of us in tears.
Looking back, as much as I am sad to let her go, even as friends (we lost contact soon after), but I think I made a right choice. I am happily married with 2 kids now, and happily worshiping as family, and even praying together during hard time. If I have chosen her, that will not happen.
Sometime, you need to look forward, beyond your emotion.
Take care,
Boring Old Man.
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Originally posted by Honeybunz:
She cannot accept you for who you are. That's the problem with many ppl in relationships, and these ppl think they have the ability and right to change the other person. Everyone is unique. Ppl of such mentality should just go find a custom made robot and go into a relationship with it.
Do you want to change for her (in this case, you have to abandon your religion)? Only you can answer. But bear in mind, you will not be a happy person if you were to change cuz she wants you to change.
To change her? Not a good idea. If she, one day, decides not to think this way about your religion, good for you. Your relationship will go stronger. But this will really be up to her. You can't change her. YOu can't convince her. Only her mind and heart can do the work.
mmmm, how do you know you have accepted someone the way they are?
is it different from ignoring?
thanks
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Originally posted by Oldkamhouse:
I have been going out with this girl for 5 months, but we haven't been able to progress our relationship due to religious issues.
You see, she hates my religion. I don't want to say anything about the religion except to say that it is definitely NOT islam.
I never ask her to change to my religion but it seems to separate us most of the time. She thinks I am very staunch in my religion because I attend classes, seminars, community work a lot but I am not staunch at all because I am a person with a lot of flaws, I do drink liquor, I do cross the red light, I sometimes accidentaly swear at people. In other words, I am imperfect and i don't go around judging other people.
Because I always talk religion with my social circles, I sometimes have the habit of accidentaly talking religion to her, and that makes her mad at me. When I accidentaly say it, she will go and boast her religion back at me and give me the quiet treatment.
I get the feeling that my religion is affecting her and not sure if she likes me enough to continue.
So what should I do? I had a heart to heart talk to her about religion and she frankly tell me that she thinks my religion is bias and not good. Ouch, but i just don't get it, why she takes offence at it when I never ask her to change to my religion. I was hoping that she allow me to freely practice my religion while she practice hers.
I really like her a lot.
To summarise your post. She thinks you are staunch. But you admit you are not because you drink and curse. But you still talk about religion to her because you think she is one of your religious friends who do not know the real you.
Religious topics are very sensitive because it involves family roots. Religion and Race are always the barrier for relationships.
If you want this relationship to continue, be yourself and stop acting religious. You are embaressing your religion by not being able to stand up for it. You are also embaressing your whole family. Reason I say so is because if you are firmly grounded, you will be able to refute all allegations.
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whats your religion btw TS?
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Originally posted by Oldkamhouse:
I have been going out with this girl for 5 months, but we haven't been able to progress our relationship due to religious issues.
You see, she hates my religion. I don't want to say anything about the religion except to say that it is definitely NOT islam.
I never ask her to change to my religion but it seems to separate us most of the time. She thinks I am very staunch in my religion because I attend classes, seminars, community work a lot but I am not staunch at all because I am a person with a lot of flaws, I do drink liquor, I do cross the red light, I sometimes accidentaly swear at people. In other words, I am imperfect and i don't go around judging other people.
Because I always talk religion with my social circles, I sometimes have the habit of accidentaly talking religion to her, and that makes her mad at me. When I accidentaly say it, she will go and boast her religion back at me and give me the quiet treatment.
I get the feeling that my religion is affecting her and not sure if she likes me enough to continue.
So what should I do? I had a heart to heart talk to her about religion and she frankly tell me that she thinks my religion is bias and not good. Ouch, but i just don't get it, why she takes offence at it when I never ask her to change to my religion. I was hoping that she allow me to freely practice my religion while she practice hers.
I really like her a lot.
Religion is not merely about a faith belief; in fact, it encompass an entire framework of perspective, values, ideals, rules, norms, mores and outlook of life - which includes the way we view love and relationship specifically. For some, it is central to the motivation of their behavior and how they manage their interaction with others.
Love requires no religions for it is not a living entity, unlike a human being, tormented by the need for 'answers' to justify its very existence. Therefore, the suffering of having any forms of religious conflict stem from the couple and belongs entirely to themselves.
This is an important understanding because I will not attempt to reply your post from any faith-based perspective, but rather, reflect it as the choice you have made in name of love - since this choice is probably a succulent condition for such conflict to manifest in the future. You might have intense feelings for this girl; however, the inability of being able to accept each other in your own respective skin is likely to be the cause of your misery.
It is not about whose religion is more superior, but rather, not being able to gain mutual respect and understanding of each other's values naturally generate great challenges for your relationship. It is also a similar set of problem for other form of value-conflict, in which religious conflict belongs to one type of such dimension (I called them Jupiter affliction).
Therefore, what is ultimately more important to you? Being able to be a 'good member' of your chosen religion OR the love & belonging need you get from her companionship? Surely, that would give you some concrete insights on how you could proceed with your situation.
P.S: The point I am driving at is that there is no absolutely way you could continue a relationship like yours without bloodshed IF the both of you are not able to reconcile each other in your natural state. Perhaps deep in your respective subconsciousness, though you might claim there is none, there could be a quiet desire to convert the other, which is actually no difference from a romance-frenzied lover wanting to change her down-to-earth dude to become 'more romantic'.
Cheers -
Couples with same religion are happier because they can accompany each other during religious outings, shared same religious friends and practice same religious teachings. If different, then its a dead end relationship for both.
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Never let anyone change your religion because this life is short. How long can we live, the longest is slightly more than a hundred years and how many people can live till a hundred year old? Look beyond this life time. Never let religion gets in the way of your relationship. Relationship and religion should be separated. If the person let religion gets in the way of the relationship meaning that person does not love you enough.
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Originally posted by Mel.greywolf:
Some 20 yrs back, I let go a good relationship due to religion too.
Remember at that time, I went through some difficult issues in life, and she took me to her religious place to seek blessing. I only know when I reached there, thus I kindly declined her offer.
Sometime later, I ask her what will our children's religion be, and she replied, half will follow me, half will follow her. With that, tears flow down my eyes. After much praying, within weeks, I broke off with her, both of us in tears.
Looking back, as much as I am sad to let her go, even as friends (we lost contact soon after), but I think I made a right choice. I am happily married with 2 kids now, and happily worshiping as family, and even praying together during hard time. If I have chosen her, that will not happen.
Sometime, you need to look forward, beyond your emotion.
Take care,
Boring Old Man.
I wish it was this easy. People like her come once in a blue moon. In this modern society, we are all caught up in our jobs and competition for vanity, so we hardly got time to find soul mates out there.
I am in my late 30s, time is catching up.
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Originally posted by Yunhaier:
Religion is not merely about a faith belief; in fact, it encompass an entire framework of perspective, values, ideals, rules, norms, mores and outlook of life - which includes the way we view love and relationship specifically. For some, it is central to the motivation of their behavior and how they manage their interaction with others.
Love requires no religions for it is not a living entity, unlike a human being, tormented by the need for 'answers' to justify its very existence. Therefore, the suffering of having any forms of religious conflict stem from the couple and belongs entirely to themselves.
This is an important understanding because I will not attempt to reply your post from any faith-based perspective, but rather, reflect it as the choice you have made in name of love - since this choice is probably a succulent condition for such conflict to manifest in the future. You might have intense feelings for this girl; however, the inability of being able to accept each other in your own respective skin is likely to be the cause of your misery.
It is not about whose religion is more superior, but rather, not being able to gain mutual respect and understanding of each other's values naturally generate great challenges for your relationship. It is also a similar set of problem for other form of value-conflict, in which religious conflict belongs to one type of such dimension (I called them Jupiter affliction).
Therefore, what is ultimately more important to you? Being able to be a 'good member' of your chosen religion OR the love & belonging need you get from her companionship? Surely, that would give you some concrete insights on how you could proceed with your situation.
P.S: The point I am driving at is that there is no absolutely way you could continue a relationship like yours without bloodshed IF the both of you are not able to reconcile each other in your natural state. Perhaps deep in your respective subconsciousness, though you might claim there is none, there could be a quiet desire to convert the other, which is actually no difference from a romance-frenzied lover wanting to change her down-to-earth dude to become 'more romantic'.
CheersYes, I cannot just shut out religion and she cannot shut out her religion and we just go continue on like this without even considering the consequences.
Religion or my faith is more than just going to a building and making prayers, its my whole life.
If she is impartial then our relationship would be in harmony. However, she criticize my religion. WE spoke about tithes and offerings for my religion. I said it is necesary because my religion need the finances to pay for the community work, premises upkeep and salaries of full time workers. I say that my religion does not compulsorily require the 10% contribution, we only volunteer to contribute because in our religion, god loves a cheerful giver not want to force a reluctant giver to give donation.
She still not convince and she gave me the blackface because next time if we are a family, she doesn't want any of the money finances given to the church. So yes, the religious differences will inevitably disturb our relationship.
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Originally posted by Dawnfirstlight:
Never let anyone change your religion because this life is short. How long can we live, the longest is slightly more than a hundred years and how many people can live till a hundred year old? Look beyond this life time. Never let religion gets in the way of your relationship. Relationship and religion should be separated. If the person let religion gets in the way of the relationship meaning that person does not love you enough.
I agree, except the religion with the star surrounded by a circle, that is a satanic religion. -
Originally posted by mr music:
Couples with same religion are happier because they can accompany each other during religious outings, shared same religious friends and practice same religious teachings. If different, then its a dead end relationship for both.
Spot on.
This is precisely what i am thinking. Couples do things together. If I end up going alone to religious outings, I would feel awkward.
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Originally posted by Oldkamhouse:
Yes, I cannot just shut out religion and she cannot shut out her religion and we just go continue on like this without even considering the consequences.
Religion or my faith is more than just going to a building and making prayers, its my whole life.
If she is impartial then our relationship would be in harmony. However, she criticize my religion. WE spoke about tithes and offerings for my religion. I said it is necesary because my religion need the finances to pay for the community work, premises upkeep and salaries of full time workers. I say that my religion does not compulsorily require the 10% contribution, we only volunteer to contribute because in our religion, god loves a cheerful giver not want to force a reluctant giver to give donation.
She still not convince and she gave me the blackface because next time if we are a family, she doesn't want any of the money finances given to the church. So yes, the religious differences will inevitably disturb our relationship.
It's a painful revelation when we are coerced to conclude that we cannot achieve the best of both worlds at our current state. Much as we would like to see it happening in our real world, perhaps the nature of our choice does not allow smooth harmonious blending of these different pictures into a beautiful symphony. Sometimes, some pictures are mutually exclusive and cannot co-exist simultaneously. At the age of being in your late 30s, it is natural to see how the developmental stage of needing to settle down and the importance of a stable relationship are important for you personally. Then again, sometimes, it may not be how much understanding she knows about your religion to accept you, but the key question lies whether are you able to accept the possibility that she might not be able to accept your religion and some of these values that you have already explained so patiently? Are you able to reconcile with yourself that by making the choice to remain in the relationship, there is a possibility that you might have to live with the struggle of having to making difficult choices between being a good Christian and the image of a good boyfriend?
Just a small disclaimer: I am not saying a good boyfriend means having to give up your love for God - what I am trying to say is that both pictures in your quality world are important to you because they obviously satisfy certain personal/spiritual needs - the thoughts of having make choices between them can be pure excruciating.
If being a good Christian (in which I am referring to your regular financial support, community involvement and other personal effort) is something that is non-negotiable for you, then naturally this relationship would become an expendable option.
P.S: The sphere of religious influence can be very powerful. However, do note that ultimately, you would have to make a committed choice and decide what you want and what is important to you. Just remember at the end of the day, nobody is going to live with the prospect of being single and its associated feelings (e.g. loneliness) or the fear in spiritual punishment/deprivation of spiritual reward other than yourself.
Cheers
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Originally posted by Yunhaier: It's a painful revelation when we are coerced to conclude that we cannot achieve the best of both worlds at our current state. Much as we would like to see it happening in our real world, perhaps the nature of our choice does not allow smooth harmonious blending of these different pictures into a beautiful symphony. Sometimes, some pictures are mutually exclusive and cannot co-exist simultaneously.
At the age of being in your late 30s, it is natural to see how the developmental stage of needing to settle down and the importance of a stable relationship are important for you personally. Then again, sometimes, it may not be how much understanding she knows about your religion to accept you, but the key question lies whether are you able to accept the possibility that she might not be able to accept your religion and some of these values that you have already explained so patiently? Are you able to reconcile with yourself that by making the choice to remain in the relationship, there is a possibility that you might have to live with the struggle of having to making difficult choices between being a good Christian and the image of a good boyfriend?
Just a small disclaimer: I am not saying a good boyfriend means having to give up your love for God - what I am trying to say is that both pictures in your quality world are important to you because they obviously satisfy certain personal/spiritual needs - the thoughts of having make choices between them can be pure excruciating.
If being a good Christian (in which I am referring to your regular financial support, community involvement and other personal effort) is something that is non-negotiable for you, then naturally this relationship would become an expendable option.
P.S: The sphere of religious influence can be very powerful. However, do note that ultimately, you would have to make a committed choice and decide what you want and what is important to you. Just remember at the end of the day, nobody is going to live with the prospect of being single and its associated feelings (e.g. loneliness) or the fear in spiritual punishment/deprivation of spiritual reward other than yourself.
Cheers
Yes spot on about values. Her values and my values are very different. You see, when I ask my friends who are not of my religious affiliation, they don't seem to understand, they just say, go for it, for the sake of love. For me, its a clash of enormous differences. Worldly sense, we both may click well, we both like statistics and talk about politics but in the value sense we differ far apart. My religion teaches me not to love the things of the world of materialism, to seek the eternal spiritual gifts. Her religion teaches her that doing good all the time is the key and making lots of money is good. My religion teaches me that doing good all the time, won't save us because it is impossible to reconcile ourselves to god because we as mere human beings have neither the capacity to impress god but the only way is thru the god's appointed saviour. Her religion despise my religion because they think my religion is arrogant and hipocrite. While my religion is free for everybody, everybody has free will so as long they do it out of love and obedience to god.
I foresee, if i were to continue this relationship, it is going to explode into enormous argument, very unpleasant. And if I were to move from the dating stage into relationship, if it doesn't work out, i be sucked into the emotional pain of break-up. And likely to hurt her feelings too, not to mention, strengthen her hatred for people who follow my religion.
I am in a huge dilemna. There are not a lot of people follow my religion so it is hard for me to find a soul mate there. At my religious place, always mismatch, no ladies there are compatible. On the other hand, on teh scene of people not affiliated with my religion, I find a lot of ladies have commonality with me. Unfortunately we clash in terms of religion.
Its really hard to find somebody like her. But she goes to her religion and chant prayers which hurt me spiritually, everytime she says that. My religion is very spiritual and her continuation in dwelling in her religion with all those chanting, affects me deeply because she is somebody i try to foresee as my future wife.
It is very difficult for both of us, time and time, almost we almost held hands, but we both balk back, because of hesitation. We foresee a very uncertain future.
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the way u talk about your religion, i have a feel what your religion is eh..
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Why dnt u change??
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Originally posted by Oldkamhouse:
Yes spot on about values. Her values and my values are very different. You see, when I ask my friends who are not of my religious affiliation, they don't seem to understand, they just say, go for it, for the sake of love. For me, its a clash of enormous differences. Worldly sense, we both may click well, we both like statistics and talk about politics but in the value sense we differ far apart. My religion teaches me not to love the things of the world of materialism, to seek the eternal spiritual gifts. Her religion teaches her that doing good all the time is the key and making lots of money is good. My religion teaches me that doing good all the time, won't save us because it is impossible to reconcile ourselves to god because we as mere human beings have neither the capacity to impress god but the only way is thru the god's appointed saviour. Her religion despise my religion because they think my religion is arrogant and hipocrite. While my religion is free for everybody, everybody has free will so as long they do it out of love and obedience to god.
I foresee, if i were to continue this relationship, it is going to explode into enormous argument, very unpleasant. And if I were to move from the dating stage into relationship, if it doesn't work out, i be sucked into the emotional pain of break-up. And likely to hurt her feelings too, not to mention, strengthen her hatred for people who follow my religion.
I am in a huge dilemna. There are not a lot of people follow my religion so it is hard for me to find a soul mate there. At my religious place, always mismatch, no ladies there are compatible. On the other hand, on teh scene of people not affiliated with my religion, I find a lot of ladies have commonality with me. Unfortunately we clash in terms of religion.
Its really hard to find somebody like her. But she goes to her religion and chant prayers which hurt me spiritually, everytime she says that. My religion is very spiritual and her continuation in dwelling in her religion with all those chanting, affects me deeply because she is somebody i try to foresee as my future wife.
It is very difficult for both of us, time and time, almost we almost held hands, but we both balk back, because of hesitation. We foresee a very uncertain future.
I believe you have answered your own question./me pat pat
Cheers
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Originally posted by Yunhaier: I believe you have answered your own
question.
/me pat pat
Cheers
u are still around!!!! -
Originally posted by anfuni:
u are still around!!!!The only person still around here and is more lao jiao than me is FireIce. ROFLMAO!
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Originally posted by Mel.greywolf:
Some 20 yrs back, I let go a good relationship due to religion too.
Remember at that time, I went through some difficult issues in life, and she took me to her religious place to seek blessing. I only know when I reached there, thus I kindly declined her offer.
Sometime later, I ask her what will our children's religion be, and she replied, half will follow me, half will follow her. With that, tears flow down my eyes. After much praying, within weeks, I broke off with her, both of us in tears.
Looking back, as much as I am sad to let her go, even as friends (we lost contact soon after), but I think I made a right choice. I am happily married with 2 kids now, and happily worshiping as family, and even praying together during hard time. If I have chosen her, that will not happen.
Sometime, you need to look forward, beyond your emotion.
Take care,
Boring Old Man.
A good piece of advice. Me like! -
Originally posted by Mel.greywolf:
Some 20 yrs back, I let go a good relationship due to religion too.
Remember at that time, I went through some difficult issues in life, and she took me to her religious place to seek blessing. I only know when I reached there, thus I kindly declined her offer.
Sometime later, I ask her what will our children's religion be, and she replied, half will follow me, half will follow her. With that, tears flow down my eyes. After much praying, within weeks, I broke off with her, both of us in tears.
Looking back, as much as I am sad to let her go, even as friends (we lost contact soon after), but I think I made a right choice. I am happily married with 2 kids now, and happily worshiping as family, and even praying together during hard time. If I have chosen her, that will not happen.
Sometime, you need to look forward, beyond your emotion.
Take care,
Boring Old Man.
Wow! uncle, 20 years ago, i just 3 years old, omg, talking about history again
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Originally posted by Yunhaier:
The only person still around here and is more lao jiao than me is FireIce. ROFLMAO!
My Queen got jiao? OMG, guess you are blind, there are many posters here who are much lao and jiao...they rather be posters than be mods -
Originally posted by Oldkamhouse:
Yes, I cannot just shut out religion and she cannot shut out her religion and we just go continue on like this without even considering the consequences.
Religion or my faith is more than just going to a building and making prayers, its my whole life.
If she is impartial then our relationship would be in harmony. However, she criticize my religion. WE spoke about tithes and offerings for my religion. I said it is necesary because my religion need the finances to pay for the community work, premises upkeep and salaries of full time workers. I say that my religion does not compulsorily require the 10% contribution, we only volunteer to contribute because in our religion, god loves a cheerful giver not want to force a reluctant giver to give donation.
She still not convince and she gave me the blackface because next time if we are a family, she doesn't want any of the money finances given to the church. So yes, the religious differences will inevitably disturb our relationship.
You so old already, still cannot see thru in life huh? Just follow your heart lah.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Wow! uncle, 20 years ago, i just 3 years old, omg, talking about history again
issit? i remember where i was 20 years ago ... yep time flies.