A few questions about policies of Foreign Talent
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Good morning, everyone. My name's Justin and I'm 17years old.
Anyways, I've spent my entire life oblivious to how Singapore functions and I recently got a little interested after listening to the woes of an.. acquaintance..
Some time ago, about half of the "off-days" were taken away for government companies so that they could be more like private companies.
Why would the government do that?
Who would want to work for the government if it was just like normal companies?
Also, I heard that locals got compensated for the lost days of leave; however, workers on international contracts did not.
Is that not unfair?
Also, the people on international contracts tend to have family overseas and they use their off-days to visit them.
This makes their off-days more valuable, does it not?
Time spend with family is more important than money and to not get either the time or monetary compensation is just cruel in my opinion.
So, it's like we're making these people work extra without paying them.
Another bunch of questions:
My acquaintance recently became a father and had to go on leave to handle some affairs (Getting a visa for the baby, passport, etc.); he only got 3days.
That was barely enough time to get everything in order and he didn't have time to be a good husband or father. (You get, like, 6weeks in the UK)
May I ask why workers on international contracts seem to be over-worked?
These questions may seem trivial but I've never been involved or had an interest in the policies of Singapore but it's been affecting my acquaintance badly enough that he's telling a 17year old about it. I want to understand so that I can at least not feel oblivious AND helpless at the same time.
So..
Could someone explain Singapore's policies on these issues?-Justin
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Originally posted by JustinAHS:
Good morning, everyone. My name's Justin and I'm 17years old.
Anyways, I've spent my entire life oblivious to how Singapore functions and I recently got a little interested after listening to the woes of an.. acquaintance..
Some time ago, about half of the "off-days" were taken away for government companies so that they could be more like private companies.
Why would the government do that?
Who would want to work for the government if it was just like normal companies?
Also, I heard that locals got compensated for the lost days of leave; however, workers on international contracts did not.
Is that not unfair?
Also, the people on international contracts tend to have family overseas and they use their off-days to visit them.
This makes their off-days more valuable, does it not?
Time spend with family is more important than money and to not get either the time or monetary compensation is just cruel in my opinion.
So, it's like we're making these people work extra without paying them.
Another bunch of questions:
My acquaintance recently became a father and had to go on leave to handle some affairs (Getting a visa for the baby, passport, etc.); he only got 3days.
That was barely enough time to get everything in order and he didn't have time to be a good husband or father. (You get, like, 6weeks in the UK)
May I ask why workers on international contracts seem to be over-worked?
These questions may seem trivial but I've never been involved or had an interest in the policies of Singapore but it's been affecting my acquaintance badly enough that he's telling a 17year old about it. I want to understand so that I can at least not feel oblivious AND helpless at the same time.
So..
Could someone explain Singapore's policies on these issues?-Justin
Justin,
for anybody to understand your questions, you need to first let us know if your friend is a Singaporean, on contract working overseas, or an FT, on contract working here?
Secondly, who are the employers, the Singapore government, SME, MNC? What kind of contract is he having with his company? Not all contracts governed by labour laws in Singapore, and there is no Singapore policies for ALL organization, especially one that help anybody to work less and pay more! even for employment of maids, there are different starting salaries, day offs....
Whatever the situation, your acquiantance, if he were an FT, should have checked before coming here, or may be he thought Singapore is still a UK colony, should offer 6 weeks patenity leave? The best person who can help him is his PR manager.
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Justin - there are alway 2 side of a coin. You just been presented one side.
On government companies - a lot of them pay better and even have bonus - compare to outside companies.
Expats and " international contracts" are pay a lot much better then local - if you want to bark like a dog on little things like day off ... fxxk off - they can bloody well go home !!! no one force them to sign the contracts. Use your brain and think why they come here in the first place - $$$ of course.Your acquaintance didn't have time to be a good husband or father - it is his choice !!! He can pack up and go home and be a good husband and father not like we singapore kidnapped him and force him to work here as slave !!!
Look at a local worker - he work as hard as your acquaintance and same long hours. he also will not have time to be a good husband or father and will be a poor father while your acquaintance will be at least a rich father. -
As a foreigner coming here to work he would or should have scrutinised the contract throughly before signing. And as a foreigner he would also have negotiated hard the terms and conditions.
Therefore he should not complain if he is not getting benefits that are not in there, but is in UK.
Everyone has problems with getting off from work and attending to famiily and personal matters, even Singaporeans. Not every situation can be covered by the T&C.
You mention "why the company" this is rather impersonal. Although the company is an legal entity, it is not a person. Matters regarding special arrangements is best discussed with people in the company. People in the company are normal people like you and me. Things can be sorted out. Privately griping about unfair situation to colleagues will not bring about a solution.
Its a solution that is wanted, not an airing of grivences.
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At least your acquaintance is paid well for "overworking". Those Asians who "overwork" washing dishes in the back allys of restaurants in uk don't even get a decent time off, much less to be a good father. Fts everywhere around the world made their choices to work overseas for more money. They should know what they are getting themselves into, so quit bitching.
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IMHO after having worked in many places,working in SG is woring in China/India but about 200% better(Pay+ Life balance). Working in US is about 200% better than SG(Pay/Life is not so good). Working in EU(good company and good contract) is about 300% better(less pay but a good life balance).
Of course an expatriate/Intl. contract kicks ass.
My 0.02.
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Why would the government do that?
Check with the Government.Who would want to work for the government if it was just like normal companies?
Plenty will.Is that not unfair?
Leave if unfair.This makes their off-days more valuable, does it not?
This is personal.Time spend with family is more important than money and to not get either the time or monetary compensation is just cruel in my opinion.
What about those Asian working in UK ?So, it's like we're making these people work extra without paying them.
Leave if unfair. Did they understand the contract before they sign ?That was barely enough time to get everything in order and he didn't have time to be a good husband or father. (You get, like, 6weeks in the UK)
Like NewAgeSensitiveBoy said, "Those Asians who “overwork” washing dishes in the back allys of restaurants in uk don’t even get a decent time off, much less to be a good father."May I ask why workers on international contracts seem to be over-worked?
Why use the word "seem" ?.... AND helpless at the same time.
Why would a 17 yr old boy be helpless in such issue ?Could someone explain Singapore's policies on these issues?
Why Singapore when it is a person vs company ?
Foreign Talent ?
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Expats and " international contracts" are pay a lot much better then local - if you want to bark like a dog on little things like day off ... fxxk off - they can bloody well go home !!! no one force them to sign the contracts. Use your brain and think why they come here in the first place - $$$ of course.@sgdiehard
He's a foreigner working in Singapore with an international contract and he works as a lecturer.
I'm not sure about what his contract said about paternity leave, though.
I'll check with him, thanks.
@storywolf
Yes, I do realize that I've only been shown one side of the coin which is why I decided to ask here; so that the more enlightened ones could provide insight.Also, I feel that your version of an 'open-door' policy (The door is open; leave if you want) is inhumane. Yes, he *could* leave if he was unhappy but you have to understand that circumstances don't always allow it. I mean, they're working for you; you should at least care about them.
I wouldn't know the details about his pay as I've never personally asked but I'm pretty sure all lecturers are paid handsomely.
@mancha
Yes.. He should have and he may or may not have done that but the thing is, the sudden cut in days of leave was unfair in my opinion. I know that this does not only affect him. Does anyone recall when such 'cuts' were issued and the general reaction to it?
Like a date or article? I can't seem to find it."Everyone has problems with getting off from work and attending to famiily and personal matters, even Singaporeans. Not every situation can be covered by the T&C."
Yes.. You are quite right. I guess he merely feels more stressed than usual (Still the first few weeks of birth)
I guess I just want to know 'why' they chose certain ways to run things.
I'm not even sure who 'they' is, I guess it's the government for the sudden cuts in days of leave and the company for the paternity leave; I don't know."Matters regarding special arrangements is best discussed with people in the company. People in the company are normal people like you and me. Things can be sorted out. Privately griping about unfair situation to colleagues will not bring about a solution.
Its a solution that is wanted, not an airing of grivences."
Hmm, Thanks for the info.
I'll try asking if he's already done that.@NewAgeSensitiveBoy
And those people wash dishes because they're too young for other kinds of work or not skilled enough (or a host of other unfortunate circumstances).
It is only natural for a person to want to be cared for.
This is not 'bitching', he merely told me about what's been stressing him and I, as a curious individual, decided to poke around and figure out why the current system works this way; I just want to know the reasons behind the choices.
@Punggol
"This is personal"
Yes, I understand that but it occurred to me that he isn't the only foreigner that would have this problem.
And policies should be based on what.. "satisfies" the employers and employees.. Right?
Less time to meet with families and relatives seems like a major source of disatisfaction to me.
"What about those Asian working in UK ?"
I wouldn't know. I've never heard about the situation for Asians working in the UK.
But it shouldn't affect how Singapore runs things.
(Tit-for-tat?)
I say 'seem' because I've only heard one side of the story.
It may be that everyone else feels overjoyed with the uncompensated off-days and the lack of paternity leave and that my acquaintance is the only crodgity old man who's affected.
Helpless because I can't magically make his problems disappear but I can at least understand what's going on.
And I said 'Singapore' because I was told it was the government's idea to cut off-days and have few days for paternity leave.
My ignorance may have made getting my message across, I'm sorry =/ -
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SG used to be a good place to work for locals and the Foreigners. Once they opened the gates for foreigners it's simply destroyed. They should have allowed only immigrants with very high income or those who studied in SG to remain there.I know many escorts who are PR under Talent section.
When I was in SG a few years ago I saw people struggling to get into bus/MRT more like animals brought for slaughter and I couldn't take it any more and left.
Moral of story its a sunk ship. The Govt doesn't care about their own people IMHO. If you have a very good contract may be it's worth it. Normally the companies has only 15 days holidays and if you are sick you need to see a Doc before 10AM and inform the company etc. Very barbaric.
My 0.02
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Your acquaintance was only trying to let go his grievance. Some grievance may not due to policy but their own family or social circle. Some is trying to create disunity and chaos in you as a young punk. You need not have to bother about this issue as a 17 years old child. An alternative is that your can look for MP of both political parties for favourable feedback. Thereafer, exercise your voting right with honour without fear and favour.
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To : JustinAHS
You wrote : "That was barely enough time to get everything in order and he didn't have time to be a good husband or father. (You get, like, 6weeks in the UK)"
It is therefore I wrote, "What about those Asian working in UK ?" Compare with UK, we shall talk about UK.
Why should you be concern about his problem ? He is a lecturer, an old man, like you say.
These are the type of people that condemn their own country. Go to one places, unhappy and condemn about that place. Move on to another country.
Plenty of such people in Sg nowaday.
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Originally posted by Whimsy:
Your acquaintance was only trying to let go his grievance. Some grievance may not due to policy but their own family or social circle. Some is trying to create disunity and chaos in you as a young punk. You need not have to bother about this issue as a 17 years old child. An alternative is that your can look for MP of both political parties for favourable feedback. Thereafer, exercise your voting right with honour without fear and favour.
He is only 17 !!! can vote?
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Originally posted by JustinAHS:
Expats and " international contracts" are pay a lot much better then local - if you want to bark like a dog on little things like day off ... fxxk off - they can bloody well go home !!! no one force them to sign the contracts. Use your brain and think why they come here in the first place - $$$ of course.@sgdiehard
He's a foreigner working in Singapore with an international contract and he works as a lecturer.
I'm not sure about what his contract said about paternity leave, though.
I'll check with him, thanks.
@storywolf
Yes, I do realize that I've only been shown one side of the coin which is why I decided to ask here; so that the more enlightened ones could provide insight.Also, I feel that your version of an 'open-door' policy (The door is open; leave if you want) is inhumane. Yes, he *could* leave if he was unhappy but you have to understand that circumstances don't always allow it. I mean, they're working for you; you should at least care about them.
I wouldn't know the details about his pay as I've never personally asked but I'm pretty sure all lecturers are paid handsomely.
@mancha
Yes.. He should have and he may or may not have done that but the thing is, the sudden cut in days of leave was unfair in my opinion. I know that this does not only affect him. Does anyone recall when such 'cuts' were issued and the general reaction to it?
Like a date or article? I can't seem to find it."Everyone has problems with getting off from work and attending to famiily and personal matters, even Singaporeans. Not every situation can be covered by the T&C."
Yes.. You are quite right. I guess he merely feels more stressed than usual (Still the first few weeks of birth)
I guess I just want to know 'why' they chose certain ways to run things.
I'm not even sure who 'they' is, I guess it's the government for the sudden cuts in days of leave and the company for the paternity leave; I don't know."Matters regarding special arrangements is best discussed with people in the company. People in the company are normal people like you and me. Things can be sorted out. Privately griping about unfair situation to colleagues will not bring about a solution.
Its a solution that is wanted, not an airing of grivences."
Hmm, Thanks for the info.
I'll try asking if he's already done that.@NewAgeSensitiveBoy
And those people wash dishes because they're too young for other kinds of work or not skilled enough (or a host of other unfortunate circumstances).
It is only natural for a person to want to be cared for.
This is not 'bitching', he merely told me about what's been stressing him and I, as a curious individual, decided to poke around and figure out why the current system works this way; I just want to know the reasons behind the choices.
@Punggol
"This is personal"
Yes, I understand that but it occurred to me that he isn't the only foreigner that would have this problem.
And policies should be based on what.. "satisfies" the employers and employees.. Right?
Less time to meet with families and relatives seems like a major source of disatisfaction to me.
"What about those Asian working in UK ?"
I wouldn't know. I've never heard about the situation for Asians working in the UK.
But it shouldn't affect how Singapore runs things.
(Tit-for-tat?)
I say 'seem' because I've only heard one side of the story.
It may be that everyone else feels overjoyed with the uncompensated off-days and the lack of paternity leave and that my acquaintance is the only crodgity old man who's affected.
Helpless because I can't magically make his problems disappear but I can at least understand what's going on.
And I said 'Singapore' because I was told it was the government's idea to cut off-days and have few days for paternity leave.
My ignorance may have made getting my message across, I'm sorry =/ -
Justin,
you are not sure how things are run but you "guess it's the government for the sudden cuts in days of leave and the company for the paternity leave" ----- Wrong. How many days off for your paternity leave varies from company to company, you can also get day off if your boss is generous. Lecturers are quite sinnang during school holidays, but during school terms, when you go on leave than somebody will have to take your class, fair or not???
"And policies should be based on what.. "satisfies" the employers and employees.. Right?------Wrong. Policies are made by the company to protect the employers first!
you talk about 'open door' policy and " I mean, they're working for you; you should at least care about them." ------ Wrong, they work for the company, not for me or Singapore.
It is his choice to come, he made his commitment by accepting the contract, and is paid handsomely, now he is bound by what he agreed and signed. So he just can't walk away? Right, nothing inhumane about.
For a lecturer to mourn to you, a 17 year old, about his paternity leave, ....hmmmm...something not very right. your acquantance from where? Philippines, China or India???
you can be ignorant, but don't be naive.
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If you are Justin beiber or timberlake, I guess no problem, you sure to get good employment benefits, but unfortunate you are not, you are just a 17 yo Justin dunno who the shit is...
Anyway, under contractual employment, if you had agreed and sign on the rules and regulations, the benefits, the entitements and of cos the pay. YOU SIGN WITH YOUR EYES OPEN. The employment Act of singapore do cover the minimium requirement, most companies will provide much better than the employment Act inorder to attract peoples/talents or peoples like your frens. If the contract goes below the employment Act, you can sue the company. Period
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if a PRC renovation worker can be paid 4k a month...there are lots of locals not making that dough even with hard work...
demand and supply aside, where is the Singapore First?
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Singapore first notion has to be clarify here, many think that singapore first mean singaporean only, it is not the case, and there is no still no laws to stipulate any action you can take if an employer, given the same qualification and skill, employed the foreigner instead of the Singaporean, what can the singaporeans, go home suck thumb lor. Because, let me tell you, Singaporeans first is only a notion, another propaganda theme to make you feel so homely and reassured, there is no way they are going to gain vote without some nice theme, but let see for yourself, 4 years from now, is it true that Singaporeans first or foreigners first.
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In another, Singaporeans are being conned again, as simple as that...3 months after th election, did u see any changes on the street, or any specific strong new laws to govern what was said and walked on it??
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Originally posted by angel7030:
In another, Singaporeans are being conned again, as simple as that...3 months after th election, did u see any changes on the street, or any specific strong new laws to govern what was said and walked on it??
Of course sweetheart, welcome to the political re-assurances for elections. -
Originally posted by Fcukpap:
if a PRC renovation worker can be paid 4k a month...there are lots of locals not making that dough even with hard work...
demand and supply aside, where is the Singapore First?
And you are telling me for the same job a local would be paid less than a foreigner? No way! -
In term of net wages, yes, a local can get less, cos employer are wary of his CPF contribution, given a foreign taking 1.8k and a singapore taking 2.0k, the take home for foreigner is 1.8k and the singaporeans is abt 1.6k, so you think who earn real wages more???
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Originally posted by angel7030:
In term of net wages, yes, a local can get less, cos employer are wary of his CPF contribution, given a foreign taking 1.8k and a singapore taking 2.0k, the take home for foreigner is 1.8k and the singaporeans is abt 1.6k, so you think who earn real wages more???
And why do you not add CPF to income which you will get with taxes after a while? Plus I heard from some foreigners they need to pay for levy(or somethig similar) amounting to 300-600 per month. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
In term of net wages, yes, a local can get less, cos employer are wary of his CPF contribution, given a foreign taking 1.8k and a singapore taking 2.0k, the take home for foreigner is 1.8k and the singaporeans is abt 1.6k, so you think who earn real wages more???
For local workers, the concern is CPF contribution, pregnancy (4 months' maternity leave), NS (reservist, IPPT, RT), higher expected salary, greater turnover when times are good
For foreigners, the concerns are housing allowance, foreign worker levy.
(For maids there are other concerns such as pregnancy, maid absconding etc but those do not apply to other foreign workers).
How will the employer decide? How will you decide if you were the employer?
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Originally posted by Bio-Hawk:
And why do you not add CPF to income which you will get with taxes after a while? Plus I heard from some foreigners they need to pay for levy(or somethig similar) amounting to 300-600 per month.because you do not get it all after a while, they give it out like rations each month after you are damn old.