Talking Point:
What has 'meritocracy' done to Singapore's education since it allows elitism; resentment; to breed? In fact, it hampers social cohesiveness as it widens our social gap.
If you recall what happened in early 2008 when a principal of a well-known school lashed hurtful, even discouraging comments at a corhort of Secondary 5 students, disappointment were aired all over the place and the media even ran a decently negative story on the fact of life of most Sec 5 students upon graduation.
That same year and time, I was abroad completing my undergraduate studies when my schoolmate had requested me to run an internal story in my University's papers on this issue. Honest, I had long forgotten and wanted to forget what the Singapore education was like despite having been trapped in it for 12+ years, and instatenously I was forced to re-accept, re-knidle and remember the hurtful phase I've been through. All because I had taken that route.
While all these has come to past, I would never forget the treatment I recieved both from my relatives, teachers and schoolmates; a bitter taste of life. I hereby warrant for reformative push in Singapore's General Education system as it does not serve its main purpose of strengthening social cohesiveness and providing a platform to educate Singaporeans in a manner that would empower them to become creative thinkers, opinionated individuals and enterprizing business owners who are keen on enhancing the quality of life and social integration.
What the Education System does is widen social gaps starting with individual streaming, grouping of elites and later labelling individuals with hurtful, risid comments that is sin in unfortunately, Christ's eye.
Sadly, the current system is only aimed at creating a wealth of technicians able to work but not think like Bill Gates; Steve Jobs; Mark Wilson - even David Copperfield, rather people apt at monotonous reading than intelligent and critical thinking. Very unlike the Australian education system; International school system whereby youths, to be precise - teenagers, are allowed to explore their interests and strengths first before commiting themselves to their respective field of study. And whether is it a hands-on technical course or pure academia, they excel in it.
Today, our system has come to a point whereby a youth with a decent 'C6' gets to enter an Engineering course in a polytechnic; less-than-average grades to seek solace in NUS and NTU's Engineering faculty, are we going to pay homage to the 1970s Hotel New World crash? When ironically popular skills course like Mass Communications requires you to score at least a B3 to be considered entry with a need to pass math (when its not a requirement in the practical world of comms)? Think people, think - is this proper and can be accepted? Can Singapore afford to have nuclear scientists; nuclear technicians with a borderline pass in Math - disturbing and frightening, right? Engineering should not be viewed as a dumping ground because lives are at stake.
As for myself, the path I've been through failed to take me on a route to becoming a doctor but a lifestyle writer, while majority of my classmates - sadly, 90% - became salesgirls and young mothers, with the youngest bearing a child before recieving the key to adulthood. Is this the path most Normal students need to take as a price for neglecting their primary 6 examinations? I personally believe that youths could have a brighter future if offered an equal-education opportunity to discover their interests and strengths prior to commiting to a specialized course of study.
In conclusion, I've this to say:12 is too tender a age to have your path cut out for you by the system which has to change. For your future and your child's, think now or never.
JM2C, WH. Whether you like it or not, its just mu two cents, my voice and my words.
P.S. Here's a link to an expired topic that's been debated before: http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/298141?page=4
tis is getting too much
so you mean e later developers dun deserve a chance at all in this society?
So I'm questioning abt your term of meritocracy
That is why there's need to reform this whole education system to allow people to achieve their goals, whether you are a late developer or not.
Originally posted by WeiHui:That is why there's need to reform this whole education system to allow people to achieve their goals, whether you are a late developer or not.
now
then why do you have to highlight something abt e C6 thing?
I bet to think in time to come, ppl will e skills could even edge out ppl w/ proper qualifications simply because they're e actual problem solvers.
I wish to share my opinion on this subject.
Education in Singapore, to me, is solely based on individual's memory skills. The results that you have for your English, maths, science, derives from your ability to memorise formulaes, verbs, terms and definition. Those who wishes to excel works hard to memorise the things that are taught.
It is a perfect system based on meritocracy. Where those who works hard gets the results that they deserved, nothing wrong there. That leaves people who are not so hardworking, fall to being the 'reserves'.
It is not a perfect system if you based it on the capability of each students expressing their creativity. We are punished when we make mistakes, we are taught to follow the rules and stick to the system. Everything is systematically crafted out for us, and we follow them at the risk of limiting our creativity.
If a country were to produce top notch employees, let me present to you, Singapore. We, as employees, as followers of the education system are trained to follow rules and compete with each other with a meritocracy mindset. We will never fail you because we are taught, "We should study hard so that we can have a good job to support ourselves."
You may fall into one of the categories of being a "reserve". Are you going to blame the Singapore education, or make a decision to craft out your own path?
My point is, instead of making resentments on the Singapore Education system, make amendments to your own life instead. As human beings, we have the freedom of choice. Your parents and school teachers may ask you to study hard and get a good job. The good news is, you have the freedom of choice to do otherwise.
Or maybe you are afraid to get out of your comfort zone? Again, stop blaming the Government for doing a bad job designing a lousy education system. No one is accountable for your life except yourself.
You make the change.
now it's worst, it exposes that our education system is purely based on memory work to excel (from e statement).
I think if it depends on memory work to survive, creativity is not present. That's why Singapore can never be like Sweden for example into producing good engineers.
Any case, the system here isn't anywhere better. Seriously, those poor in Maths & O levels combo are made to take Engineering in poly. If they ever made it to local uni, Maths would become the biggest problem as possibly many does not have A Maths background.
Education is more of providing the basic to everyone regardless of your results and not making the kids suffer later on for not even inparting them e skills.
Originally posted by Great Heavens!:I wish to share my opinion on this subject.
Education in Singapore, to me, is solely based on individual's memory skills. The results that you have for your English, maths, science, derives from your ability to memorise formulaes, verbs, terms and definition. Those who wishes to excel works hard to memorise the things that are taught.
It is a perfect system based on meritocracy. Where those who works hard gets the results that they deserved, nothing wrong there. That leaves people who are not so hardworking, fall to being the 'reserves'.
It is not a perfect system if you based it on the capability of each students expressing their creativity. We are punished when we make mistakes, we are taught to follow the rules and stick to the system. Everything is systematically crafted out for us, and we follow them at the risk of limiting our creativity.
If a country were to produce top notch employees, let me present to you, Singapore. We, as employees, as followers of the education system are trained to follow rules and compete with each other with a meritocracy mindset. We will never fail you because we are taught, "We should study hard so that we can have a good job to support ourselves."
You may fall into one of the categories of being a "reserve". Are you going to blame the Singapore education, or make a decision to craft out your own path?
My point is, instead of making resentments on the Singapore Education system, make amendments to your own life instead. As human beings, we have the freedom of choice. Your parents and school teachers may ask you to study hard and get a good job. The good news is, you have the freedom of choice to do otherwise.
Or maybe you are afraid to get out of your comfort zone? Again, stop blaming the Government for doing a bad job designing a lousy education system. No one is accountable for your life except yourself.
You make the change.
Sorry, somehow your reply reflects on you being a "Yes" man?
If you've read: Yes, I did make the change, despite all arrogance from teachers and principal that I was just going to be like my batchmates, although its a career I didn't initially want. Went on to A Levels in JC. Then again, a writer is better than being a housewife who cooks, cleans and waits for her husband's return; a salesgirl trying hard to hawk her wares to customers in boutiques, right? At the end of the day, its change that matters to prevent me from being the norms of what this system wants me to be when I fell into this route because I'm late bloomer. Why, I am glad to a certain extent that I had the opportunity to make my way into University instead of leeching off a man's income (ICK!). That's my pride.
Having said all these, yet, my basis of concern lies in the way how NA students are being mercilessly treated by their principals who are keen on boosting their own school's repute. You were, perhaps, an Express student in an Esteemed School and have not seen first hand the preferrential treatment of students in a mixed corhort school. Beget me if I'm wrong. When the Government says it offers an 'Equal Opportunity' education for all, it has to adhere to its words and roll out a platform that falls in line with its words.And it must also be one which fits the late bloomers into it and allow them to reach for their goals.
Each Singapore citizen is a precious resource to this country.
Originally posted by sbst275:now it's worst, it exposes that our education system is purely based on memory work to excel (from e statement).
I think if it depends on memory work to survive, creativity is not present. That's why Singapore can never be like Sweden for example into producing good engineers.
Any case, the system here isn't anywhere better. Seriously, those poor in Maths & O levels combo are made to take Engineering in poly. If they ever made it to local uni, Maths would become the biggest problem as possibly many does not have A Maths background.
Education is more of providing the basic to everyone regardless of your results and not making the kids suffer later on for not even inparting them e skills.
I agree that education should be a stepping stone into this working world. And it is - having a graduate degree doesn't mean you'll be entitled a management trainee post these days. You've got to work your way up using both EQ and IQ. But the idea of meritocracy seeded into this education system has throughout the past years seeded hatred between students in the 'A' class and 'D' class, so much so Jack Neo came up with the novel film, "I Not Stupid" just to give Singapore parents, teachers and yes - the MOE - a slice of life.
Or else, everyone's just blinded by mertis, the Chinese saying of 'Xou Wang Xiang Zhu' will not be applicable in modern context because the so-called smart man as judged by his grades will choose to help the brothers of his kind, and not anyone else even if it were his kin; keith.
Just one siao principle does not imply all are bad, and if without sg education, you might not be study in oversea, my take is sg education is sound, just that your govt for whatever reason supported foreign scholars more than locals with your tax monies. Foreign scholars of whatever ABC university or colleges can easily gain entry into your uni or poly with full or partial monetary fund support from your govt without much strings attached, and these foreigners, when graduated is going to compete with the locals graduate with a lower or beyong lower salary expection.
Originally posted by WeiHui:Talking Point:
What has 'meritocracy' done to Singapore's education since it allows elitism; resentment; to breed? In fact, it hampers social cohesiveness as it widens our social gap.
If you recall what happened in early 2008 when a principal of a well-known school lashed hurtful, even discouraging comments at a corhort of Secondary 5 students, disappointment were aired all over the place and the media even ran a decently negative story on the fact of life of most Sec 5 students upon graduation.
That same year and time, I was abroad completing my undergraduate studies when my schoolmate had requested me to run an internal story in my University's papers on this issue. Honest, I had long forgotten and wanted to forget what the Singapore education was like despite having been trapped in it for 12+ years, and instatenously I was forced to re-accept, re-knidle and remember the hurtful phase I've been through. All because I had taken that route.
While all these has come to past, I would never forget the treatment I recieved both from my relatives, teachers and schoolmates; a bitter taste of life. I hereby warrant for reformative push in Singapore's General Education system as it does not serve its main purpose of strengthening social cohesiveness and providing a platform to educate Singaporeans in a manner that would empower them to become creative thinkers, opinionated individuals and enterprizing business owners who are keen on enhancing the quality of life and social integration.
What the Education System does is widen social gaps starting with individual streaming, grouping of elites and later labelling individuals with hurtful, risid comments that is sin in unfortunately, Christ's eye.
Sadly, the current system is only aimed at creating a wealth of technicians able to work but not think like Bill Gates; Steve Jobs; Mark Wilson - even David Copperfield, rather people apt at monotonous reading than intelligent and critical thinking. Very unlike the Australian education system; International school system whereby youths, to be precise - teenagers, are allowed to explore their interests and strengths first before commiting themselves to their respective field of study. And whether is it a hands-on technical course or pure academia, they excel in it.
Today, our system has come to a point whereby a youth with a decent 'C6' gets to enter an Engineering course in a polytechnic; less-than-average grades to seek solace in NUS and NTU's Engineering faculty, are we going to pay homage to the 1970s Hotel New World crash? When ironically popular skills course like Mass Communications requires you to score at least a B3 to be considered entry with a need to pass math (when its not a requirement in the practical world of comms)? Think people, think - is this proper and can be accepted? Can Singapore afford to have nuclear scientists; nuclear technicians with a borderline pass in Math - disturbing and frightening, right? Engineering should not be viewed as a dumping ground because lives are at stake.
As for myself, the path I've been through failed to take me on a route to becoming a doctor but a lifestyle writer, while majority of my classmates - sadly, 90% - became salesgirls and young mothers, with the youngest bearing a child before recieving the key to adulthood. Is this the path most Normal students need to take as a price for neglecting their primary 6 examinations? I personally believe that youths could have a brighter future if offered an equal-education opportunity to discover their interests and strengths prior to commiting to a specialized course of study.
In conclusion, I've this to say:12 is too tender a age to have your path cut out for you by the system which has to change. For your future and your child's, think now or never.
JM2C, WH. Whether you like it or not, its just mu two cents, my voice and my words.
P.S. Here's a link to an expired topic that's been debated before: http://politics.sgforums.com/forums/8/topics/298141?page=4
i sympathise with what you have been through. i share the same feelings, but before i go on to throw cold water on you about how the entire system here works,
we should first always remind ourselves that each of those who gave up since their youth are not because they are they are less smart than us. first of all, do you seriously think that the current system is a meritocratic one? do you really think that you & I having graduate degrees are considered successful? if you truly think so, then you have fallen into the same trap that this ruling party has laid out for us.
the lower 'reserves' as someone said, are not any less capable than us, it is just that they are not allowed to discover their interest and strength before their interest is killed off totally. by school ranking, class ranking and so on. they may even be doing better than us under another country's system. it is merely a perception created over the years (at the expense of other types of talents) that people with memory skills are the most important. therefore, we as the upper 'reserves' has nothing that suggests we are more capable than the lower 'reserves', just like there is also absolutely nothing that suggest those not classified as reserves are indeed that smarter.
all right, now for the cold hard truth. it is not only the education system that is working like this. it is the entire system from education to work to yes, even politics
which also works that way. we are trained from young to learn everything right up to university. in the end we are not particularly excellent in any.
however, every child, every person has different strength, different interests but
under this current system, they are not only not allowed to flourish, their perception
of what it means of doing well is seriously distorted in their early years and so
if reproducing classroom notes within that 2-3 hours of exam is not their strength,
they will be penalised for life. memory and ability to multi-task becomes a priority
in this country so it carries through to life as working adults as well.
don't get me wrong. i am not saying people with such skillsets are not important. it is just that it is viewed as the highest of capabilities and thus the most important on this island. in fact, the way how everything is run here, from school ranking, class ranking, job requirements, facts selectively presented in parliament and on TV makes it highly suspicious that such a perception of what is defined as capable is intricately crafted for the rest of us. you can even smell a rat that in their pursuit of this claim of superiority over the others, even if singaporeans and children with all other talents are marginalised and could risk losing interest to learn altogether early in their life, it doesn't bother them much.
so it goes from here that people with the skills of being able to handle many different tasks are valued much more and thus the monetary system to reward the individual is also made to be that way. the ability to multi-task often happens to be the same group of people who have good memory. managers become the most important position in every industry in this country and what most aim for.
but in society, various jobs requires different skillsets of which many takes much more than just memory skills or multi-tasking skills. in engineering, we need people who are curious, adventurous and willing to try things, even break things. something may need to first fail or break before some other things are discovered. we also need to constantly question, challenge the status quo for any breakthrough.
experience and specialising is also important. some of my retiring european colleagues are still working on the same project that they have started on when they first joined the company after graduation. but the way the highest level managers (govt) up there changes focus area every 10 years means tens of years of work experience will be wiped out. retraining will always be required. excuse for the need of foreign talents can also be made legitimate.
in creative arts, it requires yet a very different set of skills and raw talent to produce beautiful pieces. i am not a creative person and so am not a position to comment on what is required to be in this industry. one thing is for sure though. both fields require things to be done one thing at a time, frequently with good precision for engineering and i believe finding the right touch in creative arts.
so if you have noticed, many govt organisations always asked for graduates with
first class or second class upper. you may have also heard this before, 'degree holders are only suited to washing test tubes.' again, don't be mistaken, i am not saying first class/ second class honours are not good. it is just to show you how myopic and simplistic the selection process of this country is, in all aspects of society. all these therefore creates the class of what i call false eliticism or exam meritocracy.
i would like to clarify that true eliticism and true meritocracy is good. why? you may
ask. this is because if the people concerned are true elites, it benefits society. of
course, it is also necessary that they come with the compassion to share the wealth. all right, back to the discussion on talent & ability. if they are really that capable, everyone will benefit. at least in economic sense. but the fact is, for the past 20 years, the average singaporean quality of life has not improved much.
not only we are left to fend for our own in the very basics of human needs in this 'first world society'; education, retirement, healthcare and housing, using what we earn monthly. the worst of this is; come crisis times, the very job that helps us take care of the above listed burdens in life is at high risk of loss for good. and the excuse given to us is; singapore is subjected to 'external factors beyond our control'. it is only due to the mainstream media that huge mistakes in policies and glaring fundamental flaws are swept under the carpet but singaporeans are not that stupid not to take notice at all.
and whenever election time comes in the 90's if you remember, we are always reminded that this or that candidate is a president scholar or straight A student, 20 years ago that is.as you can see, true performance is not relevant at all to what these people did 20-30 years ago in their exams. what we need instead is adventurous school drop outs like steve jobs. apple now has a market capitalisation of more than 300 billion, more than the gdp of s'pore and has created some of the best products and become the most valuable technological company on planet earth
<Henry Ford's Model T ushered in the modern assembly line, made the automobile affordable, Yet he had very little formal education. Thomas Edison's formal education ended when he was seven years old. His teacher said young Edison had an "addled" mind and was a poor student. His mother homeschooled him. Edison did pretty well for himself later: He brought the world the incandescent light bulb, the phonograph, and hundreds of other inventions.> quoted.
therefore, if true eliticism and performance exist in this country. we may be like japan, with the largest carmaking and multimedia industry in the world. we may be like south korea, they have samsung, the world largest consumer electronics company, not to forget hyundai and LG. we may be even like taiwan who has the world largest TSMC and foxconn, in semiconductor and contract manufacturing respectively. you can easily find similar instances in other industries. this is not to mention US & the other european countries which are worlds apart in many sectors of industry and most importantly in how they take care of the basic needs of their citizens.
so to wrap up, let me give you an example. if these people are truly as outstanding as they have painted themselves to be or as capable as suggested in the way they have rewarded themselves, the interest rates we get on our cpf would be 10% per annum instead. now they cannot afford to give this interest rate. why? they, like any normal beings has succumbed, two years ago, to the primitive impulses similar to those found in animals & cavemen. they went on a buying spree on financial assets in citigroup, UBS, merrill lynch and barclays in 2008, a few months before the lehman debacle.
let us take ourselves back to april 2008; ***** the trend has been a rising one, this recent setback in price is a perfect opportunity to buy and so it seems logical for them to linearly project prices into the sky. anyway, star analysts in major investment banks in US have all mentioned this is just a correction. 'Dow Jones will go to 30,000' and so we now know that the blue sky was what they saw a few months after they have bought in.
now with the benefit of hindsight, of course we can say anything we want but a closer look at the situation at that time reveals that the claim of never being able to have foreseen the collapse of major investment banks in US, is in fact a convenient untruth. the number of experts in US, warning just before the crisis of a bank meltdown due to a burst bubble in US real estate, though few, were giving sufficient valid reasons for the danger ahead, not less that they are past nobel economics prize winners. although they are not in the thick of action in markets, such warnings should serve well enough for anyone not to go on a buying spree like that. furthermore, these people handling our money are supposed to be that good (4xobama's salary), aren't they?
<all these happened because for the most part, consumers judge prices of rice and clothing consciously according to their needs and means but when human beings value financial assets, they must contend with a debilitating lack of knowledge and feelings of uncertainty. unconsciously, they contend with these judgements in sympathy with or in reaction to the opinions and behaviour of others. this surrender of responsibility makes them participants, which is not a reasoning entity.> quoted
safety in numbers works well for the cavemen. in financial markets, it often brings the opposite result. after all, everyone see the same market commentaries, read the same newspapers, analyse the same economic numbers, look at the same stock indices everyday in such markets, when it is so obvious, it is obviously wrong. it appears that it would have been much better even if they have stayed put and not bought or sold anything. but in the end, we are made to pay for their mistakes.
therefore, after 10 years of compulsory education with rules set by someone else which serves to benefit themselves, we are now already at work and we cannot reverse what we have been through in school but it is still not too late to do something for our children. true, the content of the education here is not too bad but the philosophy behind the motivation of discovering 'talents' in the process and the objective of what is set out to achieve ultimately in a person's education life span is far from ideal. we need to ask ourselves whether school rankings, class rankings especially that it is based mainly on examinations , is necessary.
yes indeed, we are accountable for our own lives. we have the freedom of choice.
in a few weeks time, we can express this choice so that we can set ourselves free for good and most importantly with the possibility of rewriting the rules for all future generations of singaporeans so that they can maximise his/her own strength and who can contribute towards a better future for us all and not just carrying a piece of paper that indicate that few hours of memory excellence during our youthful years. these people affected by our choice will be our children, our grandchildren. each of them will be different. it is not possible that every one of them will be 'this successful'(becoming a scholar), or even 'as successful as us' (graduating with a degree), if we even consider this as successful. let us not put them through what we have been through.
Originally posted by likeyou:So far, spore education system has changed alot.
In the past, we only have 5 yrs psle. Either you go secondary or out you go if you fail your psle. Either you go express or normal. If noraml n level fail, out you go. If express pass, you go poly or jc...I mean those very simple way of moving to U or Poly without any alternatives to fall back on.
Recently been looking at the chart of the education system from primary = Sec = Ite = Poly = U.....whatever where you go to, there will be a path for you to fall back on its track. eg) if psle fair very badly, You go to N(T), that is not the end of the world, if you work hard, you can still go to (A), and so on.
Yah.
But I think we got to bring the stress level down.
My friends at international school is happier than us.
Their stress level lower and easier than us.
They A level then learn A maths.
So far, spore education system has changed alot.
In the past, we only have 5 yrs psle. Either you go secondary or out you go if you fail your psle. Either you go express or normal. If noraml n level fail, out you go. If express pass, you go poly or jc...I mean those very simple way of moving to U or Poly without any alternatives to fall back on.
Recently been looking at the chart of the education system from primary = Sec = Ite = Poly = U.....whatever where you go to, there will be a path for you to fall back on its track. eg) if psle fair very badly, You go to N(T), that is not the end of the world, if you work hard, you can still go to (A), and so on.
i agree. it was much worse before as far as i can remember, year 2004. before that, the flaunt of superiority in 'exam capability' was often downright deplorable, even after they had left school for decades, so to speak. nevermind the frequent lack of true ability that should supposedly commensurate such ability to perform in exams. it was only in 2005, when current finance minister tharman took over the education portfolio that things started to change for the better.
in fact, he has also admitted that the system is an exam meritocratic one, so it can be seen that there is only so much he can do around the basic philosophy of the framework laid down by someone else. therefore, credit must go to him that children less academically inclined who were schooling after 2005, were much less discriminated and marginalised than those in my era. having said that, that basic framework has to change if we really want to make the next leap
i think we need to recognise that the education system is evolving. we should be concerned if we do not evolve and keep up with the needs of the now. don't always compare to other countries.. people are more lax when it comes to studies.. etc etc we can use it as a guide as to how we want to shape our system.. but no use wanting to be like them. the grass is always greener on the other side.
that depends on the rate of how things evolve relative to one another.
if it is evolving in such a way that; the rate at which it serves to enhance the extravagance of a privileged few and at the same time offers protection to the same group from accountability, is in fact much quicker than the daily essentials of the rest are being addressed, all under false perceptions of meritocracy here,
then we are not even in a position to talk about greener grass yet, especially when the rest are still grappling with the need for better soil to begin seeding under these same perceptions created, that good fertilisers will be arriving for all.
When someone go for a interview, one need to have a good certificate to gain entry for interviewing. Without a good certificate, we will not be able to go into a good company or work in the govt sector as employers will look at your grades you score from O to A to U/Poly.
Without a good certifcate will not get you further/higher.
Originally posted by likeyou:When someone go for a interview, one need to have a good certificate to gain entry for interviewing. Without a good certificate, we will not be able to go into a good company or work in the govt sector as employers will look at your grades you score from O to A to U/Poly.
Without a good certifcate will not get you further/higher.
Not really, if you are talking abt public sector, i agree, but on private sector, not all bosses look at yr cert, they look more on your abilities, skills and experiences, I see some people with O level are holding top management position with degrees and diploma holders under them. And the way they sell or market their product is fantastic that no books in school have written it.
To private bosses like me, as long as you can churn me profits and turn a piece of shit into gold, i careless your education, welcome to my organisation.
MOE teachers expect their Primary school students to get tution and extra help on top of their compulsory education. My Children are force to take up tution as the teachers refuse to slow down their pace of teachings. Get extra help if you can't catch up!
What is wrong with our education system? Teachers only look at Good grades?
If a Chinese student boy without any former pass in english, from a china sch, can enter yr Secondary Sch at an age older by a year or two than his classmates, why are singaporeans finding it difficult to keep up with the pace of teaching and need tuition?