The government leaders have been telling the people that a minimum wage will cause the jobs to be lost. This is only partly true; largely, it is false.
A minimum wage is necessary to ensure that the worker earns enough to pay for the cost of living by doing a full day's work. If the wage is below the minimum, the worker has to work longer hours. This will cause other people to be unemployed. For a stable society, we need to have most people, who are able and willing to work, to be able to find a job and earn enough enough to raise a family and be a contributing member of society.
A decent wage, as opposed to a sub-minimum wage, does not cause the loss of jobs. Wages are only one component of the total cost of production. The other components are cost of property (i.e. rental), government taxes and shareholder profits. If wages are too low, more of the cost goes towards rental and profits. The imbalance, between wages and rental, is one factor leading to the high property prices in Singapore.
Many of the jobs in a country are in the service sector. They are part of the domestic economy. They have to be done in the country and cannot be lost. Examples are education, health, transport and personal services. A minimum wage to these sectors affect all businesse and will be added to the cost of providing the service. It can be kept low, if the other components, such as rental, taxes and profits, are kept at the fair market levels - and are not inflated due to the failure of the market, e.g. if there is a near monopoly.
Many global businesses come to Singapore to enjoy the low wages contributed by foreign workers who work in Singapore. The social cost of these foreign workers have not been properly factored - i.e. the overcrowding and the strain on the public services (i.e education, health and transport). If these are properly accounted, the strategy of low wages, i.e. no minimum wage, in creating jobs in Singapore is not compelling.
I believe that it is time for a minimum wage to be introduced in Singapore and for the market in labour to find its new level. I believe that we are among the few developed economies that do not have a minimum wage.
Tan Kin Lian
Hong Kong sets Minimum Wage - What one Singaporean thinks
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Originally posted by angel7030:
I have read some post at the Taxi forum, and my understanding is that there are job opportunity there, people have to strife for a living, you cannot expect spoonfeeding, u can drive taxi with a $100+ income per day, just go take a license, work honestly and work hard on it, everything have it first time, hard time and difficult time, but once this is past, you are a professional of your own careers, it does not mean that being a U or diploma or any other teritiary education make you a professional, my taking is everyone working on his/her work is the best profession of his/her own work.
We can provide you the fishing rod and worm, but you have to do the fishing
Good to know that our budding taxi drivers are doing well.
But there are still...
Lowest paid jobs in Singapore*
1. Office cleaner $6002. Manufacturing labourer and related worker $760
3. Kitchen assistant $991
4. Plastic product machine operator $994
5. Hospital attendant $1,000
6. Travel agency and related clerk $1,016
7. Waiter $1,080
8. Pre-primary education teachers $1,100
9. Lorry attendant $1,102
10. Pest exterminator $1,106
* Based on median starting salary ...data from The New PaperMore compassion please.
Kind Regards
Genie
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Originally posted by angel7030:
certainly i am not jealous, why should i be, a free market allow a free socialism.
what i am try to say here is that alots of people in singapore are not poor, maybe average, but certainly not poor, however, a lots of them make themselves poor by engaging thing that is beyong their mean, some like to gamble, some like to flirt around and drink,,...so end up, you tell the govt or the society that you are poor, need help and look/act pitiful. The most fundamental issue here is not about minimum wages, but rather on financial awareness or financial planing, social well being and certainly good discipline.
With OT this Uncle can take home $1.8k to 2k net, he have to spend it on his beautiful and young PRC gal, his house, his childrens and his family, so end up he is poor. And that is why i mentioned that most peoples in Singapore make themselve poor thru unethical behavior. Most are matured adult, not kids, you tell them too much, they also said you kaypoh, it is alright to have mistress, drinks, spending lavishly as you like, but ending up saying you are poor, that is too much, these peoples need to do some soul searching.
I understand where you're coming from but we cannot assume all of them will use the $ on beautiful PRC gals and iphones.... what if it was for his mortgage, wife and children?
Kind Regards
Genie
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Originally posted by Genie99a:
Good to know that our budding taxi drivers are doing well.
But there are still...
Lowest paid jobs in Singapore*
1. Office cleaner $6002. Manufacturing labourer and related worker $760
3. Kitchen assistant $991
4. Plastic product machine operator $994
5. Hospital attendant $1,000
6. Travel agency and related clerk $1,016
7. Waiter $1,080
8. Pre-primary education teachers $1,100
9. Lorry attendant $1,102
10. Pest exterminator $1,106
* Based on median starting salary ...data from The New PaperMore compassion please.
Kind Regards
Genie
I think this is a wrong statistic, cleaners can go training at e2i and get an increment, notice those cleaner using equipment to wash floor and plates, they are well trained, and get above $1k per month, plus employer CPF, will be abt $1200k. Even tho this is a median paid, most would had been on the higher end.What govt wants is to train singapore to be supervisor or team leader, and the rest be FW, but singaporeans are not forthcoming, most have that fix mindset, refuse to change way of working, and refuse to learn IT way of working. But we cannot blame them, after years of working as operators, spend unwisely, did not care much about childrens ending them growing up less educated or simply cannot afford to paid them monthly or unfilial piety childrens. However, some older workers are not physical strong anymore and some actually have filial piety childrens to take care of them, but they simply want to live a labourer life which is what they like most, I know a few cardboard and cans collectors in joo chiat plying their trade at waterloo street, morning their sons/daughters drive big car sent them there, and evening, send them back, in this way, their life is less boring. So, you have to do a real statistic on the ground, dun depend on data too much, even MP roam the ground ya.
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Originally posted by Genie99a:
Good to know that our budding taxi drivers are doing well.
But there are still...
Lowest paid jobs in Singapore*
1. Office cleaner $6002. Manufacturing labourer and related worker $760
3. Kitchen assistant $991
4. Plastic product machine operator $994
5. Hospital attendant $1,000
6. Travel agency and related clerk $1,016
7. Waiter $1,080
8. Pre-primary education teachers $1,100
9. Lorry attendant $1,102
10. Pest exterminator $1,106
* Based on median starting salary ...data from The New PaperMore compassion please.
Kind Regards
Genie
angel7030 is suggesting that all quit whatever they are doing and be taxi drivers.
Singapore a unique nation of taxi drivers.
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Parnie and Aceone10, pls have a cup of
each.
After that make peace, shake hands , and become friends.
I am sure u two can be good friends of one another..
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I had this inkling that if a minimum wage is implemented, it will give good excuse to remove the workfare bonus wage supplement.
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Originally posted by eagle:
I had this inkling that if a minimum wage is implemented, it will give good excuse to remove the workfare bonus wage supplement.
Hi Eagle,
Thanks for pointing that out I was not even aware of this scheme. I think its similar to a minimum wage as far as general direction is concerned except that it only takes effect at age 35 and at 75% effectiveness. Age 45 and above get the full benefit.
However I'm confused as to why not just go ahead and implement a minimum wage of $1500 across the board age 21 and above?
Although the intention is good as the gahmen I think wants the younger generation to not take it for granted however I have a feeling companies that exploit cheap labour for profits would simply hire workers below 35 to dodge the system. This would also aggravate Singaporeans with the mindset that its harder to find jobs as you grow older.
The scheme will only apply if you are employed therefore if you are age 35 and above but can't find a job you are not entitled to the scheme.
Kind RegardsGenie
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Hi Genie,
it's transparent to companies as workfare is given by the govt, not the companies. It supplements the wages.
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Originally posted by eagle:
Hi Genie,
it's transparent to companies as workfare is given by the govt, not the companies. It supplements the wages.
Ahh.... the gahmen pays the difference so it makes no difference to the companies .... yes that would solve the problem with the additional deterrant for the younger generation to not become lazy. However it would cost more for the government then....but that's not my issue. As far as I'm concerned my gripe is cleared
.Thanks Eagle.
Kind Regards
Genie
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Originally posted by Aceone10:
Things you can see and understand is really amazing!!! LOL.. I really start to wonder you even have a brain at all?? Or you got the million dollars brain??? The one that is clean with lots of memory space left cos nvr used?? lol
You really entertaining!! Keep coming biatch...
"The one that is clean with lots of memory space left cos nvr used?? lol"
You sentences are beginning to make make little sense, especially when you're agitated while you are trying to reply.
How's your Mum's business doing?
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Originally posted by Aceone10:
Genie,
Dont waste your time in replying to that Biatch!!! This biatch is here to shoot and whore around only. Not here to exchange opinion like every others.
See the Biatch pass way of replying you will know.
This Biatch credibility is negative zero so unless you like me wanna have some fun with this toy. lol
I bet you do not even understand what Genie wrote to me.Who do you blame for turning you into a society failure? Your parents? Your friends? Government? LKY? Whatever?
I'm only interested in Whatever.
By the way, you don't spell Bitch like Biatch - even though it may show us that you're terribly bitter and piss off verbally. But this is just an online forum, blame yourself if you choose to get so pathetically serious about it.
You may start kicking yourself now.
How do you feel being put down just a dog by a girl?
Start getting used to it, the world is different already.
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Originally posted by Genie99a:
1 )The minimum wage legislation saw huge opposition from big businesses who threatened to layoff workers but the fact is only their profits will be hurt. The minimum wage set at S$5.84 per hour is not high but the victory shows that it is possible in Hong Kong to win against the big businesses there to bring about greater social equity - something we cannot see in SingaporeI lifted it off the article itself.
2) Do you believe me if I were to say its the role of the government and the unions to set policies to help Singaporeans make a living?
3) Here's the big picture.
"Michael Chan, chairman of fast-food giant Cafe de Coral - who was ranked by Forbes magazine as the 35th richest man in Hong Kong in 2009 - has said his company might issue a profit warning if the hourly rate proposed by the unions became law. "
All Mr Chan cares about is that he is answerable to the board and his shareholders.
Now what about these guys... again lifted from the article.
Lowest paid jobs in Singapore*
1. Office cleaner $600 (My Secondary School Pocket $ also more than him)
2. Manufacturing labourer and related worker $760
3. Kitchen assistant $991
4. Plastic product machine operator $994
5. Hospital attendant $1,000
6. Travel agency and related clerk $1,016
7. Waiter $1,080
8. Pre-primary education teachers $1,100
9. Lorry attendant $1,102
10. Pest exterminator $1,106
* Based on median starting salary ...data from The New PaperSo tell me.... Is Michael Chan exploiting cheap labour (Costs) to attain higher profits.... so that his board and shareholders is happy and gives him a big fat bonus so he can climb higher in Forbes magazine?
Kind RegardsGenie
IF Michael Chan is not doing whatever he can to attain higher profits for the company, then he is not doing his job.Lifted from articles which were derived from innocent-looking SURVEY.... My goodness, this is the kind of subjective articles that present itself as the perfect tools for biased people to influence the public's opinions.
There's always another articles that tells you another story.
And by the way, your statistics from The New Paper is terribly outdated and incorrect.
Do you need to look for an updated one? How about applying for the above "lowest paid" jobs in Singapore and unveil the lies for yourself?
It looks good enough for foreign workers who don't fall under the minimum wages scheme or have any wages rights.
Go find out for yourself that the rates are going to be terribly different for Singaporeans.
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Originally posted by Genie99a:
Are you being off topic?I am asking your opinion towards Singapore implementing a minimum wage policy to safeguard the wellbeing of the lowly paid.
There is no need to be defensive and compare both countries as there are valid pros and cons across both countries.
Kind Regards
Genie
I do not agree to minimum wages law to be implemented in Singapore.Such laws will only kill Talents and Competition in the job market.
Do you wish to be paid the same pay as the other person in the same job as you, regardless of how well you have performed at your job and qualifications/experiences?
Do you wish to be stuck on the low minimum wage for as long as you are in the same job position until you are promoted?
Unless you got this wild and vivid imaginations that minimum wage law is going to somehow INCREASE your current wages, I need to remind you again that if you are talking about MINIMUM wage law, please don't expect to get paid with an amount that ISN'T MINIMUM.
Unless we're in Disneyland and you're Peter Pan.
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Originally posted by kengkia:
Parnie and Aceone10, pls have a cup of
each.
After that make peace, shake hands , and become friends.
I am sure u two can be good friends of one another..
I don't mind if you want to help your brudders or bite one bullet for him.You know I'm not the person who need help or any form of rescuing.
We're both EVIL when we allowed ourselves to get into any argument with another.
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In Hong Kong if you are unemployed, the government gives you money to help sustain your household. Hong Kong's electricity supply rate is already low compared to Singapore, yet they have special rebates to help the elderly pay for the power supply.
In Singapore if you are unemployed, the government ask that you look for a job (even if you can't find one), they also came up with GST to help the poor.
8.2 An unemployed person may receive an assistance comprising standard rates and special grants. The maximum and minimum monthly standard rates payable are $1,965 and $1,290 respectively. Special grants include payments to cover rent, water charges, school fees, child care centre fees and burial expenses. The total amount of payment under the two items is estimated to be about $2,520. If the unemployed person's family is a four-member CSSA household, his family can receive an estimated monthly payment of $9,450. This figure is equivalent to 55.6% of the median monthly domestic household income10 and is slightly lower than the average monthly expenditure11 of non-CSSA households in the lowest 25%expenditure group. For the monthly CSSA payments payable to different categories of CSSA households, please refer to Appendix II.
http://www.legco.gov.hk/yr99-00/english/sec/library/e19.pdf
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In Singapore, all the taxes collected goes into helping the poor Ministers family, else the Minister's family will suffer and being Singaporeans we don't want to see our Minister's family suffer.
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Originally posted by parn:
I don't mind if you want to help your brudders or bite one bullet for him.You know I'm not the person who need help or any form of rescuing.
We're both EVIL when we allowed ourselves to get into any argument with another.
Wrong wrong wrong of you..that person is not my brudder and i dun have any.
But i wun hesitate to take on bullet in ya place.
i also wun mind dying in your place...
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Originally posted by parn:
I do not agree to minimum wages law to be implemented in Singapore.Such laws will only kill Talents and Competition in the job market.
Do you wish to be paid the same pay as the other person in the same job as you, regardless of how well you have performed at your job and qualifications/experiences?
Do you wish to be stuck on the low minimum wage for as long as you are in the same job position until you are promoted?
Unless you got this wild and vivid imaginations that minimum wage law is going to somehow INCREASE your current wages, I need to remind you again that if you are talking about MINIMUM wage law, please don't expect to get paid with an amount that ISN'T MINIMUM.
Unless we're in Disneyland and you're Peter Pan.
Hi Parn,
Doesn't matter .... I have been made aware by eagle (Read a few posts before yours) of this "workfare bonus wage supplement" scheme that the government has implemented and it provides the equivalent of a minimum wage.
Kind Regards
Genie
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Originally posted by parn:
1) IF Michael Chan is not doing whatever he can to attain higher profits for the company, then he is not doing his job.2) Lifted from articles which were derived from innocent-looking SURVEY....
3) My goodness, this is the kind of subjective articles that present itself as the perfect tools for biased people to influence the public's opinions. There's always another articles that tells you another story.
And by the way, your statistics from The New Paper is terribly outdated and incorrect.
Do you need to look for an updated one? How about applying for the above "lowest paid" jobs in Singapore and unveil the lies for yourself?
It looks good enough for foreign workers who don't fall under the minimum wages scheme or have any wages rights.
4) Go find out for yourself that the rates are going to be terribly different for Singaporeans.
1) If Michael Chan does his job and maximises profits by squeezing wages then the government should step in with policies to protect the welfare of the people.2) It wasn't a survey it was a blog from an unknown Singaporean... lets try another blog this time from a known Singaporean Tan Kin Lian.
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2010/07/minimum-wage.html
Tan Kin Lian was the ex Chief Executive for NTUC.
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Tuesday, May 25, 2010
Minimum wage
3) The statistics from the New Paper are taken at face value. I believe it is a common conspiracy theory that the media is sterilised by the government. I don't think I was being bias. You however are being defensive by suggesting that the data from the local paper is wrong. Like I said take it at face value. I believe we both have not the time to do bo liao things such as applying for said jobs just to prove a point in this forum.4) Offer declined. As I stand I'll take the data from the New Paper at face value. You may however volunteer your services
Kind RegardsGenie -
Originally posted by parn:
I don't mind if you want to help your brudders or bite one bullet for him.You know I'm not the person who need help or any form of rescuing.
We're both EVIL when we allowed ourselves to get into any argument with another.
Originally posted by kengkia:Wrong wrong wrong of you..that person is not my brudder and i dun have any.
But i wun hesitate to take on bullet in ya place.
i also wun mind dying in your place...
Haiz.... is I old liao.... or these 2 too young.
Kind Regards
Genie
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Originally posted by Genie99a:
Haiz.... is I old liao.... or these 2 too young.
Kind Regards
Genie
Senior, you old liao la
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Originally posted by eagle:
Senior, you old liao la
...... the road is long .... with many a winding turn.......
Kind RegardsGenie
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even if it's a winding road plus uneven one, i also wun mind, for sake of her..
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haha is easy, just pay $60 at GL 69 and she will be yours for the next hr and suck you dry. lol
Beware of her stingy mouth!!
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Originally posted by Aceone10:
A responsible nation will know how to balance the law. There are places the GOV can reduce to balance the increased. It all down to how caring the GOV is, isn't it?
Many citizen been asking for the GOV just to give a little more thought to the citizen in every policy and new policy in the making. If through the media in every political related websites you can find, majorities are posting for the same. So humanity is the current GOV?
I'd not read the HK new law, but I do believe the law is not pass down just strait without other adjustment to offset the losses to the businesses.
I personnally think with such law and adjustment to the Foreign levy, it will really give Singaporean some little comfort and better chance in employment.
the problem is how good willing or effective the ground froces controlling the rules are? if they only concenr about making the report look good, so the miniisters can make belioeve and report to media that the report statistics loooks good and we can assume our policies work so thats it.the recent news report that sgreans do not want to do manual jobs and prefer pmet jobs and so 80percent if sgreans hired as pmets are totally wrong! i can nem you all the companiesi have worked for and the companies i have visited in sg in my employment life and i can tell you besied managers, up to engineers level a lot are occupied by floot traps and they are everywhere. technicians!. just go to any industrial estastes and if you can go in and see their production floor! all floot traps! up to engineers! as a result there is no place for sgreans in the construction and manufacturing sectors anymore!