Hong Kong sets Minimum Wage - What one Singaporean thinks
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http://singaporemind.blogspot.com/2010/07/hong-passed-minimum-wage-law-yesterday.html
Agree/Disagree
Reasons if you wish.
Kind Regards
Genie
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investors/businesses intending to set up shop in HK, will change course come here, adding more money direct, in-directly to govt. coffer.
On marco scale, rich and poor gap will be widen further.
On mirco scale, more FTs and none locals will be added into the workforce as result of these businesses setting up shop here. The local will gain little or nothing, but more EP,WP,PR will be granted to more FTs.
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Originally posted by kengkia:
investors/businesses intending to set up shop in HK, will change course come here, adding more money direct, in-directly to govt. coffer.
On marco scale, rich and poor gap will be widen further.
On mirco scale, more FTs and none locals will be added into the workforce as result of these businesses setting up shop here. The local will gain little or nothing, but more EP,WP,PR will be granted to more FTs.
Hi Kengkia,
Need to put agree/disagree leh with minimum wage law.
Kind Regards
Genie
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These are some replies to the blogger. Whom my guess is are working adults.
23 comments:
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Originally posted by kengkia:
investors/businesses intending to set up shop in HK, will change course come here, adding more money direct, in-directly to govt. coffer.
On marco scale, rich and poor gap will be widen further.
On mirco scale, more FTs and none locals will be added into the workforce as result of these businesses setting up shop here. The local will gain little or nothing, but more EP,WP,PR will be granted to more FTs.
You really think just becos of this rule investor and businesses will just change course and come sg instead of HK? -
Originally posted by CannyOng:
You really think just becos of this rule investor and businesses will just change course and come sg instead of HK?
Sorry Kengkia,In this instance I agree with Canny. +1
Kind Regards
Genie
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Originally posted by Genie99a:
Hi Kengkia,
Need to put agree/disagree leh with minimum wage law.
Kind Regards
Genie
as a selfish singaporean who believes that HK's minimum wage law will affect us indirectly by bring in more FTs here as result of this as stated in my first post here.
I would disagree with HK setting up minimum wage law
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Originally posted by CannyOng:
You really think just becos of this rule investor and businesses will just change course and come sg instead of HK?no matter how much was said, how much was did. The businesses have only one thing in mind ultimately, that is wider profit margins as wide as possible.
Having minimum wage law, it will eat into company's profit margin, and as a bussinessmen in mind, they sure wun like it.
Admit it la, human beings are insatiable by nature right?
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A responsible nation will know how to balance the law. There are places the GOV can reduce to balance the increased. It all down to how caring the GOV is, isn't it?
Many citizen been asking for the GOV just to give a little more thought to the citizen in every policy and new policy in the making. If through the media in every political related websites you can find, majorities are posting for the same. So humanity is the current GOV?
I'd not read the HK new law, but I do believe the law is not pass down just strait without other adjustment to offset the losses to the businesses.
I personnally think with such law and adjustment to the Foreign levy, it will really give Singaporean some little comfort and better chance in employment.
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Originally posted by Genie99a:
http://singaporemind.blogspot.com/2010/07/hong-passed-minimum-wage-law-yesterday.html
Agree/Disagree
Reasons if you wish.
Kind Regards
Genie
This topic is going to drag too long if I were to discuss it.People with low pay will like minimum wages because they imagined it will cause an increase in their current wages. It doesn't necessary means an increase but it could be exploited by employers NOT to increase your wages if you are currently paid higher than minimum wages. And also you might get a wage deduction if your employers deemed that they are over-paying you more than the minimum wages. They can always fire you and re-employed someone else on minimum wages.
People with high pay will dislike minimum wages because they understand that it will kill off all the talents like themselves in their job market. What do you think if you are paid the same across the board, regardless of how capable, hardworking you are?
What exactly are you hoping to achieve at the end of your post?
Bring awareness to the Government? I wish you luck then.
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What's the point of studying so hard to get to that high position, when everyone almost getting the same pay which will occur in minimum wages law country.
That will cheapen the value of education, and teaching profession will no longer be respected and pay of ALL school staffs will freefall.
That's when the ugliness of human beings fully being manifested in force 100% in schools.
Go one big round, we are still talking about human's insatiable nature isn't it?
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Originally posted by parn:
This topic is going to drag too long if I were to discuss it.People with low pay will like minimum wages because they imagined it will cause an increase in their current wages. It doesn't necessary means an increase but it could be exploited by employers NOT to increase your wages if you are currently paid higher than minimum wages. And also you might get a wage deduction if your employers deemed that they are over-paying you more than the minimum wages. They can always fire you and re-employed someone else on minimum wages.
People with high pay will dislike minimum wages because they understand that it will kill off all the talents like themselves in their job market. What do you think if you are paid the same across the board, regardless of how capable, hardworking you are?
What exactly are you hoping to achieve at the end of your post?
Bring awareness to the Government? I wish you luck then.
your post is truly laughable....
firstly, even for an entry level job, there are different job wage/scale to put the right people into the right job. not everyone starts on a minimum wage level even if it is their first/entry level job. minimum wage protects the basic right of an employee from exploitation. even for a road sweeper, there are subtle wage differences that you and i may not be aware of.
and in the real world, a policy of employee retention is a much more viable & profitable business model, other factors not withstanding. no company in their right mind will hire and fire employees summarily over wage. employees are released due mainly to performances or their cost structure in running the business is unsustainable. the cost of rehiring, retraining and disruption to the business is much higher. business continuity is a lot more cost effective.
& i cannot see the co-relation between min wage and high income level and what it has to do with talent. care to elaborate?
i only get your first sentence when you say with you, the topic is gonna DRAG....you're a fag after all!
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Originally posted by kengkia:
What's the point of studying so hard to get to that high position, when everyone almost getting the same pay which will occur in minimum wages law country.
who told you that? parn?
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hey dumb parn, as I'd said, the moment you type, write or speak, you just let out your secret ----- A dumb citizen.
Continue to assume without brain. same goes to kengkia, read and understand before you even comment. Or continue to be view like a fool
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Originally posted by redDUST:
your post is truly laughable....
firstly, even for an entry level job, there are different job wage/scale to put the right people into the right job. not everyone starts on a minimum wage level even if it is their first/entry level job. minimum wage protects the basic right of an employee from exploitation. even for a road sweeper, there are subtle wage differences that you and i may not be aware of.
and in the real world, a policy of employee retention is a much more viable & profitable business model, other factors not withstanding. no company in their right mind will hire and fire employees summarily over wage. employees are released due mainly to performances or their cost structure in running the business is unsustainable. the cost of rehiring, retraining and disruption to the business is much higher. business continuity is a lot more cost effective.
& i cannot see the co-relation between min wage and high income level and what it has to do with talent. care to elaborate?
i only get your first sentence when you say with you, the topic is gonna DRAG....you're a fag after all!
Sadly, you are only looking from the perspective of an employee.And I must say these opinions of yours aren't exactly wrong if you are only looking from the perspective of an employee.
Do you believe me if I were to crush your employee's dream by telling you that employers do not think or react to minimum wages from an employee's perspective?
Fags and laughable aside, you can only voice your opinions like that because you only see yourself as the bigger picture in this topic.
You can only understand the perspective of an employer only if you are one or know one yourself.
Lastly, minimum wages are not meant to protect like you have mentioned. It's only because you have hopes to seek some form of protection from minimum wages, and you have decided to view it in that manner. Minimum wages are unfortunately meant to protect businesses and investments.
Do you really think any Government would pass any laws that were meant to dent the businesses and investments in their countries?
Go and think again. I am not obliged to convince you, but I can point you in the right direction and the areas that you are lacking.
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Originally posted by Aceone10:
hey dumb parn, as I'd said, the moment you type, write or speak, you just let out your secret ----- A dumb citizen.
Continue to assume without brain. same goes to kengkia, read and understand before you even comment. Or continue to be view like a fool
So this is related to the topic or related to the anger caused by your own personal failure in the society?You need to convince us that you're here to troll?
Save it, we already know you're a troll.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
your post is truly laughable....
firstly, even for an entry level job, there are different job wage/scale to put the right people into the right job. not everyone starts on a minimum wage level even if it is their first/entry level job. minimum wage protects the basic right of an employee from exploitation. even for a road sweeper, there are subtle wage differences that you and i may not be aware of.
and in the real world, a policy of employee retention is a much more viable & profitable business model, other factors not withstanding. no company in their right mind will hire and fire employees summarily over wage. employees are released due mainly to performances or their cost structure in running the business is unsustainable. the cost of rehiring, retraining and disruption to the business is much higher. business continuity is a lot more cost effective.
& i cannot see the co-relation between min wage and high income level and what it has to do with talent. care to elaborate?
i only get your first sentence when you say with you, the topic is gonna DRAG....you're a fag after all!
I didn't realised that my posts and opinions really means and matters so much to you.Cool down ok? This is a gentle reminder from your Idol.
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I dont realise that my posts pressed your button so much. lol... I'm a troll and you a whore and is always whoring around in here.
Speaking of your post and looks like those words of yours speak more about yourselve then any others.
Let me crush your stupid ego to think all employer as heartless as you dumb A*s. So save your perthatic comment and does it make you sad that most people here had a heart while you dont?
Oh.. You dont have one so how can you be sad??
Do I have to teach you more??
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humans, being combative in nature will always try to find things to fault someone with, or hand itchy trying to look for a fight, i dun blame u though.
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Originally posted by Aceone10:
I dont realise that my posts pressed your button so much. lol... I'm a troll and you a whore and is always whoring around in here.
Speaking of your post and looks like those words of yours speak more about yourselve then any others.
Let me crush your stupid ego to think all employer as heartless as you dumb A*s. So save your perthatic comment and does it make you sad that most people here had a heart while you dont?
Oh.. You dont have one so how can you be sad??
Do I have to teach you more??
?????You can start by being more focus on your argument.
Troll, whore, whoring, stupid, ego, pathetic, sad, heart - All of this has no meaning to me if you are unable to focus on your argument.
When I mentioned that you are a Troll, I was just stating a fact and you have also admitted that you are a Troll.
And you are welcome to teach, only if you are perceptive enough to teach.
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How do human competitive nature related to looking for a fight?? How is this even related?? How is looking for a fight is being competitive?? So being a gangster is damn competitive huh...
So did I admit I'm a Troll?? If I did and you too admit you a whore. You will have to pay me to teach you how to serve so tat you can get more customer and be the no.1 whore in GL. I can teach you 101 if the price is right.
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Think I see clone....
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I disagree with the law.
To clarify first, I do not know what are the minimum wage that has been set. So what I'm going to reason on is base on Singapore current wage system.
1. E.g. If the min. wage for the service staff in the F&B industry is $3.50/ hr as what our current Fast Food is giving out now, it means that it will be applied across the industry. Hence, if an employee wants to argue on the basis that he or she has XX years of experience and should be commanding a higher pay, the company has the right to reject as they have followed the law giving a $3.50/ hr wage.
This would in turn burst the bubble of increasing wage in the long run as majority of the companies aim is to cut cost. Thus, they would keep it to the minimum as much as possible.
2. It is indeed good business sense to increase an employee's pay slightly so as to retain that person. But if this employee can threaten to leave the company because of that pay, can this company trust this person to be loyal to the company?
Only real talents gets the pay which is higher than the minimum wage. Employees should really ask themselves this questions. Are they replaceable? If they are, then I think minimum wage is the best you can ask for. Why should the company find the trouble to deal with you arguing with them every day when they can easily bring in another person to replace you? All they need to do is to advertise and employ. Not happy? Employ again. A news paper adv is cost nothing to the company as compared to the anguish and amount that a disgrunted employee can cost.
3. By passing minimum wage, it means that everyone is equal. What more can you offer if your skills are equal, the salary you are asking for is equal. Then all the boss need to do is close his eyes, stretch his hands out and pick the resume he have chosen. Tadah! That would be the person for the job. Not up to it? Change new one. After all, everyone cost the same!
4. HK cost of living is very high. If the minimum wage is not able to cover the basic cost of living, what is the use? It is almost near impossible to increase the minimum wage through the basis of experience, and as I said, unless you possess very beneficial skills and talent till the company cannot do without you.
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Now minimum wage is construed as a ceiling.
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Well, it is long and meaningless post. Minimum wage = starting pay. Easier for you to understand? If a company were to use this excuse to cut old employees pay, good luck to their business. Ppl talks and news spread and who will continue to work there?
PAP has 98% seats in Parliament. They thus have the ultimate liberty to pass or not pass any type of Laws, be it minimum wage, freedom of assembly, death penalty laws, election laws and what not laws.
Hong Kong, despite not being a nation and also more laissez faire, has better democracy and human rights.
People also protest freely, with up to 500,000 taking to the streets at one time.
Even our own DBS paid a good public compensation to their Hong Kong clients who lost their money in the structured notes debacle. However DBS was silent on what was paid to SIngapore clients, as compared to those paid in Hong Kong. Why?
So can anyone enlighten why Hong Kong is better in these respects than Singapore, besides Minimum wage Laws?
Are we peasants partly to blame for this state of affairs?
I say peasants becasue they bore the brunt of the PAP policies, not the elite.
Or are peasants the minority here, so much so that they are outvoted by the elites at every election?
of course peasants are to be blamed.
you reap what you sow. you vote for blood-suckers, you get sucked.
vote OUT pap
from what i have observeed, the rich in Singapore are getting richer but the poor and middle class are stagnating in income.
Had SIN Leaders came close to the performances of the Hong Kong Legislaters(Cabinet). Me thinks many of the Local Bloggers would not be doing what they are doing in Cyberspace now.
Probably, many would be vying to be in Parliament to contribute to Society. Or, they may want to spent their times pursuing leisures.
Even the blinds know the rich are getting richer and the poor are poorer in SIN, they may not see but they never failed to hear the sighings.
Minimun wage could be meaningless if the costs of livings are raised faster and frequently than a token sum to the present wage. A vicious cycle had been created, restrict foreigners will cause great fall in consumptions. Allow foreigners, Singaporeans get sidelined for jobs and prices of everything goes up. And the ultimate Archilles Heel, the peasai size of the City.
The Talented Leaders are confident they have all the answers, BUT unfortunately, the People do not have confidence and trust of their Leaderships and there are all the signs that they have given up hopes on them.
patriot
Passing of minimum wage laws is only a wayang. There is no point in interfering with prices if the underlying supply and demand is imbalanced. Setting a minimum wage while massively importing foreigners will only increase unemployment for locals at the margin.
The proper way forward is to address the supply directly (i.e. stop massive importing of foreign labor, and allow wages and overall cost of living to rise).
Clearly our govt is not interested in doing that.
Michael Chan is just a greedy bastard. He has no qualms paying himself a fat salary every year, but is queasy about paying his workers a decent wage.
Our PAP leaders show initiative and courage in paying themselves millions, but think that putting in place a mininum wage for low-income earners as extravagent or costly for businesses.
Unethical business owners have no qualms changing cars every year, buying second homes or just throwing their money away at KTV lounges, but will pinch every penny when it comes to paying their workers a decent salary.
You bastards go burn in hell!
Profits are NOT hurt by minimum wage laws.
The problem lies with management being grossly overpaid. The top leaders of industries in most countries are paid salaries and bonuses at least 30-40 times the annual income of average workers.
Many workers have problems paying the rent and bills for one home, but the top elites have 3 homes and 4 cars easily.
Corporate profits will not be hurt by minimum wages, as long as the increased wage bill is borne by the elites.
For too long, they have enjoyed a fat salary at the expense of low-income workers, who generally do not have a fair share in corporate profits.
The PAP would rather give free money to businesses in the form of job credits than directly to underpaid workers and the unemployed. Has anyone noticed the number of new luxury cars on the roads after the job credit scheme was implemented?
Given the overwhelming evidence, if you still think government's priority is Singaporeans, you must be deluded, living in your own world.
The difference between HK and Singapore is the political. We have to look past the labels. Having a a GE every 5 years doesn't make one a democratic country. Obviously, the HK government respect's its citizens' rights more. Singapore just views requests from its citizens as nuisance to be ignored and discouraged. They view most citizens too stupid for their own good or smart asses that need to be smacked down and put in their places.
Billionaires in HK have no money to support the minimum wage, but have money to fly private jets to Singapore to pick up durians.
Anyone who often reads financial statements of companies knows that the bulk of company costs goes to salaries - salaries of its top executives, and not to rank-and-file employees.
I suppose after introducing minimum wage laws, Michael Chan will no longer be the 35th richest guy in HK. He probably will drop to 45th richest instead. My heart aches for him. Big loss!
Maybe we ask the wooden Senile Minister (whose wife happen to think S$600K p.a. salary is just peanuts) whether having a minimum wage bill is good constructive criticism ?
I just wonder how many coffins does our MM need to buy with that S$2M+ yearly salary that he gets when he finally kicked the bucket ?
I never understood how economists can shamefully argue that a minimum wage would lead to inflation and massive loss of profits and jobs fleeing our land to Vietnam or Indonesia?
Today, I read that a director of an insurance agency can splurge on holidays and luxuries. On other days, I read of well-heeled executives who can buy new condos. I read of billionaires who can send private jets to buy durians.
If rich people can be paid so excessively, then it is clear that they are earning excessively at the expense of the lower-income people.
I have friends who head insurance agencies, and they too confess that they earn that much not because their sales are good, but because they are creaming off commissions from the sales of their top agents, who are in turn, paid excessive commissions for selling financial products.
Your financial products pay you less than 3% return because most of your money goes to paying the top executives, who earn close to a million a year.
If not for paying the top people excessive pay, you would be getting better returns, and poorer people will be getting more decent salaries.
Lucky,
once a upon a time HK and Spore were under British rule. Noticed how far HK has progressed since
1997 inspite the fact Communist China is their lord and master.
Now take a look at S'pore under LKY and his PAP after 50 Years.
One BullShit political system with a father and son at the helm plus countless stooges/dummies with no independent minds.
These PAP scums are shameless, using tax payers money to ensure they have Minimum Wages themselves in $million$ !
Dear all,
I agree with some of what you have shared. Please allow me to share with you a personal experience. This boss told the employees that business was not so good as last year.
Therefore no bonuses for that year. However unknown to the employees, this same boss in that same year bought a bentley and a Rolls Royce. Total cost is at least $1.8 million. The RR was at least $1 mil and bentley was at least $800k.
I honestly think that that person should have given the bonus but the company belongs to that person.
In newspaper or tv, you will read about how minimum wage can increase costs for businesses.
But what do I see with my own eyes? Have the newspaper and tv ever asked why the whole boss family MUST drive luxury cars??? Even when the child was in poly, the present was a Ferrari!
Before any rich people cry foul about high costs due to minimum wage, can they at least cut the cost from their own sky high salaries???
A gini coefficient of higher than 0.5 can lead to riots on the street. Do we really want to see this? We must vote correctly to correct the current imbalance. If not our children will pay a high price for our cowardice.
Cheers
Economist with a heart
Dear Economist
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We must vote correctly to correct the current imbalance. If not our children will pay a high price for our cowardice.
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Who is "we"?
Lucky is rich!
It does not matter who runs the country.
They want to admit 100,000 more foreigners? China and India's economic growth are slowing down, European stock market has tanked, pulling down any hope of US economy recovering with it. SIN is lucky it made 15% growth this year (of course the rich and the govt are the one to benefit most from it). Next year won't be so easy and smooth... we'll be lucky if we grow by 7%, and what happens to those 100,000 foreigners? Not all will leave right away if they lose their jobs - they will compete with locals for their jobs. Siow liao.
BTW, they have passed a law to have a minimum wage, but the figure hasn't been decided yet. I quote:
Officials said the law will take effect next year, and a government-appointed task group is expected to propose a minimum wage level in the coming months.
Anyway, if anyone would consider that HK Legco has done way better than Singapore, then it is time they read up on all the news surrounding the recent protests - from the building of the high speed rail to election reforms. On top of that, the underlying resentment over the runaway property prices.
The reality of the situation is, most rich or highly paid people are mobile. If employers in Singapore are not willing to pay them what they think they deserve, they can move to another country. Singapore government wants to keep these people so have to give in to their interests.
Poor or poorly paid people have limited mobility. They are stuck in Singapore even if doing the same jobs in other First World countries pay 3 - 4 times what they are getting in Singapore.
Given the circumstances and especially the lack of threat to their continuing rule, I don't think anything will change. The poor have no voice, the middle class are either cowed or apathetic and the rich call the shots. Even in low tax country like Singapore, the more tax you pay, the more you are heard.
The minimum wage has not been set. In fact it will be decided by a group of people selected by the non-elected government. Somewhere between HKD23-HKD33.
Anyway, I think in the UK they have a minimum wage bill but people are still being paid under that amount.
Minimum wage bill or not, there will be ways to beat the system~
"no country for poor man" at 19/7/10 08:42 wrote: "Poor or poorly paid people have limited mobility. "
Not true across the board. Staff nurses are poorly paid, with starting pay of $1.6K, but they are very mobile. That's why Singapore keep churning out nurses but still not enough. Because we don't pay them enough to stay in Singapore.
In that case, good for them. Go where they are appreciated more. Staying put and hoping the system will change means condeming oneself and one's children to a bleak future. For those who are mobile and find life in Singapore unbearable should consider other countries that give better opportunities. If one is not mobile, one should at least ensure that one's children get the right skills to be mobile.
to anon 13.27
Minimum wage bill or not, there will be ways to beat the system~
well, jail or no jail, people will still commit crimes?!!
having a minimum order means that the govt is serious in looking after the welfare of people. and so our million dollar $$$$ ministers are supposed to be the best, they can surely close of loop holes.
Based on the HK minimum wage, every worker doing the jobs listed will earn $1326. Which is more than what they are earning now. Come election time, we should provide this information to every low wage earner and ask him to think twice as his vote pays the Ministers more but not himself