Foreigners & FT are in Singapore to earn money only
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
All foreigners, PR workers.
Pay a social security tax instead of CPF.
A CPF can be withdrawn and all the accumulated "contribution" will be lost once a foreigner/PR returns to their homeland.
The social security tax is a tax, so no refunding to people who leaves. The money must be put to funding senior citizens' retirement payouts.
To be fair, the Social security tax account should be convertible to a regular CPF once the foreigner takes up citizenship.
If the government wants to insist that foreign imports contributes to Singapore's society... then this wat they can implement.
The gahmen needs to stop farting through their mouths ...Show us the money !
This is a great idea.
I like it that foreigners should contribute more to society (thru such a tax), as they don't have to serve NS for example.
Currently, it seems more beneficial to be a foreigner than to be a citizen in our own country, which is very unfortunate...
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
All foreigners, PR workers.
Pay a social security tax instead of CPF.
A CPF can be withdrawn and all the accumulated "contribution" will be lost once a foreigner/PR returns to their homeland.
The social security tax is a tax, so no refunding to people who leaves. The money must be put to funding senior citizens' retirement payouts.
To be fair, the Social security tax account should be convertible to a regular CPF once the foreigner takes up citizenship.
If the government wants to insist that foreign imports contributes to Singapore's society... then this wat they can implement.
The gahmen needs to stop farting through their mouths ...Show us the money !
But sista, wouldn't it be better to impose higher income tax on them. Just take my bangala cleaners here, no skill, levy at $200 going to increase another $100 more soon, basic paid $600, overtime about $200 more for staying up late to clean the floor, so basically, if the levy goes $300, I would hv to pay $1100 + lodging $100 = $1200 in total for an unskill bangala, and $300 went to govt, on top of that, govt tax them about $240 per year, so in all, govt would had take in $320 per month, and just imagine, that if the bangala spent and also need to fly home,..all these other Gst and taxation will cost them another $150 per year with no rebate. So, there is alot of money for govt to take from FW just by approving a work permit.They are already contributing in term of work and spending here, which in turn help to churn the economy. For a state like singapore to become rich and vibrant, you need to help your surrounding region to prosper too, once their citizens are richer, they spent, be more educated and end up a win win situation for all of us.
On the contrary, as per above case, my cost of employing a bangala can cost me $1200+ airfare/year = $1800 in total. Just wondering, why i dun employ a local and pay him $2000 instead?
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????why have humans??use robots or get engineers to design robots or design place better so dont need much maintenance.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
But sista, wouldn't it be better to impose higher income tax on them. Just take my bangala cleaners here, no skill, levy at $200 going to increase another $100 more soon, basic paid $600, overtime about $200 more for staying up late to clean the floor, so basically, if the levy goes $300, I would hv to pay $1100 + lodging $100 = $1200 in total for an unskill bangala, and $300 went to govt, on top of that, govt tax them about $240 per year, so in all, govt would had take in $320 per month, and just imagine, that if the bangala spent and also need to fly home,..all these other Gst and taxation will cost them another $150 per year with no rebate. So, there is alot of money for govt to take from FW just by approving a work permit.They are already contributing in term of work and spending here, which in turn help to churn the economy. For a state like singapore to become rich and vibrant, you need to help your surrounding region to prosper too, once their citizens are richer, they spent, be more educated and end up a win win situation for all of us.
On the contrary, as per above case, my cost of employing a bangala can cost me $1200+ airfare/year = $1800 in total. Just wondering, why i dun employ a local and pay him $2000 instead?
"On the contrary, as per above case, my cost of employing a bangala can cost me $1200+ airfare/year = $1800 in total. Just wondering, why i dun employ a local and pay him $2000 instead?" - beats me too... now why would you even bother with a foreigner ? Do you have a foreign quota to meet ? LOL.
anyway......
sista angel, the social security tax will not affect foreign workers in the lower bracket, because their income is not very high. A percentage of a small number is negligible.
Social security tax will affect only the higher income foreign earners/talents. Those that has a substantial CHUNK of money to be removed from our system should they choose to go.
To kill two birds with one stone.
The social security will be one more reason why the foreign talents choose not to leave.If they stay , they don't lose anything, they can enjoy their retirement like any native Singaporean. They become one of us.
If they choose to leave, our citizens will benefit from them leaving anyway. So no love lost.
Letting foreigners take their CPF when they leave is obviously a lose-lose situation for Singaporean and our gahmen. I just wonder why they even allow it in the first place.
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Sista,
I understand, its kind of a trend for employers in singapore to stick to the stigma of employing foreigners, it will be funny today if a employer is to have a full Singaporean workforce. Kind of a fashion.
Basically for my entertaining service side, the quota is 1 is to 1, meaning you have to employ a singaporean then you can employ a foreigner, no level restriction. For manufacturing, it can be 1 to 3, heavy industrials will have a higher ratio of 1 to 5, and i heard for seamen or harbour crews, it is 1 singaporean is to 9 foreigners, meaning a singapore employer can make himself as an employee and employ 9 foreigners to run his lounge or boats services.
Singapore govt term CPF as a social safety net or your so call security, which ever way, it is the same, and CPF had serve us well until recently. The laws in CPF indicated that a foreigner who contribute to CPF and then decided to withdrew all of it to return to his own country, will not be able to apply for job in singapore again, he can only come as a social visitor/tourist.
There can hardly be 2 systems of security netn running a country, it complicate things further, more over, with high income as per what you said, these are the upper end FTs which the govt embrace them dearly, and in fact, more flexibility are given to them so as to attract them, but introducing a new social security law will undermine our govt plan.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Sista,
I understand, its kind of a trend for employers in singapore to stick to the stigma of employing foreigners, it will be funny today if a employer is to have a full Singaporean workforce. Kind of a fashion.
Basically for my entertaining service side, the quota is 1 is to 1, meaning you have to employ a singaporean then you can employ a foreigner, no level restriction. For manufacturing, it can be 1 to 3, heavy industrials will have a higher ratio of 1 to 5, and i heard for seamen or harbour crews, it is 1 singaporean is to 9 foreigners, meaning a singapore employer can make himself as an employee and employ 9 foreigners to run his lounge or boats services.
Singapore govt term CPF as a social safety net or your so call security, which ever way, it is the same, and CPF had serve us well until recently. The laws in CPF indicated that a foreigner who contribute to CPF and then decided to withdrew all of it to return to his own country, will not be able to apply for job in singapore again, he can only come as a social visitor/tourist.
There can hardly be 2 systems of security netn running a country, it complicate things further, more over, with high income as per what you said, these are the upper end FTs which the govt embrace them dearly, and in fact, more flexibility are given to them so as to attract them, but introducing a new social security law will undermine our govt plan.
By the time a foreigner is ready to return to his own country, he is probably ready for his cushy retirement in his country, it wouldn't matter if he comes visit as a tourist or not. The world is big, unless he has permanent families in Singapore to visit, I doubt he will be interested to come back even as a tourist again. So giving up that ability to work here again is not a big deal to them.
In the USA where I work now, we have a 2 system retirement savings.
One is the social security. When we reach retirement age, we can choose to take it earlier for a lower payout or defer it later for a larger payout. IF we leave the country, we don't get anything back.
And the other one is known as ROTH/IRAn ( personal retirement account). This is our personal retirement fund which we defer our income into and only pay tax as we withdrew it during retirement. Much like the CPF in Singapore. except we have personal control over the money.
So you see, it is not possible, the question is, why is our government so reluctant to implement it ? Are they just being lazy ?
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
By the time a foreigner is ready to return to his own country, he is probably ready for his cushy retirement in his country, it wouldn't matter if he comes visit as a tourist or not. The world is big, unless he has permanent families in Singapore to visit, I doubt he will be interested to come back even as a tourist again. So giving up that ability to work here again is not a big deal to them.
In the USA where I work now, we have a 2 system retirement savings.
One is the social security. When we reach retirement age, we can choose to take it earlier for a lower payout or defer it later for a larger payout. IF we leave the country, we don't get anything back.
And the other one is known as ROTH/IRAn ( personal retirement account). This is our personal retirement fund which we defer our income into and only pay tax as we withdrew it during retirement. Much like the CPF in Singapore. except we have personal control over the money.
So you see, it is not possible, the question is, why is our government so reluctant to implement it ? Are they just being lazy ?
Sista,
First of all, US is not Singapore, US can attract top talents cream without much problem, and as singapore are trying hard to attract the 2nd or 3rd tier talents of the world, Singapore cannot set rules and regulations that undermine the attraction.
Lazy can be true tho, cos more adminstration need to be done.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Sista,
First of all, US is not Singapore, US can attract top talents cream without much problem, and as singapore are trying hard to attract the 2nd or 3rd tier talents of the world, Singapore cannot set rules and regulations that undermine the attraction.
Lazy can be true tho, cos more adminstration need to be done.
With the way our system is set up, we are only attracting the TRANSIENTS.
An additional 5-8% SS tax on top of CPF is better than them trying to survive in their own country.
If they don't come to Singapore, where will they go ? If they can get into US/Europe or any other third world country, they won't be coming to Singapore.
So give this little island a little bit more credits ya.
Ok, so you are against taxing them.
How about we bind them to the same rules as a local ?
They are only allowed to make withdrawals upon the same retirement age as Singaporeans and be subjected to the same minimum sum and whatever restrictions ? Fair right ?
The government managed to plug one bleeding nostrils with higher retirement age and stricter rules for Singaporeans. It's time they plug the other nostril too.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
All foreigners, PR workers.
Pay a social security tax instead of CPF.
A CPF can be withdrawn and all the accumulated "contribution" will be lost once a foreigner/PR returns to their homeland.
The social security tax is a tax, so no refunding to people who leaves. The money must be put to funding senior citizens' retirement payouts.
To be fair, the Social security tax account should be convertible to a regular CPF once the foreigner takes up citizenship.
If the government wants to insist that foreign imports contributes to Singapore's society... then this wat they can implement.
The gahmen needs to stop farting through their mouths ...Show us the money !
Good idea...but my take is that SG policy makers have a different ways of looking at the problems....and solvings it.
First the problems....I think Govt views the problem of CPF payout as a short fall of people entering work force and the depleting populations. They know that they can't stop citizens from leaving SG in the global economies.
But if they can boost the interim of work force by importing foreigners, they solved aging populations and eventual CPF payout in near terms. The Govt knows that foreigners can take CPF out and leave the country but that is also the incentives for foreigners to take up jobs in Singapore to fill the short term financial gap.
They probably maintain a near 1 million foreigners as substitution population. So long as inflow of CPF fund is larger than outflow; there are surplus. Also the 3 percent interest in CPF is an after Tax amt.
In an interview with charles Rose LKY mention about the chinese does it with COLD surgical precision in treatment of social changes. I guess our govt has pick up a few lesson from them. Of course the chinese govt does not have elections as political consequences but only a few street protest that are easily crushed by military police. I just hope that in SG, we can applied election as a pressure to counter undersirable social policies.
I still view that at the end of the day our govt does not have the political "Will" to solve the primary reason for depleting population and refuse to acknowledge that their policy drive citizens out of their country. Change is thus needed at the political level.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Good idea...but my take is that SG policy makers have a different ways of looking at the problems....and solvings it.
First the problems....I think Govt views the problem of CPF payout as a short fall of people entering work force and the depleting populations. They know that they can't stop citizens from leaving SG in the global economies.
But if they can boost the interim of work force by importing foreigners, they solved aging populations and eventual CPF payout in near terms. The Govt knows that foreigners can take CPF out and leave the country but that is also the incentives for foreigners to take up jobs in Singapore to fill the short term financial gap.
They probably maintain a near 1 million foreigners as substitution population. So long as inflow of CPF fund is larger than outflow; there are surplus. Also the 3 percent interest in CPF is an after Tax amt.
In an interview with charles Rose LKY mention about the chinese does it with COLD surgical precision in treatment of social changes. I guess our govt has pick up a few lesson from them. Of course the chinese govt does not have elections as political consequences but only a few street protest that are easily crushed by military police. I just hope that in SG, we can applied election as a pressure to counter undersirable social policies.
I still view that at the end of the day our govt does not have the political "Will" to solve the primary reason for depleting population and refuse to acknowledge that their policy drive citizens out of their country. Change is thus needed at the political level.
Have we ever considered that one day, there may be an exodus of foreign labor, will the withdrawals of such magnitudes cripple our retirement system ? Is there a fall back ?
Does our govmen tax CPF withdrawals of these leaving foreigners ?
Is the interest accumulated retained ?
As long as we continue the current policy of lenient withdrawal without any penalty, the surplus we built up today will translate into deficit in time to come. Because we need to give them back what they saved in CPF, PLUS the interest they accrued, do we not ?
Yes indeed, we need change. Fortunately for the younger generation, the old man ain't gonna live forever.
His passing will make it easier for change... it would be in his advantage to hold the election sooner than later.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Have we ever considered that one day, there may be an exodus of foreign labor, will the withdrawals of such magnitudes cripple our retirement system ? Is there a fall back ?
Does our govmen tax CPF withdrawals of these leaving foreigners ?
Is the interest accumulated retained ?
As long as we continue the current policy of lenient withdrawal without any penalty, the surplus we built up today will translate into deficit in time to come. Because we need to give them back what they saved in CPF, PLUS the interest they accrued, do we not ?
Yes indeed, we need change. Fortunately for the younger generation, the old man ain't gonna live forever.
His passing will make it easier for change... it would be in his advantage to hold the election sooner than later.
... : ) yeah thats why there is a withdrawer limits and its getting higher every few years. and Singaporean is the suckers.
So Why would Singaporean stayed and lived in Singapore and let govt take the money. The cycle continued.
So long as they don't solved the root problems of addressing Singaporean needs of Housing and opportunities these problems will continue it is still a cycle.
To them we are just numbers under their Cold Surgical Steel.
Ironically we are so small a cities that we can't have basic policies with human compassion in the society as compared to the States.
Good night.
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I am sure everyone wants to make money and pay none of the responsibilities in getting there. Most FT/PR will not volunteer to do NS because they feel they are here only to make money but without the passion for the Singapore itself. In other words they are mercenaries. I still dont understand why the Government do not take this in to their mindset. All they think about is making profits by keeping salaries low and production high and getting more foreign corporations in by offering lower operating costs. Furthermore they are lowering the standards of pay to Singaporeans who have to live here and fight here. With the current standards of living rising, Ordinary Singaporeans can barely make a living and sustain a family with bills and housing to pay for. The Singaporean Government is responsible for driving out Singaporeans who just want to live a comfortable life but instead having to compete with FT/PR who are willing to take lesser pay, , longer working hours and no NS commitment. Who will the companies take? Is there a Singaporean first policy? In the end of the day its the one who are the cheapest to hire and easier to manipulate. This country will crumble in a state of war if this keeps up. I dont see many Singaporeans willing to take a bullet for this country if the country itself does not value its own people.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
As posted by angel7030"I like to some devil advocation at times, just imagine, if ALL foreigners are asked to leave now..."
Typical PAP-style threats. "If you vote for the opposition, Singaporeans will become maids and laborers"
Not to mention atrocious English
No one talked about getting ALL foreigners to leave. Instead, we should look at allowing only foreigners that pass a stringent criteria to work in SG.
We should remove cheap labor so that useless businessmen like angel7030 be made to think about innovation, rather than allowing such immature business people to depend on cheap labor, and then continue to defend the blatant policies of the govt.
ROFL..... I'm actually pretty neutral to Angel7030 as I think she has her right to voice her opinions be it serious or just to pass the time... however...
This response is 10 on the Richter Scale lol.... bloody Tsunami.... full marks Soul you at least gave me some entertainment today.
Kind Regards
Genie
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
... : ) yeah thats why there is a withdrawer limits and its getting higher every few years. and Singaporean is the suckers.
So Why would Singaporean stayed and lived in Singapore and let govt take the money. The cycle continued.
So long as they don't solved the root problems of addressing Singaporean needs of Housing and opportunities these problems will continue it is still a cycle.
To them we are just numbers under their Cold Surgical Steel.
Ironically we are so small a cities that we can't have basic policies with human compassion in the society as compared to the States.
Good night.
I sometimes felt that it is really sad when a local cannot withdraw their CPF n they got to get to paid annuity a month.
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Originally posted by will4:
I sometimes felt that it is really sad when a local cannot withdraw their CPF n they got to get to paid annuity a month.
I cancel off whatever insurance they tried to impose on resident. i just don't see that as benefiting.....and meeting financial needs. -
Originally posted by will4:
I sometimes felt that it is really sad when a local cannot withdraw their CPF n they got to get to paid annuity a month.
alway remember, CPF is a fund, not your saving bank account that you can deposit and draw as and when you like ya. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
alway remember, CPF is a fund, not your saving bank account that you can deposit and draw as and when you like ya.dun be an idiot la. Why repeat the extremely obvious.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
dun be an idiot la. Why repeat the extremely obvious.
so that people dun keep think about drawing out their CPF monies mah...u stupid rock! -
Originally posted by angel7030:
so that people dun keep think about drawing out their CPF monies mah...u stupid rock!
That is the job of the govt, you govt of PAP??? YOu better take care of your own backside, now the issue of human trafficking of prostitutes is on. -
saw that fucker in speaker corner, chit chat and soccer only
military zero why cannot talk cock what
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Obviously what, if not what you expect? Them to pick up a gun and fight for your country when in trouble? Lanjiao!
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Originally posted by hasene:
That is the job of the govt, you govt of PAP??? YOu better take care of your own backside, now the issue of human trafficking of prostitutes is on.
my backside??? why u look at my backside??? -
Originally posted by angel7030:
my backside??? why u look at my backside???
What standard of English do you have ? Kindergarten, primary? That is a figure of speech, you goon. You sound like you fail English. -
, everyday scold me...me not english gal mah. -
US has 300 million pp. Singapore has 5 million. So effect of white or other FT is apparent here