Foreigners & FT are in Singapore to earn money only
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It is true that you can't compare our forefather who migrated here with the current migrants, because there wasn't a Singapore nation then. But if China and Indian were to prosper after WW2, the immigrant situation in Singapore, or even the whole south east asia would be different.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with going places to make money. What is wrong is the double standard used to criticize the foreigners in singapore, and the hypocritical excuses used, thinking of putting one on a higher morale ground.
are those singaporeans in oz, us, and canada settled down and have become local citizens, prepared to fight and die for oz, us and canada? or are they still holding on to the singapore passport? why are they not taking roots in their new countries which are so magnimous in providing them with benefits that are not available in Singapore? are the local oz, yankee and canadian not complaining that these people who are there to take over their jobs?
are these overseas singaporeans, with foreign pr, ready to come back and fight for singapore, in times of war, never mind which government is in charge?
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I am truly surprised that in this given day, someone would think that it is because a country is magnanimous that a person can work in that country and receive the benefits.
Most of us who are overseas have the opportunity to work away from SG coz the specific country that brings us in, sees the benefit of having our skillset in that country. It's a win-win situation for the individual and that country.
I am pretty amused by the kind of thinking present in this forum, that people who work overseas owe that country they work in a debt, when in fact, its a win win situation, where both parties benefit in a collaboration. To put it bluntly, we are making use of each other, if you want to see in the most negative sense.
The crux of the issue is bringing too much foreign labor into a country such that it stifles the local population of that country. It's a policy problem, NOT a problem with those individuals that move to that country to work.
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I'm in Indonesia because I can offer the country what locals cannot. On the contrary, there are many foreigners in Sg stealing local jobs because they are cheaper.
It's funny that just because I have permanent residence in Indo, I'm obligated to fight for them. Hahaha, very laughable cos even the chinese who have made it rich here will have no intention to defend the land when attacked.
I'm here to suck the country's money, cos why? I contribute to their economy, I'm needed here, so I've got every right to do so.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
It is true that you can't compare our forefather who migrated here with the current migrants, because there wasn't a Singapore nation then. But if China and Indian were to prosper after WW2, the immigrant situation in Singapore, or even the whole south east asia would be different.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with going places to make money. What is wrong is the double standard used to criticize the foreigners in singapore, and the hypocritical excuses used, thinking of putting one on a higher morale ground.
are those singaporeans in oz, us, and canada settled down and have become local citizens, prepared to fight and die for oz, us and canada? or are they still holding on to the singapore passport? why are they not taking roots in their new countries which are so magnimous in providing them with benefits that are not available in Singapore? are the local oz, yankee and canadian not complaining that these people who are there to take over their jobs?
are these overseas singaporeans, with foreign pr, ready to come back and fight for singapore, in times of war, never mind which government is in charge?
You mention about fight for your host countries....i'm not sure these days conventional war between nations mean anything typically it take 3rd generations to fully adopt Full identity of the host country. It make it even more acute with the current movement of people globally.
I think eventual human conflict is going to be for Causes or Ideas more national identity. War on Terror brings out contradiction more than ever it cut thru national boundaries.
I think the notion that we bring in closer ethnicity may not solve the national identity problems but rather shared ideas and values are much better forged.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
we are talking about the earlier 21st century...can't even smell independent day...what the hell are u talking??
why don't you go and work with Ah Bien for independent of Taiwan..first before you argue for Singapore.....cause we are already independent.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
It is true that you can't compare our forefather who migrated here with the current migrants, because there wasn't a Singapore nation then. But if China and Indian were to prosper after WW2, the immigrant situation in Singapore, or even the whole south east asia would be different.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with going places to make money. What is wrong is the double standard used to criticize the foreigners in singapore, and the hypocritical excuses used, thinking of putting one on a higher morale ground.
are those singaporeans in oz, us, and canada settled down and have become local citizens, prepared to fight and die for oz, us and canada? or are they still holding on to the singapore passport? why are they not taking roots in their new countries which are so magnimous in providing them with benefits that are not available in Singapore? are the local oz, yankee and canadian not complaining that these people who are there to take over their jobs?
are these overseas singaporeans, with foreign pr, ready to come back and fight for singapore, in times of war, never mind which government is in charge?
"If China and Indian were to prosper after WW2, the immigrant situation in Singapore, or even the whole south east asia would be different." I would say "Yes' and "No".
Well, can you say the Singaporeans who settled down overseas do not intergrate themselves into the local communities?
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
why don't you go and work with Ah Bien for independent of Taiwan..first before you argue for Singapore.....cause we are already independent.
Politically, your govt are independent, but socially, your people still depend on yr govt alots and economically, you bread and butter still depend on the global economy. So, are you truly independent?? -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Politically, your govt are independent, but socially, your people still depend on yr govt alots and economically, you bread and butter still depend on the global economy. So, are you truly independent??don;t be goon , even Taiwan also needs to depends on external forces for their economy.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
I am truly surprised that in this given day, someone would think that it is because a country is magnanimous that a person can work in that country and receive the benefits.
Most of us who are overseas have the opportunity to work away from SG coz the specific country that brings us in, sees the benefit of having our skillset in that country. It's a win-win situation for the individual and that country.
I am pretty amused by the kind of thinking present in this forum, that people who work overseas owe that country they work in a debt, when in fact, its a win win situation, where both parties benefit in a collaboration. To put it bluntly, we are making use of each other, if you want to see in the most negative sense.
The crux of the issue is bringing too much foreign labor into a country such that it stifles the local population of that country. It's a policy problem, NOT a problem with those individuals that move to that country to work.
The mode of exchange is money vs work, work can be physical or mental, money motivate the work, and the condition and policies and environment gives peoples the option to move or stay. It is ok to migrate, as human are suppose to have the instinct of migrating to greener pasture, or so called a new life. And it is ok to stay put if your find that here is good enuf, so it is a kind of people choice, and as democracy we are, we have to respect that choice.When peoples moves, activities and competition increases, at the initial stage, this can lead to dissatisfactory of the locals who are the recipents of immigrants, a very common sign of human territorial instinct, you got to let it have a cool off period, get settled and you can see the growth in it leading to win win situation. And now, as singapore embrace new immigrant to push up it population, replace it old age population and also to keep the economic vibrant with enuf workforce and talents in it, the locals will tends to disagree strongly, that is human nature.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
The mode of exchange is money vs work, work can be physical or mental, money motivate the work, and the condition and policies and environment gives peoples the option to move or stay. It is ok to migrate, as human are suppose to have the instinct of migrating to greener pasture, or so called a new life. And it is ok to stay put if your find that here is good enuf, so it is a kind of people choice, and as democracy we are, we have to respect that choice.When peoples moves, activities and competition increases, at the initial stage, this can lead to dissatisfactory of the locals who are the recipents of immigrants, a very common sign of human territorial instinct, you got to let it have a cool off period, get settled and you can see the growth in it leading to win win situation. And now, as singapore embrace new immigrant to push up it population, replace it old age population and also to keep the economic vibrant with enuf workforce and talents in it, the locals will tends to disagree strongly, that is human nature.
I wish you stop trying to be clever here. I can stand stupidity, but what I cant stand is people trying to be clever.
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can't stand, sit now lah...cannot stand still want to court gal...haiz, so lame
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yes I am lame, but not as lamest as your replies. but then you are entitled to your own opinions and that explains why
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Originally posted by angel7030:
can't stand, sit now lah...cannot stand still want to court gal...haiz, so lame
YOu poot poot here. YOur sai stinks leh -
how u know my sai stink???
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Originally posted by angel7030:
can't stand, sit now lah...cannot stand still want to court gal...haiz, so lame
could you please try to be coherent and logical in your replies and properly link from one issue to the next. have you actually thought them out properly or you are just haphazardly typed whatever it spring to your mind. its not quantity but quality as well. you can typed 1000 words of thrash and hogwash, but one sentence of 10-15 words will be suffice if it actually talked sense and coherent.
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to be logic and coherent, for you, just dun read my post, otherwise, i also cannot help you. Thanks
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Originally posted by angel7030:
to be logic and coherent, for you, just dun read my post, otherwise, i also cannot help you. Thanks
No I didnt read all of your reply and I cant be bothered to, I just glance through quickly your first-two sentence and know its a failed. maybe you need to read more first in order to know the subject matter well enough to comment and analyse.
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or you are a troll, maybe you know. anyway you can say anything you like here, if it pleases you, I dun care.
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yeh 7030, most times I read ur posts....I have to say it's mostly hot air and you are just regurgitating old shit from your mouth.Your posts remind me of an ah lian attempting to write a university dissertation and ends up with an epic fail.
You keep mentioning you are a businesswoman, your pubs, your girls etc. In the first place, I dun think you are even a chio bu. Woman maybe but definitely not a chio one lol. And u dun have wealth worth flaunting, i mean come on...I just attended a private dinner with a multi-millionaire last week. He is the owner of a conglomerate and hires 7000 workers. He drives a simple suzuki when he could easily afford tens of ferraris. And people like you talking about your private condos and terraces....haha, u are a piece of shit really.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
You mention about fight for your host countries....i'm not sure these days conventional war between nations mean anything typically it take 3rd generations to fully adopt Full identity of the host country. It make it even more acute with the current movement of people globally.
I think eventual human conflict is going to be for Causes or Ideas more national identity. War on Terror brings out contradiction more than ever it cut thru national boundaries.
I think the notion that we bring in closer ethnicity may not solve the national identity problems but rather shared ideas and values are much better forged.
Agree, closer ethnicity may not, in fact, it does not, solve the national identity problems, but it is easier than people with diverse ethnicities. Today we are not talking about the chinese from PRC, or the indian, sri lankan, there are also philippinos, myanmese, indonesian. We must also recognize that the chinese from taiwan, HK, malaysia, indonesia are different, even among the chinese in singapore, there are english and chinese speaking. and from india, there are hindi and tamil. emphasizing ethnicity definitely does not help in forging national identity.
also agree with you that we need to forge a national identity based on shared ideas and values. What are our values? imho, we are appreciative of people who contribute to our nation and society, regardless of their ethnicity, or when did they land themselves here; we are tolerant to differences in races and religion; we call singapore our home, even though there are greener pastures outside.
all these bashing, cursing, bitching, moaning about FT, are not values of singapore.
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
"If China and Indian were to prosper after WW2, the immigrant situation in Singapore, or even the whole south east asia would be different." I would say "Yes' and "No".
Well, can you say the Singaporeans who settled down overseas do not intergrate themselves into the local communities?
I am not talking about intergrating into the local communities. Canada, oz and the us are so big, you don't really need to intergrate like living like an angmoh, except when you live in cities. you can live in china town of san fransco for months, a life that is more of a chinese than in singapore, without knowing how to speak english. Go to the shopping mall called aberdeen in richmond, vancouver, you will hear announcement in cantonese and mandarin, no english, and you can hardly see a caucasian in the area.
But, will the people there call their new country HOME? do they hold the american green card just for convenience, and give up when they have to declare all their assets in HK to the US government for tax purposes. how many are still holding on to their singapore, or malaysian passports after years living there, just in case?
I feel very proud being singaporean when I met many singaporean who hold on to their singaporean identity, but when people come here and bash the new immigrants who are contributing to the local economy, doing jobs that nobody want to do, I find these singaporean double standard, and hypocrite.
worse, there are nuts who think that singaporean must speak english, so the PRC who cannot speak proper english cannot be singaporean.
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I would say that FTs are never that loyal to their home country.
1) If they are that loyal to their home country - why should they even 'betray' their home country and come to a foreign land to make money? They should have find ways and means to improve their home country should they be that loyal.
I would say they're selfish. For their own gain and interest, they come to Singapore and make money. They are neither loyal nor 'faithful'. However, that apply to some FTs, not all.
I agree that some FT are here in Singapore to earn money only however I would beg to differ that not all FTs are like that.
Imagine a poor farmer boy in China, he attends school and make his way to the top (in term of academic). He wanted to improve the life of his and his family hence he finds work opportunities in Singapore.
He comes to Singapore to work and earn money. And here we are .. Singaporeans .. complaining ..
It's a win-win situation. We need talents but they're not for FREE. Hence we pay them and offer them jobs. SHOULD SINGAPOREANS have that 'talent' - we don't even need to 'import' them.
However, Singaporeans DO have talents .. but we DEMAND too much. Should we be that humble like those FTs - take small pays at a time and get promoted etc .. those money will come to you naturally ..
In short, Singapore 'talent' workers are EXPENSIVE.
See, there are other COUNTRIES in the world that offer a even HIGHER pay for these foreign talents but WHY ARE THEY NOT IMPORTING THEM???
Think about it.
I am talking about the upper FTs - not construction workers etc.
There are cons to importing too much FTs here though ..
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
I'm in Indonesia because I can offer the country what locals cannot. On the contrary, there are many foreigners in Sg stealing local jobs because they are cheaper.
It's funny that just because I have permanent residence in Indo, I'm obligated to fight for them. Hahaha, very laughable cos even the chinese who have made it rich here will have no intention to defend the land when attacked.
I'm here to suck the country's money, cos why? I contribute to their economy, I'm needed here, so I've got every right to do so.
Agree. I am in USA coz I can contribute at a level where it has a shortage of such skillset, NOT because the country is generous
I am pretty amused by the forumer here that talks about dying for the country I work in. In these modern times, there's actually an old dinosaur here preaching old nonsense.
The problem with Singpore's foreign labor policy is that they are bringing people in to contribute what the locals can do, and in doing so, steal jobs from the locals. You only need to look at where they go to do mass recruitment to see the strategy is all about making Singapore cheaper, lousier and slower.
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Originally posted by dawnliner:
I would say that FTs are never that loyal to their home country.
1) If they are that loyal to their home country - why should they even 'betray' their home country and come to a foreign land to make money? They should have find ways and means to improve their home country should they be that loyal.
I would say they're selfish. For their own gain and interest, they come to Singapore and make money. They are neither loyal nor 'faithful'. However, that apply to some FTs, not all.
I agree that some FT are here in Singapore to earn money only however I would beg to differ that not all FTs are like that.
Imagine a poor farmer boy in China, he attends school and make his way to the top (in term of academic). He wanted to improve the life of his and his family hence he finds work opportunities in Singapore.
He comes to Singapore to work and earn money. And here we are .. Singaporeans .. complaining ..
It's a win-win situation. We need talents but they're not for FREE. Hence we pay them and offer them jobs. SHOULD SINGAPOREANS have that 'talent' - we don't even need to 'import' them.
However, Singaporeans DO have talents .. but we DEMAND too much. Should we be that humble like those FTs - take small pays at a time and get promoted etc .. those money will come to you naturally ..
In short, Singapore 'talent' workers are EXPENSIVE.
See, there are other COUNTRIES in the world that offer a even HIGHER pay for these foreign talents but WHY ARE THEY NOT IMPORTING THEM???
Think about it.
I am talking about the upper FTs - not construction workers etc.
There are cons to importing too much FTs here though ..
I don't think you even truly understand what a Foreign Talent means
A foreign talent receives pay that is equivalent or more than the $$$ that a local talent earns in that country. A foreign talent that goes to another country to work does not take lower pay. Otherwise, THAT is not a foreign talent, BUT foreign labor.
The pay I receive here is in the top bracket of American pay. I am not being paid lower than an American, otherwise, I am NOT a foreign talent here, but foreign labor.
Another thing is, you keep mentioning Singaporeans are expensive. What is your basis of comparison? Do you even understand the differences in costs of living between countries? Do you not understand that due to our cost of living, Singaporeans can never accept a pay lower than those foreign labor?
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Politically, your govt are independent, but socially, your people still depend on yr govt alots and economically, you bread and butter still depend on the global economy. So, are you truly independent??Ha....you need to read more.....
Politically Singapore has a voice and a Vote in United Nation.
Politically when Singaporean go to China to work, they get to go to send their son to international school.
Politically we get to flag our Red Passport Left Right Center in YOUR Taiwan Hum FACE.
You have to ask yourself why so many Taiwanese wants to be independents from China before you comment about Singapore being an independent statehood.