Truth about Chiam's departure from the SDP
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First, let us read what objective parties have to say about Chiam See Tong's departure from the SDP. "Conventional wisdom has it that Chee Soon Juan was the power keg that caused the SDP to break up. Chee succeed Chiam as secretary-general, and his more confrontational approach certainly drew heavier PAP fire than the SDP was used to. However, the truth behind the SDP’s downfall is a lot more complex. Internal differences were simmering before Chee appeared, and probably would have boiled over even without him. The party’s problems have more to do with its leaders’ inability to manage its own growth and success. This is the inevitable conclusion one would have to draw from the curious events of 1993. That May, Chiam resigned as secretary-general in a fit of pique, after he failed to persuade the rest of his central executive committee to censure Chee for his hunger strike. When the CEC members failed to coax him back and announced his departure to the press, Chiam proceeded to bad-mouth them openly, provoking them into holding a disciplinary hearing that expelled him from the party. The renegade MP took the CEC to court. Justice Warren Khoo said that Chiam had brought his problems upon himself, but since the party’s hearing had been carried out in an “inept manner,� the sacking was unlawful. Chiam was ordered to be reinstated as a cadre member, which he remained until he quit before the 1997 General Election." - (Cherian George’s Singapore: The Air-Conditioned Nation) "Furthermore, Chiam started to bring his own symphathizers who attempted to change the SDP constitution to prevent CEC members from holding paid positions at the town councils run by the SDP (these suggestions were thrown out by Ling after he won the SDP chairmanship). Whatever the case, the refusal by the CEC to condemn Dr Chee’s hunger strike struck a nerve with Chiam, who then immediately resigned without allowing himself to be persuaded by his own CEC to be reasonable. Not long after his resignation as Secretary-General, Chiam attacked his own party at a Singapore Press Club event, during which he said: I had to disassociate myself from people who are definitely going in the wrong direction. Nothing about being “forced out� there. Hmm." Taken from: http://dlzj.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/chiam-gate-part-deux/ Now let us examine the facts of the matter. Fact #1: Problems were already brewing between Mr Chiam and his CEC colleagues even before I had joined the SDP. This was revealed in court when he sued the SDP in 1993. Mr Chiam: "To me, the problems started in 1988, when Wong Hong Toy and about 15 other Workers' Party members joined the party...there was backbiting and other problems..." Former SDP chairman Mr Ling How Doong confirmed this: "In my view, all the troubles between Chiam and Wong Hong Toy started after the 1991 General Elections, when Wong came to help me full-time." Mr Ashleigh Seow (Mr Francis Seow's son), then a CEC member, testified: "Most people have had a difficult time with [Mr Chiam] at one time or another." Mr Seow was referring to the period between 1988-1991 and to CEC members like Messrs Jimmy Tan, Cheo Chai Chen, Francis Yong and himself. Fact #2: Mr Chiam did not like the idea of collective leadership, which is what a CEC of a political party and democracy are about. I can only wonder why he is in Parliament as an Opposition member when he is against the idea of collective leadership in the first place. By the way, Mr Lee Kuan Yew of the PAP isn't too fond of the idea of collective leadership either... Mr Chiam: "Collective leadership is nonsense." Mr Ling: "You're talking of dictatorship." Fact #3: Mr Chiam first resigned as the secretary-general of the party on 17 May 93. When the CEC refused to support his motion to censure Chee Soon Juan for going on a hunger strike, Mr Chiam tendered his resignation on the spot. Fact #4: Mr Chiam's demands to the SDP in exchange for his return to the party was undemocratic and against the party's constitution. He insisted that he would return as secretary-general only if the CEC gave him sole power to appoint and dismiss CEC and cadre members. He also wanted the SDP to sack Mr Wong Hong Toy, then vice-chairman. Fact #5: The SDP tried negotiating with Chiam See Tong and kept his resignation made on 17 May 93 under wraps for a month. Taken from: http://www.yoursdp.org/index.php/truth-about/3552-part-1-the-truth-about-chiam-see-tongs-departure Fact #6: Chiam See Tong admitted himself that he was not 'forced out'. The Straits Times quoted Mr Chiam as saying: "I had to disassociate myself from people who are definitely going in the wrong direction." He had to DISASSOCIATE. Nothing about being 'forced out'. Fact #7: Chiam See Tong broke his own oath. The attack by Mr Chiam at the SPC was especially difficult to take given that it was he, when he was secretary-general, who had made CEC members sign an oath and a deed to "prevent high-ranking officials from disparaging the party." Fact #8: 11 of the 13 CEC members voted to expel Chiam See Tong. Clearly, it wasn't Chee Soon Juan who 'ousted' Chiam. It was Chiam See Tong's own CEC members who voted in a democratic manner to expel him. Fact #9: Even after the CEC voted to expel Chiam, overtures were made by them to seek reconciliation. Chiam See Tong was the one to turn down the olive branches. Fact #10: Former High Court Judge, Warren Khoo, was quoted as saying: "It may be fairly said that [Mr Chiam] brought the disciplinary proceedings and court action on himself." Taken from: http://www.yoursdp.org/index.php/truth-about/3564-part-2-chiams-expulsion-what-really-happened Fact #11: Heavy-weight PAP members such as Goh Chok Tong and Wong Kan Seng openly supported Chiam See Tong. Fact #12: Chiam See Tong was willing to force a 3-corner fight in the 1997 General Elections, pitting the SPP against the SDP, which was not only his former party but a fellow opposition party as well. Fact #13: Chee Soon Juan behaved like a gentleman and refused to be goaded into mudslinging his fellow opposition politician when contacted by SPH. Taken from: http://www.yoursdp.org/index.php/truth-about/3569-part-3-goh-chok-tong-without-chiam-harder-to-destroy-chee In conclusion, we can safely say (without fear of defamation) that Chiam See Tong was not 'forced out' of the SDP by any one single person. Records will show that the CEC voted overwhelmingly to expel him. Also, even after Chiam See Tong announced his resignation, SDP CEC members were still willing to negotiate with him, but it was Chiam See Tong who made unreasonable demands that went against the party's constitution. And even after those demands were made, and after the CEC voted to expel him, several olive branches were extended to Chiam only to be rejected. We now know that Chiam See Tong himself made CEC members swear an oath not to criticize the SDP, but he himself broke that oath when he attacked the SDP, not in private but in front of the whole nation when he gave an interview to SPH. Throughout the whole saga, Chee Soon Juan and his party members in the SDP acted like perfect gentlemen and refused to be goaded into a mudslinging match with a fellow opposition politician. But the recent interview given by Mrs Chiam showed that the PAP was not willing to let the matter rest, and that they are perfectly willing to keep using this lie, supported partly by Mr Chiam See Tong himself, to attack the SDP. And thus, Chee Soon Juan is forced to speak up and let the truth be known. Had he maintained his silence, I am sure the PAP media will keep on using the Chiams to attack the SDP as the General Election approaches.
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whenever elections coming, they will drag out this topic to distract the public.
Pathetic this PAP.
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CSJ has not been elected as MP but CST has been elected as MP many times.
Conclusion : CST is able to relate to its supporters and get strong support while CSJ has few supporters and hence CSJ has not won a single election.
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i've always suspected that CSJ is working for PAP since this clown always shoots himself in the foot and make the opposition look bad...........seems like i wasn't wrong !................LOL
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Originally posted by Fuck PAP & Lee Kuan Yew:
whenever elections coming, they will drag out this topic to distract the public.
Pathetic this PAP.
so, you are saying that CSJ is a mole of the PAP
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Originally posted by the Bear:
so, you are saying that CSJ is a mole of the PAP
I'm saying that PAP is pathetic.
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Originally posted by Fuck PAP & Lee Kuan Yew:
I'm saying that PAP is pathetic.
we know.. but that's another topic to put that statement in..
barking like a mad dog in places where it is not meant to be only strengthen the MIW's hand
remember that...
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Originally posted by the Bear:
we know.. but that's another topic to put that statement in..
barking like a mad dog in places where it is not meant to be only strengthen the MIW's hand
remember that...
better than a coward.
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usual PAP tactic...........they know most people hate them, even civil servants hate them but what to do ? they fear for their jobs so they still vote PAP.
so PAP make the opposition look really bad and that's not difficult since they control the media (in which case, can we ever be sure who actually won the elections? )..............so the plan is to make S'poreans think that we have no choice................
now they let in more and more foreign new citizens and get PRs to be citizens so these people will vote for PAP.............but how long can they keep this up ? the new citizens will hate PAP eventually and they can only let in so many people since we're so small....................
it has gotten to the point that the devil we don't know is better than one we do know...................voting for opposition is a no-brainer..................but since PAP controls the balloting process and the media...........will we know who actually won ?
LOL...............
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Originally posted by Fuck PAP & Lee Kuan Yew:
better than a coward.
need to be smart and know wat the people really wants. -
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
.they know most people hate them, even civil servants hate them but what to do ? they fear for their jobs so they still vote PAP.
that seems irrational.
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Originally posted by sbst275:
need to be smart and know wat the people really wants.that's easy, get rid of foreigners.
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Originally posted by Fuck PAP & Lee Kuan Yew:
that seems irrational.
it's one of the reasons why the govt is the biggest employer in the country................i bet S'pore is the only country in the world whereby the civil service is the biggest employer..........!
the normal civil servants hate them for sure becoz they're the same as most S'poreans.................the high-end civil servants couldn't care less as long as they're being paid their high salaries.............
in any case, you can count on most of the civil servants to vote PAP and they will get their wife, relatives to do the same.............it's only natural.........
put it this way, would you go against your paymaster ?
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Originally posted by As romanista2001:
put it this way, would you go against your paymaster ?
PAP is PAP, civil service is civil service. They are different entities.
And why they assume that their vote will be known to PAP?
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Originally posted by As romanista2001:
it's one of the reasons why the govt is the biggest employer in the country................i bet S'pore is the only country in the world whereby the civil service is the biggest employer..........!
the normal civil servants hate them for sure becoz they're the same as most S'poreans.................the high-end civil servants couldn't care less as long as they're being paid their high salaries.............
in any case, you can count on most of the civil servants to vote PAP and they will get their wife, relatives to do the same.............it's only natural.........
put it this way, would you go against your paymaster ?
yeah, you said it all. That is life in Singapore. Sad but true.
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Originally posted by Fuck PAP & Lee Kuan Yew:
that's easy, get rid of foreigners.
YOu think it is easy to get rid of foreigners, omg! YOU not a 3 year old, are you? -
Originally posted by Dondontan:
YOu think it is easy to get rid of foreigners, omg! YOU not a 3 year old, are you?It can be done if there is a will.
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Originally posted by As romanista2001:
it's one of the reasons why the govt is the biggest employer in the country................i bet S'pore is the only country in the world whereby the civil service is the biggest employer..........!
the normal civil servants hate them for sure becoz they're the same as most S'poreans.................the high-end civil servants couldn't care less as long as they're being paid their high salaries.............
in any case, you can count on most of the civil servants to vote PAP and they will get their wife, relatives to do the same.............it's only natural.........
put it this way, would you go against your paymaster ?
A lot of them privatised liao leh.
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Originally posted by Fuck PAP & Lee Kuan Yew:
It can be done if there is a will.
You do it and post it here and tell us the outcome. -
Originally posted by Junyang700:
A lot of them privatised liao leh.
Privatised for convenience and show only. I have enough people I know from these organisations to tell everything still the same.Once went for an interview with one of the privatised one and the HR kept stressing that they want to be good citizens and is trying their best to obey the govt.
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Originally posted by Fuck PAP & Lee Kuan Yew:
PAP is PAP, civil service is civil service. They are different entities.
And why they assume that their vote will be known to PAP?
different in name only................just like when we say S'pore Govt...........we're talking about PAP............
they bribe the high-end civil servants with high pay just like what they're doing now with foreigners..........
the ''normal'' civil servants already given up on change and doesn't want to rock the boat...............especially the huge numbers employed in the uniform groups like police, SAF, civil defence..............they will vote for PAP for sure.............almost all of them...............and their families and relatives will follow, many of them afraid they'll jeopardize the careers of their relatives mah............
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Originally posted by Singa Crew:
First, let us read what objective parties have to say about Chiam See Tong’s departure from the SDP.
“Conventional wisdom has it that Chee Soon Juan was the power keg that caused the SDP to break up. Chee succeed Chiam as secretary-general, and his more confrontational approach certainly drew heavier PAP fire than the SDP was used to. However, the truth behind the SDP’s downfall is a lot more complex. Internal differences were simmering before Chee appeared, and probably would have boiled over even without him. The party’s problems have more to do with its leaders’ inability to manage its own growth and success.
This is the inevitable conclusion one would have to draw from the curious events of 1993. That May, Chiam resigned as secretary-general in a fit of pique, after he failed to persuade the rest of his central executive committee to censure Chee for his hunger strike. When the CEC members failed to coax him back and announced his departure to the press, Chiam proceeded to bad-mouth them openly, provoking them into holding a disciplinary hearing that expelled him from the party. The renegade MP took the CEC to court. Justice Warren Khoo said that Chiam had brought his problems upon himself, but since the party’s hearing had been carried out in an “inept manner,” the sacking was unlawful. Chiam was ordered to be reinstated as a cadre member, which he remained until he quit before the 1997 General Election.”
- (Cherian George’s Singapore: The Air-Conditioned Nation)
“Furthermore, Chiam started to bring his own symphathizers who attempted to change the SDP constitution to prevent CEC members from holding paid positions at the town councils run by the SDP (these suggestions were thrown out by Ling after he won the SDP chairmanship). Whatever the case, the refusal by the CEC to condemn Dr Chee’s hunger strike struck a nerve with Chiam, who then immediately resigned without allowing himself to be persuaded by his own CEC to be reasonable. Not long after his resignation as Secretary-General, Chiam attacked his own party at a Singapore Press Club event, during which he said:
I had to disassociate myself from people who are definitely going in the wrong direction.
Nothing about being “forced out” there. Hmm.”
Taken from: http://dlzj.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/chiam-gate…
Now let us examine the facts of the matter.
Fact #1: Problems were already brewing between Mr Chiam and his CEC colleagues even before I had joined the SDP. This was revealed in court when he sued the SDP in 1993.
Mr Chiam: “To me, the problems started in 1988, when Wong Hong Toy and about 15 other Workers’ Party members joined the party…there was backbiting and other problems…”
Former SDP chairman Mr Ling How Doong confirmed this: “In my view, all the troubles between Chiam and Wong Hong Toy started after the 1991 General Elections, when Wong came to help me full-time.”
Mr Ashleigh Seow (Mr Francis Seow’s son), then a CEC member, testified: “Most people have had a difficult time with [Mr Chiam] at one time or another.” Mr Seow was referring to the period between 1988-1991 and to CEC members like Messrs Jimmy Tan, Cheo Chai Chen, Francis Yong and himself.
Fact #2: Mr Chiam did not like the idea of collective leadership, which is what a CEC of a political party and democracy are about.
I can only wonder why he is in Parliament as an Opposition member when he is against the idea of collective leadership in the first place. By the way, Mr Lee Kuan Yew of the PAP isn’t too fond of the idea of collective leadership either…
Mr Chiam: “Collective leadership is nonsense.”
Mr Ling: “You’re talking of dictatorship.”
Fact #3: Mr Chiam first resigned as the secretary-general of the party on 17 May 93. When the CEC refused to support his motion to censure Chee Soon Juan for going on a hunger strike, Mr Chiam tendered his resignation on the spot.
Fact #4: Mr Chiam’s demands to the SDP in exchange for his return to the party was undemocratic and against the party’s constitution. He insisted that he would return as secretary-general only if the CEC gave him sole power to appoint and dismiss CEC and cadre members. He also wanted the SDP to sack Mr Wong Hong Toy, then vice-chairman.
Fact #5: The SDP tried negotiating with Chiam See Tong and kept his resignation made on 17 May 93 under wraps for a month.
Taken from: http://www.yoursdp.org/index.php/truth-about/35…
Fact #6: Chiam See Tong admitted himself that he was not ‘forced out’.
The Straits Times quoted Mr Chiam as saying: “I had to disassociate myself from people who are definitely going in the wrong direction.”
He had to DISASSOCIATE. Nothing about being ‘forced out’.
Fact #7: Chiam See Tong broke his own oath.
The attack by Mr Chiam at the SPC was especially difficult to take given that it was he, when he was secretary-general, who had made CEC members sign an oath and a deed to “prevent high-ranking officials from disparaging the party.”
Fact #8: 11 of the 13 CEC members voted to expel Chiam See Tong.
Clearly, it wasn’t Chee Soon Juan who ‘ousted’ Chiam. It was Chiam See Tong’s own CEC members who voted in a democratic manner to expel him.
Fact #9: Even after the CEC voted to expel Chiam, overtures were made by them to seek reconciliation. Chiam See Tong was the one to turn down the olive branches.
Fact #10: Former High Court Judge, Warren Khoo, was quoted as saying: “It may be fairly said that [Mr Chiam] brought the disciplinary proceedings and court action on himself.”
Taken from: http://www.yoursdp.org/index.php/truth-about/35…
Fact #11: Heavy-weight PAP members such as Goh Chok Tong and Wong Kan Seng openly supported Chiam See Tong.
Fact #12: Chiam See Tong was willing to force a 3-corner fight in the 1997 General Elections, pitting the SPP against the SDP, which was not only his former party but a fellow opposition party as well.
Fact #13: Chee Soon Juan behaved like a gentleman and refused to be goaded into mudslinging his fellow opposition politician when contacted by SPH.
Taken from: http://www.yoursdp.org/index.php/truth-about/35…
In conclusion, we can safely say (without fear of defamation) that Chiam See Tong was not ‘forced out’ of the SDP by any one single person. Records will show that the CEC voted overwhelmingly to expel him.
Also, even after Chiam See Tong announced his resignation, SDP CEC members were still willing to negotiate with him, but it was Chiam See Tong who made unreasonable demands that went against the party’s constitution. And even after those demands were made, and after the CEC voted to expel him, several olive branches were extended to Chiam only to be rejected.
We now know that Chiam See Tong himself made CEC members swear an oath not to criticize the SDP, but he himself broke that oath when he attacked the SDP, not in private but in front of the whole nation when he gave an interview to SPH.
Throughout the whole saga, Chee Soon Juan and his party members in the SDP acted like perfect gentlemen and refused to be goaded into a mudslinging match with a fellow opposition politician. But the recent interview given by Mrs Chiam showed that the PAP was not willing to let the matter rest, and that they are perfectly willing to keep using this lie, supported partly by Mr Chiam See Tong himself, to attack the SDP.
And thus, Chee Soon Juan is forced to speak up and let the truth be known. Had he maintained his silence, I am sure the PAP media will keep on using the Chiams to attack the SDP as the General Election approaches.
Most of your facts are extracted from SDP website. So the accuracy is hard to believe as well (Same as source taken from SPP/PAP, if any)
BTW, is there a chance that Chee manipulate the CEC to vote Chiam out. If there is a such possibility, then it is neither democratic in any sense, and also, this is forced Chiam out, which is what I believed anyway.
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Fact #8: 11 of the 13 CEC members voted to expel Chiam See Tong.
This is the fact.
Exactly why Mr Chiam resigned on account of Fact #8, only he knows. Save himself from being kicked out, have the dignity of walking out. Tarek harga that didn't work.
The rest are all human drama (wayang), to mask the issue, to cloud the malice, to be defensive, to be offensive. Whatever that is unfolding is the human factor of the political posturing.
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Whatever SDP or AWARE Sagas, its over, Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, let us move on.
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Originally posted by Junyang700:
A lot of them privatised liao leh.
privatized in name only...............even M1 and Starhub, supposedly rivals to Singtel but both are still owned by govt-linked companies.........
stat boards and govt-linked companies are still considered by people to be govt-owned............
for example, now that Lee Hsien Yang (LKY's younger son) is at F&N......................you think the top people working there won't vote PAP ? the reason F&N hire him is to get deals in property only................apart from his relation to LKY, he's nothing but a ''vase''...........