Give us HDB FLat AT COST, Not 30yrs Mortgage Enslavement
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
Huh? our govt peoples are harvard business graduate, cambridge lawyers, MIT engineers etc etc..so there is no doubt, they will rule it like a corporation, LKY being the Director. So those GLC will perform in a way as much similar as private business entity.
Just get a job, buy a house and stay happily there, dun try to be funny and start selling becos someone make some money out of it.
Recently Mah said they are building more EC, because peoples are earning more than 8k, and now here u are telling me cannot afford??? Young couples are people like me who never see poor people, before even graduate, they think of cars, condos and credit cards, that is why LKY, the director said, Young peoples dunno how to think...except me.
huh??$230,000 to raise a child??? must be eatin abalone and sharkfins every day with few maids taking care of him/her lor
Singapore inc. Sad state...
So you are just one of them exploited employees, yes ?
8K ? Really ? How many again ?
Not 200K+++ ? then tell me lor.. how much ?
Car is a transportation, condo is a comfortable roof over your head, credit card is for cashless transactions (convenience). Why do you think these are excesses ? Basic needs will be basic needs, you can label it anyway you want.
Does 1st world citizen need to live like a beggar ?
We are no longer living in the rubber tapping era..Time to move forward sista !
-
Originally posted by gasband:
I find it very amusing that when the flat owners were selling their flats at high prices with high COV, no one seems to complain that the HDB policies are bad. Now when it comes to their turn to buy flats at high prices, they complain. Talk about unbiased opinions
Which human being want to lose out??There is no such thing as flat owners, they are all leaseholders.
Pay so much to lease a flat.
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
Huh? our govt peoples are harvard business graduate, cambridge lawyers, MIT engineers etc etc..so there is no doubt, they will rule it like a corporation, LKY being the Director. So those GLC will perform in a way as much similar as private business entity.
Just get a job, buy a house and stay happily there, dun try to be funny and start selling becos someone make some money out of it.
Recently Mah said they are building more EC, because peoples are earning more than 8k, and now here u are telling me cannot afford??? Young couples are people like me who never see poor people, before even graduate, they think of cars, condos and credit cards, that is why LKY, the director said, Young peoples dunno how to think...except me.
huh??$230,000 to raise a child??? must be eatin abalone and sharkfins every day with few maids taking care of him/her lor
YOu just work ordinary job why must lapitiao, ah por.
All don't know how to think except you, this is rubbish. You know how to think only rubbish, post rubbish. Then come here without washing your chau puay cheebye. YOu sleep CCB, eat CCB, speak CCB, see CCB, post CCB.
Everyone is bad except you the rubbish.
-
Originally posted by jojobeach:
Singapore inc. Sad state...
So you are just one of them exploited employees, yes ?
8K ? Really ? How many again ?
Not 200K+++ ? then tell me lor.. how much ?
Car is a transportation, condo is a comfortable roof over your head, credit card is for cashless transactions (convenience). Why do you think these are excesses ? Basic needs will be basic needs, you can label it anyway you want.
Does 1st world citizen need to live like a beggar ?
We are no longer living in the rubber tapping era..Time to move forward sista !
Car? You can take bus / MRT.
Condo? Just live a 4 or 5 room flat should be good enough (Maybe condo better protection against Ah Longs)
Credit Card? No, it is expensive. Debit Card should serve well.
-
Originally posted by Samuel Lee:
Car? You can take bus / MRT.
Condo? Just live a 4 or 5 room flat should be good enough (Maybe condo better protection against Ah Longs)
Credit Card? No, it is expensive. Debit Card should serve well.
Expensive to have credit cards? Some don't have to pay subscription, free to use. Benefits using credit cards, eg, discount use credit cards for purchase. Why expensive? -
Originally posted by jojobeach:
Singapore inc. Sad state...
So you are just one of them exploited employees, yes ?
8K ? Really ? How many again ?
Not 200K+++ ? then tell me lor.. how much ?
Car is a transportation, condo is a comfortable roof over your head, credit card is for cashless transactions (convenience). Why do you think these are excesses ? Basic needs will be basic needs, you can label it anyway you want.
Does 1st world citizen need to live like a beggar ?
We are no longer living in the rubber tapping era..Time to move forward sista !
wha lau sista, my dad brought me up also no need 230k lor,...I attend goverment school, pay very less school fees, somemore govt give us edusave. Poly per year only 5 thousand, since young, my Dad only give me $5 per day, i walk to school, and go home, then at Sec 3, i work already,...all the way to poly, make my own money and find my own life out...therefore, by now, i am streetsmart than most of those spoonfeeding and milk feeding kids of my age.Tho my dad is able doing, that does not mean i take his money and spent lavishly, he taught be to be self sustain, independent and be wise in life. Unlike most the kids today, double income parents working to support their lavishly life with travelling, best iphone, games, watches, fashion, foods....most are spoiled, and when they come out of the shell, they see the HDB flat prices, they feel that they are unable to afford and make so much noises out of it. If cannot buy a flat, rent first lah, slowly makes money and than buy a flat, at least set your objective right. ALL night partying at St James, drink starbuck coffee, eat sakae suishi and expensive restaurant, go korea, japan, europe tour, buy sport car, change hp every 3 months, buy gucci and CK or branded goods and fashion....i give you $10000 per month pay also finish, want to buy HDB, save first lah, like me, eat ice kacang, drink 3 in 1, think only of making money, buy thailand fashion clothing, use a normal h/p, go NTUC buy foods and cook myself, go malaysia and thailand tour only or back to my taiwan,..u can save ya.
So young peoples of singapore have to look at themselve first before saying that they cannot afford to buy HDB, a great shame to them who are mostly U or poly grad, when their grandfather who works as a General worker with a paid of only $120 and able to pay a flat of $50,000.
-
That's why i alway said, it is important to look at the external situation, but it is more important to look at yourself....many people are living on tomorrow earn money, or so called accrued liabilities.
-
Ah por, come here show off. pichak lobang, you not from Taiwan. A singaporean pretend to be taiwanese, fake. What did taiwanese do to you that you have to pretend to be taiwanese to spoil their reputation?
PCCB
-
run out of opium
-
Hi Angel7030,
You are comparing a private business entity with a Government entity.
As I have explained clearly that the social contract between the people and the government is that, Land Acquisition Act would provide the government the power to acquire land at dirt cheap price so that Land redistribution could be done to serve the interests of all Singaporeans. In return, we are expecting the government to redevelop the land and provide CHEAP (REALLY SUBSIDIZED in the past) BASIC Public Housing for the majority of Singaporeans. This is a kind of Land Reform act.
No other private firms will have such privileges. PAP government is NOT keep to the deal when they starts to make huge profits out of the Land Acquisition Act and HDB flats.
Thus, your comparison is quite irrelevant here. Private companies do not need to account to their customers in terms of cost and pricing but the Government of the day which was empowered by the people to have certain privileged powers will have to be accountable to the people!
Many governments of the world face problem of Land Reform because the rich and powerful resisted laws like Land Acquisition Act. Singapore government is fortunate to inherit such powers which could make effective land reforms in the early years. However, they must not forget their part of the deal, provide cheap basic public housing for the populus.
I am not even suggesting to revert to the old days, whereby REAL COST Subsidies were given to citizens back in the 1970s and 1980s. I am just merely suggesting that we don't want any "subsidies" but just sell us at cost price!
Look at the newspaper cutting below and you will see what I mean. Cost of HDB was revealed then and the amount of subsidies were announced in a transparent way. If they could do that then, why not now?
Goh Meng Seng
-
Originally posted by goh meng seng:
Hi Angel7030,
You are comparing a private business entity with a Government entity.
As I have explained clearly that the social contract between the people and the government is that, Land Acquisition Act would provide the government the power to acquire land at dirt cheap price so that Land redistribution could be done to serve the interests of all Singaporeans. In return, we are expecting the government to redevelop the land and provide CHEAP (REALLY SUBSIDIZED in the past) BASIC Public Housing for the majority of Singaporeans. This is a kind of Land Reform act.
No other private firms will have such privileges. PAP government is NOT keep to the deal when they starts to make huge profits out of the Land Acquisition Act and HDB flats.
Thus, your comparison is quite irrelevant here. Private companies do not need to account to their customers in terms of cost and pricing but the Government of the day which was empowered by the people to have certain privileged powers will have to be accountable to the people!
Many governments of the world face problem of Land Reform because the rich and powerful resisted laws like Land Acquisition Act. Singapore government is fortunate to inherit such powers which could make effective land reforms in the early years. However, they must not forget their part of the deal, provide cheap basic public housing for the populus.
I am not even suggesting to revert to the old days, whereby REAL COST Subsidies were given to citizens back in the 1970s and 1980s. I am just merely suggesting that we don't want any "subsidies" but just sell us at cost price!
Look at the newspaper cutting below and you will see what I mean. Cost of HDB was revealed then and the amount of subsidies were announced in a transparent way. If they could do that then, why not now?
Goh Meng Seng
Dear Meng Seng,
As i said and posted, our govt, tho politicians, are not politically train, they are more business and laws base trained, so, in a nutshell, they rule this place with the like of a Incorporation with a business law co ops in it.
The day the voters mandated them to be the govt, the day they are given the consitutional right to goven here without the need of you or mine endorsement, things like Land Acquisition Act are exactly the kind of business law they enact on it to make it look so beautiful within a framework of the social laws. In fact, in layman term, if they dun go thru this act and take the land at zero prices, it is still their perogatives as 66.6% peoples mandated their action. So what more can you say...those laws are for show.
I agree that in term of percentage between paid and price of a flat, there is signicficant increase in comparing with the flat in the 80s, but remember today flat come with good surrounding amenities, park and garden, rooms are also rennovated in a sense that you dun hv to spend much on it. What the govt is doing now is telling people, be realistic, it is not going to be the good old day where govt gives alot of subsidization and can allow default in payment. Being realistic of the market price of a flat gives a person or a couple the real issue at hand, and it is not out of the reach of a new couple, as i said, certainly the govt will not set a price that nobody can afford, because govt also want people to build family and borne childrens here.
-
Originally posted by Wmyongj:
The key question is how to price the cost of the land. In Spore, agreed that HDB provide housing based on the need of the population and in reality, it does not cost the government a single extra dollar as subsidy for these houses. In economic term it is the value of the land that was perceived as 'subsidy' since they are sold below so call ' market value'. The fact that Singapore land is scarce is similar to many countries, however, if HDB is to continue and the PAP is to uphold the policy of 居��其屋，it is the responsibilty of the govern to provide affortable housing. I am avocate that public subsidise houses should not be allowed to be sold to foreigners. This applies to resales flat. If private property prices increases due to foreigner investments, than it is the government obligation to control and protect our citizen. We are a small country.
I agree that those who do not hr citizenship or PR should not be eligible for public housing. -
Dear Angel,
It is simple Mathematics. If my Father's generation only pay 10to 15 years mortgage while I pay 20 years, it would be obvious to many people that for our children to pay 30 years mortgage means that asset inflation has outstripped income growth for the past 30years.
Flats built in the 80s and 90s are BIGGER in size. For example, a 4 room flat built in early 1990s is as big as a 5 room flat now! In other places, they price properties according to dollar per square feet but HDB uses such a misrepresentation of "room flat".
If you still think that HDB flats are affordable now, I really have nothing else to say but be prepared for your children to pay a 40 yearts mortgage in years to come.
Goh Meng Seng
-
profit first, welfare last
housing in Singapore not longer affordable
why it's an asset to many Singaporean
cash not so power
if price of housing drop in value = your asset value depreciate
then many people would start to make noise
sell the house - later stay where
-
Angel
The point that most ppl here trying to make is that HDB flats could be made even more affordable and wld like to know the cost of a flat to gauge the reasonableness of HDB's selling price and what is the subsidy $.
"good surrounding amenities, park and garden, rooms are also rennovated" as mentioned by you is not as impt. We can do our own renov with $ saved from a cheaper flat.
As regards to ppl " night partying at St James, drink starbuck coffee, eat sakae suishi and expensive restaurant, go korea, japan, europe tour, buy sport car, change hp every 3 months...." ppl need to pamper themselves to release stress mah.
-
Originally posted by goh meng seng:
Dear Angel,
It is simple Mathematics. If my Father's generation only pay 10to 15 years mortgage while I pay 20 years, it would be obvious to many people that for our children to pay 30 years mortgage means that asset inflation has outstripped income growth for the past 30years.
Flats built in the 80s and 90s are BIGGER in size. For example, a 4 room flat built in early 1990s is as big as a 5 room flat now! In other places, they price properties according to dollar per square feet but HDB uses such a misrepresentation of "room flat".
If you still think that HDB flats are affordable now, I really have nothing else to say but be prepared for your children to pay a 40 yearts mortgage in years to come.
Goh Meng Seng
Dear Meng Seng,
Frankly, today parents are mostly rich enuf to pay off a HDB flat for their only son, that is what the govt is looking at, and some even buy condo for them as a wedding gift.
I think people here are looking from a perspectives of lower income group, that is only 15% and diminishing, it is unlike the 80s, peoples just want a roof on top, so simple flat are build, today, peoples are more choosy, imagine 40% eligible applicants rejected their given flat just because of lower floor, facing wrong direction etc etc..that incur that peoples are now more influential, they can wait because their parents have houses, unlike in the 80s where no one in family is a house ownership.
Of course the term of paying is up to individual, you can pay it right off, 10 years, 20 years..all up to you and your ability.
-
Angel,
I do not know where you get the idea that parents are mostly rich enough to pay off a HDB flat for their only son. Yes, there are people who did that but I bet they are the minority.
The lower income group is EXPANDING rather than dminishing. I am asking HDB for the specific details or statistics on certain things before I will make my conclusions on the rejection of the alloted flats. You are right, they can wait but with the prices that need a 30 years mortgage, I don't think they have much time left. Imagine if you are to marry at 30 years old, you need to take out all money from CPF to pay for your flat for 30 years, it would mean that by 60 years old when you finished paying your mortgage, you won't have much money left in CPF for your retirement.
I hope you are not asking parents to take care of their children's retirement also?
Goh Meng Seng
-
Originally posted by hundydude:
Expensive to have credit cards? Some don't have to pay subscription, free to use. Benefits using credit cards, eg, discount use credit cards for purchase. Why expensive?True, but you must remember to cancel your credit card @ the end of the year or 2, at most 5, depending which card is it. Anyway, what is sure is that in someplaces, they have extra surcharge in it, and using cash in places like Sim Lim could have ask for more discounts. (Or using NETS / Credit Card - Debit Card means more price lo)
One thing sure is that not all can have credit card due to high interest (When one cannot pay because the monthly limit is double or more of your monthly salary!), lower income people will find Debit Card suffice despite the lack of discounts.
-
hi jojobeach,
do u think u need include cost of acquiring lands many years ago, the
holding cost of the land in so many yeara and the opportunity cost
foregoing the land to build cheap HDB?
2.i think u need. SG need to pay so many things in defense, health,
old aged folks, education etc NOW and in the furure.
we dunt have oil underground nor coconuts above ground.
3.Talk is cheap. Compare with HK, SG people shall kow to PAP!
Hk has ceased stopped selling and build HOS--Home Ownership scheme
(=SG HDB) since 2002 Nov!
The worse is even private hosuing completed less flats than SG in the past
2 years! Therefore. HK housing price now is sky high !
(E) Home Assistance Loan Scheme
21. Following the cessation of the construction and sale of HOS flats, the Housing Authority will continue to offer loans to help eligible families to buy their own homes through the new Home Assistance Loan Scheme.http://www.cityu.edu.hk/hkhousing/pdoc/default.htm
Policy Documents - 1984 onwards Policy Addresses - 1972 onwards
(Including Extract on Housing and Polic
Statement on Housing Policy by the Secretary for Housing, Planning & Lands (13 November 2002) (pdf: 124KB)
-
Hong Kong still selling the balanced stock of the HOS. In fact, they started selling them back in 2007.
Goh Meng Seng
-
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
hi jojobeach,
do u think u need include cost of acquiring lands many years ago, the
holding cost of the land in so many yeara and the opportunity cost
foregoing the land to build cheap HDB?
2.i think u need. SG need to pay so many things in defense, health,
old aged folks, education etc NOW and in the furure.
we dunt have oil underground nor coconuts above ground.
3.Talk is cheap. Compare with HK, SG people shall kow to PAP!
Hk has ceased stopped selling and build HOS--Home Ownership scheme
(=SG HDB) since 2002 Nov!
The worse is even private hosuing completed less flats than SG in the past
2 years! Therefore. HK housing price now is sky high !
http://www.cityu.edu.hk/hkhousing/pdoc/default.htm
Policy Documents - 1984 onwards
Policy Addresses - 1972 onwards
(Including Extract on Housing and Polic
Statement on Housing Policy by the Secretary for Housing, Planning & Lands (13 November 2002) (pdf: 124KB)
It is easy to compare HK to Sg because both have scarce land resources. However, Hong Kong belong to PRC and you may not be aware that most Hong Konger have properties in main land China. It takes only less than an hour trian ride to cross over the boarder to Shenzhen. Unlike foreigners, it is very convenience for them to clear immigration (so dont compare us with Johor).
In Hong Kong, the property price in Kowlong is not expensive and they have far more land than Singapore. The problem with Hong Kong on property is that they are not able to restrict mainlander PRC from buying their properties. Indeed, their government encourage mainlander property investment in Hong Kong as their main source of budget revenue (Hong Kong has very low personal taxes, company taxes and no VAT). Do you think Hong Kong ppl are not complaining? yes, there are endless protest over the runaway property price but Hong Kong government cant allow taxes increases as it will open the door for more communist PRC central government interfering in their domestic politics.
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
wha lau sista, my dad brought me up also no need 230k lor,...I attend goverment school, pay very less school fees, somemore govt give us edusave. Poly per year only 5 thousand, since young, my Dad only give me $5 per day, i walk to school, and go home, then at Sec 3, i work already,...all the way to poly, make my own money and find my own life out...therefore, by now, i am streetsmart than most of those spoonfeeding and milk feeding kids of my age.Tho my dad is able doing, that does not mean i take his money and spent lavishly, he taught be to be self sustain, independent and be wise in life. Unlike most the kids today, double income parents working to support their lavishly life with travelling, best iphone, games, watches, fashion, foods....most are spoiled, and when they come out of the shell, they see the HDB flat prices, they feel that they are unable to afford and make so much noises out of it. If cannot buy a flat, rent first lah, slowly makes money and than buy a flat, at least set your objective right. ALL night partying at St James, drink starbuck coffee, eat sakae suishi and expensive restaurant, go korea, japan, europe tour, buy sport car, change hp every 3 months, buy gucci and CK or branded goods and fashion....i give you $10000 per month pay also finish, want to buy HDB, save first lah, like me, eat ice kacang, drink 3 in 1, think only of making money, buy thailand fashion clothing, use a normal h/p, go NTUC buy foods and cook myself, go malaysia and thailand tour only or back to my taiwan,..u can save ya.
So young peoples of singapore have to look at themselve first before saying that they cannot afford to buy HDB, a great shame to them who are mostly U or poly grad, when their grandfather who works as a General worker with a paid of only $120 and able to pay a flat of $50,000.
Sista angel, have you done a study to find out the TRUE cost of raising ONE child ? Don't just look at how much you get in your pocket ya ?
Your clothing, toys , toileteries, traveling expense, housing, meals, utilities, medicines/doctor visits, schools materials, extra curricular activities.. etc..etc ALL cost money ok ?
There are families who tracked child raising expenses.. and the numbers come up pretty close.
So yes ofcors HDB is affordable to young couples, PROVIDED they DO NOT have children.
So.. what gives ????
-
Originally posted by jojobeach:
Sista angel, have you done a study to find out the TRUE cost of raising ONE child ? Don't just look at how much you get in your pocket ya ?
Your clothing, toys , toileteries, traveling expense, housing, meals, utilities, medicines/doctor visits, schools materials, extra curricular activities.. etc..etc ALL cost money ok ?
There are families who tracked child raising expenses.. and the numbers come up pretty close.
So yes ofcors HDB is affordable to young couples, PROVIDED they DO NOT have children.
So.. what gives ????
Provided the young couples continue to hold jobs. Once sacked, or retrenched there likely will have problem paying the housing loan. -
look at the trend of ppl rushing to buy condo
sgporeans so rich sia
no wonder our mr mah say hdb
still very cheap cheappp le
-
Originally posted by noahnoah:
look at the trend of ppl rushing to buy condo
sgporeans so rich sia
no wonder our mr mah say hdb
still very cheap cheappp le
Face very important to them. There are some who just manage (not rich, holding not high post, salary ok, not high) to afford it go for condo. Never have a thought of how to pay if they lose their jobs , no thought on their savings can allow them financing the housing loan.