Give us HDB FLat AT COST, Not 30yrs Mortgage Enslavement
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HDB used to be a very unique and successful socialist approach to provide basic adequate housing for Singaporeans. The HDB scheme was made possible by the power of Land Acquisition Act that allows the government of the day to acquire land at dirt cheap prices. It is a social contract between the people and the government to empower them to acquire land at cheap prices while in return, the people's basic housing needs are taken care of by the government providing HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED HDB flats to more than 80% of the population.
The break down of Cost price of HDB was made available back in 1981 when the government showed us how much COST SUBSIDIES have been given to the citizens.
However, since the introduction of "Asset Enhancement Program" in early 1990s and subsequently the introduction of "Market Price Subsidy" in the pricing of new HDB flats, new HDB flats are no longer cheap. The PAP government has subtly avoided their responsible embedded in the social contract. The PAP government has used very creative accounting to avoid showing how much money they have earned from selling new HDB flats while shamelessly claiming that a "Market Subsidy" was provided. This is no more than mere "DISCOUNTS" with no real subsidy given.
When asked to provide the breakdown of the COST of building these HDB flats, there was surreal silence from HDB. Why could they provide breakdown of cost back in 1981 while reluctance to provide it now?
We just want an honest price from HDB for our young Singaporean couples, at least a COST PRICE of HDB for our young in return for the enormous power that we have given the PAP government in Land Acquisition Act which it has used to acquired huge land stock at dirt cheap prices.
This group will act as a campaign to pressure the PAP government to fulfill their role as a responsible public housing provider. To fulfill their part of the social contract as embedded in the Land Acquisition Act. -
Dear Mr Goh, you have spoken clearly what every young Singaporean wish for the PAP government to deliver. Unfortunately, these ppl are too detached from the gound and unable to appraise the sentiment and the wishes of ordinary Singaporean. In their most fevent effort to promote Singapore as a place for migrants, they have asked for Singaporean to bear with foreigners speculating in our properties. They are ignorance of how small the size of Singapore island is and the land being so scarce that our government should not allow it for investment to the world at large. If we posses land like Russian, Australia, we can afford and welcome foreigners in living with us. What is happening in Singapore is giving us , a clear message that we will become slave to own home in our own land. I cautioned many times with my comments at the forum that weathy foreigners from Indian and PRC are buying up our properties simply because they have many rich ppl who want to divest their weath to places that give them protection from their government. Singapore is a perfect place for doing so. They dont have the skill or the real business investments like many of the western companies, they will only speculate in our land and continue to profit from it, at the expense of our citizens, making us poorer and laden with a huge mortages in future.
I live in PRC now and whenever I return to Singapore I am finding changes that are shocking. Singapore is becoming like PRC. I am having more and more foreigners neigbours. If my PRC neigbours could affort a 1million SGD apt in their own country, Hainan Island, what will stop them from buying another property in Singapore?
When Indian and Indonesian new found riches wish to invest, what make you think they are not buying Singapore?
At more than 1m SGD for a 100m2 apt now in Singapore, my PRC neighbours are surprised and commented that it was dirt cheap comparing to their investment in Hainan Island. God bless Singapore. Already with Singaporean living a stressful life with lower income, higher living expenses and taxes, ever increasing property prices and housing loan, I fear we will end up like a third world citizen living in a first world country. This Singapore is increasing diff from the one I recognise and feel proud to live in the past.
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The sad reality that is missed is that even after a 30 year mortgage, an HDB home owner may not necessarily be the owner of the home that he had paid for with his entire life saving.
Recently, an HDB home owner got his house repossessed for contravening the HDB rules concerning renting the room in his home.
Even the 99 year lease placed on all HDB flats has already put the question of home ownership into sharper focus - especially when HDB has the right to take possession of the HDB units even before the 99 year lease is up.
Many HDB home owners were evicted from their homes even when the flats were only 45 years of age.
What was the compensatory price that these home owners received for having their HDB units repossessed by HDB ?
Were the amount paid for the repossession according to the prevailing market rates for the respective types of HDB units, or are the compensatory amounts determined in the typical high-handed arbitrary manners that is so characteristic of the HDB controlled by the PAP Government ?
Singaporeans are basically kept hostage by the PAP.
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u can wait 9 9
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Will HDB flats be sold at the real COST OF BUILDING HDB Flats at the prices from the following articles ?
‘Cost of building HDB flats – finally an answer ? (*1)
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you are never the real owner of any property...........not even freehold...........why ?
see what happens if you refuse to pay property tax ?
the HDB is the PAP's main method of controlling and enslaving the people...............they go to hell 1st before they'll sell it to you at 50% profit...............don't even need to talk about at cost..............
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I find it very amusing that when the flat owners were selling their flats at high prices with high COV, no one seems to complain that the HDB policies are bad. Now when it comes to their turn to buy flats at high prices, they complain. Talk about unbiased opinions
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So are we owners of our homes (as we were told) or lessee/ tenant?
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The way things work, it is like you are renting from the HDB ie. they are the landlords.
After all, they can take back the flat if you break any of their rules.
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Originally posted by RoyFang:
So are we owners of our homes (as we were told) or lessee/ tenant?
You are the OWNER of a 99 year lease from HDB.
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Originally posted by gasband:
I find it very amusing that when the flat owners were selling their flats at high prices with high COV, no one seems to complain that the HDB policies are bad. Now when it comes to their turn to buy flats at high prices, they complain. Talk about unbiased opinions
We are talking about new flats , yes ?
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Originally posted by goh meng seng:
HDB used to be a very unique and successful socialist approach to provide basic adequate housing for Singaporeans. The HDB scheme was made possible by the power of Land Acquisition Act that allows the government of the day to acquire land at dirt cheap prices. It is a social contract between the people and the government to empower them to acquire land at cheap prices while in return, the people's basic housing needs are taken care of by the government providing HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED HDB flats to more than 80% of the population.
The break down of Cost price of HDB was made available back in 1981 when the government showed us how much COST SUBSIDIES have been given to the citizens.
However, since the introduction of "Asset Enhancement Program" in early 1990s and subsequently the introduction of "Market Price Subsidy" in the pricing of new HDB flats, new HDB flats are no longer cheap. The PAP government has subtly avoided their responsible embedded in the social contract. The PAP government has used very creative accounting to avoid showing how much money they have earned from selling new HDB flats while shamelessly claiming that a "Market Subsidy" was provided. This is no more than mere "DISCOUNTS" with no real subsidy given.
When asked to provide the breakdown of the COST of building these HDB flats, there was surreal silence from HDB. Why could they provide breakdown of cost back in 1981 while reluctance to provide it now?
We just want an honest price from HDB for our young Singaporean couples, at least a COST PRICE of HDB for our young in return for the enormous power that we have given the PAP government in Land Acquisition Act which it has used to acquired huge land stock at dirt cheap prices.
This group will act as a campaign to pressure the PAP government to fulfill their role as a responsible public housing provider. To fulfill their part of the social contract as embedded in the Land Acquisition Act.At COST ? At what cost ?
Do you also pay for the cost of LAND ? or just the cost of construction ?
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Bullshit lah.The cost of a unit of HDB is only around $50k-$120 Sing dollar.That is alrdy inclusive of the Land cost.You think building HDB block very expensive meh?
The cost is there.Except everyone who took part in the project take a cut in the profit.
Just like a normal Main Contractor building a new building.The only real difference is
the land for building public housing is set cheaper than private housing.
And that HDB only took 100-200% profit.Much lower than Main contractor's 400-1000%.
If only u can see y companies like to build building even though there isnt much land to build alrdy.
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who are the owners on the construction company, who is backing these companies.
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Originally posted by Worcer:
Bullshit lah.The cost of a unit of HDB is only around $50k-$120 Sing dollar.That is alrdy inclusive of the Land cost.You think building HDB block very expensive meh?
The cost is there.Except everyone who took part in the project take a cut in the profit.
Just like a normal Main Contractor building a new building.The only real difference is
the land for building public housing is set cheaper than private housing.
And that HDB only took 100-200% profit.Much lower than Main contractor's 400-1000%.
If only u can see y companies like to build building even though there isnt much land to build alrdy.
i think the building cost of entire block would breakeven at the 6 floor....
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We are never owners of HDB flats. Its sorta like we pay rents to HDB for rights to live in one for 99 years. HDB also don't own the land on which the flats are built. HDB pays Land Authority for the land to build the flats. So technically garhmen owns everything.
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Originally posted by new moon:
We are never owners of HDB flats. Its sorta like we pay rents to HDB for rights to live in one for 99 years. HDB also don't own the land on which the flats are built. HDB pays Land Authority for the land to build the flats. So technically garhmen owns everything.
Rents ? I don't remember having to borrow heavily and pay interest rates to pay for RENTS.
I don't remember coughing out such a huge amount of money UPFRONT to RENT pigeon holes.
HDB pays to Land Authority.. then Land Authority pays to WHO ?
Now I know why we can afford to pay our million lollar ministers...
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
Rents ? I don't remember having to borrow heavily and pay interest rates to pay for RENTS.
I don't remember coughing out such a huge amount of money UPFRONT to RENT pigeon holes.
HDB pays to Land Authority.. then Land Authority pays to WHO ?
Now I know why we can afford to pay our million lollar ministers...
Even if you pay HDB in full upon purchase, you can only stay there for 99 yrs max. After 99 yrs, the fully paid flat doesn't pass on to you descendants right ? Thats why I said its sorta like rental payments.
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It does not matter if the house is 99 yrs or freehold. Afterall, we will not live longer than the apt. The purpose of a house is to provide us with the shelter, decents and modern tht we can call home. If we have the ability to earn more, become richer than others, than we should be happy that they can have a bigger or better home.
For ordinarySingaporean, a 100m 2 HDB house is a very decent home and they should not be salve to own one and living a sub-standard lifestyle in exchange.
There is always a economic value for land and I believe our neigbour Malaysia is one country that gives us a good truth picture if we want comparision. As for the cost of building an apt, I can testify that the Chinese are building cheaper and better quality house now comparing Singapore. The construction cost for an high quality apt is not more than 2K per m2.
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Originally posted by goh meng seng:
HDB used to be a very unique and successful socialist approach to provide basic adequate housing for Singaporeans. The HDB scheme was made possible by the power of Land Acquisition Act that allows the government of the day to acquire land at dirt cheap prices. It is a social contract between the people and the government to empower them to acquire land at cheap prices while in return, the people's basic housing needs are taken care of by the government providing HEAVILY SUBSIDIZED HDB flats to more than 80% of the population.
The break down of Cost price of HDB was made available back in 1981 when the government showed us how much COST SUBSIDIES have been given to the citizens.
However, since the introduction of "Asset Enhancement Program" in early 1990s and subsequently the introduction of "Market Price Subsidy" in the pricing of new HDB flats, new HDB flats are no longer cheap. The PAP government has subtly avoided their responsible embedded in the social contract. The PAP government has used very creative accounting to avoid showing how much money they have earned from selling new HDB flats while shamelessly claiming that a "Market Subsidy" was provided. This is no more than mere "DISCOUNTS" with no real subsidy given.
When asked to provide the breakdown of the COST of building these HDB flats, there was surreal silence from HDB. Why could they provide breakdown of cost back in 1981 while reluctance to provide it now?
We just want an honest price from HDB for our young Singaporean couples, at least a COST PRICE of HDB for our young in return for the enormous power that we have given the PAP government in Land Acquisition Act which it has used to acquired huge land stock at dirt cheap prices.
This group will act as a campaign to pressure the PAP government to fulfill their role as a responsible public housing provider. To fulfill their part of the social contract as embedded in the Land Acquisition Act.
Dear Uncle Meng Seng,If you are looking at the resale market of HDB, yes, it can be abit costly, however, as someone rightly put it, the sellers are not complaining, it is when they become the buyers of resale flat that is complaining. As for new flat for new couple and first timer, it is still very much affordable in today market and earning power of most people.
HDB run itself as a business entity, it does not have to tell you about it cost of operating, this are confidential information property of any business entity, as such, even a chicken seller will not tell you his base cost, and to sell, if you insist, he can tell u a high figure in cost of buying chickens ending up he is not making much. Why pursue yourself to know the base cost of a flat if the number can be massaged, therefore even if they come out with a figure, are u going to believe it. I think basically, in you life, you must have had gone thru bargaining for some goods in the street, tell me, what does the seller said, he/she will alway says, not making.
As a person of much travelled, I see singapore housing solution as one of the top class in the world, comparing to many many other countries, most of their poors are homeless with nothing to complain about.
When we talk about removing the paternalistic of Govt policies on it citizen, i think we must not alway rely on Govt subsidaries and other perks that spoon feed many of the lower income group here, by and large, as time goes on, this group become more prone to money problem and alway look at Papa Govt for help, and when the govt dun help, they make hell lot of noises. The Govt is not going to be that unreasonable to set a new flat price that is beyong a common citizen reach, they have been constantly studying the condition and the earning power of Singaporeans thru income tax and other statistic to justify the cost of a flat. Today, singapore are not earning less, and a flat today, come with good amenities and good structure to justify it cost higher than those other old flat build in the early housing development state.
When govt set the cost of the flat, it is base on the average $4k per household income to set let say a 4 rooms flat, it cannot be a set of different price for different group, if you earn 4k and less, too bad, if you earn 4k and above, live well. But those living 4k and below, should buck up and face the real fact that the world is moving forward and not backward. And if you are looking for some quick hard cash, you start to sell you flat at a higher cost but end up having to look for another one at a high cost, you cannot blame nobody. A housing flat is for people to live, build a family, enjoy the surrounding and be part of the intergrated culture, not for you to do business with it, sell here and buy there or end up downgrading or living in tents,...i think people have to wake up. That's all.
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Don't talk about present Singapore government, talk about other governments in the world throughtout history:
No government would sell apartments to the people at cost due to inflation, then in the future, no more housing, people sleep in the streets. Second, there is population explosion hence more monies needed to build apartments. If Goh Meng Seng is the stupid author of the original postings, then he can report straight to IMH.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
ear Uncle Meng Seng,
If you are looking at the resale market of HDB, yes, it can be abit costly, however, as someone rightly put it, the sellers are not complaining, it is when they become the buyers of resale flat that is complaining. As for new flat for new couple and first timer, it is still very much affordable in today market and earning power of most people.
HDB run itself as a business entity, it does not have to tell you about it cost of operating, this are confidential information property of any business entity, as such, even a chicken seller will not tell you his base cost, and to sell, if you insist, he can tell u a high figure in cost of buying chickens ending up he is not making much. Why pursue yourself to know the base cost of a flat if the number can be massaged, therefore even if they come out with a figure, are u going to believe it. I think basically, in you life, you must have had gone thru bargaining for some goods in the street, tell me, what does the seller said, he/she will alway says, not making.
As a person of much travelled, I see singapore housing solution as one of the top class in the world, comparing to many many other countries, most of their poors are homeless with nothing to complain about.
When we talk about removing the paternalistic of Govt policies on it citizen, i think we must not alway rely on Govt subsidaries and other perks that spoon feed many of the lower income group here, by and large, as time goes on, this group become more prone to money problem and alway look at Papa Govt for help, and when the govt dun help, they make hell lot of noises. The Govt is not going to be that unreasonable to set a new flat price that is beyong a common citizen reach, they have been constantly studying the condition and the earning power of Singaporeans thru income tax and other statistic to justify the cost of a flat. Today, singapore are not earning less, and a flat today, come with good amenities and good structure to justify it cost higher than those other old flat build in the early housing development state.
When govt set the cost of the flat, it is base on the average $4k per household income to set let say a 4 rooms flat, it cannot be a set of different price for different group, if you earn 4k and less, too bad, if you earn 4k and above, live well. But those living 4k and below, should buck up and face the real fact that the world is moving forward and not backward. And if you are looking for some quick hard cash, you start to sell you flat at a higher cost but end up having to look for another one at a high cost, you cannot blame nobody. A housing flat is for people to live, build a family, enjoy the surrounding and be part of the intergrated culture, not for you to do business with it, sell here and buy there or end up downgrading or living in tents,...i think people have to wake up. That's all.
sista angel,
i wish life is as simple as you made it out to be.
Sing jia por is not a business entity.
Slavery is the cheapest form of labor.
The cost of new flat is no longer affordable to a young couple trying to start a family.
Each child cost about $230,000 not including college.
There's also the minimum sum to think about.
Old people don't need a big flat that they used to raise their children in, and it is not good financial planning to be dying in a big flat. You claim to be an accountant, go figure this one out.
There are many uncertainties in life that forces people to sell their homes. Not everyone who made a windfall selling their homes uses the money to buy Gucci bags.
HDB's policy is no longer relevant.
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Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:
Don't talk about present Singapore government, talk about other governments in the world throughtout history:
No government would sell apartments to the people at cost due to inflation, then in the future, no more housing, people sleep in the streets. Second, there is population explosion hence more monies needed to build apartments. If Goh Meng Seng is the stupid author of the original postings, then he can report straight to IMH.
The key question is how to price the cost of the land. In Spore, agreed that HDB provide housing based on the need of the population and in reality, it does not cost the government a single extra dollar as subsidy for these houses. In economic term it is the value of the land that was perceived as 'subsidy' since they are sold below so call ' market value'. The fact that Singapore land is scarce is similar to many countries, however, if HDB is to continue and the PAP is to uphold the policy of 居��其屋，it is the responsibilty of the govern to provide affortable housing. I am avocate that public subsidise houses should not be allowed to be sold to foreigners. This applies to resales flat. If private property prices increases due to foreigner investments, than it is the government obligation to control and protect our citizen. We are a small country.
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Originally posted by jojobeach:
sista angel,
i wish life is as simple as you made it out to be.
Sing jia por is not a business entity.
Slavery is the cheapest form of labor.
The cost of new flat is no longer affordable to a young couple trying to start a family.
Each child cost about $230,000 not including college.
There's also the minimum sum to think about.
Old people don't need a big flat that they used to raise their children in, and it is not good financial planning to be dying in a big flat. You claim to be an accountant, go figure this one out.
There are many uncertainties in life that forces people to sell their homes. Not everyone who made a windfall selling their homes uses the money to buy Gucci bags.
HDB's policy is no longer relevant.
Huh? our govt peoples are harvard business graduate, cambridge lawyers, MIT engineers etc etc..so there is no doubt, they will rule it like a corporation, LKY being the Director. So those GLC will perform in a way as much similar as private business entity.
Just get a job, buy a house and stay happily there, dun try to be funny and start selling becos someone make some money out of it.
Recently Mah said they are building more EC, because peoples are earning more than 8k, and now here u are telling me cannot afford??? Young couples are people like me who never see poor people, before even graduate, they think of cars, condos and credit cards, that is why LKY, the director said, Young peoples dunno how to think...except me.
huh??$230,000 to raise a child??? must be eatin abalone and sharkfins every day with few maids taking care of him/her lor
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Huh? our govt peoples are harvard business graduate, cambridge lawyers, MIT engineers etc etc..so there is no doubt, they will rule it like a corporation, LKY being the Director. So those GLC will perform in a way as much similar as private business entity.
Just get a job, buy a house and stay happily there, dun try to be funny and start selling becos someone make some money out of it.
Recently Mah said they are building more EC, because peoples are earning more than 8k, and now here u are telling me cannot afford??? Young couples are people like me who never see poor people, before even graduate, they think of cars, condos and credit cards, that is why LKY, the director said, Young peoples dunno how to think...except me.
huh??$230,000 to raise a child??? must be eatin abalone and sharkfins every day with few maids taking care of him/her lor
Did you do your math? ppl who brough HDB in the past 10 yrs cannot affort to upgrade to EC because HDB priced at more than 200-300K. Even if they decided to migrate, they will incurr debts of more than 500K and expect to pay off in next 30 yrs. They may not be earning 8K but lower which means they choose to be slave to the house for pleasure. Who are these ppl? they probably have not face with a real deep economic downturn. It was fortunate that the last one was short but again many ppl suffer. Do the govern care than..no if you are tempted to own an expensive house and slave to it, it is your choice. Afterall, the govern already had the land price into their loss from the sovereign funds.