PAP Minister: “Not realistic†for GIC to avoid losses
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Written by Our Correspondent
After losing a few billion dollars of national reserves, PAP Minister Lim Hwee Hua got the cheek to say it is “not realistic” to avoid losses on every investment made by the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation or GIC.
Mrs Lim is responding to PAP MP Madam Ho Geok Choo’s request in Parliament for an update on GIC’s investments.
GIC has suffered disastrous losses in its UBS and Stuyvesant Town investment amounting to more than $10 billion dollars which made international headlines in recent weeks.
The state media has been quick to downplay the significance of the losses. What was not mentioned is the cavalier manner in which the investment decisions appeared to be made.
For example, it was revealed by Bloomberg that GIC took only 3 days to make the decision to invest in UBS:
“Marcel Ospel, then chairman of Zurich-based UBS, called GIC Chief Investment Officer Ng Kok Song, according to comments they made at the time. Talks began on Dec. 6, 2007, and by the evening of Dec. 9, GIC had committed to make its biggest single purchase at the time,” Bloomberg reported.
[Source: Bloomberg, 1 March 2010]
Mrs Lim claimed that both GIC and Temasek Holdings have so far delivered ‘creditable’ returns on their portfolios over the “long term” without substantiating her statements.
Nobody expects GIC never to make any losses, but Singaporeans do expect a minimal degree of accountability and transparency in the management of Singapore’s reserves which are accumulated over years of budget surpluses.
It is not realistic to lose billions of dollars and still allow the same people to sit on the boards of GIC and Temasek Holdings. Neither is it realistic to expect people with no prior experience in the finance industry to head the two funds. And it is definitely not realistic for Mrs Lim to pluck figures out of thin air without opening the account books for auditing.
Are we getting the best people to run GIC and Temasek Holdings?
Definitely not, according to U.S investment guru Jim Rogers who questioned the intelligence of GIC fund managers after they made the hasty decision to invest in UBS:
“I know these people, and they have never given me the impression that they’re smarter than anyone else. They have gigantic amounts of money, but they’ve made a bad judgment in these cases.”
Mrs Lim should stop hiding behind the lame excuse of “long term returns” to defend GIC’s dismal performance. If every single investment is assessed on the basis of “long term returns”, then every Tom, Dick and Harry can be a fund manager including our own Harry Lee who said in the aftermath of the “blood-letting”:
“When we invest, we are investing for 10, 15, 20 years. You may look as if you are making a big loss today, but you have not borrowed money to invest. You will ride the storm, the company recovers, your shares go up.”
[Source: CNA, 6 Feb 2009]
We are sitting on actual and paper losses of billions of dollars. Imagine if a fraction of it is re-invested in Singaporeans within a ten year period instead of waiting for the shares to go up.
It is not realistic for the PAP to play around with the hard-earned savings of Singaporeans like that. The reserves belong to every citizen of Singapore – our grandparents, parents and children and not to them.
In private investment firms, CEOs and entire boards of directors can be sacked based on one wrong investment decision, but in Singapore, the same old people remain secured in their positions, is this realistic?
If it is not realistic for GIC to avoid such gigantic losses in the future, then perhaps its Chairman should consider stepping down in a favor of a more qualified and experienced fund manager.
Related articles:
1. GIC incurs more than$7 billion loss in its UBS investment
2. Straits Times downplay GIC losses
3. GIC may have lost more than $13 billion dollars in its UBS investment on paper
4. GIC’s UBS investment: A chronicle of a disaster in the making
5. GIC’s $14 billion investment in UBS in jeopardy after it faces collapse
6. Dr Tony Tan: GIC in good shape
Temasek Review March 10, 2010
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But then that is of course the money is the public's money.
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I think people are not asking for investments not to lose money.
Rather, we are concerned about the lack of transparency.
Things that are a "matter of public interest".
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I hate it when people do not understand that "paper loss" is REAL MONEY lost.
Why? It's simple.
Between the buyer or seller of a share, there will always be one loser (each is betting the opposite direction). When a share is transacted, the buyer injects REAL CASH into the purchase of the sale, after which, the seller happily gallops away into the sunset (if he is right).
In this case, the idiots have injected REAL CASH (Singapore's $$$) into the bank, and someone has taken that real cash and laughed into the sunset, while we sit here and claim it's only a "paper loss"
We are now waiting for the next stupid fellow (the next buyer), to transfer the crown of stupidity to him (by selling at a higher price to make up the losses), OR, we will hold the crown of stupidity permanently should any of the banks collapse
Also, since our govt loves using the term "opportunity cost", the opportunity cost of holding onto such depressed assets must be REALLY huge in this aspect.
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'avoid losses" = completely prevented from losing a cent, in my view.
Avoid = completely Prevented.
Is it that just because no losses can be completely prevented justifies losing a lot of money?
You guys can see my point right? hello? singaporeans , you with me on this? same frequency? halllo??
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With all the supposedly talented Ministers at the helm - especially with MM and his appointed cronies supposedly having all the experience in managing a Sovereign Fund - that will give Singapore a head-start over China's National Sovereign Fund, it is a surprise that the "newly established and inexperienced" China Sovereign Fund was able to score a US$10 Billion profit at the end of a year of crisis in 2008.
For that same crisis financial period of 2008-2009, Singapore's GIC managed to lose US$100 Billion - and continue to bleed as seen in the supposedly "paper loss" of US$5 Billion in the UBS shares write-down.
Should Singaporeans be expected to understand all the secrecy behind the workings of the PAP Ministers ?
Why bother to ask Singaporeans not to expect losses with GIC investments ?
Aren't the PAP Ministers the 'creme de la creme' of the Singapore Talent Pool ?
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Originally posted by charlize:
I think people are not asking for investments not to lose money.
Rather, we are concerned about the lack of transparency.
Things that are a "matter of public interest".
thats right....there has to be a independent inquiry on the nature of the lost and the result for the public viewing.... -
it's laughable that ministers like these who manage a GRC and certain parts of the economy and they earn a salary a few times that of Obama.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
it's laughable that ministers like these who manage a GRC and certain parts of the economy and they earn a salary a few times that of Obama.
You know what is most laughable?
That there are Singaporeans who actually believe that these ministers are worth every penny
That there are Singaporeans who actually think that it's actually ok to pay 4-5x more than the market rate for our leaders, never mind that these Singaporeans themselves have to accept market pay or lower
That there are Singaporeans who actually really believe that losing billions is alright, those jokers should still sit in their positions. That Mas Selamat's escape, no minister took responsibility for it.
That there are Singaporeans who actually continuously vote in every election for the PAP, because (1) they are irresponsible in their votes, (2) they fear the PAP, (3) they think there is no better alternative (when they don't EVEN have the guts to try)
The most pitiful is that of us Singaporeans, for there is nothing you can do for people who refuse to help themselves.
I fear what will happen to Singapore in 30 years, given stagnant wages and ever-increasing costs. I fear what will happen to our fellow countrymen, given that very soon, lots of us will lose our jobs at the ripe 'old' age of 40, and have to depend on part-time work to survive.
And yet, if these are the very people who vote for the PAP, shouldn't they deserve the plight they are in?
I would like to see what is going to happen in the next election. I am ready to do my part. But if I see that we still only have 2 oppositions in the govt after that election (and GST increases to 10%), then I will truly give up on my fellow countrymen, and just focus on my own life. After all, I am already out of the vicious cycle.
Those who refuse to save themselves, aren't.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
You know what is most laughable?
That there are Singaporeans who actually believe that these ministers are worth every penny
That there are Singaporeans who actually think that it's actually ok to pay 4-5x more than the market rate for our leaders, never mind that these Singaporeans themselves have to accept market pay or lower
That there are Singaporeans who actually really believe that losing billions is alright, those jokers should still sit in their positions. That Mas Selamat's escape, no minister took responsibility for it.
That there are Singaporeans who actually continuously vote in every election for the PAP, because (1) they are irresponsible in their votes, (2) they fear the PAP, (3) they think there is no better alternative (when they don't EVEN have the guts to try)
The most pitiful is that of us Singaporeans, for there is nothing you can do for people who refuse to help themselves.
I fear what will happen to Singapore in 30 years, given stagnant wages and ever-increasing costs. I fear what will happen to our fellow countrymen, given that very soon, lots of us will lose our jobs at the ripe 'old' age of 40, and have to depend on part-time work to survive.
And yet, if these are the very people who vote for the PAP, shouldn't they deserve the plight they are in?
I would like to see what is going to happen in the next election. I am ready to do my part. But if I see that we still only have 2 oppositions in the govt after that election (and GST increases to 10%), then I will truly give up on my fellow countrymen, and just focus on my own life. After all, I am already out of the vicious cycle.
Those who refuse to save themselves, aren't.
China’s leaders and civil servants now required to declared their personal income and assets
March 7, 2010
Though China lags far behind Singapore in Corruption Perception Index rankings conducted yearly by Transparency International, its government is moving towards greater accountability and transparency which puts Singapore to shame.
In a landmark speech made during China’s National People Congress (NPC) a few days ago, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao calls on greater accountability and transparency to be practised at all levels of the government in order to tackle the scourge of corruption.
Chinese leaders and public officials are now required to declare their personal income and assets including their properties, investments and number of wives to the central government and be scrutinized by the the supervisory authority:
“温家å®�强调，è¦�把å��è…�倡廉建设摆在é‡�è¦�ä½�置。å�„级领导干部特别是高级干部è¦�å�šå†³æ‰§è¡Œä¸å¤®å…³äºŽæŠ¥å‘Šä¸ªäººç»�济和财产，包括收入ã€�ä½�房ã€�投资，以å�Šé…�å�¶å�女从业ç‰é‡�大事项的规定，并自觉接å�—纪检部门的监ç�£ã€‚” (read rest of article here)
The practice has already been adopted by some provinces and counties. For example in January 2009, Ci Xi city of the prosperous coastal province of China revealed the income and assets of some 700 public officials to the public:
“1月ä¸æ—¬ï¼Œæµ™æ±Ÿæ…ˆæºªå¸‚在全国率先施行“廉情公示”，å�‘社会晒出700å��官员的资产家底” (read rest of article here)
This was followed by the revelation of the amount of monies in the government coffers by a county in remote Xinjiang province:
“新疆阿勒泰地区纪委设立的廉政账户也由申报å‰�çš„å‡ ä¸‡å˜æ¬¾ï¼Œæ¿€å¢žè‡³å…¬ç¤ºå‰�çš„76ä¸‡ï¼Œè¿™æ— ç–‘ä»Žä¾§é�¢è¯´æ˜Žäº†è¿™é¡¹åˆ¶åº¦çš„å¨�慑力。”
Premier Wen also promised to create the conditions for citizens to criticize and check on the government and to allow for more debate on politics in the media:
“è¦�深入推进政务公开，完善å�„类公开办事制度和行政å¤�è®®åˆ¶åº¦ï¼Œåˆ›é€ æ�¡ä»¶è®©äººæ°‘批评政府ã€�监ç�£æ”¿åºœï¼Œå�Œæ—¶å……分å�‘挥新闻舆论的监ç�£ä½œç”¨ï¼Œè®©æ�ƒåŠ›åœ¨é˜³å…‰ä¸‹è¿�行。”
Singapore leaders kept boasting about themselves being the most “honest, honorable and incorruptible gentlemen” in the world, but to this very day, they have yet to reveal their personal wealth and assets to the public as is the common practice among many first world countries.
Even the state governments of Penang and Selangor in Malaysia require their state executive councillors to do so.
Though China is a de facto one-party communist state, it is becoming more and more open and liberal. The media is relatively free in certain cosmopolitan cities like Shanghai and Guangzhou and are allowed to report on current affairs and criticize government policies.
For example in Guangzhou, there is a popular current affairs programme focused on exposing the inefficiencies and inadequacies of the city government. Such a programme will be unimaginable in Singapore where its leaders are still worshipped as infallible “gods” by an ignorant, apathetic and brainwashed citizenry.
Action talks louder than words. The PAP leaders should follow the example of China and made public the personal income and assets of all its ministers and senior civil servants. They must also reveal the exact losses incurred by Temasek Holdings and GIC which are making Singapore a laughing stock in the world.
Only then will they truly live up to the practice of accountability, transparency and good governance. Self-praise is no praise really. No government can ever be built or run solely based on “trust”. There is an urgent need for some sort of checks and balances to be institutionalized within the Singapore political milieu.
TEMASEK REVIEW
IIM-B reports 100 per cent placement in five days
10 March 2010
All 270 students from the 2010 batch of the post-graduate programme (PGP) of the Indian Institute of Management-Bangalore (IIM-B) have been placed in just five days since the opening of the process. IIM-B also claims to have completed the final placements ahead of all other IIMs.
As many as 120 reputable firms from and outside the country - from both the traditional and emerging sectors like healthcare and energy - visited the institute during the placement period.
Fifteen new companies took part in the placements this year, recording a 41 per cent increase from last year.
Prominent among the new entrants were: AT Kearney, Alvarez & Marsal, Bain & Co, Booz & Co, Diamond Consulting, Nomura and Temasek Holdings
Nomura is reported to have made the highest offer of Rs80 lakh per annum for the role of vice president finance in an international location. Temasek Holdings offered Rs50-60 lakh per annum.
The students have accepted as many as 15 international offers from companies including Nomura, Temasek, P&G, Enzen, Arvin Meritor and UAE Exchange.
About 45 women in the batch accepted offers in sectors, like investment banking, consulting and PE.
In the lateral placements held for students with two years of work experience, 30 companies made recruitments. A total of 66 offers were received by the students in lateral placement as compared to 50 offers last year.
FROM: domain-b.com
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2 Singapore men committed suicide on 3 March 2010 due to financial distress
March 4, 2010
According to Shin Min Daily yesterday, two Singapore men committed suicide on the same day by jumping off their flats.
The first suicide victim is a taxi-driver by the name of Mr Lim who jumped from his 15 storey kitchen windows at Taman Jurong.
He had lived with his wife and children in the HDB unit where the suicide occurred.
Neighbors described him as slightly plump and friendly to his neighbors.
It was reported that he was under alot of stress due to financial difficulties.
The second victim is a 30 year old Mr Quan who leapt off from 14 storey at a HDB flat at Holland Drive to his death.
He was wearing a white shirt and blue short pants when this tragedy took place.
It is suspected that financial reasons may be a cause too.
Despite being Asia’s second richest country after Japan, Singapore has few social welfare benefits for its citizens though it is able to lose billions of dollars of its reserves in failed overseas investments.
The competition has worsened lately with the relentless influx of foreigners into Singapore who depressed the wages of ordinary Singaporeans, increased the cost of living, especially that of public housing and led to an overall decline in the standards of living.
Foreigners are allowed to compete directly with Singaporeans for jobs and there are no minimum wage or retrenchment benefits for local workers.
Singapore’s octogenarian leader Lee Kuan Yew said during an interview with the National Geographic magazine that it is a “good thing” tha the nation has welcomed so many Chinese immigrants as they are more “hard-driving” and “hard-striving” than locals.
For those Singaporeans who have fallen too far behind in the rat-race as they are not hard-driving enough, suicide may remain the last resort for them.
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Aiya, even good times also got people jump mah, they jump MRT lor, in japan, more peoples jump lor, japs are well known for committing suicide, and that is a real problem for them now. Cannot stand the failure of live, so lame.
Anyway, Uncles, if you not happy with the govt, you can also jump...i recommend you IR resort, be the first and you will be in big news.
Talk here and said there, what can you do, at the end of the day, it is a PAP answering another PAP, it is all part of the game, the show game, this temasek review ar??? really gives stupid news, at least you said, Chiam asked, that will be much different. This are all premediated reports ya. Open your bloody eye hor
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Aiya, even good times also got people jump mah, they jump MRT lor, in japan, more peoples jump lor, japs are well known for committing suicide, and that is a real problem for them now. Cannot stand the failure of live, so lame.
Anyway, Uncles, if you not happy with the govt, you can also jump...i recommend you IR resort, be the first and you will be in big news.
Talk here and said there, what can you do, at the end of the day, it is a PAP answering another PAP, it is all part of the game, the show game, this temasek review ar??? really gives stupid news, at least you said, Chiam asked, that will be much different. This are all premediated reports ya. Open your bloody eye hor
YOu demonstrate how to jump down, talk here no action no example from you. Have your washed your chau puay cheebye with dettol?
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again, aiyo, i just bought a quick pick toto ticket ok...
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Originally posted by angel7030:
again, aiyo, i just bought a quick pick toto ticket ok...
Wish you suay suay. GEt on your way find Lim suay suay or Jack Neo lim kopi, . -
hi angel,
Don't say like that leh. If not happy with govt must jump then govt must again bring in thousands of foreigners to replace the number of unhappy citizens who have jumped or will be jumping.
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aunty angel 7030
why you cannot jump down cos your downstair fucking smelly - cause air pollution
you go and jump at other countries
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Originally posted by Checker.:
aunty angel 7030
why you cannot jump down cos your downstair fucking smelly - cause air pollution
you go and jump at other countries
Which minister staying on top floor, angel7030 will go there jump to pollute -
The ironic of this post, as you all can read....please can any one tell me if this is not a movie,
A PAP ministers asking another PAP ministers about our investment, what kind of joke is this, just like your sister asking another sister about the family saving issue in the public, all these are pre rehearsal.
As for jumping, it can happen from many reason, money can be one of them, so is love, failure in business, love, education, etc etc..it can be a social or individual problem that lead to jumping. Life is only once, money can be earn. I can pity those jumper, but on the other hand, i pity their family more than them, the father, the mother, the childrens, the wife,...siblings etc etc...in fact, when i was in the nunnery, the abbotress told me, the biggest sin in life is to take one own life. No animals will do that except human.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
You know what is most laughable?
That there are Singaporeans who actually believe that these ministers are worth every penny
That there are Singaporeans who actually think that it's actually ok to pay 4-5x more than the market rate for our leaders, never mind that these Singaporeans themselves have to accept market pay or lower
That there are Singaporeans who actually really believe that losing billions is alright, those jokers should still sit in their positions. That Mas Selamat's escape, no minister took responsibility for it.
That there are Singaporeans who actually continuously vote in every election for the PAP, because (1) they are irresponsible in their votes, (2) they fear the PAP, (3) they think there is no better alternative (when they don't EVEN have the guts to try)
The most pitiful is that of us Singaporeans, for there is nothing you can do for people who refuse to help themselves.
I fear what will happen to Singapore in 30 years, given stagnant wages and ever-increasing costs. I fear what will happen to our fellow countrymen, given that very soon, lots of us will lose our jobs at the ripe 'old' age of 40, and have to depend on part-time work to survive.
And yet, if these are the very people who vote for the PAP, shouldn't they deserve the plight they are in?
I would like to see what is going to happen in the next election. I am ready to do my part. But if I see that we still only have 2 oppositions in the govt after that election (and GST increases to 10%), then I will truly give up on my fellow countrymen, and just focus on my own life. After all, I am already out of the vicious cycle.
Those who refuse to save themselves, aren't.
The fellow people you mention are most probably civil servant liked SAF regular who has a stable income, teacher or any government agency. As long as they don't do something extraordinary and just passed their time, every month get their pay. They are happy liao. They are scared to go against the government. They have the selfish mentality of as long as other die and I am not, it's ok...But from my chat with most of these civil servant, their work is very stressful. Most of the time, they are staying is just for the sake of stable money. They have a huge debt on themselves like University loan, housing loan and car loan. Plus children, blah, blah... They can't afford to lose their civil servant job.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
The ironic of this post, as you all can read....please can any one tell me if this is not a movie,
A PAP ministers asking another PAP ministers about our investment, what kind of joke is this, just like your sister asking another sister about the family saving issue in the public, all these are pre rehearsal.
As for jumping, it can happen from many reason, money can be one of them, so is love, failure in business, love, education, etc etc..it can be a social or individual problem that lead to jumping. Life is only once, money can be earn. I can pity those jumper, but on the other hand, i pity their family more than them, the father, the mother, the childrens, the wife,...siblings etc etc...in fact, when i was in the nunnery, the abbotress told me, the biggest sin in life is to take one own life. No animals will do that except human.
Fake charbo, you are a taiwanese guy, right? Stop talking rubbish la. Your words has no credibility. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Aiya, even good times also got people jump mah, they jump MRT lor, in japan, more peoples jump lor, japs are well known for committing suicide, and that is a real problem for them now. Cannot stand the failure of live, so lame.
Anyway, Uncles, if you not happy with the govt, you can also jump...i recommend you IR resort, be the first and you will be in big news.
Talk here and said there, what can you do, at the end of the day, it is a PAP answering another PAP, it is all part of the game, the show game, this temasek review ar??? really gives stupid news, at least you said, Chiam asked, that will be much different. This are all premediated reports ya. Open your bloody eye hor
Angel you are misleading. 1st you say ppl not happy with govt can jump now you changed to say "jumping can happen from many reason"
Like that even worse. Garhmen will be so busy opening floodgates to replace thousands of citizens unhappy with garhmen + those who jumped for unknown reasons.
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Originally posted by zenden9:
Fake charbo, you are a taiwanese guy, right? Stop talking rubbish la. Your words has no credibility.
HEre display lj and cb everyday, nobody interested -
Originally posted by soul_rage:
You know what is most laughable?
That there are Singaporeans who actually believe that these ministers are worth every penny
That there are Singaporeans who actually think that it's actually ok to pay 4-5x more than the market rate for our leaders, never mind that these Singaporeans themselves have to accept market pay or lower
That there are Singaporeans who actually really believe that losing billions is alright, those jokers should still sit in their positions. That Mas Selamat's escape, no minister took responsibility for it.
That there are Singaporeans who actually continuously vote in every election for the PAP, because (1) they are irresponsible in their votes, (2) they fear the PAP, (3) they think there is no better alternative (when they don't EVEN have the guts to try)
The most pitiful is that of us Singaporeans, for there is nothing you can do for people who refuse to help themselves.
I fear what will happen to Singapore in 30 years, given stagnant wages and ever-increasing costs. I fear what will happen to our fellow countrymen, given that very soon, lots of us will lose our jobs at the ripe 'old' age of 40, and have to depend on part-time work to survive.
And yet, if these are the very people who vote for the PAP, shouldn't they deserve the plight they are in?
I would like to see what is going to happen in the next election. I am ready to do my part. But if I see that we still only have 2 oppositions in the govt after that election (and GST increases to 10%), then I will truly give up on my fellow countrymen, and just focus on my own life. After all, I am already out of the vicious cycle.
Those who refuse to save themselves, aren't.
We have MPs asking ministers tough questions like how to maintain healthy hair during parliament sessions, so rest assured Singaporeans will be well taken care of in the future.
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PAP Minister: “Not realistic” for GIC to avoid losses
Then minister pay highest in world is realistic?