Is there a loophole in HDB policy for foreigners?
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Hi all
I talked to a class mate of mine, she is from China. Pretty and talented, but bad possess bad English.
Anyway my query is, are foreigners allowed to purchase HDB units, not as a direct owner, but indirectly with other fellow Singaporeans?Cos she mentioned that she has intentions to buy, and is contacting her agent to do it and even asks me to join in....
I hope what she is doing is not part of the cost for the rocketed houising prices..
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When will Singapore’s public housing bubble burst?
Temasek Review
In a speech made last week to Tanjong Pagar residents, Singapore’s octogenarian leader Lee Kuan Yew admitted unwittingly that Singapore’s housing market is heavily dependent on foreigners.
“To continue to grow and prosper while slowing the intake of foreign workers, the same number of Singaporean workers must produce more. Otherwise, there will be a deflating economy, and knock-on effects on jobs and asset values. Instead of many job opportunities and rising asset values, including prices for resale HDB flats, the reverse will happen… fewer jobs, lower salaries, lower asset prices… pay will fall and so will the number of jobs and promotion,” he said.
The prices of HDB flats have sky-rocketed in recent years due to rising demand fueled by immigration amidst a limited supply of new flats.
Only about 3,100 flats were built in the year 2008 when there were more than 70,000 PRs and 20,000 new citizens in the same year alone.
Prices of resale flats increased by 8.2 per cent with Cash-Over-Valuation (COVs) doubling the last quarter of 2009, a year which saw Singapore mired in recession.
Recently launched Build-to-Order (BTO) flats were oversubscribed by more than 10 times, an indication of how acute the housing shortage crisis has become.
Government leaders have remained oblivious to the inherent dangers posed by the rising prices and sing in unison to the official stance that it helps to “generate wealth” for Singaporeans.
Common sense will tell us that it is impossible for prices to continue going up and it is only a matter of time before the prices drop.
A property bubble in the public housing market has been building for quite some time and Singaporeans will be “caught off guard” when the crunch comes.
According to figures obtained from HDB Infoweb, the median prices of resale flats have doubled in the last four years when it took nearly a decade for it to do so.
While prices have already reached astronomical levels with some property agents asking nearly a million dollars for 5-room flats in prime districts, the wages of ordinary Singaporeans have lagged far behind the rise in housing prices.
At some point, the market will have to crash because there will no buyers for the overpriced flats. So the question on the mind of everybody is: when will Singapore’s public housing bubble burst?
Probably in the year 2013 or earlier.
Stung by criticisms from Singaporeans at its failure to provide adequate housing for first time home buyers, HDB has predictably increase the supply of flats in a classical knee-jerk response to the housing shortage.
Four BTO projects have already been launched this year with a projected number of 12,000 new BTO flats being built which will be completed in three to four years time, earliest by 2013.
A glut of new private and public housing will be completed in 2013 thereby increasing the supply of flats which will surely cause the prices to drop even at the present rate of immigration.
Between now and then, who can guarantee that there will not be another global financial crisis?
Singapore’s economy is heavily dependent on foreign workers and investments which explains why it became the first Asian country to enter into a recession in 2008.
Any slight knock to the global economy will turn back crucial foreign direct investments (FDIs) from Singapore leading to an exodus of foreigners with disastrous consequences for the housing market.
About 6o to 70 per cent of buyers of Singapore properties in the private sector are foreigners while they make up about 20 per cent in the HDB resale market.
As their values have already been overly inflated, the resultant drop in prices will be equally as much if not more.
There is a good chance that prices may be rolled back to the 2006 – 2008 levels meaning a drop by nearly 50 per cent which will plunge many Singaporeans into financial distress.
The public housing market had crashed once in 1996 and this time it would be worse as prices had far exceeded the 1996 levels.
Singaporeans will have to pray that foreigners continue to buy up properties in Singapore to keep their asset values going up.
Unfortunately, with the emergence of China and India as economic powerhouses, the attractiveness of Singapore as magnet for foreign investment will continue to decrease in the next few years.
With lower economic growth, declining wages and fewer investment opportunities looming ahead, will Singapore’s public housing market continue to soar as before?
When the crash finally comes, many Singaporeans will see their entire life savings being wiped out in an instance.
Perhaps that is the only way to wake up apathetic Singaporeans from their slumber and revamp the entire system once and for all.
HDB to finally consider introducing rules to curb speculation in public housing market
After months of denying that the prices of HDB flats have spiralled out of control, National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan finally relented and said last week “the Government is looking into ’something’ regarding measures for the HDB market.”
Though he did not reveal the details, property experts interviewed by the Straits Times “reckoned the Government could extend the minimum occupation period for those who bought their flats with bank loans as well as make checks to ensure owners are not flouting the rules.”
Mr Mah has received alot of flak lately over his inept handling of the matter which has caused considerable distress and anguish to ordinary Singaporeans who are increasingly priced out of the public housing market, especially the resale one.
The prices of HDB flats have almost doubled in the last few years, with that of resale flats hitting a record high in June 2009 when the economy was mired in recession.
The abnormal situation is caused largely by the lack of foresight of HDB to plan well ahead to build more flats to meet the expected increase in demand for housing fueled by uncontrolled immigration.
Recent launches of BTO flats are more than 5 to 10 times subscribed even in less popular areas like Choa Chua Kang, an indication of how serious the housing shortage has become.
Only slightly more than 11,000 new flats were built between the years 2006 – 2008 when there were over 90,000 PRs and 20,000 new citizens alone in 2008:
[Source: HDB Financial Report 2008/2009]
Below is a graph illustrating how the rise in the prices of resale flats coincides with the rise in the number of foreigners in Singapore between the years 2000 and 2008, courtesy of Kojakbt, the moderator of 3in1kopitiam:
Due to the ruling party’s liberal immigration policy, foreigners now made up 36 per cent of Singapore’s population, up from 14 per cent in 1990.
The prices of HDB flats are kept artificially high by building less flats than needed to meet the demand and increasing the population via immigration.
Unlike in other countries, PRs are allowed to purchase public housing in Singapore from the open market with few restrictions. Some PRs have “spoilt” the market by over-paying for the flats. An Indonesian PR was reported in the media to pay $653,000 for a 4-room resale flat in Queenstown when he could well afford a condominium.
According to official figures, PRs form 20 per cent of the buyers in the resale market though some real estate agencies like ERA put the figure higher at 40 per cent.
The state media has been trying to deflect public anger from the government and PRs by pointing the fingers at private property owners for snapping up the resale flats when they constitute only about 5 – 7 per cent of the buyers.
With elections around the corner and public sentiments fast turning against the ruling party, HDB has to be seen as “doing something” to placate angry Singaporeans.
Mr Mah has to act quickly so that he will not be “caught offguard” again. As for Singaporeans who bought the flats as such obscene prices, they will have to pray that hard that prices will continue to rise and not drop in the next few years with more flats being released into the market.
Better buy with your wife or husband only - not your foreign friends
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I guess in 10 years time, most Singaporeans will be able to afford million dollar HDB flats on their $2k a month salary.
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Loopholes fucking plently
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Originally posted by shrekho:
Hi all
I talked to a class mate of mine, she is from China. Pretty and talented, but bad possess bad English.
Anyway my query is, are foreigners allowed to purchase HDB units, not as a direct owner, but indirectly with other fellow Singaporeans?Cos she mentioned that she has intentions to buy, and is contacting her agent to do it and even asks me to join in....
I hope what she is doing is not part of the cost for the rocketed houising prices..
To answer your question. Generally, the following applies. (I say, generally, because family unit can be straight-forward or complex entity).
PR are not allowed to buy direct (new) HDB flat from HDB.
However, there are exceptions. Such as:-
a) She is married to a Singaporean (pink ID).
b) She is able to convert her status from PR to citizen.
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c) 2 siblings PR can buy too
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Originally posted by laffin123:
c) 2 siblings PR can buy too
Then why 2 single Singaporean siblings below the age of 35 cannot buy leh?
Why?
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Originally posted by charlize:
Then why 2 single Singaporean siblings below the age of 35 cannot buy leh?
Why?
Loopholes.
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Originally posted by laffin123:
c) 2 siblings PR can buy too
If any of the loop holes she is exploiting is true, then I will advise her not to buy. How can a foreigner use Singaporean's privilege for investments at the citizen's expense?
If she really insist on doing it, just because everyone else is doing so...... Hmm.... a good laugh will do....
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I checked the HDB website. The eligibility conditions are:Citizenship
- You must be a Singapore Citizen
- Your family nucleus must comprise at least another Singapore Citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident.
So er two siblings PR, I don't think so....
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Originally posted by Clivebenss:
Loopholes.
This is not a loophole.
This is government telling single singaporeans who serve NS and pay taxes that single PRs deserve better.
Really.
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Originally posted by 4sg:I checked the HDB website. The eligibility conditions are:Citizenship
- You must be a Singapore Citizen
- Your family nucleus must comprise at least another Singapore Citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident.
So er two siblings PR, I don't think so....
PR siblings is for resale flat.
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Originally posted by charlize:
This is not a loophole.
This is government telling single singaporeans who serve NS and pay taxes that single PRs deserve better.
Really.
You mean the reservice has not been completed.
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Originally posted by charlize:
PR siblings is for resale flat.
Thank you for correcting me. 2 PR siblings is for resale flat purchase.
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Originally posted by shrekho:
Hi all
I talked to a class mate of mine, she is from China. Pretty and talented, but bad possess bad English.
Anyway my query is, are foreigners allowed to purchase HDB units, not as a direct owner, but indirectly with other fellow Singaporeans?Cos she mentioned that she has intentions to buy, and is contacting her agent to do it and even asks me to join in....
I hope what she is doing is not part of the cost for the rocketed houising prices..
PR can buy resale, infact, they can only buy resale, but they don't get the housing grants and rebates that are given only to singaporeans, which can be very substaintial, housing grant is 30k at least, 40k if near to parents.
plus, they pay the full rates for any upgrading works done in the future, so when upgrading comes knocking, these chaps would either vote "no", cough out 10 to 30k or they'd have to scramble to sell the house before the bill comes.
if you want to blame skyrocketing resale prices, blame the rich PRs who come in and spoil the market, the lower income PRs are actually farked a lot worse than Singaporeans when it comes to housing.
I know a young malaysian couple, both PRs here, both technician level working in Tuas, combined income not much over 3k a month, have only been here for a few years, so not much in the CPF and not much in the kitty either. They are looking for a 3 room flat cos baby on the way soon, and renting is costing them 1k a month. But with the average flat asking for at least 30k COV, plus the loan shortfall top up they'd have to fork out, they are looking at 50 to 80k in cash just to buy a 3-room resale flat. This is the sorry cases you never hear about, the genuine PRs who want to sink roots here, not those economic migrants who just come here to shit all over us and then fark off to australia or canada.
I advised the couple to quickly convert to citizenship, else they are really screwed over.
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Originally posted by charlize:
PR siblings is for resale flat.
Sorry my mistakeForeigner who wants to buy resale HDB is free to do so by the govt. No restriction whatsoever.
I know one China doctor who is working as lab tech in Sg. He, wife and child are all foreigners. Dead against turning PR or citizen dispite numerous attempts by our govt to woo him and his family.
By now, his is owning a HDB flat for 15 yrs.
One day, after a friendly meal, I asked him why he don't turn PR. He revealed that he came because of his pay. His pay was 5 times that back home.But his reason for staying in Sg for 15 years is his biggest joy in investing in a HDB flat. You see, he found a gold mine here (better than his pay motivation in coming).
And he is going to make sure his gold is for him to keep by not turning PR.
He will be going back to Beijing and retire rich, comfy and wealthy ie cpf + selling flat.
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Oh
My impression of her is she is one who will fark off to aussie n canada. She is the selfish type, who thinks only of herself and don't bother helping and leech on others when she needs.
Anyway if she really buys one unit for investment at citizen's expense, no more friend or classmate relationship.....
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Originally posted by 4sg:
Sorry my mistakeForeigner who wants to buy resale HDB is free to do so by the govt. No restriction whatsoever.
I know one China doctor who is working as lab tech in Sg. He, wife and child are all foreigners. Dead against turning PR or citizen dispite numerous attempts by our govt to woo him and his family.
By now, his is owning a HDB flat for 15 yrs.
One day, after a friendly meal, I asked him why he don't turn PR. He revealed that he came because of his pay. His pay was 5 times that back home.But his reason for staying in Sg for 15 years is his biggest joy in investing in a HDB flat. You see, he found a gold mine here (better than his pay motivation in coming).
And he is going to make sure his gold is for him to keep by not turning PR.
He will be going back to Beijing and retire rich, comfy and wealthy ie cpf + selling flat.
these are the eligibility schemes to purchase a resale HDB flat, from the HDB website.
all of these requires at least one party to be a Singapore citizen or PR.
Can you tell me which of these schemes your ah tiong friend falls under ?
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatEligibilitytobuy?OpenDocument
If your ah tiong friend somehow managed to own a resale flat despite these restrictions, please explain how did he do it, or please expose him.
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Originally posted by charlize:
This is not a loophole.
This is government telling single singaporeans who serve NS and pay taxes that single PRs deserve better.
Really.
this is a sign that you anyhow hamtam without really knowing anything at all ....
did you even bother to click and read on the links ?
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Originally posted by Fatum:
these are the eligibility schemes to purchase a resale HDB flat, from the HDB website.
all of these requires at least one party to be a Singapore citizen or PR.
Can you tell me which of these schemes your ah tiong friend falls under ?
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatEligibilitytobuy?OpenDocument
If your ah tiong friend somehow managed to own a resale flat despite these restrictions, please explain how did he do it, or please expose him.
Fatum,
I read thru your link. I don't wish to debate or argue or whatever. Sorry for saying this but I believe these conditions meant for us, the citizen. And not the foreigners.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Then why 2 single Singaporean siblings below the age of 35 cannot buy leh?
Why?
why not ?
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/fi10/fi10321p.nsf/w/BuyResaleFlatSiblingsScheme?OpenDocument
you know how to read this, don't you ?
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Perhaps u explain in a table format, bulleted and not more than 100 words. :D
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Originally posted by 4sg:
Fatum,
I read thru your link. I don't wish to debate or argue or whatever. Sorry for saying this but I believe these conditions meant for us, the citizen. And not the foreigners.
now wait ! don't run away yet ...
so you're saying that despite these explicit HDB rules across all the eligibility schemes which say that to buy and own a resale flat, at least one party must be either a singaporean, or a permanent resident, your foreigner friend, together with his entire foreigner family, still managed to own an HDB flat ...........
you do not want to wonder why ? .....
I'm seriously wondering about the existence of your ah tiong friend here ....
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Originally posted by shrekho:
Perhaps u explain in a table format, bulleted and not more than 100 words. :D
in other words, don't believe the bullshit about foreigners owning HDB flats without restrictions etc. Foreigners even face restrictions on owning private property ! much less public housing units !
all the informaiton is available to the public, in the open domain, if anyone actually bothers to read them, instead of listening to this and that fellow. if you plow through all that, you'll realize that Singapore citizens really do get a leg up when it comes to housing.
The basic rule is, only when at least one party is a singapore citizen can you get a flat direct from HDB, for the resale market, you much either be a singapore citizen or SPR.
All the special schemes, and all the 30, 40, 50, 60k housing grants and rebates, like two singles siblings buying a flat, or the singles scheme, etc are for SINGAPOREANS ONLY.
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Originally posted by Fatum:
now wait ! don't run away yet ...
so you're saying that despite these explicit HDB rules across all the eligibility schemes which say that to buy and own a resale flat, at least one party must be either a singaporean, or a permanent resident, your foreigner friend, together with his entire foreigner family, still managed to own an HDB flat ...........
you do not want to wonder why ? .....
I'm seriously wondering about the existence of your ah tiong friend here ....
I pm you. My Chinaman friend is my working mate. I don't come here to lie OK!