Is voting out PAP answers to our problems?
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Right now, pple are busy working and supporting families.
No time for this (support opp and bring down pap).
Too many loans and bills to pay, work and work like mad pple.
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Voting PAP out may not be the answer to all our problems, but at least it can reduce the severity of the problems. Case in point, savings from their MILLION DOLLARS salaries can be used for improving the living conditions of the poor.
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the main contention is who has better solutions to the issues...all we know now is that everything is rising at a speed under the iron rule...costs, standards, etc..u name it...but wages/ benefits are meagre or could not even smell....which the ministers' big fat salaries did not promise us the fruits of our labour....hence, the increasing need for oppositions to question their policies....
the recent ESC recommendations could be summarized as further squeezing us to produce at miserable same or lower wages to payback the mega losses (our money) incurred by the GICs... with sweet words of quality of life, vibrancy, cut back on foreign workers, cleaner and transparent leadership and what have you.....what nice Chinese New Year Resolutions...anyone could compile niceties...
we would need more and stronger oppositions in the coming elections....
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Originally posted by likeyou:
Right now, pple are busy working and supporting families.
No time for this (support opp and bring down pap).
Too many loans and bills to pay, work and work like mad pple.
the PAP want people to be like busy bees..............too busy trying just to survive and no time and energy to be interested in politics............that's why so many kinds of taxes on the people.............taxes come in the form of GST, higher housing, medical, etc etc...........
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Originally posted by Chew Bakar:
A word of advice:
A man of no stand is a man wasted.
Maybe a man can stand , maybe not if its dysfunctional. If people continue to carry stones and build bricks for the egyptian lord , then let them be. We can thank PAP leaders for not letting SG be part of Malaysia in the very beginning. That is the reason why retiring in Singapore is almost impossible. -
Originally posted by OH-FF:
Maybe a man can stand , maybe not if its dysfunctional. If people continue to carry stones and build bricks for the egyptian lord , then let them be. We can thank PAP leaders for not letting SG be part of Malaysia in the very beginning. That is the reason why retiring in Singapore is almost impossible.
Can we thank the PAP leaders for "not letting SG be part of Malaysia in the very beginning" ?Where did you pick up this history from, or is this an intentional sarcastic view ?
Anyway, just to set the record straight for those unable to appreciate your efforts, the real events that remain uncolored are as follows:-
Singapore joined Malaysia due to LKY's insistence - to satisfy his own ambitions - and a ‘National Referendum was conducted in 1962’ (*1) that gave no option to any Singaporean to object to the merger.
Many political, business and community leaders were apprehensive to the dominant and unequal conditions insisted by the UMNO political leadership for the creation of a larger Malaysian entity - as the UMNO leadership was satisfied with the dominance of their Malay population in the small Federation of Malaya.
LKY insisted to the Colonial Government for full independence of Singapore through a merger of Singapore with Malaya; and to make it acceptable to Tunku Abdul Rahman - LKY proposed for a larger Malaysia that will include the Federation of Malaya, the States of Sarawak, Sabah (then known as British North Borneo), and Brunei - and Singapore (all under British Colonial Rule).
The Sultan of Brunei declined the proposal, and the Tunku remain attracted to this new idea of a larger Malaysia - which only received the objection and anger from Indonesia that started the military konfrontasi, and the political friction with Philippines who continued to have a claim to the state of Sabah.
As part of LKY's insistence to have Singapore merged with Malaysia, he collaborated with the British Colonial Government and Tunku Abdul Rahman to have all political opponents arrested under ‘Operation Cold Store’ (*2)
Finally, Singapore was kicked out of Malaysia due to the racial riots and continued racial verbal slug-fest at the national levels between LKY and the extremists UMNO Malay political leadership - who LKY labelled as ULTRAs.
Did LKY pulled Singapore out of Malaysia ?
If he did - he should not have cried on prime time national TV when announcing this separation.
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The present political and economic situation in Singapore is quite similar to the situation in the USA last year but on a different scale of severity and with differing set of problems.
Even if a new Political Party should step into the picture - like Obama stepping into the Presidency - it cannot solve the present malaise overnight, when it had taken 52 years of PAP's arrogance to bring Singaporeans to our knees.
In 2004, when LHL finally took over the reins of political leadership from GCT, he had said that there will be no sacred cows to bring about the necessary change that dogged Singapore since the economic crisis in 1987, and which continue to this day.
LHL was constrained by the political interests of the PAP and perhaps even LKY, and prefer to keep the status quo with minimal change - preferring not to slaughter some sacred cows, which were best to be nurtured to either LKY's death or ours.
Any new political party that is given the opportunity to takeover the political reins from the PAP - will show ourselves that as Singaporeans, we are confident of our future with new leaders who may not have the political experience, but as a Nation - we are willing to accept the challenges to face the unknown together, without their own OLD political INTERESTS that end up hindering OUR collective interests going forward.
Singaporeans will have to take back our future from the controls of LKY and his new PAP selected appointees - who have been given the monopoly of running our lives since LKY and his Old Guards stepped down but screwed up big time since 1990.
How many more external factors can be blamed - for the short-sightedness that were no better then the PAP's own fears towards real change that were in conflict with the necessary actions needed to meet the new set of real challenges on the horizon ?
Singapore under the new PAP leadership has been responding and not anticipating challenges, playing catch-up instead of being innovative, repairing the damages instead of preparing for the future.
If the new team offered by the PAP is no better in experience and qualification then what is available from the other Alternative Political Parties - should Singaporeans hesistate in any decisions to take back the initiative from the PAP ?
Ministers like Mah Bow Tan has been given more then 10 years as a Minister - first in the Transport Ministry and now in National Development - has he achieved anything that is positive to prepare our future, or has he not been messing up our lives, and spend more time repairing the damages that have been inflicted on us ?
What has Lim Swee Say done as a Minister without Portfolio and heading NTUC ? Does he seriously deserve the 2 Million dollar salary paid since he became a Minister ?
What about PAP MP Teo Ser Luck - what has he contributed to Singapore society or his Constituency, other then being a parliamentary seat warmer to block the seat from being won by someone from the Alternative Party ? He did lead the Dragon Boat Team to Cambodia and stay low profile after the disastrous events that saw several members of the rowing team being drowned.
If a summary can be made of the job performance of the various second generation Ministers and Members of Parliament since they were first selected by the PAP - perhaps the Singapore Electorate can be more knowledgeable as to how these Ministers and MPs have affected our lives.
We are at the same cross-road as the generations in the 1950s - when they were asked to decide for their own future with self-government - and again in the 1960s - when they were "pushed" to accept a false referendum to support LKY's merger with Malaysia even against the objections of the political, business and community leaders - who knew the reality of the political landscape in Malaya better then LKY.
Despite being kicked out of Malaysia, the 1960s generation continued to support LKY - as they had wanted to show national solidarity in the face of the national insult by the Malayan UMNO leadership to throw Singaporeans out despite our trust in the political merger.
The insult was more then the disappointment in trusting LKY's skewed judgment to join Malaysia, and the false referendum was overlooked.
The Atlernative Political Parties are like anyone of us now - applying for a job when the employer has no clue as to our abilities except for the paper qualifications that can be presented, the superficial voice and facial presentation, and the conversation of ideas exchanged during the interview.
How much leeway or opportunities we are prepared to give to the Alternative Political Parties - should be the same that we ask for ourselves at that critical job interview.
Our future is at stake - as much as we need that job, we are also at the cross road to give ourselves the new opportunities to make our lives better and not to return to the same old ways of conducting business - and with ourselves having no say.
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Originally posted by OH-FF:
Maybe a man can stand , maybe not if its dysfunctional. If people continue to carry stones and build bricks for the egyptian lord , then let them be. We can thank PAP leaders for not letting SG be part of Malaysia in the very beginning. That is the reason why retiring in Singapore is almost impossible.PAP is not the only thing that shine in Sg.
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Originally posted by As romanista2001:
the PAP want people to be like busy bees..............too busy trying just to survive and no time and energy to be interested in politics............that's why so many kinds of taxes on the people.............taxes come in the form of GST, higher housing, medical, etc etc...........
Haaa...I am one of the bees....supporting family members and kids.Make sure kids has the money to go to school. Make sure bills are pay on time. Make sure parents has money to spend. Make sure there are foods on the table and make sure kids and spouses are ok and well.
But what I hate is the ever increasing of bills.
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Originally posted by likeyou:
Haaa...I am one of the bees....supporting family members and kids.Make sure kids has the money to go to school. Make sure bills are pay on time. Make sure parents has money to spend. Make sure there are foods on the table and make sure kids and spouses are ok and well.
But what I hate is the ever increasing of bills.
no wonder they push out the old Teamy again.
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LKY boh bian becoz he don't want to be under the thumb of Malays mah..............since the Brits support him as they also don't want S'pore to be under muslim rule so LKY dare to take S'pore independent lor..........we're still a British colony, LKY is only governor................
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Originally posted by As romanista2001:
LKY boh bian becoz he don't want to be under the thumb of Malays mah..............since the Brits support him as they also don't want S'pore to be under muslim rule so LKY dare to take S'pore independent lor..........we're still a British colony, LKY is only governor................
sure??
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No more GREAT BRITAIN liao now we all talking about GRC in Singapore
GREAT REPUBLIC OF CHINA.
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From the following chart - (see below) - of Members of Parliament of the Eleventh Parliament that were elected in 2006, one can see the overwhelming dominance of the PAP.
How many are practically seat warmers - without any abilities to even vote with their conscience for the interests of their Singapore Constituents that elected them, but to subject themselves to be forced by the Party Parliamentary Whip to vote according to the instructions of the PAP Central Executive Committee ?
Is it any wonder that ridiculous legislations are rubber stamped into Laws - that simply bastardised the Singapore Constitution and make it easier for a PAP Government to have a grip on every aspect of Singaporean lives ?
http://www.parliament.gov.sg/AboutUs/images/composite_a1_20090903.pdf
To answer the question - "Is voting out the PAP answers to our problems" - we must ask ourselves :-
What are the problems we are facing ?
Who caused the problems ?
How long have these problems been around ?
Who were the main players since these problems existed ?
Were any actions taken to face the problems ?
How effective were these actions ?
Are the same problems still around to weigh us down ?
Should our lives and livelihood not been even better over the last 10, 20, 30 and 40 years - with a single dominant political party controlling Parliamentary process ?
If life has deteriorated even when Parliamentary process is controlled by a single dominant political party - should we not have a stronger "Check and Balance" process to have real debates and parliamentary votes cast for the interests of Singaporeans ?
What is being offered by the Alternative Parties ?
Visit the other thread : ‘Reform Party Responds to the Economic Strategies Committee’
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Originally posted by Atobe:
From the following chart - (see below) - of Members of Parliament of the Eleventh Parliament that were elected in 2006, one can see the overwhelming dominance of the PAP.
How many are practically seat warmers - without any abilities to even vote with their conscience for the interests of their Singapore Constituents that elected them, but to subject themselves to be forced by the Party Parliamentary Whip to vote according to the instructions of the PAP Central Executive Committee ?
Is it any wonder that ridiculous legislations are rubber stamped into Laws - that simply bastardised the Singapore Constitution and make it easier for a PAP Government to have a grip on every aspect of Singaporean lives ?
http://www.parliament.gov.sg/AboutUs/images/composite_a1_20090903.pdf
To answer the question - "Is voting out the PAP answers to our problems" - we must ask ourselves :-
What are the problems we are facing ?
Who caused the problems ?
How long have these problems been around ?
Who were the main players since these problems existed ?
Were any actions taken to face the problems ?
How effective were these actions ?
Are the same problems still around to weigh us down ?
Should our lives and livelihood not been even better over the last 10, 20, 30 and 40 years - with a single dominant political party controlling Parliamentary process ?
If life has deteriorated even when Parliamentary process is controlled by a single dominant political party - should we not have a stronger "Check and Balance" process to have real debates and parliamentary votes cast for the interests of Singaporeans ?
What is being offered by the Alternative Parties ?
Visit the other thread : ‘Reform Party Responds to the Economic Strategies Committee’
As long as PAP exists, the problems we are facing will continue to exist. In general, people in sg do not think that much about politics and how politics is affecting their life. They have superficial view of it.
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actually, open your eyes..
the MIW are a bunch of money-grubbing mercenaries.. voting them out would be great.. fuck! i'm just grinning myself silly thinking about the bunch of assholes bring thrown out!
however, we have to look at the alternatives..
if you throw some idiots like that Lead Shaker guy or CSJ into power, i'm betting Singapore will be in ruins pretty quickly...
the hope for Singapore is that the opposition gets their acts together.. and stop with the petty bickering which blighted the hell out of so many elections in the past..
also, they have to figure out who within their ranks are damaging them..
already WP has done its work kicking out Gomez..
mostly, it's a terrible thing to say but i'm still hoping the old bleached zombie of Ah Meng, Lau Lee kicks the bucket before the elections.. it'll then be fricken interesting times for our country
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Originally posted by the Bear:
actually, open your eyes..
the MIW are a bunch of money-grubbing mercenaries.. voting them out would be great.. fuck! i'm just grinning myself silly thinking about the bunch of assholes bring thrown out!
however, we have to look at the alternatives..
if you throw some idiots like that Lead Shaker guy or CSJ into power, i'm betting Singapore will be in ruins pretty quickly...
the hope for Singapore is that the opposition gets their acts together.. and stop with the petty bickering which blighted the hell out of so many elections in the past..
also, they have to figure out who within their ranks are damaging them..
already WP has done its work kicking out Gomez..
mostly, it's a terrible thing to say but i'm still hoping the old bleached zombie of Ah Meng, Lau Lee kicks the bucket before the elections.. it'll then be fricken interesting times for our country
There are far too many people not into CSJ leading the nation, so there is no worry for this. Somehow, people need to give some oppsitions a chance to do their part to serve the nation, without which we will forever be stuck with PAP.
Yes, mann, yes, I, too, is hoping the old heck passes on before election.
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
As long as PAP exists, the problems we are facing will continue to exist. In general, people in sg do not think that much about politics and how politics is affecting their life. They have superficial view of it.
Your view is correct, and the situation is due to 52 years of LKY's "doctrine" being applied - 'in filling the stomach to dull the mind' - as he feared a politically concious population. This explains for his reluctance to have a highly educated population during the 1960s through the 1970s, as seen with the closure of Nayang University which he suspect is the breeding ground of Communism.In the 1970s, applicants for a place in the then University of Singapore - must first obtain a 'Suitability Certificate' from the Home Ministry before the application is accepted and approved.
It was not until the late 1980s and 1990s - when it was realised that more university graduates are needed for a "high-tech, value added" economy - which explains for a frenzy of new universities being allowed to exist, with the re-opening of Nanyang University as NTU.
Still, LKY continue to fear a politically concious population, and continue to push for politics to be conducted at two levels - local and national.
According to his expressed simplistic views, he felt that Singaporeans clamour for political space can be appeased by allowing Singaporean political participation with 'mini-referendums' in Neighborhood Upgrading Plans, local council management that involve local election for "Town Mayor" - while the business of managing politics at the National level are best left to politicians.
What are these National Level Politics that LKY believe - as was advocated by GCT - that politics should be left to politicians, and not Singaporeans ?
It seems that policies related to Finance, Education, Defense, Security, and Labor are not the business of Singaporeans.
Can this be true ?
With a better educated population in this 21st Century, can the status quo be allowed to continue - when this political environment was created by LKY in the 1950s and enforced till 1990, with GCT tweaking it till 2004 when he passed the seat to LHL ?
Can a better educated Singapore population not learn to take control of its own political future that will surely affect its economic prosperity - as seen in Hong Kong, South Korea and Taiwan ?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Your view is correct and is due to 52 years of LKY's "doctrine" being applied - 'in filling the stomach, to dull the mind' - as he fear a politically concious population, which explains for his reluctance to have a highly educated population during the 1960s through the 1970s as seen with the closure of Nayang University.In the 1970s, applicants for a place in NUS must first obtain a 'Suitability Certificate' from the Home Ministry before the application is accepted and approved.
It was not until the late 1980s and 1990s that it was realised that more university graduates are needed for a high-tech value added economy - which explains for a frenzy of new universities being allowed to exist, with the re-opening of Nanyang University as NTU.
Still, LKY continue to fear a political concious population, and continue to push for politics to be conducted at two levels - local and national.
According to his simplistic view, he felt that Singaporeans clamour for political space can be appeased by allowing Singaporeans to participate in 'mini-referendums' to the Neighborhood Upgrading Plans, local council management that involve local election for "Town Mayor" - while the business of managing politics at the National level are best left to politicians.
What are these National Level Politics that LKY believe - as was advocated by GCT - that politics should be left to politicians, and not Singaporeans ?
It seems that policies related to Finance, Education, Defense, Security, and Labor are not the business of Singaporeans.
Can this be true ?
With a better educated population in this 21st Century, can the status quo be allowed to continue - when this political environment was created by LKY in the 1950s and enforced till 1990, with GCT tweaking it till 2004 when he passed the seat to LHL ?
Can a better educated Singapore population not learn to take control of its own political future that will surely affect its economic prosperity - as seen in Hong Kong, South Korea and Taiwan ?
They have done very well in "taming" the Singaporeans, so much so that I heard my relative and some others voicing out their concern about what will happen if opposition takes over and that they will no longer have good life in Sg. These people simply enjoy living within the fence set by lky, they are really pathetic.Anything that concerns Singaporeans should be taken seriously and not ignore it. If we want a better life in Singapore, people should be united to vote the despots out.
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Originally posted by the Bear:
actually, open your eyes..
the MIW are a bunch of money-grubbing mercenaries.. voting them out would be great.. fuck! i'm just grinning myself silly thinking about the bunch of assholes bring thrown out!
however, we have to look at the alternatives..
if you throw some idiots like that Lead Shaker guy or CSJ into power, i'm betting Singapore will be in ruins pretty quickly...
the hope for Singapore is that the opposition gets their acts together.. and stop with the petty bickering which blighted the hell out of so many elections in the past..
also, they have to figure out who within their ranks are damaging them..
already WP has done its work kicking out Gomez..
mostly, it's a terrible thing to say but i'm still hoping the old bleached zombie of Ah Meng, Lau Lee kicks the bucket before the elections.. it'll then be fricken interesting times for our country
Can we believe your statement - "actually, open your eyes" ?With your myopic vision that is focused only on CSJ - and all Alternative Politicians are painted with the same brush that has CSJ constantly in your mind - can there be any future for Singapore with electorates like you around ?
Singapore is bigger then LKY or CSJ, in time both will pass on as did Devan Nair, Lee Siew Choh, JBJ, Ong Teng Cheong - and ourselves too.
What we can do today, should be done today, so as to allow our immediate next generation a healthier environment to grow and be nurtured.
Why allow your narrow fears to obstruct the potential good that a broader vista of alternative political personalities can bring ?
We will never know what those potential good can be, unless we take the first step.
LKY had screwed big time on several issues that he insisted, we survived it - and after 52 years he did apologised and admitted to some of his past mistakes.
We survived it.
Singapore will survive CSJ for all the negative propaganda created by the PAP that colored your vision.
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Right now, as you see around you, in mrt, in wet market, in coffee shops, pple are doing their own businesses. In office, factory, etc...life still goes on and on...
We have yet to see pple here and there voicing disapproval or voicing unhappiness everywhere except at speakers corners or some web site.
If there is, then it might be possible that PAP will be in deep danger with the pple.
Right now, life still goes on as usual. Take a ride during peak hour or after office hour or at the shopping center, pple are happily doing their own things.
So take 1 step at a time. Hope opp can win 1 grc seat and built from there upwards.
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Let PAP stay, but only as Minority govt and no more than that.
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Originally posted by likeyou:
Right now, as you see around you, in mrt, in wet market, in coffee shops, pple are doing their own businesses. In office, factory, etc...life still goes on and on...
We have yet to see pple here and there voicing disapproval or voicing unhappiness everywhere except at speakers corners or some web site.
If there is, then it might be possible that PAP will be in deep danger with the pple.
Right now, life still goes on as usual. Take a ride during peak hour or after office hour or at the shopping center, pple are happily doing their own things.
So take 1 step at a time. Hope opp can win 1 grc seat and built from there upwards.
When a person work, the mind is on the job - do you think politics when you work ?
When you are watching the movie "14 blades" - is your mind thinking about PAP ?
Be realistic, when you are at a coffee shop in the evening, and some new government policies are published in the evening Chinese newspapers - you will surely hear the emotional discussions about politics.
Base on your approach of 1 GRC seat per election - with an election conducted every 5 years - can Singapore afford to wait 215 years to have an Alternative Political Party to win a slim majority of 43 out of 84 parliamentary seats to form a new Government ?
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Originally posted by the Bear:
actually, open your eyes..
the MIW are a bunch of money-grubbing mercenaries.. voting them out would be great.. fuck! i'm just grinning myself silly thinking about the bunch of assholes bring thrown out!
however, we have to look at the alternatives..
if you throw some idiots like that Lead Shaker guy or CSJ into power, i'm betting Singapore will be in ruins pretty quickly...
the hope for Singapore is that the opposition gets their acts together.. and stop with the petty bickering which blighted the hell out of so many elections in the past..
also, they have to figure out who within their ranks are damaging them..
already WP has done its work kicking out Gomez..
mostly, it's a terrible thing to say but i'm still hoping the old bleached zombie of Ah Meng, Lau Lee kicks the bucket before the elections.. it'll then be fricken interesting times for our country
I believe your view has been carried out over the last 20 years the least. The biggerest mistake for singapore citizen is to allow one party to dominate for more than 40 yrs.......it is not so much of what opposition party can do....it become a heavier burden for Singaporean to comprehend when it comes to issue that matters there are no Voice to be heard.
A socialogy once made an observation about politicians who suffered together with its people tend to made better decision than those deteched from the population. what is best for politician is also best for its people. Its a matter of the heart nearest to the people.
Do you think a million dollar ministers understand that?
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The first step to the solution of our problems is to get rid of the political dinosaurs.