Wrong to accuse them of driving up costs: Shanmugam
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Wrong to accuse them of driving up costs: Shanmugam
January 18, 2010
By Jeremy Au Yong from Straits Times
MIDWAY through a 11/2-hour dialogue with Law Minister K. Shanmugam yesterday, 58-year-old Wee Kai Fatt stood up and gave voice to the claims of many coffee shop pundits here.
The senior engineer complained about the foreigner-fuelled population boom, saying he was shocked when he heard there were five million people living in Singapore.
This influx of foreigners, he added, had caused HDB home prices to rocket.
Taking it all in, Mr Shanmugam took pains to clarify what he said were several misconceptions in Mr Wee’s statement.
The Law Minister’s key message: Do not cast foreigners as the villains driving up the prices of HDB flats.
Speaking at the end of his three-hour visit to Yew Tee constituency in Hong Kah GRC, he said: ‘The first misconception is that somehow there are five million people and that is putting pressure on all of us. It doesn’t.’
Of the five million, 3.2million are citizens, and roughly 500,000 are permanent residents (PRs).
The remaining 1.3million are here on temporary work permits, and they ‘impose no burden’ on the public housing system, said Mr Shanmugam, who is also the Second Home Affairs Minister.
The reason: These foreigners are not allowed to buy any public housing flats, whether directly from the HDB or in the resale market.
As for the PRs, who can buy resale flats, he said they form too small a number at the moment to have any significant impact on prices.
So, who is supporting the high HDB prices?
Just last week, there were media reports of a two-room HDB flat in Chinatown selling for $245,000, or $45,000 more than the flat’s valuation.
Mr Shanmugam’s hunch is that Singaporeans are the likely culprits.
Asked by another Yew Tee resident about the high prices, he responded: ‘You say maybe foreigners are paying these high valuations. I think if you check, you’ll find that the majority are Singaporeans. The foreigners who come here and look at HDB flats generally buy the lower value flats.
‘You’ll see that they are spread out in the suburban areas, and their salaries tend not to be that high. They don’t get the kind of grants we give Singaporeans. And it’s not so easy for them. I haven’t done an analysis of the statistics, but I’d be prepared to say that it is primarily Singaporeans who are paying these prices.’
He added that it would be difficult for the Government to step in and impose some sort of limit on resale flat prices.
‘It requires the Government to intervene and for every one person you want to make happy, you will make another person unhappy,’ he said.
The Government’s approach instead was to give Singaporeans a leg up with concessionary loans and housing grants which can amount to as much as $40,000 just for young couples seeking to live near their parents.
Mr Shanmugam also noted that eight in 10 Singaporeans pay their HDB monthly mortgages completely with funds from their CPF savings and do not cough up any additional cash. All in, he said, flats remain affordable.
This year, the Government is ready to launch up to 12,000 build-to-order units to keep up with demand. In fact, HDB launched a new project in Yew Tee two weeks ago.
Yesterday’s dialogue highlighted again the simmering tension between foreigners and locals here, as the issue dominated the meeting with around 150 residents.
In the past year, the surge in foreigners has been blamed for various ills – from the rise in home prices to a lack of jobs for Singaporeans.
Mr Shanmugam’s remarks mark the latest attempt by a political leader to clarify the issue. He noted the Government need to work harder on getting across the message on the role of foreigners.
He said: ‘Politics is, in fact, the art of communication, and this question shows how much misconception there is on the ground, and that is one of the problems a Government has and must overcome.’ – Straits Times
http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/01/18/wrong-to-accuse-them-of-driving-up-costs-shanmugam/
Shanmugam: Singaporeans likely “culprits” for driving up HDB flat prices
January 18, 2010
Singaporeans are again blamed for the misguided policies of the ruling party which continues to turn a blind eye towards the problems it has created.
Despite the obvious fact that the relentless influx of foreigners over the years has led to a sky-rocketing of HDB flat prices, PAP leaders are adamant that foreigners are not to be blamed.
So who is responsible for supporting the HDB flat prices even in the midst of a recession? As expected, the fault lies with Singaporeans.
According to Law Minister Mr Shanmugam’s “hunch”, Singaporeans are the likely culprits. He did not provide any evidence to substantiate his allegations.
(and we are paying him SGD$2 million dollars a year for his “hunches”, not much better than his mentor – the “forecaster extraordinarie”)
“The first misconception is that somehow there are five million people and that is putting pressure on all of us. It doesn’t. Of the five million, 3.2million are citizens, and roughly 500,000 are permanent residents (PRs). The remaining 1.3million are here on temporary work permits, and they ‘impose no burden’ on the public housing system,” said Mr Shanmugam.
He was speaking during a dialogue session with Yew Tee residents in Hong Kah GRC.
Asked by another Yew Tee resident about the high prices, he shot back:
“‘You say maybe foreigners are paying these high valuations. I think if you check, you’ll find that the majority are Singaporeans. The foreigners who come here and look at HDB flats generally buy the lower value flats.”
Mr Shanmugam’s stance on the matter is similar to his colleague National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan who told parliament lately that “PR households owning HDB flats is a small proportion of all HDB households”.
However, Mr Mohamad Ismail, the CEO of Propnex quoted a figure of 20 per cent when asked by The Straits Times a few weeks ago.
Another real estate agency ERA claimed in a report in July last year that 40 per cent of the buyers of resale flats are PRs while C&H put the figure at 50 per cent.
Below is a graph illustrating how the rise in the prices of resale flats coincides with the rise in the number of foreigners in Singapore between the years 2000 and 2008, courtesy of Kojakbt, the moderator of 3in1kopitiam:
Due to the ruling party’s liberal immigration policy, foreigners now made up 36 per cent of Singapore’s population, up from 14 per cent in 1990. According to Home Affairs Minister Wong Kan Seng, there are over 20,000 new citizens and 90,000 PRs last year.
Besides competing with Singaporeans for HDB flats, PRs sometimes also “spoil” the market by over-paying for them.
An Indonesian PR forked out $653,000 for a four room resale flat in Queenstown in October 2009 when he could well afford a private condominium.
As the prices of new BTO flats are pegged to that of resale flats in the vicinity, this may contribute indirectly to the astronomical prices of the Dawson project launched a few months later where 5-room flats fetches as high as $660,000.
A Financial Consultant interviewed by Lianhe Wanbao advised Singaporeans not to buy these flats unless they earn more than $7,500 monthly.
Mr Shanmugam also repeated Mr Mah’s earlier assertion that HDB flats remain “affordable” to Singaporeans as “eight in 10 Singaporeans pay their HDB monthly mortgages completely with funds from their CPF savings and do not cough up any additional cash.”
Quoting the affordability benchmark of 30 per cent used frequently by HDB to show that HDB flats remain affordable to ordinary Singaporeans, Mr Mah said recently that a family with a monthly income of $3,000 can buy a flat worth up to $250,000 and spend only 30 per cent of their income every month on the mortgage.
“Similarly, a family with a monthly income of $4,000 can afford to buy a new flat worth up to $333,000 without spending more than 30 per cent a month on the mortgage. This means they can comfortably buy any of the flats offered in the latest BTO projects this month,” he added.
Both Mr Shanmugam and Mr Mah’s public statements are quite “divorced of reality”.
Instead of acknowledging the problem and tackling it, they chose to blame Singaporeans for their mistakes in order to defend the foreigners whom they are so infatuated with.
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Originally posted by Johnreturn35:
MIDWAY through a 11/2-hour dialogue with Law Minister K. Shanmugam yesterday, 58-year-old Wee Kai Fatt stood up and gave voice to the claims of many coffee shop pundits here.
That is very elitist.
Why look down on coffee shop pundits? PAP top analysts then Singaporeans locals coffee shop pundits?
They eat and drink in coffee shop but they are not idiots wah. Why you talk like that?
Everytime people criticise, they must be "coffeeshop" people, "coffee shop" pundits?
Try a different propaganda next time, I see same shit very sian PAP.
Okay I think PAP minister pay should increase so I coffee shop pundit or not?
PAP is very good, I coffeeshop pundit?
lky is so wise says the coffeeshop pundit.
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Aiya, talk so much for what, in the end also blame Singaporeans, that is why, i said, Singaporeans are stupid, damn stupid. Hey! this is your country ok, so Right or Wrong, up or down, in or out must be your problem, if not whose problem...the govt??? but you voted the govt mah, so who problem now, the foreigners??? but this is your country leh, how can you blame the foreigners??? the world will be laughing.
Tell me, how can Kings and Princes understand the ground problems??? Unlike us, They dun mingle with foreigners ya. Get some foreigners into our parliament, be our MPs and govt at low paid and give them HDB flat to live...then we can equal footing to table this issue, otherwise, how can heaven knows what the hell is going on ya.
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Originally posted by ztreyier:
That is very elitist.
Why look down on coffee shop pundits? PAP top analysts then Singaporeans locals coffee shop pundits?
They eat and drink in coffee shop but they are not idiots wah. Why you talk like that?
Everytime people criticise, they must be "coffeeshop" people, "coffee shop" pundits?
Try a different propaganda next time, I see same shit very sian PAP.
Okay I think PAP minister pay should increase so I coffee shop pundit or not?
PAP is very good, I coffeeshop pundit?
lky is so wise says the coffeeshop pundit.
ya mah, coffee shop drink few bottle of Tiger, then go inside, more brave to debate with Minister mah....if not, keep thinking 3 am ISD knocking the door, who dare to talk without a few drink first...me go be Heinken gal better.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Aiya, talk so much for what, in the end also blame Singaporeans, that is why, i said, Singaporeans are stupid, damn stupid. Hey! this is your country ok, so Right or Wrong, up or down, in or out must be your problem, if not whose problem...the govt??? but you voted the govt mah, so who problem now, the foreigners??? but this is your country leh, how can you blame the foreigners??? the world will be laughing.
Tell me, how can Kings and Princes understand the ground problems??? Unlike us, They dun mingle with foreigners ya. Get some foreigners into our parliament, be our MPs and govt at low paid and give them HDB flat to live...then we can equal footing to table this issue, otherwise, how can heaven knows what the hell is going on ya.
You praise and defend PAP, you are professional executive.
I criticise PAP, I am coffeeshop pundit.
No choice must follow PAP's propaganda.
All those here, praise PAP, pro-PAP you are professional people.
All those who criticise PAP, attack PAP, all of you are coffeeshop pundits.
I very guai, all follow PAP propaganda standard one.
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Foreigners contribute to rental income and surely that has a part to play in the increase in property prices, albeit that increases the owner's income as well.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Aiya, talk so much for what, in the end also blame Singaporeans, that is why, i said, Singaporeans are stupid, damn stupid. Hey! this is your country ok, so Right or Wrong, up or down, in or out must be your problem, if not whose problem...the govt??? but you voted the govt mah, so who problem now, the foreigners??? but this is your country leh, how can you blame the foreigners??? the world will be laughing.
Tell me, how can Kings and Princes understand the ground problems??? Unlike us, They dun mingle with foreigners ya. Get some foreigners into our parliament, be our MPs and govt at low paid and give them HDB flat to live...then we can equal footing to table this issue, otherwise, how can heaven knows what the hell is going on ya.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
HOR - WAKE UP YOUR IDEA
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Originally posted by ztreyier:
You praise and defend PAP, you are professional executive.
I criticise PAP, I am coffeeshop pundit.
No choice must follow PAP's propaganda.
All those here, praise PAP, pro-PAP you are professional people.
All those who criticise PAP, attack PAP, all of you are coffeeshop pundits.
I very guai, all follow PAP propaganda standard one.
what is professional??struggling one whole month earning merely 2k also professional ar??? all these bogus title are just to motivate people and make use of them, but look at those pathetic pay.
I am telling the truth, nothing but the truth.
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Firstly, you people give the mandate to the ruling party to allow the foreigners to come in, and now you making noises??? Learn to be like we taiwanese or Japanese lah, die die also dun allow foreigners in, even until the country is full of old people also cannot come in, and whoever govt allow that to happen, the parliament will become a boxing arena. But Singaporeans are trained to obey mah, and govt alway takes silent as approval ya. Hari Raya, chinese new year, deepavali, christmas, or thaipusum, 7th mth ghost celebration or funneral can make hell lots of noises, but when come to govt, all diam diam, who to blame??? you or govt??
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i think he is saying that singaporeans see buyers are "FT" so they drive up the selling prices to carrot them. FT so stupid
not singaporeans stupid -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Firstly, you people give the mandate to the ruling party to allow the foreigners to come in, and now you making noises??? Learn to be like we taiwanese or Japanese lah, die die also dun allow foreigners in, even until the country is full of old people also cannot come in, and whoever govt allow that to happen, the parliament will become a boxing arena. But Singaporeans are trained to obey mah, and govt alway takes silent as approval ya. Hari Raya, chinese new year, deepavali, christmas, or thaipusum, 7th mth ghost celebration or funneral can make hell lots of noises, but when come to govt, all diam diam, who to blame??? you or govt??
I am just a coffeeshop pundit. What do I know?
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Originally posted by ztreyier:
I am just a coffeeshop pundit. What do I know?
You know that Sexy tigerbeer aunty or not?? -
Property prices in Singapore set to rise thanks to more foreigners
January 15, 2010
According to a report in Channel News Asia, prices of private properties in Singapore from the luxury housing sector to the mass market are likely to go up in the year 2010 due to more foreigners coming to Singapore.
Real Estate agency Savills is forecasting that prices in the luxury segment will rise 15 per cent in the year ahead and prices in the mass market and mid-end properties could see values move up by about five per cent.
The completion of the two integrated resorts is likely to spur demands together with more foreigners flocking to find work in Singapore.
“We do see strong demand because of the population growth. Again a lot more foreign workers are expected to come in over the next 12 months, so I don’t think there will be a correction downwards in that sense. But certainly not the same kind of growth as seen last year, more moderated, but healthier,” CNA quoted Michael Ng, managing director, Savills Singapore as saying.
The relentless influx of foreigners into Singapore is a key reason why property prices in both the private and public sector have stay up despite of the recession last year.
Due to the ruling party’s liberal immigration policy, foreigners now make up 36 per cent of the population compared to 14 per cent in 1990.
In the face of a limited supply of housing, prices are expected to sky-rocket with that of HDB resale flats hitting a record high in June last year.
Even National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan admitted that he was “caught off guard” by the high prices.
Despite evidence showing otherwise, Mr Mah continues to insist that HDB flats remain “affordable” in Singapore and blames Singaporeans for being too “choosy” in getting a home of their choice.
In a recent speech in parliament, he said “the onus is on Singaporeans to play their part by buying a home within their means.”
Quoting the affordability benchmark of 30 per cent used frequently by HDB to show that HDB flats remain affordable to ordinary Singaporeans, Mr Mah said a family with a monthly income of $3,000 can buy a flat worth up to $250,000 and spend only 30 per cent of their income every month on the mortgage.
“Similarly, a family with a monthly income of $4,000 can afford to buy a new flat worth up to $333,000 without spending more than 30 per cent a month on the mortgage. This means they can comfortably buy any of the flats offered in the latest BTO projects this month,” he added.
However, Mr Mah fails to take into account the bank interest rates and inflation over the years which will lead eventually to the family spending more than 30 per cent of their monthly income on the mortgage.
Rich foreigners who accounts to about 70 per cent of the buyers in the private property market are responsible for the rising prices which have priced locals desiring to upgrade to a private property out of the market altogether.
Middle class PRs are snapping up resale HDB flats sometimes by paying astronomical prices for them.
An Indonesian PR paid a record high $653,000 for a resale HDB flat in Queenstown when he could well afford a private condominium.
Mr Mohamad Ismail, the CEO of Propnex estimated that 20 per cent of the buyers in the resale market are PRs while ERA and C&H real estate agencies quoted figures of 40 and 50 per cent respectively.
Despite rising resentment and anger on the ground at the ruling party’s pro-foreigner policy, its leaders continue to insist that Singapore requires foreigners in order to grow its economy which has become unproductive due to over-reliance on cheap foreign labor.
Minister of Community Development, Youth and Sports Dr Vivian Balakrishnan said in a recent speech that the government “cannot shield Singaporeans from competition” though it will try to allow Singapore children a “head start”.
There is no opposition in parliament to check on the ruling party which has been governing Singapore for the last 50 years with a “blank cheque” often so with little or no consultation with the people.
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actually true also
overseas buyers buy without even visiting
the showflat at all
Sg buyers , some see many times also dun buy at all
Wow so exp har , hdb cheaper
Wow so small har , how to stay
Wow how come never face sea etc
wow so low floor , where got view
Some can even see for years also never buy
Sorry hor
This is the truth
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As far as i am concern,
Everything will rise eventually, the next decade will be a golden age for Singapore if one can adapt, innovate and think wisely, one can make rich and prosperous, the rise of emerging markets is not a new trend but over the next decade we are going to hit a tipping point where the influence of emerging markets in economic, financial and properties, and all these will churn other sectors to move along. We need to seize up this opportunity for growth when the west are in their worst ever recession, it is indeed an opportunity for us before the west rise again.
Therefore, no matter what is the arguement, the rise of cost is inevitable, Singpore will benefit from an expected pick-up in global trade and manufacturing; additionally, strong balance sheet fundamentals remain supportive of domestic demand. Economies at the centre of this crisis.
So, dear Citizens, be prepare or be gone.
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2-room flat for $245,000
January 14, 2010
Straits Times, 13 January 2010
A TWO-ROOM Housing Board flat at Jalan Kukoh, off Chin Swee Road, was sold for $245,000 two months ago.
This earned its sellers, a couple in their 40s, a cool $100,000 profit after living there for just two years, reported The New Paper and Shin Min Daily News.
TNP said for that price, one could easily buy a bigger three-room HDB flat in outlying estates such as Choa Chu Kang, Jurong West or Woodlands.
The 570 sq ft flat is on a higher floor of Block 10, and is about 40 years old. The buyers, a couple in their late 30s, paid a hefty $45,000 in cash-over-valuation (COV) for this unit.
The seller, Mr John Tan, said he and his wife bought the flat for $145,000 two years ago. – Straits Times
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Originally posted by Johnreturn35:
2-room flat for $245,000
January 14, 2010
Straits Times, 13 January 2010
A TWO-ROOM Housing Board flat at Jalan Kukoh, off Chin Swee Road, was sold for $245,000 two months ago.
This earned its sellers, a couple in their 40s, a cool $100,000 profit after living there for just two years, reported The New Paper and Shin Min Daily News.
TNP said for that price, one could easily buy a bigger three-room HDB flat in outlying estates such as Choa Chu Kang, Jurong West or Woodlands.
The 570 sq ft flat is on a higher floor of Block 10, and is about 40 years old. The buyers, a couple in their late 30s, paid a hefty $45,000 in cash-over-valuation (COV) for this unit.
The seller, Mr John Tan, said he and his wife bought the flat for $145,000 two years ago. – Straits Times
100,000 profit is nothing lar
U got go read on The sail transaction a not
One million profit then is the talk of the town lar
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Originally posted by noahnoah:
100,000 profit is nothing lar
U got go read on The sail transaction a not
One million profit then is the talk of the town lar
the hdb flat price and the profit being made -
I hv few neighbours that are foreigners. They are not suppose to buy 5 rooms instead only 4 rooms and they dont have priviledges compare to sporean.
I also hv friends who both are PR, but then unable to buy new flats. Provided they buy condo or bangolow.
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unless you downgrade, if not you sell house, you still have to buy another house to live mah...so you sell, you thot you earn, then you buy again, who earn...in the end, also govt and agents earn mah....that is why i said, Singaporeans seibei gong gong one.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
unless you downgrade, if not you sell house, you still have to buy another house to live mah...so you sell, you thot you earn, then you buy again, who earn...in the end, also govt and agents earn mah....that is why i said, Singaporeans seibei gong gong one.
Not gong gong, nowhere to move liao. Only 1 door left. -
we coffeeshop pundits see it as
Govt policy of flooding Prs, new citizenship and employment pass with undersupply of flats
==> Higher rentals and demand by New PR and citizens which pushes up HDB valuation
http://www.filmo.com/sg_pr.htm
Citizenships & SPRs Granted to foreigners by ICA (source: ST )
Year Citizenships SPRs
2002 7,600 39,500
2003 6,800 32,000
2004 7,600 36,900
2005 12,900 52,300
2006 13,200 57,300
2007 17,334 63,627
2008 20,513 79,167=> spike in Property Prices.
According to superior PAP logic
1. Flood of foreigners cannot push up rentals and cannot push up valuation of HDB Flats
2.According to superior PAP logic, since the percentage of resale transactions by Singaporeans is 70-80%, the spike in PRs and new citizens and undersupply of HDB flats cannot cause HDB property prices to go up
I am sure many voters agree with the superior PAP logic and will vote for them in the coming elections.
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"I haven’t done an analysis of the statistics, but I’d be prepared to say that it is primarily Singaporeans who are paying these prices."
How much is he paid?
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Before the 1997 handover of Hong Kong back to China, the Singapore gahment liberally issued PR status to more than 100,000 Hong Kong families hoping to grab "Talent". These people lap up the opportunty to standby a backdoor escape route in case Communist China take radical measures to clamp down on Hong Kong liberal ways. The Gahment even employed famous Hong Kong actors and even a Miss Hong Kong to sing propaganda praises of how wonderful Singapore is, how easy National Service being only 2 years blah blah blah.
They came & they bought so many HDB flats that the property prices ballooned. But 1997 came & went & nothing happened in Hong Kong. So all these "Talents" sold their properties in Singapore and balek kampung. They made a tidy profit at the expense of Singaporeans but never stayed a decent period or take up Citizenship our silly Gahment had hoped. Property prices collapsed soon afterwards & of course our Gahment feeling stupid suddenly become quiet and dumb because the "Talent" is smarter than our smart alec Gahment.
This is one reason I will never never ever vote PAP.
I see history repeating itself again.
Remember that cartoon political promise :-
"SWISS STANDARD OF LIVING?"
ffff..Puih !!!
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Everything is the fault of Singaporeans and not the government. YEs, we have the ruling party who is the only political party in the whole world who are without stain, they are perfect, more perfect than God. F it mann!