Ruling Party OR Opposition ?
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Originally posted by parn:
Do you really not know the answer to your own question?
With the rising of many so-called educated Singaporeans who felt that they have became wiser because of their education, but are somehow dissatisfied with Singapore in many ways, can you tell me how many Singaporeans that you know, are actually proud to be a Singaporean and love to be in Singapore?
Do you not feel the anti-Singapore sentiments that has been floating around within the minds of many Singaporeans in here and in your real-life?
Take a look at the support these people has for CSJ when he tried to seek help from a foreign President like Obama. How bad is the situation in Singapore right now until we need intervention from a foreign country? I would suggest CSJ to seek help from Malaysia instead and maybe that will truly give Malaysia an excuse to go to war with Singapore, to liberate us.
I can ask you, would you seek the help of your neighbour or someone living far away from you if you have somehow suffered pain from members of your family? The answer is, you won't seek help from anyone to solve your own domestic problems because it is DISGRACEFUL towards your own family. Unless you are not a family-loving person, then there is no point explaining all these to you. In fact, maybe you cannot think very well for yourself and really needed my advice?
Regardless of the job title(politician or not) of the citizen of the country, any citizens who does not recognise the importance and the need of upholding and protection of the honor of their own country, certainly do not deserved to be protected and granted shelter in their own country. Such self-centred citizens are usually likely to betray their country for their own personal gain and benefits, and would not hestitate to behave drastically to throw their country into eternal turmoil without any deep consideration and regards for the consequences which their behaviour might brought upon the other fellow citizens.
Betrayal is the word that I would use for those rebels who has anti-sentiments towards Singapore and I do not wish to see my country thrown into political uncertaincy with the change of government and I certainly DO NOT NEED to take a risk to believe and follow the retarded revolutionary ideals of many WRONG rebels who do not know how to truly appreciate, love, and contented with their own motherland when their own motherland offers them shelter, education, financial stability, so that they were able to grow up strong and fully.
Maybe you have been asking questions to kindergarten children? People who are smart would choose to support the better side for the sake of their future and the future of their children. Only fools would risk their future and the future of their children for the sake of justice and righteousness.
I can help you to answer your questions even though I'm no Pro-PAP cheerleader.
- What is the justification of paying our leaders 4-5x higher than the market rate, when the rest of the population in Singapore (1) must comply with market rates and (2) lives on deeply disproportionate salaries relative to our leaders?
Shoudn't you be asking the person who decide to give our leaders such a huge payout? If you were in position to question all that, you would've done it so yourself. Since you understand that you were in no position to question them, why do you seek to demand an explaination? Do you imagined yourself higher than the person or the leaders? How would you feel if some act-smart kids come and confront your father and demanded him to explain why he is getting more money than their fathers? Did I managed to paint the scenario is a better for your understanding?
If you do and truly desire to seek out the answer, then by all means PLEASE RISE UP AND BECOME SOMEONE BETTER THAN ALL OF THEM, then you can start asking all sort of questions you want. But tell me if UFO truly exists ok? Cos I want to know too.
- What is the justification of opening our doors so fully to foreign labour (I do not use the word foreign talent), so much so that jobs are being competed at ALL levels in the market? In other countries I have seen, jobs for foreigners are mostly either at the bottom (when no locals want to do it), or at the top (foreign talent). Middle level jobs are mostly left for the locals.
I do not speak on behalf of anyone, but this are my own opinions. As you are probably aware since you were young, Singapore do not have any natural resources and we are actually not self-substainable as a country of our own when compared with other countries around the world. Talent is one of the resources which the government has decided to work towards for the future of Singapore. Attracting investors has always been the driving force behind many government policies if you have not noticed.
Maybe it is inapprioriate for the ruling party or government to tell you this, but I can tell you the truth. There isn't enough talents among Singaporeans in Singapore. And this following one is free of charge from my own opinion, there are too many insensible Singaporeans in Singapore. Educated yes, Knowledgable yes, Capable yes, Sensible NO, Mature NO, Worldly NO.
Why do I say that? Because when you have problems in your own career, do you go and consult the PM or any politicians for help? How can you blame the country for not giving you a good career by making you the CEO of CEOs? How is the country responsible for fulfilling your ambitions for you?
When the government has decided that attracting foreign investors to come and invest and help develop Singapore for us free-of-charge, it is inevitable that Singaporeans are born to compete with foreigners. I don't understand why Singaporeans are so afraid and threatened with competition from foreigners? Perhaps Singaporeans realised that they weren't really as good and capable enough as what they have perceived of themselves on the world market? The truth hurts but it doesn't means it will become a barrier that Singaporeans cannot overcome but have to crying to their PM and politicians for some comforting help.
There are many Singaporeans at the top level of many companies, just because you are not one of them, doesn't makes it right for you to complain about your own inability and waste my time to answer questions which you already know the answers.
- What is the justification of continuous increase of cost of living? An example I always will remember, is when I question why an upgraded hawker centre must double its rental, the only justification for that is Market rate?
OMG, just because some retarded idiots doesn't want to tell you the truth and admit that they are greedy for your money, it becomes my problem to provide some form of justification to comfort you?
I hope you have been living among Singaporeans long enough to know how many really good Singaporeans exists out there. It's like you can have many Singaporean friends, but how many of them actually make it to your best friend's list?
Okie, it's not just Singaporeans who are greedy for your money. The entire world of human race are greedy for each other money, if not why we have reserve banks and where do you think these countries borrowed their money from? Please don't think they really borrowed from each other and GOD paid them interests in their saving accounts. How do you think banks generate their money from? It's from debts of course. But this is entirely another topic and you go and find it out for yourself, I'm lazy to explain everything to you just because you asked.
When everyone in the world is greedy for more money and they comes up with some ploy at some point in their running their businesses and they know someone else in other countries are also doing the same trick to leech more money from the communities, it becomes a standard lie known as "Market Rate". So if Mr. Ah Kow knows that Mr. Ah Mao is overcharging his customers for his hawker service, Mr. Ah Kow assumed he can also safely overcharge his own customers at the comparable ratio rate of Mr. Ah Mao. When people like you ask Mr. Ah Kow, he will tell you "Oh, it's the Market Rate. Don't you know?". Then people like you will come and ask me questions like these and demanded that I provide some form of justification to comfort you like some China prostitutes.
- What is the justification of telling people age 40 and over that they are now more stupid, and hence must accept lower-level jobs, and lesser pay, when in effect, the govt is not able to attract jobs that are at a level these people with such immense experience can excel in?
It really depends on which 40 years old people you are talking about. If you go to your friendly 40 years old hawker uncle and tell him he's more stupid now and he must charge you lesser for his food, chances are he might splash your face with his pot of hot soup.
If you go and tell your friendly 40 years old hairdresser that she's old and stupid and must therefore charge you lesser for her services, you might end up permanently bald and maybe can start training to walk on thin rope between buildings in the next NKF show.
I have no idea which jobs in particular you are talking about the government not providing or attracting jobs for these people to excel in with their immense experience. Taxi-drivers, Hairdressers, Chefs, Hawkers, Teachers, Policemen, Singers, Dancers, President, PM, CEO of the CEOs, Photographers, Whores and Pimps, ..... not enough? Try not to take things overly subjectively ok?
"My concern is of the future, not the past. I am concerned with the sufferings of the local individual, where being a citizen in Singapore has not much benefits, and is of no difference to an alien in another country, and where we are in danger of losing our national identity due to the massive influx of foreigners."
As long as the current ruling party and government of Singapore is still made up of capable people and they are still doing their job for the benefit of the country, the people and their own money, I don't really mind if these people have the better future, cos I know that average Singaporeans won't be too far away from them because they still need Singaporeans to take over them when they retired.
If Singaporeans really feel that they don't have a future in Singapore, do you think they will have the time and luxury to come to SgForums?
From your answers above, I can already see one fatal flaw in your argument.The leaders serve the nation, not the nation serves the leaders
In short, your argument that our leaders are our fathers, is foundationally already incorrect. The taxpayers for these leaders is each and every citizen in this country. Therefore, by no means are they our fathers. By using this example, you are already going down the wrong path.
In the corporate world, WE are the shareholders. We pay the CEOs and directors their salary, therefore they are answerable to us. In a corporation, the shareholders can VOTE to agree or disagree with a salary increase. For you, by starting with the wrong analogy above, your arguments are all flawed.
With the above incorrect assumption, your other arguments ("being ungrateful to parents, etc) are already incorrect. Therefore there is no need to debate this part any further.
back to your argument that you dont see why Singaporeans should be afraid of foreigners. I see you aren't following up with all the debate on foreigners. Unlike other countries, where they hire foreigners at low-cost to provide for the lowest class, and at high-cost to provide for the lack of talent in the top positions, we are now in a situation where we are providing foreigners at low cost to compete with the middle class, therefore causing pain to the common citizens.
I can see some elitist attitude in your discussion already, given you assume I am some low-ranking individual complaining about our policies, just because I make my questions known. Therefore, any individual questioning the govt's policies is a low-ranking individual, in your limited scope of thought.
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Originally posted by parn:
Do you not feel the anti-Singapore sentiments that has been floating around within the minds of many Singaporeans in here and in your real-life?Betrayal is the word that I would use for those rebels who has anti-sentiments towards Singapore and I do not wish to see my country thrown into political uncertaincy with the change of government and I certainly DO NOT NEED to take a risk to believe and follow the retarded revolutionary ideals of many WRONG rebels who do not know how to truly appreciate, love, and contented with their own motherland when their own motherland offers them shelter, education, financial stability, so that they were able to grow up strong and fully.
If Singaporeans really feel that they don't have a future in Singapore, do you think they will have the time and luxury to come to SgForums?
So you sum up anyone who has anti-PAP sentiments as anti-singapore sentiments?Do you know the difference between a political party, a govt, and a nation?
Are you even able to discern between right and wrong, when you say "many WRONG rebels"?
Have you read carefully what CSJ was suggesting, instead of choosing to believe in what the media reported?
I don't know, but you give me the impression you are very judgemental, together with an elitist attitude.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
From your answers above, I can already see one fatal flaw in your argument.The leaders serve the nation, not the nation serves the leaders
In short, your argument that our leaders are our fathers, is foundationally already incorrect. The taxpayers for these leaders is each and every citizen in this country. Therefore, by no means are they our fathers. By using this example, you are already going down the wrong path.
In the corporate world, WE are the shareholders. We pay the CEOs and directors their salary, therefore they are answerable to us. In a corporation, the shareholders can VOTE to agree or disagree with a salary increase. For you, by starting with the wrong analogy above, your arguments are all flawed.
With the above incorrect assumption, your other arguments ("being ungrateful to parents, etc) are already incorrect. Therefore there is no need to debate this part any further.
back to your argument that you dont see why Singaporeans should be afraid of foreigners. I see you aren't following up with all the debate on foreigners. Unlike other countries, where they hire foreigners at low-cost to provide for the lowest class, and at high-cost to provide for the lack of talent in the top positions, we are now in a situation where we are providing foreigners at low cost to compete with the middle class, therefore causing pain to the common citizens.
I can see some elitist attitude in your discussion already, given you assume I am some low-ranking individual complaining about our policies, just because I make my questions known. Therefore, any individual questioning the govt's policies is a low-ranking individual, in your limited scope of thought.
Ohh? So the leaders serve the nation? You are very de smart to say this.Can I ask you then who tells the nation what to do? Is it the Papa and Mama nation?
Since the leaders serve the nation, then certainly it is rude and there's no way a servant can tell the master what to do, just like a worker cannot tell the boss what to do.
But hey, you asked me for my opinions but you cannot accept it with grace. Plus I'm not interested to debate with you, and neither am I your elitist demure girl-next-door.
If next time you want to debate, go find your wife and debate with her how she should be cooking her own recipe dish. Maybe when you realised you need to buy takeaway food for your dinner till eternity, then you will learn how important it is to actually respect other people's opinions instead of debating over things which you shouldn't be debating about.
Told you Singaporeans aren't sensible already, but you don't believe me.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
So you sum up anyone who has anti-PAP sentiments as anti-singapore sentiments?Do you know the difference between a political party, a govt, and a nation?
Are you even able to discern between right and wrong, when you say "many WRONG rebels"?
Have you read carefully what CSJ was suggesting, instead of choosing to believe in what the media reported?
I don't know, but you give me the impression you are very judgemental, together with an elitist attitude.
Don't need to come here and say nobody dare to answer your questions if you don't dare to accept other people's opinions.It's really that simple.
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And to add on, she did mention that singaporeans are afraid of challenges from the foreigners because they are technically inferior n so they want to protect their rice bowls by producing anti foreigners sentiments. I believed that most singaporeans are capable enough to fit in their roles, but foreigners come here willing to work for lesser amounts, bosses looking for cheaper alternatives who can work as competently as you. We cant control this. I believed that there are only a few irreplaceables in the company which is the CEO and shareholders =) Those that are below them have to accept low wages due to "price war" against the foreigners. And also the irreplaceables woud be those army officers in the government sector as the government would not want foreigners to go peek a boo at our military training and secrets. So, I can understand most government officers are PAP die hard fans.
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Originally posted by parn:
Don't need to come here and say nobody dare to answer your questions if you don't dare to accept other people's opinions.It's really that simple.
It's not a question of me accepting your opinions, but since you wish to start on a hostile route in debating, then its always using the same medicine on you.and what's there to accept when you cannot even understand basic ideals of "The leaders serve the nation, not the nation serve the leaders"? The leaders are there to aid the nation in progressing. If the leaders do not meet the standards, they are voted out.
No leadership in a democratic society ever dare to tell its people that "There is no free lunch", "You guys will becomes maids and labourers without us", etc. Only Singapore is the exception with the audacity to treat its people in the way it is doing now.
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Originally posted by mlmersrlosers:
And to add on, she did mention that singaporeans are afraid of challenges from the foreigners because they are technically inferior n so they want to protect their rice bowls by producing anti foreigners sentiments. I believed that most singaporeans are capable enough to fit in their roles, but foreigners come here willing to work for lesser amounts, bosses looking for cheaper alternatives who can work as competently as you. We cant control this. I believed that there are only a few irreplaceables in the company which is the CEO and shareholders =) Those that are below them have to accept low wages due to "price war" against the foreigners. And also the irreplaceables woud be those army officers in the government sector as the government would not want foreigners to go peek a boo at our military training and secrets. So, I can understand most government officers are PAP die hard fans.
Parn needs to understand how a business think in Singapore, or perhaps about human nature.
so long as you provide a cheaper alternative, human nature will usually always make the decision for the cheaper (not necessarily better or more productive). Cost is very real. It's easy to see. It's easy to understand. And the easiest way to keep your business in the black, is to cut costs.
Labour is usually at least 40% of a business's cost, and usually businesses end up being short-sighted and go the easier route of hiring cheaper in order to cut costs.
What Singapore is doing, is a complete striptease. Exposing citizens from all levels of life makes it very unfair, especially when the foreigners come from less wealthy cities, and therefore are able to accept a lower pay.
In our line of business consulting, we always have a term "Saving our customers from themselves". We have to help the customers to understand certain aspects of a business, such as short term cost cutting that might result in long-term loss of competitiveness. It's not always easy to see it, that's why we have a job to do.
For Singapore, it's full exposure of labour market to foreigners at all levels, thereby causing immense pain to locals.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
It's not a question of me accepting your opinions, but since you wish to start on a hostile route in debating, then its always using the same medicine on you.and what's there to accept when you cannot even understand basic ideals of "The leaders serve the nation, not the nation serve the leaders"? The leaders are there to aid the nation in progressing. If the leaders do not meet the standards, they are voted out.
No leadership in a democratic society ever dare to tell its people that "There is no free lunch", "You guys will becomes maids and labourers without us", etc. Only Singapore is the exception with the audacity to treat its people in the way it is doing now.
You asked my opinions with your questions, then you must bear with it no matter what you don't like.What hostile route in debating? Do you mean I must be nice to you? So suddenly I serve you?
Leaders serve nation, Leaders serve people, then who serve leaders? Is it you? I know it's not ME. But since if it isn't you or me and anyone else, are you saying the leaders serve themselves?
Then it isn't wrong if they are helping themselves right now as we speak.
If you asked something(opinions/questions) from someone, it means you need their help. So you shouldn't be ungrateful towards them and pick on their opinions to cure your whatever i-must-find-your-fatal-flaw illness.
Told you Singaporeans are not sensible already, OMG I'm repeating myself like a broken CD!!!
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Parn needs to understand how a business think in Singapore, or perhaps about human nature.
so long as you provide a cheaper alternative, human nature will usually always make the decision for the cheaper (not necessarily better or more productive). Cost is very real. It's easy to see. It's easy to understand. And the easiest way to keep your business in the black, is to cut costs.
Labour is usually at least 40% of a business's cost, and usually businesses end up being short-sighted and go the easier route of hiring cheaper in order to cut costs.
What Singapore is doing, is a complete striptease. Exposing citizens from all levels of life makes it very unfair, especially when the foreigners come from less wealthy cities, and therefore are able to accept a lower pay.
In our line of business consulting, we always have a term "Saving our customers from themselves". We have to help the customers to understand certain aspects of a business, such as short term cost cutting that might result in long-term loss of competitiveness. It's not always easy to see it, that's why we have a job to do.
For Singapore, it's full exposure of labour market to foreigners at all levels, thereby causing immense pain to locals.
If I remember correctly, you asked me for help to answer your questions.So you needed my help, and I have already helped you to answer all your questions.
Why suddenly you think I need your help?
Tell me, is this the part of the drama where I must REJECT your passion?
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Originally posted by parn:
If I remember correctly, you asked me for help to answer your questions.So you needed my help, and I have already helped you to answer all your questions.
Why suddenly you think I need your help?
Tell me, is this the part of the drama where I must REJECT your passion?
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Originally posted by parn:
If I remember correctly, you asked me for help to answer your questions.So you needed my help, and I have already helped you to answer all your questions.
Why suddenly you think I need your help?
Tell me, is this the part of the drama where I must REJECT your passion?
I think you are mistaken.
When someone asks a question, it does not mean one is asking for help.
I ask my customers questions in order to help them with their work.
If you look at it in such a myopic way, there is nothing much else to discuss.
Broken CD? You sure are. A broken human being *shrugs*
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
I think you are mistaken.
When someone asks a question, it does not mean one is asking for help.
I ask my customers questions in order to help them with their work.
If you look at it in such a myopic way, there is nothing much else to discuss.
Broken CD? You sure are. A broken human being *shrugs*
If your customers refused to HELP YOU FIRST by responding to your question, how do you think you can help them later?If you can help your customers without asking them questions, then why do you even ask them questions?
Don't forget they are your customers, you serve them and not the other way around.
Bottomline is, you asked me to help you to answer your question FIRST, so no matter what you say later also will not be counted because you asked me for help to answer your questions.
Please remember these for your own good, because I know it will help you alot.
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A joke which I found in other forums. Just for laugh purpose
You voted for PAP, and you get to pay 7% GST instead of 5%.
You voted for PAP, and they peg power to the price of oil even when 80% of Singapore’s power comes from natural gas.
You voted for PAP and your CPF money gets lock up for another 3 years more than the original.
You voted for PAP, and your ministers demanded a 85% pay raises.
You voted for PAP, and your job went to a foreigner.
You voted for PAP, and your neighbors become foreigners.
You voted for PAP, and your elderly gets to enjoy the dignity of employment by cleaning toilets, scavenging trash bins for aluminum cans and selling tissue papers.
You voted for PAP, and your minsters tell you it is your fault that Mas Selemat escaped.
You voted for PAP, and your government would rather lose millions at sinking foreign banks rather than to save you from starvation.
You voted for PAP, and not only do your ministers literally spit on you, but their scions tell you to “get out of their elite uncaring faces”.
You voted for PAP, and you are amply rewarded with ERPs at your doorstep.
You voted for PAP, and Lee Hsien Loong pledged to fix the oppositions.
You voted for PAP, and you got a Division 3 Prime Minister who needs 2 mentors to hold his hand.
You voted for PAP, and you got a large serving of Mee Siam Mai Hum, at your own expense.
You voted for PAP, and your salary stayed stagnant for more than a decade while the cost of living shoot sky high.
You voted for PAP, and you see the foreign kids get a place in school while you child get zilch.
You voted for PAP, and you find that your public transport is no longer “public”.
You voted for PAP, and your ministers want to house 1,500 foreign workers right smacked in the middle of a peaceful neighborhood without any concerns for you.
You voted for PAP, and the government readily reward your men with more hookers than they can ever poked in Geylang.
You voted for PAP, and your government happily demands $5000 ang pao from you when your maid runaway or get pregnant even though you had nothing to do with it.
You voted for PAP, and your government glorify themselves with Olympic sized banners of their ghastly faces to scare away ghosts during the Chinese 7th month, courtesy of your S&C contribution to your town councils which is suppose to go toward making life in your neighborhood better.
You voted for PAP, and they protect the interests of the petrol companies by making you pump 3/4 tank before you cross the causeway.
You voted for PAP, and they see nothing wrong with fining you for driving a foreign registered car into Singapore.
You voted for PAP, and you discover that world-class super talented multi-million dollar minister with all the state resources and manpowers cannot even catch a limping man in this tiny island state
after more than half a year.
You voted for PAP, and you realise that your MP’s job is not to speak out for you in parliament, but to tell you to tighten the belt, bite the bullet, eat lesser and work longer.
You voted for PAP, and your kids have to stay with you till 40 years old, as they cannot afford the cheapest “public” housing.
You voted for PAP, and your government tells you that their interpretation of subsidies is the profit that they forgo making, instead of actually paying part of the cost.
You voted for PAP, and everyone in Singapore suddenly got elevated to Swiss standard of living, except you, and everyone around you.
You voted for PAP, and your neighbors can sell your home for you (en-block), whether you like it or not.
You voted for PAP, and your organs automatically belongs to the government (HOTA).
You voted for PAP, and you have to pay administration fee to use your own money when you are sick (Medisave).
You voted for PAP, and your sons get to spend 2 or more years as free labour in National Service and 13 more years as reservists, so that the foreigners can have a safe country to work in.
You voted for PAP, and you found out that each of your son is worth $30k, because that is what you are going to get if your son die while serving the foreigners.
You voted for PAP, and you get a grand party every year on 9th August celebrating more salaries for PAP.Not everyone is invited though, you will still have to ballot for it.
You voted for PAP, and they tell you that there is a corner called Hong Lim Park where you can go to talk all you want, other than that, shut up unless you have something nice to say.
You voted for PAP, and you get a world-bottom “nation-building” press serving you the latest propagandas, regardless of truth.
You voted for PAP, and in order to buy a car, you have to first pay for a piece of paper that cost more than the car itself.
You voted for PAP, and you must vote for PAP! You cannot even think about not voting for PAP. Because a certain inaccurate old man said that he will call in the army if you don’t.
So vote for PAP.
Read the list above again, and vote for PAP.
Go ahead, vote for PAP.
More good years eh ?? Vote for PAP.
For Swiss standard of living ?? Vote for PAP. -
Originally posted by parn:
If your customers refused to HELP YOU FIRST by responding to your question, how do you think you can help them later?If you can help your customers without asking them questions, then why do you even ask them questions?
Don't forget they are your customers, you serve them and not the other way around.
Bottomline is, you asked me to help you to answer your question FIRST, so no matter what you say later also will not be counted because you asked me for help to answer your questions.
Please remember these for your own good, because I know it will help you alot.
For your case, you are just trying VERY hard to try to put your argument into perspective.Asking questions doesn't mean that the person asking the question needs help, but asking questions is a process. That's all.
If you want to argue until 1+1 = 2, then go ahead.
Broken record playing all over again.
No one can save you from yourself if you insist on being myopic and stubborn (and childish as well) *shrugs*
And you are getting really stubborn for continuing to not understand the statement "Leaders serve the nation, not the nation serve the leaders". I wonder you ever remember the term "public servant".
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“Tyranny is worse than a Man-Eating Tiger”
“Tyranny is worse than a Man-Eating Tiger”
“苛政猛於虎也”By Dr Wong Wee Nam
Written March 18, 2008On 5th of March 2008, just before the Malaysian General Election, Dr Mohd Mahathir, the former Prime Minister, declared in an exclusive interview with Malaysiakini, the online political website, saying “I believe in an opposition. I have always maintained that this country needs an opposition and they should be critical of the government without which we don’t have a mirror to look at our faces. We think that we are very beautiful but it is the opposition that keeps telling us (that may not be true).”
Of course, true to his style, he could not resist adding that it would be a “disaster” if the country “loses its opposition” as in Singapore.
Such a dig, unfortunately, sounds very much like a pot teasing another pot black because Dr Mahathir has not really been an exemplary democrat himself. Nevertheless it is difficult to disagree with what he says about the need for an opposition unless you are a control freak or have a dictatorial streak in you. He is not wrong because this is a universal principle of democracy. This is also nothing original because many thinkers from the past had said as much.
John Stuart Mill, for example, saw opposing views as a process to crystallize the truth and a way to prevent tyranny.
On 8th March, the voters of Malaysia elected more opposition candidates than anyone had expected. Not that they heeded Dr Mahathir. They simply felt that they needed a stronger opposition.
The Situation in Singapore
However, not everyone in this part of the world feels that an opposition is good. Certainly not the PAP or the 66% Singaporeans who had voted in the 2006 Singapore General Elections. With the help of the media, many Singaporeans still view the opposition as a bunch of trouble-makers who are unable to get their act together.
Citizens who are too active are likely to be branded by some reporters as “radicals”. Give a dog a bad name and hang it. Opposition who are docile and keep quiet will be accused of sleeping in between elections in the hope that when the elections come, voters will tend to “let sleeping dogs lie”. In other words, the GRCs, the re-drawing of electoral boundaries, the climate of fear, the obedient electorate and a media that rank very low on the international freedom scale make sure that the opposition, whether “mad dogs” or “sleeping dogs” are unelectable.
Many Singaporeans have also bought into the argument that our country is too small to have an opposition. We have often been reminded that we are in a region of conflict and if we have a boisterous political scene, we would endanger the security and stability of the country. Everyone knows that Israel is a small country which is perpetually at war. Yet they have a parliament that is divided into many parts by very diverse views. In spite of their small size and political diversity, they are very united when going to war and have superior military capability when confronting their enemies.
Countries with riots and disorder are often held up as examples of opposition-induced chaos when it is precisely the denial of alternative voices that has led to such troubles. Of course this reason is never recognized.
Never have countries with the healthy checks and balances of plural politics e.g. US, UK, Western Europe, Australia, Japan, Canada and New Zealand been held up as models to emulate. In fact political checks and balances are frowned upon as inapplicable Western concepts.
Are Checks and Balances a Western Concept?
Since when have checks and balances been the prerogative of the West? Mencius has taught us that the first essential of a good government is to know the people’s likes and dislikes and to provide for the people what they like and avoid imposing on them what they do not like. How can any government ever know what a population truly like or dislike without allowing for real dissenting views? How can any government know the needs of the people by listening to their own kind?
The need to go beyond sycophants and yes-men to get real feedback has piquantly been record in a story found in The Records of The Warring States: The Record of the State of Qi – The First Volume (战国ç–。é½�ç–一)
Zou Ji 邹忌 was a very handsome official from the State of Qi. He wanted to know if he was as good-looking as the renowned Xu Gong �公 and he asked the people close to him for their opinions. The wife said he was way beyond comparison. His mistress and a friend both also declared that he was far better-looking than Xu Gong.
One day Xu Gong came for a visit and Zou Ji scrutinised him from head to toe. He came to realise that he was nowhere near Xu Gong. That night, he reflected and came to the conclusion that the wife was simply biased, the mistress was just holding him in awe and the friend was seeking patronage. This led him to the view that a ruler should not be blinded by sweet words and good news and should be exposed to all kinds of criticism and he advised King Wei of Qi accordingly.
The King found his suggestion sound and he ordered, “Those who can tell me to my face that I have made a mistake shall be amply rewarded. People who can only point out my faults on paper shall be moderately rewarded. Those who discuss my errors and I get to know about it shall also receive something.”
Following the edict, the response was tremendous and this feedback helped the State of Qi become one of the more respected states during the Warring State Period.
So how can we say that checks and balances are a Western concept?
Why the Need for Opposition?
Why do we need an opposition? First, having a strong Opposition will make it difficult for an authoritarian government to govern in any way they like. This will make a government more transparent thus reducing mistakes in policy decisions and lessen pain for the citizens. It allows citizens to participate in the process of government thus giving the citizens a sense of pride and community.
Without alternative viewpoints, there can only be a monopoly of ideas and a narrow perspective of problems and solutions. Any geneticist will tell you that in-breeding results in poorer quality stocks. The same goes for the in-breeding of ideas. With greater participation and a cross-fertilisation of ideas, there will be a healthier and richer pool of alternative ideas. This means more accurate feedback for the government and a more equitable implementation of policies.
With an alternative viewpoint, the ruling party will be forced to listen more closely to the people or stand the risk of losing more seats to a better group of people. When the ruling party is prepared to listen more closely to the people, they will make policies that are more likely to benefit a wider cross-section of the population and reduce hardships for the voiceless.
When there is a free marketplace of ideas and when people feel that they are being listened to, they will be more likely to participate in peaceful exchanges rather than become apathetic or vent their frustration in a destructive way.
Finally the presence of an opposition will prevent the tyranny of the majority from taking root.
The People Must Decide
The results of the Malaysian general elections show that the will of the people is the ultimate factor in determining the type of government and opposition they want. The headlines of the newspapers on the day of polling rightly told the people: “You are the boss”.
If Singaporeans want a better setup than they have now, each and every one of our citizens must decide whether they want to have a free marketplace of ideas and more vibrant political culture, and work towards that goal.
Each and every one of us must decide whether we want to remain apathetic or be a constructive participant in our country’s affairs.
Each and every one of us must decide whether we want alternative ideas to grow. If so we must be prepared to come forward and contribute and help. We must see it as a duty of citizenship.
The question each and every one of us must ask is: What is my role as a Singaporean? Is this my country or is this a hotel where I sleep, a working place where I earn my living, a shopping centre where I spend what I earn or a country club where I can just give up my membership when it no longer provides me the fun? Am I the boss?
We must no longer believe we are a country with Asian values and must defer without question to the government’s decisions all the time. Some Asian governments like to cite Confucianism as the basis for their authoritarian ways. Does Confucius really advocate autocracy? If we read the story below, we will know that this is just a distortion of Confucius’ teachings.
Confucius was travelling around the Taishan countryside with his disciples when he saw a woman crying copiously over a new grave. He stopped his entourage and asked his disciple Zi Lu to find out what happened. Zi Lu went up to the lady and asked her the reason for her intense grief. The woman replied, “Some years ago, my father-in-law was killed by a tiger. Later my husband was also killed by a tiger and now my son has met the same fate. How can I not be sad?” When Confucius heard this, he asked, “Since there are tigers here, why don’t you move elsewhere?” The woman replied, “This is a remote place, out of reach from the government. The tyranny of the government cannot reach us.” Confucius sighed and turned to his disciples, “You must all remember this. A tyrannical government is worse than a man-eating tiger.” — Book of Rites
Actual Text: å”å�é�Žæ³°å±±å�´ï¼Œæœ‰å©¦äººå“於墓者而哀。夫å�å¼�而è�½ä¹‹ï¼Œä½¿å�è·¯å•�之曰：”å�之å“也，壹似é‡�有憂者。” 而曰：”然ï¼�昔者å�¾èˆ…æ»äºŽè™Žï¼Œå�¾å¤«å�ˆæ»ç„‰ï¼Œä»Šå�¾å�å�ˆæ»ç„‰ã€‚” 夫å�曰：”何為ä¸�去也?” 曰：”無苛政。” 夫了曰：”å°�å�è˜ä¹‹ï¼Œè‹›æ”¿çŒ›æ–¼è™Žä¹Ÿï¼�” — é�¸è‡ªã€Šå��三經注ç–�》本《禮記•æª€å¼“下》
Thus for those who do not believe in a democracy with an opposition, it is good to keep this wise saying of Confucius in mind.
On tyranny in the cloak of democracy, Alexis de Tocqueville has warned us: “Let us beware lest democratic republics should reinstate despotism and render it less odious and degrading in the eyes of the many but making it still onerous to the few.” In such a situation, Democracy would, as Oscar Wilde puts it, “means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people.”
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Originally posted by parn:
Leaders serve nation, Leaders serve people, then who serve leaders? Is it you? I know it's not ME. But since if it isn't you or me and anyone else, are you saying the leaders serve themselves?
Broken CD making noise that makes no sense.Since you love to argue in a myopic definition, do note that you are asking me questions as well, therefore I am HELPING you as well.
Please remember this for your own good, coz I know it will help you a lot.
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“If we don’t stand up for ourselves, who will?”
Singapore Democrats writeup on activist Sylvester Lim
09 July 2008Not one looking for prestige and position Sylvester Lim keeps a low profile, preferring to go about helping the Tak Boleh Tahan! campaign in his winsome and unassuming ways. Together with 17 other activists, Sylvester is charged with taking part in a protest against the rising cost of living in Singapore.
So what made him take the plunge?
“Anger,” he says. “Anger at myself for the fear, the fear of speaking out. I have had enough of being afraid of the government. Almost everyone that we speak with are complaining about the high cost of living.”
“But they feel helpless. They know that the government is very stingy and that it is not doing much to help the masses while it enriches itself.”
“But at the same time, people feel powerless to do anything about the situation. They are almost like giving up hope and just resigning to whatever comes their way.”
Seeing this and after overcoming his own fear, encouraged by the SDP’s leadership by example, Sylvester decided to take up a more prominent role.
“Of course, my wife and I are still afraid of the consequences. We are human beings with feelings. But we care enough for our family and our country. If we don’t make a stand, then who will?” he says. “If everyone waits for the next guy to do something first, nothing will happen.”
So how did he feel when he was first arrested and brought to the police station on 15 Mar 08?
“I was very tense and afraid,” admitted the activist. “But having made up my mind and resolved to stand up against injustice, I got to experience the unfairness of our system first hand.”
“The police officers were doing their jobs with efficiency, but I suspect that they were surprised that we were not scared of them. The positive attitude of my fellow protesters helped to lighten the mood when we were in the lock-up. We even sang songs like We Shall Overcome.”
Will he be afraid when he goes to court on 11 July to answer charges of conducting a procession and assembly without a permit?
“No. What we are doing is not wrong and should be encouraged. The government should be afraid, as more and more people are standing up against it. We can see the rise in the support for our actions and it is this spark that will become a raging fire.”
A doting husband and father, Sylvester acknowledges that he is fortunate to have his wife who is supportive of what he does. Initially, because of the fear, she did not want him to be too exposed and to be in the frontline.
“But having met Dr Chee and the rest over a period of time, we are convinced that this was the right thing to do,” he says.
“When the police delivered the charge letter to my residence, my wife calmly signed for it on my behalf,” he recounts. “When my son asked about it, she just told him in front of the officers that the government wanted to charge his father for protesting. The police seemed surprised that they were not intimidated and accepted the letter so readily.”
In this regard, Sylvester who runs his own business, is unlike his fellow Singaporeans.
“No,” he disagrees, “we are just normal Singaporeans wanting a better life for ourselves, our children, family and our country. We love our country and want our country to be a better place to live, work and retire. The only difference is that we have overcome the fear of the government.”
Sylvester harbours the hope of seeing a freer society in Singapore, one whose citizens are able to speak out freely, one that is compassionate and dynamic. This comes with more opposition in parliament where policies are debated robustly.
“I especially want to see our children placed under less stress and more welfare assistance for our elderly,” he adds. “When I heard my son and his friends wanting to leave Singapore for good, I feel very sad for our country. In fact, many of them have already left Singapore.”
The mild-mannered defender of democracy has a simple yet profound message for his fellow Singaporeans: “Individually, we cannot do much. But as a large group supporting each other, we can change Singapore.”
“How long more are we Singaporeans going to continue to live in fear and allow the government to do anything they want without consequences?”
“If we don’t step forward, who is going to? If we don’t take action, who is going to make the change for our families?”
Sylvester ended the interview with these telling words: “There is something wrong with our society and we need to have the moral courage to stand up and take action. We are just normal Singaporeans who love our country and do what we should be doing as citizens.”
We urge all of you reading Sylvester’s words to take action. You don’t have to do anything earth-shattering to contribute to the cause. Just come to Sub-Court No. 23 at 9 am this Friday and say hello to those who have been charged.
It will mean a lot to Singaporeans like Sylvester, Suraya, Jufri and Jaslyn who have heeded the call of democracy and stepped forward to hold aloft the flame of democracy.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Broken CD making noise that makes no sense.Since you love to argue in a myopic definition, do note that you are asking me questions as well, therefore I am HELPING you as well.
Please remember this for your own good, coz I know it will help you a lot.
Broken CD? I see that you have agreed with me without any difficulty at all.You are making good progress already.
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Originally posted by parn:
Broken CD? I see that you have agreed with me without any difficulty at all.You are making good progress already.
Of coz, I never did say I won't agree on things with youEspecially on the part you are a broken CD
But jokes aside, your stance and mine differ, and I respect your right to make a stand, though I do seriously disagree with your comments on leadership (which you weren't really answering at all), and on Singaporeans being just average.
It is noted that Singaporeans are ranked no. 1 in terms of productivity in the world before.
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“I will not live by fear”: Activist, businesswoman, mother
July 4, 2008 by admin
Filed under: Civil and political rights, Political Discussions, Voices of the People
Singapore Democrats interview with activist Jaslyn Go
03 July 2008“I will not live by fear”: Activist, businesswoman, mother
What prompts a young mother of two to stand up for her rights and the rights of her fellow citizens in a country known for crushing dissent with frightening efficiency? This is a question that many Singaporeans will ask if they met Jaslyn Go Hui Leng.
This is because Ms Go is one of the 18 Singaporeans charged with taking part in an assembly and procession without a permit on 15 Mar this year.
That event launched the Tak Boleh Tahan! campaign which is aimed at highlighting the PAP Government’s raising of prices and fees that has thrown hundreds of thousands of Singaporeans into economic disarray and hardship.
And what will be her answer?
“I will not live by the fear the PAP seeks to instill in its citizens,” explains Ms Go. “They can try to cripple me with arrest, jail or fine, but they can’t stop me from speaking up.”
So what does the financial plight of workers have to do with a successful businesswoman who leads a more-than-comfortable lifestyle with her family?
“I used to be very poor when I was young,” explained Ms Go, “now that I am better off, I hope I can do my part and highlight the plight our elderly and poor in Singapore are going through.”
“If we continue to allow the PAP to rule with an iron fist, the people’s problems will not be addressed and I fear that the younger generation will suffer more than we are now as the cost of living are skyrocketing and our jobs are being taken over by foreigners.”
The Singapore Democrats first came to know Ms Go during the vigil outside the Burmese embassy in September 2007. Since then, the vivacious and determined advocate of democracy has been actively helping to promote human rights in Singapore.
“Prior to the protest, I tried in my own ways to engage the government by writing to my MP, Tanjong Pagar GRC MPs, and the Straits Times. But time and again they refused to reply to me, or publish my letters,” she writes in her blog.
There is a steely quality about Ms Go that pushes her on. And it is not just starry-eyed ideals that propels the lady’s actions; she makes no bones that she is also doing this for the sake of her two children, aged 3 and 5.
Children in Singapore have been deprived of quality life which is so stressful even for young children, she points out.
“Child suicide has been on the rise. The root of the problem lies in the stiff competition that our children are being put through in school,” says Ms Go. “I hope this can be a thing of the past.”
Asked what she hopes for in the next 5 to 10 years, Ms Go replies that she would like to see elderly folks who have contributed to Singapore’s progress be taken care of by the government and not reduced to collecting cardboard boxes and empty drink cans to eke out a living.
And how does she think this can be achieved?
“I hope to see a change in government to a more humane one that puts the country and the citizens first.”
Ms Go will appear in Subordinate Court 23 together with the other 17 activists.
Many Singaporeans shy away from engaging in the public process by claiming that they have their families to think about. Such fear is a damning indictment of the PAP. Be that as it may, Ms Go’s example and courage should be a ringing call to citizens of this country to overcome their fearful inertia and become actively involved in matters that concern their everyday lives as well as their future.
Singaporeans can get involved by taking the first step next Friday, 11 Jul 08. Come down to the Subordinate Courts at 9 am to lend your support to this woman of incredible courage as well as to the other activists who have stood up for justice and democracy in Singapore.
If Singapore had more committed citizens like Ms Go, this country would be a much better place to live in.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
Of coz, I never did say I won't agree with things with youEspecially on the part you are a broken CD
But jokes aside, your stance and mine differ, and I respect your right to make a stand, though I do seriously disagree with your comments on leadership (which you weren't really answering at all), and on Singaporeans being just average.
It is noted that Singaporeans are ranked no. 1 in terms of productivity in the world before.
I already answered your comments on leadership, you need to go back and read the posts again if you have missed my comments on leadership.And since when did I agree to debate about your opinions on average Singaporeans? (if there's any)
I only support my own opinions and helped you by replying to your Pro-PAP questions, even though I'm not Pro-PAP.
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Originally posted by parn:
I already answered your comments on leadership, you need to go back and read the posts again if you have missed my comments on leadership.And since when did I agree to debate about your opinions on average Singaporeans? (if there's any)
I only support my own opinions and helped you by replying to your Pro-PAP questions, even though I'm not Pro-PAP.
Nope, you did not reply on the questions. Many of them, you skirt by, especially on the justification of our leaders' pay.
Therefore, since you have no answer for those, then we shall not debate on it.
You have been saying that Singaporeans are afraid of foreigners coz they may now know where they stand in their capabilities.
I am just telling you that there is a study that stated that Singaporeans are one of the most productive workforces in the world. Therefore, it's hardly what you stated.
And you got it wrong, I am asking questions, questions which are neither pro-PAP, nor anti-PAP. And also, the questions are just questions that I find pro-PAP members do not dare to properly answer, and so I stated them here again.
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A portrait of love, honour and courage
Singapore Democrats writeup on activists Suraya and Jufri
07 July 2008Does this look like a picture of criminals? It will when the PAP Government is done with mum and papa. This is because both Suraya and Jufri have been charged, together with 16 other activists, for participating in an assembly and procession without a permit on 15 Mar 08.
But the young couple has won the admiration of the Singapore Democrats and many Singaporeans. How many couples with three lovely children actually find the courage to stand up for Singapore? And we don’t mean just mouthing jingles in August.
So why did Suraya and Jufri join in the protest outside Parliament House?
“The pressure of inflation is one of the main reasons that drove me to join the TBT campaign,” explains Jufri. “I am asking the government to hear the citizens’ call for the reduction of prices of daily necessities such as electricity bills and commodities.”
What about mummy?
“With three young children it is not easy for me to be an activist as I have to juggle almost everything in life. And now, it is even more stressful for me after being charged for illegal assembly and procession,” Suraya relates.
While Jufri was arrested and escorted to the waiting police van, Suraya was in the background with the children. The youngest, aged 2, was in the stroller. But that didn’t stop the ever-so-full-of-integrity PAP Government from prosecuting her as well.
So what will she tell her kids when she attends court this Friday?
“I will tell them that I did all these for Singapore’s future and also for our family’s,” intoned the brave mother. “My children will be the activists of the next generation.”
Jufri agrees. Like any husband and father he does not want to see anything happen to his family. “But for the sake of securing a better future for my kids, I did what I did and I have no regrets!”
“By the way,” he adds, “the PAP doesn’t scare me!”
And neither, apparently, do the officers in blue. Jufri recalled that he did not feel fear when the police dragged him away. His mind was focused on his family: “I was just upset that I had promised my children that I would take them to the movies. I could feel their disappointment.”
But Jufri has little to be concerned about with a wife as clear-minded and straightforward as Suraya who says that she is committed to a democratic Singapore because she believes that “if we work hand in hand, we will have a better future for Singapore, especially on human rights issues.”
She believes that there is a lot more support for the opposition, but that fear is preventing Singaporeans from expressing that support. “Malays say lembu cucuk hidung — cows that are pulled by the nose — a saying meant for those who are forced to follow orders and cannot express their own free will.”
Jufri prefers to look to the the future. He hopes and prays in 5 to 10 years’ time to see “our Singapore become a nation that practices freedom and democracy, and equality for all Singaporeans.”
“Let us go back to our Singapore Pledge that our children say everyday. Are we walking the talk? I just want to see that the pledge become a reality one day!”
Suraya and Jufri attended a workshop on Nonviolence a few years ago. They both watched CSJ’s message before prison and Freedom walk on Youtube and were greatly moved by what they saw in the videos. They have remained steadfast to the reform campaign ever since. Even in the intervening years, when the family grew from four to five, both democracy advocates remained active in helping with behind-the-scenes work.
So what message do they have for Singaporeans?
“Do what you think is right. Do not be paralysed by fear, as fear is what the oppressors have been instilling in us since day one. Do not let them take away what belongs to us. Remember, we were born free as any other peoples around the world!”
Fellow Singaporeans, come Friday Jul 11, stand up for Suraya and Jufri as they have so courageously stood up for you when they took part in the protest outside Parliament House. Come down to Subordinate Court No. 23 at 9 am, and give them the moral support that they need at this time.
Singaporeans like them are so rare and precious. Don’t look the other way again. Make time and effort so that we can all stand up for each other. It is unity that will give us the strength to overcome this oppression and usher in an era of hope.
Let’s do the right thing.
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Originally posted by soul_rage:
To date, no pro-PAP supporter has dared to reply back on my challenges below:
These so called pro PAP supporters still have fear in their hearts.
They are still scared to death to criticise PAP, criticise Lee Kuan Yew.
They are still afraid.
They are covered in fear of PAP.
In fear of Lee Kuan Yew.
From now on, I will confront these people and try to help them to overcome their fear of PAP and Lee Kuan Yew.
I must help them.