Is Singapore a better place without foreigners?
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Is Singapore a better place without foreigners?
Saturday, 21 November 2009, 10:30 pm | 622 views
The following is a comment posted on TOC by “AAA”, under the article, “How Singapore appreciates a PRC who tried to integrate”. The author of the comment describes himself as a “PRC scholar”. TOC tried to get in touch with him but our email failed to be delivered to the email address the author provided.
Nonetheless, we publish it here, without edits, for discussion purposes.
Hi TOCI am a PRC scholar and I have graduated from a local university, just a few months ago.
I have subscribed to TOC RSS feed since last month, and from here I’ve learnt a lot about Singapore, and how people here view us foreigners. I believe it’s always good to hear difference voices.
Before I came here, I didn’t really know much about how Singaporeans see China, and of course I didn’t know the debate on whether to import more “foreign talents” had been on for such a long time.
Now almost five years have passed and I have started working. I have a more complete picture of this society, its people, and how they think, especially after my 5-month long job seeking.
Firstly, I feel it’s difficult to draw a conclusion on whether your policy is right or wrong. However, when I see a Singaporean trying very hard to communicate with food stall staff who can only speak Chinese, I also feel very “strange”. My feeling is that they are very nice people, but they didn’t go through proper language training, or they are allocated to the wrong place.
When we talk about “integration”, there is no doubt that efforts have to be made from both sides. If you are rational, you won’t make any generalization based on a single incident and/or what you assume to be the case.
China is a very special country. Its complexity and diversity is so huge that it is not easy for pure “city boys and city girls” to understand at first glance. I grew up in a large city with 6 million population, but I got the chance to meet with many people in the countryside, and some of them are my relatives. When the mainland people started spreading overseas thirty years ago, we saw people from different classes going out to find a “better life”, or just make money. Within the country, more and more farmers go to large cities in East China to make a living. Yet, the majority of the population (60%) are still living in villages and small towns. And that, creates the big gap between the rich and poor.
So… when you see a male from China on the street, he can be a businessman, a movie star like Jet Li, a scholar like me, or a construction worker who only earns 700 sin-dollars a month. They are from different regions, with different educational backgrounds, different dreams, and very different “quality”. In large cities of China like Shanghai, it’s exactly the same thing. We are used to that, while I find a lot of Singaporeans are not comfortable or “satisfied” with that, or some of them find the construction workers “annoying”. “Diversity” is a big theme in the world. People of different classes live together, and that’s what a metropolis usually look like in the current world, no matter it’s an European or American or Asian city. Yes, they are making money, and… contributing to this society. Meanwhile, they behave in a way they are made to.
Sorry if I’m wrong.
The real question is: Is Singapore a better place without these foreigners? What would be your plan if you were MM Lee? Is that plan feasible?
Secondly, a lot people settle down in Singapore after coming here, and yes, a lot of them leave this place and go to other countries or go back to China. For me, we are bonded to work in Singapore for six years, and I don’t see a a lot of people go to other countries immediately after graduation. Most will at least fulfill the bond, and then, they will make a choice. That’s the whole story. For those studying in private schools, no matter where they go afterwards, they have paid more than what they get. I think on this issue, you can trust your government. They will do fine calculations.
In term of human development, I think Singapore is in-between China and the US. China is rich in culture and resources, and usually you will find more delicious dishes in China, than in i.e. Singapore. However, a lot of people in China are not that disciplined and polite as some of you. That’s true. And there’re some not so nice Singaporeans as well. And there are very big flaws in the system, which could collapse and cause riots any time. There’s a long way to go.
I really admire MM Lee as a great leader in modern Asia. He leads a small country, but he’s been playing big politics. And he’s one of the few who still have such a clear mind at this age. His promotion of English education is politically successful. However, it makes most Singaporeans not have decent knowledge or even decent language skills in Mandarin or English. You are definitely smart people, but just my advise, you need more “culture”. For example, it’s very hard for me to find a Singaporean student to discuss about Chinese History, or Europeans History, in a decent way. It seems that your system make your “values” limited. It’s also not easy to find gifts to bring home for my relatives.
But overall, Singapore is still a model for China, just like 30 years ago when we just opened up. No matter how rich China will become, if people only go for money without knowing how to care for others and taking social responsibilities, China will never be the Han China or Tang China again.
“Integration” is a long, and maybe a frustrating process. Things will only change when better “understanding” is developed.
P.S. Chinese girls are not coming here to steal your husbands.. LOL, it’s the same thing everywhere. Some Singaporean girls will also “steal” other people’s husbands, right? Human nature.. Just take good care of him and make yourself stay charming. Btw I’m male.
Sorce: The Temasek Review
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Is Singapore a better place without foreigners?
That goes without saying.
Only PAP fucking propagandists would argue otherwise.
PAP and their motherfucking hidden agendas.
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I really admire MM Lee as a great leader in modern Asia. He leads a small country, but he’s been playing big politics. And he’s one of the few who still have such a clear mind at this age. His promotion of English education is politically successful.
This guy doesn't know much about politics.
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interesting review. nicely said=) its true singaporeans r lacking in culture bah, but i guess its coz we r still concentrating on growing on other values. our country's leaders have chose to lead us on this route to grow n we have grown that way, but i guess we r still on the way to building our culture, unlike china which has a rich culture since it started.
as for the question title, i dun think its fair to say its a better place without foreigners, but honestly, how many singaporeans now r willing to do some of the dirty jobs the foreigners r doing now, like construction, rubbish collection n stuff. juz quoting one of the examples. singapore needs people to grow faster n stronger, so that is what the govt is trying to get.
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10, 20 years ago singapore do not have that much foreigners.
So? Whats the big deal?
Singapore still survived what
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Originally posted by darkhour:
interesting review. nicely said=) its true singaporeans r lacking in culture bah, but i guess its coz we r still concentrating on growing on other values. our country's leaders have chose to lead us on this route to grow n we have grown that way, but i guess we r still on the way to building our culture, unlike china which has a rich culture since it started.
That doesn't seem to be accurate.
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Basically, this typical PRC guy is talking about China peoples coming here, he is not objective enough, because singapore govt is not talking about only China Chinese here. We are attracting a diverse kind of people here, from Vietnam to India, from Europe to USA. Not just China. We know what the chinese are thinking, because our most of our high end govt are Chinese, our objectives of educating foreigners here thru scholarship and bonds is not asking you to stay and be Singapore citizens, go back to china if you wanted to go back. Our objective is to let you know about singapore, so that went you are back in your own country, be it china or india or anywhere, you will have a piece of life here, bearing that in mind, as graduate, you would hold top position in your country companies, you may become a top business man, CEO or MD or even directors, the trick is, we hope that you can do business with us as you know Singapore well and trust us.
Therefore, by attracting a diverse multi national talent students here by giving them scholarship and have a taste of Singapore, we hope that they remember us and have a thought for us in the near future when they are doing business. As for wanting to become a citizen here and carry on living here, that is not the issue, that is a more personal issue, it is up to individual, we cannot force that as we believe in freedom. It is of no use keeping someone here with a heart and mind of his motherland.
PS: PRC gals definitely are not here to steal husband, they are here to take money away from husband, as much as they can, they will return the husband once the well is dry, I know many of them. Btw, i am a female.
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A rather myopic view.
Singapore does not have culture, because we are always having people come in to add on to our population. Those people are culturally different from us. As the saying goes, "a rolling stone gathers no moss", we are therefore culture-less.
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Personally, i think we're worse off without foreigners.
I've learnt quite abit from them.
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Originally posted by Greytan49:
P.S. Chinese girls are not coming here to steal your husbands.. LOL, it’s the same thing everywhere. Some Singaporean girls will also “steal” other people’s husbands, right? Human nature.. Just take good care of him and make yourself stay charming. Btw I’m male.
Another silly and short sighted point of view of PRC girls. Objectivity is disputable.
We all know that the PRC girls are not interested in old men. Come on, if you ever take a bus ride down chinatown or other red light districts, it can be commonly observed that the men who these sluts pull and act cute with are around 50s - 60s. Why is that so? Please do not think of the PRC girls as stupid; they merely lack moral values that the Chinese preach. They know that these men have CPF, more commonly known as "Caress prostitute fund".
As angel7030 has put across - these women are not here to steal husbands, they are here to rob the husband's family of their finances, of their social stability. -
Originally posted by donkhead333:
A rather myopic view.
Singapore does not have culture, because we are always having people come in to add on to our population. Those people are culturally different from us. As the saying goes, "a rolling stone gathers no moss", we are therefore culture-less.
You know i've seen the phrase "we don't have a culture" being toss around so often i really don't quite understand what it means.
What's the point at which you define whether the people of a country have culture or not ? Is there a line drawn in the sand that we must cross in order to be defined as whether we have a culture?
If the argument is that foreigners are culturally different from us, don't we actually need a culture in order to be different?
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Personally, i think we're worse off without foreigners.
I've learnt quite abit from them.
I believe that having foreigners to take up jobs that require a certain speciality that no Singaporean has is reasonable. It is crucial for economic development. But what is the point of having them here to compete with locals in average paying jobs?
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Originally posted by donkhead333:
I believe that having foreigners to take up jobs that require a certain speciality that no Singaporean has is reasonable. It is crucial for economic development. But what is the point of having them here to compete with locals in average paying jobs?
I certainly do not disagree with you on this point, i do think the government has gone overboard with the immigration.
But when i read the title it suggests a either/or scenario of which i don't desire either. There is too much foreigners yes, but i still want them around. We're worse off without them.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
You know i've seen the phrase "we don't have a culture" being toss around so often i really don't quite understand what it means.
What's the point at which you define whether the people of a country have culture or not ? Is there a line drawn in the sand that we must cross in order to be defined as whether we have a culture?
If the argument is that foreigners are culturally different from us, don't we actually need a culture in order to be different?
There is a difference between a melting pot and salad bowl.
Do we actually mix well with a large population of PRC workers? No. Neither do they mix around with us. We stay segregated in our own bubbles.
There are so many different cultures here, Singaporean chinese/malay/indian, PRCs, Malaysians, Indians. Rarely do we have the opportunity to interact and to accept one another. Taking a look at PRC construction workers who frequent Pearl's Centre during weekend in throngs simply comes to show the lack of well developed bridges with locals. But they are not to blame, as in the US, Asians are known to stick in their own groups.
However, Singapore's case is unique. Taking the local Singaporean population (in numbers) against the foreigners we have allowed in in the past few years has severely diluted the Singaporean population in this country. An example would be the language, the accent we carry. Very often, we hear people speak differently (accent, sentence structure even, sometimes in the language itself), so much so that the observed linguistic patterns in the general population a few years back has shrunk dramatically.
It is not that we are against foreigners. What we are against is the sudden influx of foreigners who we had no prior experience in dealing with them.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
I certainly do not disagree with you on this point, i do think the government has gone overboard with the immigration.
But when i read the title it suggests a either/or scenario of which i don't desire either. There is too much foreigners yes, but i still want them around. We're worse off without them.
Yup.
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Originally posted by donkhead333:
There is a difference between a melting pot and salad bowl.
Do we actually mix well with a large population of PRC workers? No. Neither do they mix around with us. We stay segregated in our own bubbles.
There are so many different cultures here, Singaporean chinese/malay/indian, PRCs, Malaysians, Indians. Rarely do we have the opportunity to interact and to accept one another. Taking a look at PRC construction workers who frequent Pearl's Centre during weekend in throngs simply comes to show the lack of well developed bridges with locals. But they are not to blame, as in the US, Asians are known to stick in their own groups.
However, Singapore's case is unique. Taking the local Singaporean population (in numbers) against the foreigners we have allowed in in the past few years has severely diluted the Singaporean population in this country. An example would be the language, the accent we carry. Very often, we hear people speak differently (accent, sentence structure even, sometimes in the language itself), so much so that the observed linguistic patterns in the general population a few years back has shrunk dramatically.
It is not that we are against foreigners. What we are against is the sudden influx of foreigners who we had no prior experience in dealing with them.
Personally, i find the idea that we're changing with the influx an exciting idea.
But I am a believer of evolution and believe that maintaining cultural purity to be a rather unnatural idea.
But let's be frank, how could the PRC construction workers mix with us when we don't work on the same level with them? I'm certainly not advocating that we hold their hands and sing kumbaya but i don't think they're actually making any conscious effort to distance themselves from us but we just don't really have any chance to interact with them.Same with the immigrant workers from India, Indonesia and Philipines.
I would think the Japanese are the ones who make the biggest effort to distance themselves from the local population. They have Japanese supermarkets and bookshops that only have Japanese books. Even my Japanese colleagues make a conscious effort not to eat with us or even to converse. To me, that's the direction i don't want to see us moving towards.
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wats in for me?
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Personally, i find the idea that we're changing with the influx an exciting idea.
But I am a believer of evolution and believe that maintaining cultural purity to be a rather unnatural idea.
My thinking and your thinking is complete opposite. That's interesting.
But I am a believer of evolution and believe that maintaining cultural purity to be a rather unnatural idea.
Like that national identity and nation building will be weak.
That will cause problems for the society.
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I mean dun cut off the foreigners, but limit their numbers pls. make it a point they dun come here to compete with the locals for jobs. when in recession, limit the foreigners coming here so that locals can have jobs.
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In the end the PAP must be overthrown before anything can change.
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those foreigners coming to Singapore to be CEO of big local companies like NOL, DBS etc, then how to ever grow the pool of Singaporeans ready to be CEO's. then you never can have a Singaporean CEO helming the big local companies.
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Originally posted by angel3070:
In the end the PAP must be overthrown before anything can change.
I dun think we can see it in our lifetime. maybe your children's children generation ba.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
I dun think we can see it in our lifetime. maybe your children's children generation ba.
I don't accept that. Lee Kuan Yew is going to die.
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Originally posted by angel3070:
I don't accept that. Lee Kuan Yew is going to die.
so what? still got his son PM and lau goh helming.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
so what? still got his son PM and lau goh helming.
But there may be splits in the party after Lee Kuan Yew is dead.
The game changes after Lee Kuan Yew is dead.