dr lim hock siew speaks for the 1st time post-detention
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dr lim hock siew gave an impassioned account of his ordeal under imprisonment/isa.
one wonders how singapore would have turn out if these leaders were given a chance to serve....
(i posted this in speaker's corner but this was moved. i think it is been more appropriate that this remains in speakers corner as it is more relevant. click on this link for the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqhr4wxUFws
http://sgforums.com/forums/2388/topics/381973
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Synopsis of Dr Lim Hock Siew's speech:-
"Today they are asking us to be magnanimous. What does magnanimity mean?
Only those who have suffered have the moral right, the moral standing to be magnanimous, not the culprit. The culprit can seek forgiveness if they admit their mistakes and apologize for it. Not for the victims of this torture to seek forgiveness.
We are the ones who have to be magnanimous and we are prepared to be magnanimous provided the culprits admit their mistakes and seek our forgiveness."
"On that question of release unconditionally – that we stood firm. I stood firm and had to suffer for two decades. That is the price we had to pay for our integrity.
In Singapore we have a situation where the government leaders said they have integrity that has to be sustained by the highest pay in the world, but yet they demand from political opponents and detainees an integrity that has to be sustained by the longest imprisonment in the world.
These kind of two types of integrity – to compare them is to compare Heaven and Earth.
Why should anybody has to sacrifice so much just to sustain his integrity and his beliefs? And the government have to reward themselves with so much high pay.
This is the immorality of the political situation in Singapore today."
"Detention without trial is not a peaceful action. It is an act of violence. They come to see you not in the daylight with an invitation card. They come in the morning at 4am that is the time when decent people sleep, and when political terrorists and tyrants strike. And when you are detained you are subjected to all kinds of mental and even physical torture."
"Some of you may have heard that when you are young, you are idealistic, when you’re old , you are realistic. Now this is the kind of rubbish that is used by those who have either lost their ideals, or have sold their ideals for self-interests.
Each should not wither one’s ideals or convictions. If anything, it should only consolidate and make it more resolute. If age has anything to do with it, it is only by way of expression and application of these ideals and convictions having the benefit of youthful experiences.
And a Life without convictions, without idealism is a mere meaningless existence."
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Haiz! just intergrity, he had to suffer, quite stupid indeed, he should learn from Gopalan, apologise then migrate back to USA and make comments from there.
And where is our Christmas island?
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Haiz! just intergrity, he had to suffer, quite stupid indeed, he should learn from Gopalan, apologise then migrate back to USA and make comments from there.
And where is our Christmas island?
i don't think many people here expect you to understand.and you proved it here...
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Originally posted by redDUST:
i don't think many people here expect you to understand.and you proved it here...
20 years, not only me dun understand, u ask any 20++yo or even 30++ yo singaporeans, they also dun understand or not even bother to understand.Sympathy aside, isn't is plain stupid for guys to hold on to their intergrity just because of pride and ego??? why not just go along with them, leave this country and fight for another day. At time, when you are an egg, dun think you still a solid rock, play the game and then, after early release, from behind strike LKY out of his life. Now already old old with full of sickness, how to fight, talk until cow come home also no use.
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Originally posted by redDUST:
i don't think many people here expect you to understand.and you proved it here...
OKP will never understand, only know how to exploit women's body to make $$$.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
OKP will never understand, only know how to exploit women's body to make $$$.
Hello, me not OKP ok, i understood, Lim Yew Hock is a good man, just that he did not learn to play his game well, when time to run, he did not run. He should be had pampered the British before LKY did, anyway, in politics, it is dirty, the winner takes it all, me go working liao -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Hello, me not OKP ok, i understood, Lim Yew Hock is a good man, just that he did not learn to play his game well, when time to run, he did not run. He should be had pampered the British before LKY did, anyway, in politics, it is dirty, the winner takes it all, me go working liaoDo you exploit the women's body to make an immoral living?
If not OKP then what new names have they come up with in this modern age?
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Do you exploit the women's body to make an immoral living?
If not OKP then what new names have they come up with in this modern age?
Certified Public relationship Officer -
Originally posted by angel7030:
Haiz! just intergrity, he had to suffer, quite stupid indeed, he should learn from Gopalan, apologise then migrate back to USA and make comments from there.
And where is our Christmas island?
It is a damning insult to Dr Lim Hock Siew moral values for a worthless Taiwan "hum" to berate the sacrifices and pain endured by him and his family.The filthy words from the "Hum" have caused the wounds suffered by Dr Lim to be open and cut deeper with double the hurt, when the words are from a Taiwan "Hum" that is totally ignorant about Singapore's dirty politics - except for the snippets of its shallow knowledge planted from the propaganda filth that the "hum" will thrive on.
It is even more insulting coming from a Taiwanese "Hum" who has no integrity of its own to boast about, when it will shamelessly berate its own kind by trading its flesh for cash.
Why does the Taiwanese "Hum" not have the integrity to trade its flesh back in its own country ?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
It is a damning insult to Dr Lim Hock Siew moral values for a worthless Taiwan "hum" to berate the sacrifices and pain endured by him and his family.The filthy words from the "Hum" have caused the wounds suffered by Dr Lim to be open and cut deeper with double the hurt, when the words are from a Taiwan "Hum" that is totally ignorant about Singapore's dirty politics - except for the snippets of its shallow knowledge planted from the propaganda filth that the "hum" will thrive on.
It is even more insulting coming from a Taiwanese "Hum" who has no integrity of its own to boast about, when it will shamelessly berate its own kind by trading its flesh for cash.
Why does the Taiwanese "Hum" not have the integrity to trade its flesh back in its own country ?
I am not insulting him, the question here is simple, if Lim Yew Hock is to win the election in 1963 instead of LKY, do you think he will let LKY alive??? We got be clear and be just about it. Come on Uncle, this is politics, how many had Mao killed to go up, how many had Hilter, stalin, Fidel, or even Mahatir killed and jailed others...it is not about playing monopoly game, it is between life and death. -
Originally posted by angel7030:
I am not insulting him, the question here is simple, if Lim Yew Hock is to win the election in 1963 instead of LKY, do you think he will let LKY alive??? We got be clear and be just about it. Come on Uncle, this is politics, how many had Mao killed to go up, how many had Hilter, stalin, Fidel, or even Mahatir killed and jailed others...it is not about playing monopoly game, it is between life and death.
If you are not insulting Dr Lim Hock Siew - are your praising him with these words in your post on 17 Nov 09 - 05.20PM ?"Haiz! just intergrity, he had to suffer, quite stupid indeed, he should learn from Gopalan, apologise then migrate back to USA and make comments from there"
If you have no sympathy - you should not make such insulting remarks when Dr Lim had spent 20 years locked up as it is a matter of principle that he had done no wrong, and that he should not give in to LKY's vanity to have his political opponents to submit to his will.
Where is your sense of value, for you to call Dr Lim "just intergrity, he had to suffer, quite stupid indeed" ?
With your kind of integrity and sense of values - no one will be surprised that you will let yourself be raped then to stand on your principle.
This is the kind of Taiwanese "hum" values that we do not need.
Is there any need for your to digress and attempt to smoke your way out of this stupidity that only you are capable of performing ?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
If you are not insulting Dr Lim Hock Siew - are your praising him with these words in your post on 17 Nov 09 - 05.20PM ?"Haiz! just intergrity, he had to suffer, quite stupid indeed, he should learn from Gopalan, apologise then migrate back to USA and make comments from there"
If you have no sympathy - you should not make such insulting remarks when Dr Lim had spent 20 years locked up as it is a matter of principle that he had done no wrong, and that he should not give in to LKY's vanity to have his political opponents to submit to his will.
Where is your sense of value, for you to call Dr Lim "just intergrity, he had to suffer, quite stupid indeed" ?
With your kind of integrity and sense of values - no one will be surprised that you will let yourself be raped then to stand on your principle.
This is the kind of Taiwanese "hum" values that we do not need.
Is there any need for your to digress and attempt to smoke your way out of this stupidity that only you are capable of performing ?
People are talking about Lim Hock Siew and the hum or okp is talking about Lim Yew Hock!
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Originally posted by 4sg:
People are talking about Lim Hock Siew and the hum or okp is talking about Lim Yew Hock!
After being put in the spotlight for insulting the 80 year old Dr Lim Hock Siew, the Taiwan "hum" is now attempting to distract attention from its grave mistake by using the near similar name of Lim Yew Hock to Lim Hock Siew.The Taiwanese "hum" must think that Singaporeans are idiots in its not so subtle efforts to insult the integrity of Singaporeans with its petty irrerevent and petulent statements with disguised mischief as its cover.
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In the video clip, Lim Hock Siew claimed that the merger with Malaysia was an attempt to destroy the Opposition. I've heard/read this many times.
This is something I don't understand. I mean how can it be so? With the ISA, all the govt needed to do was to invoke the act. No need to beat around the bush, right?Something I don't comprehen because I dont belong to that generation and maybe someone can explain it better?
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Originally posted by 4sg:
With the ISA, all the govt needed to do was to invoke the act. No need to beat around the bush, right?
I think it has something to do with the internal security council which was really controlled by the british at the time.
Lee Kuan Yew didn't have a freehand to move against the opposition as he wanted.
So probably some mutual agreement on both sides, Malaysia and Singapore, before the final blow against the opposition could be unleashed.
Singapore was able to chart its own destiny only to a limited extent with self-government in 1959, for defence and foreign affairs remained with the colonial authorities, and internal security was the responsibility of the Internal Security Council, on which both Britain and Malaya were represented. Moreover, the British High Commissioner in Singapore retained the power to suspend the Constitution in an emergency and take charge of the government.
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Oops, got the wrong guy,
, sorry sorry. Alway think of Lim Yew Hock, i think he is more famous than Lim Hock Siew, name sound like the same, are they related??Anyway, either Yew Hock or Hock Siew or Pig Hock, I am going to say once again, if you are not ruthless, cunning, smart and have a good foresight of things to come, you better dun join politics, I think all these peoples do not have that capability. Sad, but it is true. They will be better off if they had either joined LKY in PAP or be some lecturers or businessmen and live happily everafter with 3 to 4 wifeys.
Just a question for my Uncle Flash Atobe, how much does per kg of intergrity worth? If you tell me that intergrity is intangible, I said it is worth nothing. In many a times, in history of kingdoms and dynasties, you had read about princes and ministers kowtow to it master (king or emperor) with an ulterior motives, they dun losing all their intergrity for the objective of success when time for coup de grace arrive. And when you are on top of it, that intergrity lost is worth the cause. Hock Siew, should had been smarter, so are others, I should had been their female advisor then, perhap then, they would not had suffered so badly.
On the other hand, I dun really blame them for holding on their intergrity for the sake of being bravery for nothing. Why? Because, Communism at that time, incalcated trustworthiness, heroicism, uphold of intergrity and Bravery. An exact opposite of the British(west) educated/trained people like LKY who are trained in skrewness and yet with the ability to tapped on communist weak point.
My taiwan former president, Chiang Kai Shek was a direct opposite of what had happen in Singapore, he was too naive and believed his advisors too much. And Mao, the shrew and cunning communist, paved all the way to chase him out of mainland china. If both all the Lims politicians of that time in singapore is like Mao, who incalcated all these stupid communism philosophies of righteous and uphold intergrity but never practice himself, today, my Uncle Atobe might be a Prime Minister of Singapore, Hock Siew might be the MM and so on. 4sg will still remain to clean the parliament house. And me, Angel would had more business. UNDERSTAND!!!
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Originally posted by 4sg:
In the video clip, Lim Hock Siew claimed that the merger with Malaysia was an attempt to destroy the Opposition. I've heard/read this many times.
This is something I don't understand. I mean how can it be so? With the ISA, all the govt needed to do was to invoke the act. No need to beat around the bush, right?Something I don't comprehen because I dont belong to that generation and maybe someone can explain it better?
This part of the speech seems to be an error in the first public speech ever made by the venerable 80 year old Dr Lim Hock Siew since his release from ISA detention - and remained silent from the public.I believe he had intended to mean "the process leading to the Referendum" towards merger with Malaysia was designed to destroy the Opposition Parties, and not the merger itself.
The process leading to the Referendum was a torturous route taken with negotiations bilaterally and multi-laterally between so many players including the British Colonial Government, the Malayan Prime Minister and his Cabinet, LKY and his comrades in the separated PAP that he controlled, Dr Lee Siew Choh and his team of ex-PAP members that formed the Barisan Sosialis - which included Lim Chin Siong, Dr Lim Hock Siew, Chia Thye Poh as well as the other ISA detainees.
Each group of players had their own views and it was near impossible to come to any agreement when Dr Lee Siew Choh refused the terms of merger with Malaysia that left so many issues unclear, and which he and his colleagues felt that Singapore was placed at a disadvantage.
To overcome the road block in negotiations, and to pre-empt the charisma of Lim Chin Siong to begin public actions to torpedo the outcome of a false Referendum, it left LKY with a final plan to play on Tunku's fear of an independent Singapore turning Communist - and "recruited" the Tunku to convince the Colonial Government to support the plan to activate Operation Cold Store.
If one is to study the words of the Referendum towards Merger with Malaysia - it is clear that the Referendum is a false referendum that leaves no option for anyone to vote against merger.
‘Singapore National Referendum of 1962’ (*1) had only the following three options:-
- Option A: All Singapore citizens would automatically become citizens of Malaysia, and Singapore would retain a degree of autonomy and state power, such as over labour and education. Singapore would also get to keep its language policies, such as to retain using all four major languages, English, Mandarin, Malay and Tamil.
- Option B: Singapore would become a federal state like that of the other eleven states, with no more autonomy than the other states would, thus ceding control over issues such as labour and education policies to the federal government in Kuala Lumpur. This also meant that there would be less multilingualism - only English and Malay would be used for official purposes, and possibly education. Only those born in Singapore or descended from the Singapore-born would become citizens of Malaysia. There would also be proportionate representation in Parliament from Singapore.
- Option C: Singapore would enter on terms no less favourable than the Borneo territories, Sabah and Sarawak, both whom were also discussing merger with Malaysia. This was to ensure that Malaysia would not discriminate along racial lines, as that would mean discriminating against Sabah and Sarawak, which were predominantly Bumiputra as well.
The process of Referendum was just another political act when the dishonest intent of the Referendum can be seen in the manner that it was designed.
It was part of a larger step-by-step structured plan put into action that bought time for all parties interested in preventing those Singaporean Nationalists who had Socialists leanings but not ncessarilty to be Communist.
Left wing or Right Wing, Socialist or Capitalists, Liberal or Conservative - whatever the shades of politics - the Singaporeans who lived during that period after WW2 were mostly anti-colonialists, and were all Nationalists at heart.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Oops, got the wrong guy,
, sorry sorry. Alway think of Lim Yew Hock, i think he is more famous than Lim Hock Siew, name sound like the same, are they related??Anyway, either Yew Hock or Hock Siew or Pig Hock, I am going to say once again, if you are not ruthless, cunning, smart and have a good foresight of things to come, you better dun join politics, I think all these peoples do not have that capability. Sad, but it is true. They will be better off if they had either joined LKY in PAP or be some lecturers or businessmen and live happily everafter with 3 to 4 wifeys.
Just a question for my Uncle Flash Atobe, how much does per kg of intergrity worth? If you tell me that intergrity is intangible, I said it is worth nothing. In many a times, in history of kingdoms and dynasties, you had read about princes and ministers kowtow to it master (king or emperor) with an ulterior motives, they dun losing all their intergrity for the objective of success when time for coup de grace arrive. And when you are on top of it, that intergrity lost is worth the cause. Hock Siew, should had been smarter, so are others, I should had been their female advisor then, perhap then, they would not had suffered so badly.
On the other hand, I dun really blame them for holding on their intergrity for the sake of being bravery for nothing. Why? Because, Communism at that time, incalcated trustworthiness, heroicism, uphold of intergrity and Bravery. An exact opposite of the British(west) educated/trained people like LKY who are trained in skrewness and yet with the ability to tapped on communist weak point.
My taiwan former president, Chiang Kai Shek was a direct opposite of what had happen in Singapore, he was too naive and believed his advisors too much. And Mao, the shrew and cunning communist, paved all the way to chase him out of mainland china. If both all the Lims politicians of that time in singapore is like Mao, who incalcated all these stupid communism philosophies of righteous and uphold intergrity but never practice himself, today, my Uncle Atobe might be a Prime Minister of Singapore, Hock Siew might be the MM and so on. 4sg will still remain to clean the parliament house. And me, Angel would had more business. UNDERSTAND!!!
That piece of commie white washing history revisionist traitorous
shit becomes PM of my homeland?!!! NEVER!!!!
.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Oops, got the wrong guy,
, sorry sorry. Alway think of Lim Yew Hock, i think he is more famous than Lim Hock Siew, name sound like the same, are they related??Anyway, either Yew Hock or Hock Siew or Pig Hock, I am going to say once again, if you are not ruthless, cunning, smart and have a good foresight of things to come, you better dun join politics, I think all these peoples do not have that capability. Sad, but it is true. They will be better off if they had either joined LKY in PAP or be some lecturers or businessmen and live happily everafter with 3 to 4 wifeys.
Just a question for my Uncle Flash Atobe, how much does per kg of intergrity worth? If you tell me that intergrity is intangible, I said it is worth nothing. In many a times, in history of kingdoms and dynasties, you had read about princes and ministers kowtow to it master (king or emperor) with an ulterior motives, they dun losing all their intergrity for the objective of success when time for coup de grace arrive. And when you are on top of it, that intergrity lost is worth the cause. Hock Siew, should had been smarter, so are others, I should had been their female advisor then, perhap then, they would not had suffered so badly.
On the other hand, I dun really blame them for holding on their intergrity for the sake of being bravery for nothing. Why? Because, Communism at that time, incalcated trustworthiness, heroicism, uphold of intergrity and Bravery. An exact opposite of the British(west) educated/trained people like LKY who are trained in skrewness and yet with the ability to tapped on communist weak point.
My taiwan former president, Chiang Kai Shek was a direct opposite of what had happen in Singapore, he was too naive and believed his advisors too much. And Mao, the shrew and cunning communist, paved all the way to chase him out of mainland china. If both all the Lims politicians of that time in singapore is like Mao, who incalcated all these stupid communism philosophies of righteous and uphold intergrity but never practice himself, today, my Uncle Atobe might be a Prime Minister of Singapore, Hock Siew might be the MM and so on. 4sg will still remain to clean the parliament house. And me, Angel would had more business. UNDERSTAND!!!
These are piece of shit from an ignorant fool like you. As I said, don't come here and give us your nonsense. I have been extending you my kindness and patience so far.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
That piece of commie white washing history revisionist traitorous
shit becomes PM of my homeland?!!! NEVER!!!!
Who?
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Oops, got the wrong guy,
, sorry sorry. Alway think of Lim Yew Hock, i think he is more famous than Lim Hock Siew, name sound like the same, are they related??Anyway, either Yew Hock or Hock Siew or Pig Hock, I am going to say once again, if you are not ruthless, cunning, smart and have a good foresight of things to come, you better dun join politics, I think all these peoples do not have that capability. Sad, but it is true. They will be better off if they had either joined LKY in PAP or be some lecturers or businessmen and live happily everafter with 3 to 4 wifeys.
Just a question for my Uncle Flash Atobe, how much does per kg of intergrity worth? If you tell me that intergrity is intangible, I said it is worth nothing. In many a times, in history of kingdoms and dynasties, you had read about princes and ministers kowtow to it master (king or emperor) with an ulterior motives, they dun losing all their intergrity for the objective of success when time for coup de grace arrive. And when you are on top of it, that intergrity lost is worth the cause. Hock Siew, should had been smarter, so are others, I should had been their female advisor then, perhap then, they would not had suffered so badly.
On the other hand, I dun really blame them for holding on their intergrity for the sake of being bravery for nothing. Why? Because, Communism at that time, incalcated trustworthiness, heroicism, uphold of intergrity and Bravery. An exact opposite of the British(west) educated/trained people like LKY who are trained in skrewness and yet with the ability to tapped on communist weak point.
My taiwan former president, Chiang Kai Shek was a direct opposite of what had happen in Singapore, he was too naive and believed his advisors too much. And Mao, the shrew and cunning communist, paved all the way to chase him out of mainland china. If both all the Lims politicians of that time in singapore is like Mao, who incalcated all these stupid communism philosophies of righteous and uphold intergrity but never practice himself, today, my Uncle Atobe might be a Prime Minister of Singapore, Hock Siew might be the MM and so on. 4sg will still remain to clean the parliament house. And me, Angel would had more business. UNDERSTAND!!!
Only the dumbness of a Taiwanese "hum" will want to determine the weight of "integrity" - as it has nothing of any worth to be mentioned about its own integrity.
What if the integrity weights only 0.5 grams - will the Taiwanese "hum" trample on it ?
It will not be a surprise if the Taiwanese "hum" will sell its "hum" for 0.5 grams of gold - as its integrity means littel to the "hum" ?
The answer is obvious considering the lack of integrity in the "hum" to even appreciate what integrity is all about.
Your understanding of the history is as bad as your understanding of the politics of Singapore.
Was Chiang Kai Shek naive to listen to his advisors, or was he simply incompetent to lead those who had believed in him, and with him having no ability to control his ego to defeat Mao - even when Mao was pressed to make the Long March into near oblivion ?
You have no business to associate any of the Singaporean loyalists to be Communist when you have no knowledge of the politics of Singapore during the 1950s, and depend only on the filth that was fed into your "hum" brain.
Mao succeeded as he was able to seize the upper hand in exploiting Chiang's failure to manage his own opportunities by attacking his own corrupted subordinate generals that abuse China's citizens through the barrel of the gun.
Singapore politicians of the 1950s were all similar in spirit as Sun Yat Sen efforts to modernise China and take it away from the clutches of the corrupt Empress that destroyed China single-handedly.
Singapore will similarly be destroyed by LKY's skewed vision and political ambitions that project only the interest of the PAP first and Singaporeans second.
A Taiwanese "hum" will be the cause of internal strife with its continued idiocy to distort the political history as designed by the PAP.
Do we need a Taiwanese "hum" to teach Singaporeans our history when its own knowledg of Taiwanese history is as bad if not worst ?
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Left wing or Right Wing, Socialist or Capitalists, Liberal or Conservative - whatever the shades of politics - the Singaporeans who lived during that period after WW2 were mostly anti-colonialists, and were all Nationalists at heart.
There were still some who prefered british rule. Those were the ones who had gained wealth and power under the colonial system and feared a change of rule would weaken their power.
For example the progressive party represented this group:
The Progressive Party was heavily backed and made up of English-speaking upper class professionals. Its campaign ideology was to advocate progressive and gradual reforms, rather than sudden, quick, radical ones, which fell in line with British policy at the time, to slowly let Singapore gain full self-government. This approach was criticised vehemently by David Saul Marshall,leader of the Labour Front who instead wanted rapid reform. The locals (especially the Chinese), and the communists also blasted the Progressive Party, claiming that they are Hanjian, or traitors in chinese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_(Singapore)
And who was involved with this reactionary party?
It is our old friend, Harry Lee.
After the war he was educated in England as a lawyer and on his return to Singapore joined the pro-British Progressive Party, for which he acted as an election agent in the 1951 elections...
http://hellosingapore.info/lee-kuan-yew/
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stupidity and ignorance knows no limits...
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
That piece of commie white washing history revisionist traitorous
shit becomes PM of my homeland?!!! NEVER!!!!
.
History can be change in a matter of second, we as citizens of singapore should create a better environment and future for Singapore next and follow up of our generation, that is our duty, we cannot go back and mingle with all those political faults and bring it to today just to confuse our youngs mind. That is selfish in every sense. If anyone have the guts, the capability to move the masses and prove to be a good leader, pen your name down, join the politic and we will elect you. But if you are going to keep mentioning about old past, there is nothing we can do but just sympathise it.LKY is not worrying that his past actions, right or wrong, will not make his downfall, if so, he will not had released people like Lim. He knows it is a different ball game now, by telling the youngs not to expect a govt change already tell you a story of his stand in this coming election.