Malaysia to play the "water" card against Singapore soon?
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Water
Dr. Mahathir Mohamad
1. Pahang will soon be selling water to Selangor/KL. I don't think Pahang would be happy to receive 3 sen per thousand gallons.
2. Melaka has been paying Johore 30 sen per thousand gallons and is still doing so and will continue to do so I suppose. Would Johore be asking for more than 30 sen in the future? God knows.
3. In 2011 the first agreement with Singapore to sell 350 million gallons of raw water daily at 3 sen per thousand gallons will end. What would we do then? I suspect despite Singapore's famous Newater, it would still need the 350 million gallons daily.
4. The other treaty would end by 2060 in which the price is also 3 sen per thousand gallons. But without the 350 million gallons daily according to the first treaty, Singapore's rapidly increasing population of new immigrants would not have enough water.
5. So, the amount supplied according to the first treaty would be even more crucial despite Newater and desalination.
6. The Government of Tun Abdullah had very cleverly decided not to raise any of the issues outstanding with Singapore after the bridges were jettisoned. I suppose this charitable act would help cement friendship with that city-state with a per capita income of US$36,000 (Malaysia's per capita incidentally is US$7,000, i.e one-fifth of Singapore).
7. 2011 is not too far away. Have we thought about extending the 2011 treaty or not extending it or negotiating a new water supply agreement? Are we going to be charitable again and sell raw water at 3 sen per thousand gallons to our rich neighbour?
8. Being charitable and not raising prickly issues is a good way to make friends. But what is the cost to the people of Malaysia.
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Not to worry, we are already self sufficient in water especially "newater". With a population of nearly 5 million, there are alot of waste water from our sewerage to turn it into "newater". We have also converted the seawater at Marina Barrage into fresh water reservoir. Just like sand, we used to get from My, Indon, then Vietnam and now from Cambodia. Just think out of the box.
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both M&M and S&M would die by 2011 - both side citizen will celebrate and rejoyce. Water will be the last thing they want to argue about.
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Originally posted by storywolf:
both M&M and S&M would die by 2011 - both side citizen will celebrate and rejoyce. Water will be the last thing they want to argue about.
For utterly different reasons. -
irregardlessly, I do admire that this fella choose to reveal this card, given its importance. Unless we can make new-water or etc, to be cheaper/easier than what we get up north, we are in need of this. No denial.
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with the changing weather, we may have flood at one moment, draught at other moment. The nature is becoming less dependable for clean water supplies.
if not for Malaysia, Singapore would not have developed so much into having clean water. Other countries without neighbor like malaysia are also having clean water supply problem. So the technologies we are developing will help others as well as ourselves. who knows, there may be time in the near future that Singapore would have to supply water to johore. yes, think out of the box.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
with the changing weather, we may have flood at one moment, draught at other moment. The nature is becoming less dependable for clean water supplies.
if not for Malaysia, Singapore would not have developed so much into having clean water. Other countries without neighbor like malaysia are also having clean water supply problem. So the technologies we are developing will help others as well as ourselves. who knows, there may be time in the near future that Singapore would have to supply water to johore. yes, think out of the box.
well, if I am not wrong, we are buying @ 3 sen, the untreated water, treat it and sell back to Johor. So we are "supplying" water back.
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Originally posted by iceFatboy:
well, if I am not wrong, we are buying @ 3 sen, the untreated water, treat it and sell back to Johor. So we are "supplying" water back.
yup..
they don't like it..
but we've turned it from unuseable water into useable water and flogging it back to them.. they don't like it because there is a premium paid for the treated water...
but hey.. it's value added.. you don't kpkb to saying the computer chip-makers are "profiteering" because they turned sand into silicon chips...
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Dr M still lives in his own past and still harboours the thought of using water to threaten Singapore.
Singapore is now self-sufficient in water supply with the new water technologies ie we can produce as much water as we need now and in future and of course it costs more than 3 sen per galloon to produce but it is very affordable to Singapore and it is only a small price to pay so that Singapore is no longer under Malaysia's threat to cut off Singapore water supply.
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Originally posted by sgdiehard:
we may have flood at one moment, draught at other moment.
You can't drink beer when it floods? I never knew that.
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Originally posted by webben:
You can't drink beer when it floods? I never knew that.
hehe...its drought, draught is for any moment, -
pl read my old threads.
Our daily potable water selling do not increase very fast.
SG , GCT said, will not need to renew 2011 expired agrement. Full stop,
Bye Bye Malaysia water by 2011--Part 2
Population in 2008 is 400,000 more than 2002,
but sale of potable water is still less than 2002!!
Pl read
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/200078
for more info.
Bye bye MY water by 2011
year....................2002......03.........04.......05......06...07
Water treated..1,315...1,360....1,369.....1352...1399...1469( m3 in 1000/day)
Sale of potable...1,259...1,224...1,203....1206...1230...1248(m3..in 1000/day)
water
Domestic...............687......690......686.....694..702...724( m3 in 1000/day)
Non--domestic.......572......534......517.....512...508...524( m3 in 1000/day)
population(m)......4.18.....4.11.....4.17....4.27...4.40...4.59#
sale of potable water (domestci & non--domestic)in liters/per capita/day
...........................302(02)...............................275(06)..272(07)Domestic water consumption.....................160.... 158... 157
per capita/litres/day (only 2005--2007 shown)$m/GDP/day........432......444.......504.....545.....595....666 #
sale of domestic & non--domestic potable water m3/GDP $ 1m at current market price/day........2914....2757......2387....2212...2067...1874
Sale of NEWater ....m3 in 1000/day............73.....81...134
Sale of Industrial water...m3 in 1000/day....107.....112..80
Unaccounted for water (%)..........................5.0.....4.5...4.4
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pl note selling of water per $1 million GDP drops 36 % from 2002 to 2007!!
sale of domestic & non--domestic potable water m3/GDP $ 1m at current market price/day........2914....2757......2387....2212...2067...1874
SG really go for high value GDP!
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May I suggest my learned frens here read some old threads before post.
Tx for info.
Dr M become a has been.
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Think about it this way... 3 sen per 1000 gallon for raw water that they had no use for anyway.
Its not like raw water is some kinda economic resource to Malaysia. What were they going to do with it anyway? The water would probably just sit there... and not generate any kind of economic benefits. They don't have to do anything, we build the pipelines to bring the water in...
Think about it this way... it just so happens that more water happens to fall down from the sky and land there. We are just asking to have something of which they have plenty and is of no economic value to them, and paying them a token price for it. What is wrong with that? Why should we pay anything more?
Processed and potable water is not cheap. It actually cost money to convert something that fell from the sky which they gracious sell to us at 3cts per 1000 gal, into something that is drinkable and usable by industry. Thus, raw water has been transformed into something of economic value. So why can't we charge them for it? We *bought* the water from them, and we need water because we have not much of it, and potable water is actually an economic resource, why shouldn't we charge them for it? They complain its too much... how much is too much? We can charge them lower and they can ALWAYS complain its too much when they compare it to 3 cts for useless raw water.
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I am sad there are still too many sg citixens, incl some learned one,
think that SG is heavily dependent on MY water.
I think currently is less than 30 %, as a gesture!!
In fact , we can get all the water in--house!
u read trace the water data here
http://app.mewr.gov.sg/web/Contents/Contents.aspx?Id=80
2008, sale of potable water 1,262,000 m3 per day!THis is on par with 2002,
thanks to NEWater and desalination water.
May i recap the water policy when NEWater was rolled out.
----By 2011,15 % of water will be supplied by NEWater.This was increased to
30% by 2011!
----10 % of demand is met by desalination. The plant is sold to city spring REIT.
---Before the operation of Marina Reservoir, half of SG land is used as water catchment area. This result in local catchment can provide 50% of water demand.
This include some HDB estates.
After the Marina Reservoir was put in op few months ago, catchment increase to two third of sg land. So, i think the local catchment will provide at least two third of water demand. It may take 2 years to dilute the salt in Marina Reservoir.The most densely populated of SG,including CBD, fall into the new water catchment. Urban catchment is not new. But Sg scale is very huge.
Beige in color is current water catchment area.Green is water
catchment area of proposed Reservoirs of Marina,Sg Puggol ,
Sg Serangoon and and Lower Seletar.All the new and extended
reservoirs will be ready by 2012http://www.sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/200078
Desalination plant
The city spring REIT plant--built by Hyflux--cost abt S$200 m and abt 6 ha to provide
10 % of SG daily need, capacity 135,000 m3 per day.
$$ is not a problem.Land--sg have new reclamation land of abt 2,000 ha in Tuas.
So, in overnight, all water demand can be met by desalination!!
NEWater is mainly for factory and office
Currently, only 1 % of potable come from NEWater,after it mix with traditional source of water in reservoir for sun bath! It will increase to 2.5 % within few years.
In USA Cali. ,they return the treated water to underground to mix with underground water.SG is better with additional sun bath!
SG factory need highh volume of pure clean water for manufacturing of wafer chips, petroleum products, cleaning etc.
Office aldo need. In new Marina South new CBD, all new office bhilding are mandatory
to be provided with chilled water for air cond purposes.
Pl read
District Cooling and
Common Services Tunnel
MY imported water is an option, not a must
before NEWater and desalination, 50 % of water come from local catchment.
This will increase to abt 65%.
NEWater replace .........30%
desalination..................10%
total............................105%!!
dunt forget we have many in house recycle water.
eg power generators and rubbish disposal plant now can also generate water and steam with heat during the process. They call tri generation...
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re opening post--
how much water the first treaty provide daily?
There is no point to discuss if we have not get the figures right.
I am sad there are still too many sg citixens, incl some learned one,
think that SG is heavily dependent on MY water.
I think currently is less than 30 %, as a gesture!!
In fact , we can get all the water in--house!
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Think about it this way... 3 sen per 1000 gallon for raw water that they had no use for anyway.
Its not like raw water is some kinda economic resource to Malaysia. What were they going to do with it anyway? The water would probably just sit there... and not generate any kind of economic benefits. They don't have to do anything, we build the pipelines to bring the water in...
Think about it this way... it just so happens that more water happens to fall down from the sky and land there. We are just asking to have something of which they have plenty and is of no economic value to them, and paying them a token price for it. What is wrong with that? Why should we pay anything more?
Processed and potable water is not cheap. It actually cost money to convert something that fell from the sky which they gracious sell to us at 3cts per 1000 gal, into something that is drinkable and usable by industry. Thus, raw water has been transformed into something of economic value. So why can't we charge them for it? We *bought* the water from them, and we need water because we have not much of it, and potable water is actually an economic resource, why shouldn't we charge them for it? They complain its too much... how much is too much? We can charge them lower and they can ALWAYS complain its too much when they compare it to 3 cts for useless raw water.
I agree with you on this, and would like to add further.
The water may belong to the Malaysians, but the water treatment facillities and management are paid by Singaporean funds. The processed water is not only used by Singaporeans, it is also used by the people of Johor.
What the racist pig brained old 'has been' is calling for is an increase in the prices. Justifiable of course, and we Singaporeans can afford it, no prob, afterall we dont really need it anymore, for by 2011, we will be at least 80% self sufficient.
But I am sure the Johor people are going to scream bloody murder, for it will mean an increase in the prices we sell the water back to them. Costs are and had always been passed on to the consumers.
By all means, call for a raise, the way he raised petrol prices, which they own and yet sold high to its citizens unconscienciably, and see how the Johor citizens will react.
We dont even need to lift a finger, just sit back, relax and watch that pig brained mad hatter be torn further into pieces figuratively by his own people, whatever thats left of his dignity if it ever exist in the first place. Nationalism will only go as far as the length of one's stomach or his loved one's.
Msia can always buy over our water treatment facillities. If they can build white elephants such as the petronas towers, they can jolly well afford our price. And it will be staggering so - another 50 years of revenue lost calculated in, adjusted with annual inflation rate. Our treasury will overflow and can even build more desalination plants and supply water to SEAsia region.
Msia can also seize the facillities. Go ahead, make my day. The Johor folks feeling the recession pinch, sick of paying more in a land of resources, will welcome us with open arms.
Had been waiting for it. Better we resolve it now this generation than to burden the next.Already used to his threats and sabre rattling. He owes me and my brothers-in-arms lost youth in training and preparing to counter his delusions of granduer habitually.
Glory to the liberation of Singaporeans and Johor people, and Honour intact to our republic for we WILL NOT BE BULLIED!
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Take note that we are also importing water in the form of fruits, rice, wheat and vegetables.
Factor these in we're nowhere near self sufficient.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
Glory to the liberation of Singaporeans and Johor people, and Honour intact to our republic for we WILL NOT BE BULLIED!
Now Singapore flooded with foreign aliens, talk so much cock.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Take note that we are also importing water in the form of fruits, rice, wheat and vegetables.
Factor these in we're nowhere near self sufficient.
Factor in the fact we are an entreport and have other sources as well.
Factor in also trade goes both way - essentials are not charity goods given to us but paid at market rates. It will hurt them as much as it will hurt us with a market gone. Their citizens will go wild.
We can live without food, or just on potato as the scots did, but we cannot live without water. Fortunately, we had planned ahead and by 2011, we will only need 20% of msia water base on 4-6% growth. When push come to shove, there will be means to make up for the 20% shortfall. Invention and improvisation had always been the mother of necessity.
No fear, bro
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
I agree with you on this, and would like to add further.
The water may belong to the Malaysians, but the water treatment facillities and management are paid by Singaporean funds. The processed water is not only used by Singaporeans, it is also used by the people of Johor.
What the racist pig brained old 'has been' is calling for is an increase in the prices. Justifiable of course, and we Singaporeans can afford it, no prob, afterall we dont really need it anymore, for by 2011, we will be at least 80% self sufficient.
But I am sure the Johor people are going to scream bloody murder, for it will mean an increase in the prices we sell the water back to them. Costs are and had always been passed on to the consumers.
By all means, call for a raise, the way he raised petrol prices, which they own and yet sold high to its citizens unconscienciably, and see how the Johor citizens will react.
We dont even need to lift a finger, just sit back, relax and watch that pig brained mad hatter be torn further into pieces figuratively by his own people, whatever thats left of his dignity if it ever exist in the first place. Nationalism will only go as far as the length of one's stomach or his loved one's.
Msia can always buy over our water treatment facillities. If they can build white elephants such as the petronas towers, they can jolly well afford our price. And it will be staggering so - another 50 years of revenue lost calculated in, adjusted with annual inflation rate. Our treasury will overflow and can even build more desalination plants and supply water to SEAsia region.
Msia can also seize the facillities. Go ahead, make my day. The Johor folks feeling the recession pinch, sick of paying more in a land of resources, will welcome us with open arms.
Had been waiting for it. Better we resolve it now this generation than to burden the next.Already used to his threats and sabre rattling. He owes me and my brothers-in-arms lost youth in training and preparing to counter his delusions of granduer habitually.
Glory to the liberation of Singaporeans and Johor people, and Honour intact to our republic for we WILL NOT BE BULLIED!
Before the X-rated Fraud gets all fogged up with its hot gas, it should look into the facts before shooting off at a tangent in some jingoistic nationalistic fervor.
What is the basis for the fraudulent claim in the statement made that - "we dont really need it anymore, for by 2011, we will be at least 80% self sufficient." ?
‘In a June 23, 2009 – CIRCLE OF BLUE WATERNEWS’ (*2) - the following was reported as part of the opening of the new Water Barrage:-
"A fifth reclamation plant opened today during International Water Week, an annual conference that takes place in Singapore.
Designed to produce NEWater — Singapore’s own brand of reclaimed water — the facility will be able to recycle up to 176 million gallons a day.
NEWater, which is essentially purified waste water, is expected to supply 30 percent of Singapore’s needs by next year."
Even as Singapore progress, should we allow the cockeyed jingoistic nationalism to taunt others into actions against Singapore ?
It clearly show the hot gas that a X-rated Fraud need in order to exist with some relevance.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Take note that we are also importing water in the form of fruits, rice, wheat and vegetables.
Factor these in we're nowhere near self sufficient.
A source that we would be 80% self sufficient in water.
http://www.water-technology.net/features/feature2026/
Sigh...Seems like dumbasses abound tonight. Or are the dumbasses actually one person using different nicks? Maybe I should just continue to ignore them, for no sane persons would argue with fools, more so with self admitted piece of shit like the one above this post.
Their stupidity and foolishness knows no bounds, match only by their selfish desire to subvert others to their insane as well as inept causes by misery, pain and hatred for our society.
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Originally posted by xtreyier:
A source that we would be 80% self sufficient in water.
http://www.water-technology.net/features/feature2026/
Sigh...Seems like dumbasses abound tonight. Or are the dumbasses actually one person using different nicks? Maybe I should just continue to ignore them, for no sane persons would argue with fools, more so with self admitted piece of shit like the one above this post.
Their stupidity and foolishness knows no bounds, match only by their selfish desire to subvert others to their insane as well as inept causes by misery, pain and hatred for our society.
As usual in its own self-indulgent stupidity in demanding the spotlight for its grand standing addiction to further charged its hot gassed performance, the X-rated Fraud never fail to grasp the slimmest thread to pursue the limelight.
This perhaps provides the clearest example of the benefits of Singapore's drive towards self sufficiency – possibly 80% by 2011 – and with the very real prospect of entirely sustainable, self-contained water management by 2061, the goal appears a perfectly achievable one.
In the usual ways of a pseudo-intellect with its own characteristic false values that will encourage Singaporeans to spend our way out of the present economic crisis - and NOT to HOARD our monies - as the FORECAST is for a 3% GDP Growth for next year.
For that reason, alone Singapore can throw caution to the wind, spend, spend and spend - not to hoard.
For that reason that Singapore can achieve self-sufficiencty in our own water supply -possibly 80% by 2011 - we can thumb our nose at the Malaysians and tell them all co-operation is off the table.
Yes, we can depend on the X-rated Fraud to count on next years 3% GDP growth to be a certainty, when the caveat is not as loudly publicised.
If Singapore can reach water self-sufficiency of 80% by 2011 - was there any need to have the water agreement with Malaysia to be valid till 2061 ?
Was there a self-doubt that existed that the "Dog does not know what its Tail is thinking" ?
It is about time that the X-rated Fraud start behaving like a real Dog and take control of its Tail, and not allow the damn "Tail to wag the Dog".
Obviously, no one will expect the stoopidity of the X-rated Fraud with a pseudo-intellect to know how to be a truly good dog and control its tail to give the right signal to the Master.