Originally posted by novelltie:
i agree with xtreyier... if i may be neutral; andrew, i know you have deep hatred for the PAP but i feel you can't always come into any thread and try to distract it from the initial topic. i know PAP sucks and take millions but lose billions but here we have someone who may, i stress again, who may have good intentions on trying to oust the government and return power to the citizens but and i stress again but could damage our economy substantially if USA do indeed put in place a trade embargo on us.now; at this moment, will we even think of supporting this leader of yours if 30% of Singaporeans would to either lose their jobs or have a pay cut?
How did you become so gulible that the "US will put in place a trade embargo on us" ?
How did you come to your conclusion when the Temasek Review article was titled as - ‘Chee Soon Juan to go on U.S. talk shows asking Obama to address human rights abuse in Singapore’ (*1) - and which the TS had deliberately skewed it by either its poor reading abilities, or deliberately done to suit its own political agenda ?
Which part of the original Temasek Review title - or even any of the paragraphs of its printed contents - had given you the idea that CSJ had called for the USA to create a trade embargo on Singapore ?
Are you intent to perpetuate the lie that the X-rated pseudo-intellect has so fraudulent pursued to propagate the dishonesty even further ?
Originally posted by xtreyier:Who's the idiot? I will leave it to the readers to decide.
Give you clue, you poor fella:- Where does the pay for elected officials and public admistrators come from, and did they hide their pay? If so, do you have any evidence of any 'additional' money they took, than those that had already long been publish in the papers?
Only a dumb X-rated Fraud with a proven pseudo-intellect will give a dumb clue that is itself void of any help except for the hot gas that a fraud will expertly create.
Does a X-rated Fraud need to hide its fraudulent ways when it continue to do its business in total oblivion to all the exposed fraudulent statements and acts of deceit, and knowing that all the exposes will not affect its position except for its self-esteem ?
With the typical shameless attitude of a X-rated Fraudulent Rat, it is obvious that it is intent on immunising itself to all the exposes by simply moving on to avoid digging a deeper grave to bury its own relevance in this Forum.
With its thickened skin, does it take any more efforts to also raid the bank of this Forum when it has been given the total trust by the Forum Owner ?
Afterall, for a X-rated Fraud who will cheat the Government of a 50 cents coupon and will only admit when caught - how much more honor is there left in a X-rated Fraud to be able to stand up to scrutiny to its character ?
Originally posted by novelltie:
i agree with xtreyier... if i may be neutral; andrew, i know you have deep hatred for the PAP but i feel you can't always come into any thread and try to distract it from the initial topic. i know PAP sucks and take millions but lose billions but here we have someone who may, i stress again, who may have good intentions on trying to oust the government and return power to the citizens but and i stress again but could damage our economy substantially if USA do indeed put in place a trade embargo on us.now; at this moment, will we even think of supporting this leader of yours if 30% of Singaporeans would to either lose their jobs or have a pay cut?
What "distract it from the initial topic"? I am going back to the original cause of people's need to struggle against the regime. It is run by a cursed despot with a zombie wife, public money grabbing and losing billions of the reserves to foreigners and persecuting opposition.
Without the dishonorable and despicable acts of the cursed despot with a zombie wife, there is no need to struggle against him and his running dogs.
Originally posted by angel7030:Obama to MM: MM Lee, i heard from my advisor that there is sg guy named Chee Soon ...something... saying that you are oppressive.
MM to Obama: Oh! Mr Obama, I beg your pardon, your advisor had got it all wrong, if I might correct it, he may referring to our famous Chee Cheong Fun and Soon Kueh dishes, if u like, I am honor to get it for you immediately. And certainly I do not oppress sg guy selling these signature dishes of Singapore, we can also open a trade on these food if you think it suit the American taste. Chef!!!
Chef: Yes, Minister.
MM: Get me a chee cheong fun and soon kueh for ah ma, and for me, I will take ang ku kueh and obama burger.
You Boomz.....lah....
I think it still take a while for Singaporean to get used with the culture of speaking out against government policies....because it is so rarely spoke off in public or publised in public. But of course it is nature of politics that only the negative side of opposition are showned on paper.
I can understand the audienceship CSJ needs to capture to draw attention from international NGO support given that there are limited support from within.
But i don't think it is a threat to any trade policies as in politics there are political rhetoric vs policies making. So i would say lets not over react.
Nevertheless at times CSJ need to crop its message by taken Singaporean into consideration after all he needs to win Votes. I sometime wonder if the opposition ever done research on what voters want to hear from the opposition?
Originally posted by Atobe:
Where were you when recession hit Singapore in 1987-88, and again in 1997 ?Studying
In response to the 1987 recession, Dr Chee Soon Juan had written a book "Dare to Change" in 1994 - in which he had already advocated that Singapore has to wean itself from MNCs that are dependent on cheap labor and for Singapore to create an environment that will allow our own entrepreneurs to grow.In his 1994 book, he had also offered alternative ideas for changes to our education system that will allow our children to be nurtured into Thinkers and Problem Solvers and not simply rote learners regurgitating text books facts.
The fact that an academician had popped into the political scene shocked LKY and his PAP, in the same manner when JBJ broke the duck's egg and got himself into Parliament during the 1981 election.
Lee Kuan Yew was said to be furious with the victory achieved by Joshua B. Jeyaratnam (*1) - can we expect anything less from LKY in reaction for the sudden appearance of CSJ in the 1992, when he had just gotten rid of JBJ through several fixes designed to get JBJ out of Parliament ?
It is only obvious that CSJ had to be removed to prevent any threat to the planned succession of LHL sometime in the next ten years into the future.
Are you suggesting that First World Countries such as UK and Japan - with their mature political systems and practised politics - can be comparable to the politics practised in Singapore ?
First World countries politics cannot be compared to SG due to more sophiscated nature which i am unbale to regurgitate here, but i am doing a comparison on how opposition figures themselves do not voice out and damage their own country and cause hardship if economic blocs are put up just to spite the government, look at Myanmar. Please read what i write properly before blasting me
Do First World Democracies such as UK and Japan need to have any help to bring down any of their political leaders when their mature politicians from any parties keep the sanctity of their Constitution intact, and make no attempt to change the Constitution to protect or advance their own selfish political agenda ?Singapore may have all the facade and external trappings of a modern First World, which unfortunately is a cleverly disguised theatre that is deliberately designed by LKY to suit his style of autocratic-paternalistic politics and political governance.
i can see that from various newspaper articles, reviews, that is why we need more mature, credible opposition leaders. Dr Chee's antics does not go well with the local public, his academic findings should led to a brain battle with the ruling elite, throwing up ideas through dialogue rather than protesting and getting arrested which put the opposition parties in a bad light
All the verbiage about Asian Societies with Confucian values are no more then self-serving reasons to advance LKY's and his PAP political agendas.Singapore may have attained the semblance of a First World Country, but it is runned by Third World Politicians in Third World settings similar to that of Zimbabwe.
i replied, read in red
Originally posted by Arapahoe:I think it still take a while for Singaporean to get used with the culture of speaking out against government policies....because it is so rarely spoke off in public or publised in public. But of course it is nature of politics that only the negative side of opposition are showned on paper.
I can understand the audienceship CSJ needs to capture to draw attention from international NGO support given that there are limited support from within.
But i don't think it is a threat to any trade policies as in politics there are political rhetoric vs policies making. So i would say lets not over react.
Nevertheless at times CSJ need to crop its message by taken Singaporean into consideration after all he needs to win Votes. I sometime wonder if the opposition ever done research on what voters want to hear from the opposition?
Nevertheless at times CSJ need to crop its message by taken Singaporean into consideration after all he needs to win Votes. I sometime wonder if the opposition ever done research on what voters want to hear from the opposition?
The last statement is erroneous in assuming that CSJ is "the Opposition" personified - can one person's political strategy reflect the entire Opposition ?
Secondly, the manner in which LKY and the PAP had targetted CSJ - since his first political outing in 1992 - showed that politics have taken on an ugly personal level, in the same manner that the same treatment was meted to the late-JBJ.
Such treatment dished out in general doses are largely directed to those whom LKY feel most insecure with and see the most potent threat from.
Those personalities include Francis Seow (the previous Solicitor-General in SG), Tang Liang Hong, and those Ex-Barisan Sosialis members who were released but denied their political rights after being incarcerated even as they were part of the Founding Fathers of the PAP.
CSJ can no longer be in any position to win votes as long as he has a bankruptcy judgment that amount to millions to keep him out of politics.
He can only be a political activists to play on the conscience of LKY and the PAP leadership to remind them of their social and constitutional responsibilities towards Singaporeans.
Who else can play this role - when even the Law Society is not allowed to participate in their Constitutional sanctioned role to assist the Government in the legislative processes as part of the social responsibility of the Law Society ?
Be as it may, it is plain silly for the educated and younger Singapore Generations not to realise that without any willing voices to speak boldly and honestly on behalf of Singaporeans, the present route that LKY and the PAP will surely lead Singapore to a more unstable and uncertain future.
Thinkers like Catherine Lim also sees the same danger, and so do other silent ones that know better then to raise their profile.
Go ahead with your twisted words, distraction and bullshit to cover up what your outlaw leader had done.
His and your intentions had never been more clearer.
While our govt and citizens had been doing all they can to ensure there is food on our table, your outlaw leader goes to US to complain about his incaceration and presumed persecution where there was none, And complained about a rather vague and mystifying ' human right abuses' as if we are some backwater african corrupt failed state. Did he provide any evidences? None.
Only assumptions and allegations, lies and twisted half truths just as you are attempting to do so here. I wouldnt have bother with his and your long winded twiste crap but for the DAMMAGE to our reputation and efforts to get out of this crisis.
Continue on with your white washing, you self admitted piece of shit. Wack anyone who dares criticize you and your beloved outlaw. If we do not respond to your bully tactics, it is not that we fear a piece of shit like, but would rather let you dig yourself deeper and show what you really stand for and the kind of integrity you possess.
Rather, your fears are showing. Look at how you continued to respond to others with bullshit and twisted lies even when confronted with opinions and reality.
The rest of us have better things to do, to repair the dammage and lies you and your bunch of shit had done to us all, as if this crisis is not enough, now we have to expand our mind to do more.
You can do all the whitewashing you want, but factual truth of what happened and his intentions remains. He and what he had done will not be forgotten, regardless if he succeeds or failed
Originally posted by Acx1688:i replied, read in red
Originally posted by Atobe:
Where were you when recession hit Singapore in 1987-88, and again in 1997 ?Studying
How much do you know of what transpired during the 1987-88 and the 1997 crash ?
In response to the 1987 recession, Dr Chee Soon Juan had written a book "Dare to Change" in 1994 - in which he had already advocated that Singapore has to wean itself from MNCs that are dependent on cheap labor and for Singapore to create an environment that will allow our own entrepreneurs to grow.In his 1994 book, he had also offered alternative ideas for changes to our education system that will allow our children to be nurtured into Thinkers and Problem Solvers and not simply rote learners regurgitating text books facts.
The fact that an academician had popped into the political scene shocked LKY and his PAP, in the same manner when JBJ broke the duck's egg and got himself into Parliament during the 1981 election.
Lee Kuan Yew was said to be furious with the victory achieved by Joshua B. Jeyaratnam (*1) - can we expect anything less from LKY in reaction for the sudden appearance of CSJ in the 1992, when he had just gotten rid of JBJ through several fixes designed to get JBJ out of Parliament ?
It is only obvious that CSJ had to be removed to prevent any threat to the planned succession of LHL sometime in the next ten years into the future.
Are you suggesting that First World Countries such as UK and Japan - with their mature political systems and practised politics - can be comparable to the politics practised in Singapore ?
First World countries politics cannot be compared to SG due to more sophiscated nature which i am unbale to regurgitate here, but i am doing a comparison on how opposition figures themselves do not voice out and damage their own country and cause hardship if economic blocs are put up just to spite the government, look at Myanmar. Please read what i write properly before blasting me
If the politics of the First World countries cannot be compared to SG due to whatever reasons - is there any objectivity or purpose to compare the present political situation in SG which is so different from those First World countries that you wish to compare CSJ's action with ?The reason for breaking up your post into paragraph is to make careful and clear understanding of your writing instead of lumping your wonderful work into a general piece of unprocessed writing.
Do First World Democracies such as UK and Japan need to have any help to bring down any of their political leaders when their mature politicians from any parties keep the sanctity of their Constitution intact, and make no attempt to change the Constitution to protect or advance their own selfish political agenda ?
Singapore may have all the facade and external trappings of a modern First World, which unfortunately is a cleverly disguised theatre that is deliberately designed by LKY to suit his style of autocratic-paternalistic politics and political governance.
i can see that from various newspaper articles, reviews, that is why we need more mature, credible opposition leaders. Dr Chee's antics does not go well with the local public, his academic findings should led to a brain battle with the ruling elite, throwing up ideas through dialogue rather than protesting and getting arrested which put the opposition parties in a bad light
If you depend on the various newspaper articles and reviews - presumably all are Singaporean publications - you may as well subject yourself to the monotonous sound from a continuous syncophantic hammer drill held by the PAP control of SPH.Obviously, CSJ actions have been derided into antics by the publications that are controlled by PAP - do you expect anything complimentary to be said about you by someone who has negative feelings towards you that emanates from the core of their being ?
Are you certain that given the political evolution in Singapore as it is, there can be any possibility of LKY and his PAP to allow CSJ any space to throw up his ideas and have any debate ?
If there is such a desire, will there be a need to have such tight controls to prevent public support to any Alternative Political Parties.
All the verbiage about Asian Societies with Confucian values are no more then self-serving reasons to advance LKY's and his PAP political agendas.
Singapore may have attained the semblance of a First World Country, but it is runned by Third World Politicians in Third World settings similar to that of Zimbabwe.
i replied, read in red
My replies in Blue.
Originally posted by xtreyier:Go ahead with your twisted words, distraction and bullshit to cover up what your outlaw leader had done.
His and your intentions had never been more clearer.
While our govt and citizens had been doing all they can to ensure there is food on our table, your outlaw leader goes to US to complain about his incaceration and presumed persecution where there was none, And complained about a rather vague and mystifying ' human right abuses' as if we are some backwater african corrupt failed state. Did he provide any evidences? None.
Only assumptions and allegations, lies and twisted half truths just as you are attempting to do so here. I wouldnt have bother with his and your long winded twiste crap but for the DAMMAGE to our reputation and efforts to get out of this crisis.
Continue on with your white washing, you self admitted piece of shit. Wack anyone who dares criticize you and your beloved outlaw. If we do not respond to your bully tactics, it is not that we fear a piece of shit like, but would rather let you dig yourself deeper and show what you really stand for and the kind of integrity you possess.
The rest of us have better things to do, to repair the dammage and lies you and your bunch of shit had done to us all, as if this crisis is not enough, now we have to expand our mind to do more.
You can do all the whitewashing you want, but factual truth of what happened and his intentions remains. He and what he had done will not be forgotten, regardless if he succeeds or failed.
What else can be forthcoming from the bankrupt mind of a X-rated Fraud that cannot even see that the spotlight which you seek for your grandstanding performance has been turned on you - and still your ignorance has been so clear in your continued avoidance to engage on any issues that have exposed your pseudo-intellect ?
It is obvious that your position here is to provide the mindless syncophantic support for the PAP in the manner that LKY had feared in his youth, but which he had been so successful to harness the mindless and unthinking, poor educated Singaporeans like you.
How could supposedly educated Singaporeans become pseudo-intellect ?
Was it not a result of the years of education before the PAP decided in Year 2002 - to revamp the entire school syllabus to produce THINKING and PROBLEM SOLVING students ?
Obviously, you cannot be in the group that the PAP begin to nurture from Year 2002 ?
Sadly, the X-rated Fraud can only continue to be trashed and remained with its deafening silence, to be only a danger to itself when alone, and spread its genius in regurgitating ideas that it plagiarized from others.
"Let us get down to fundamentals. Is this an open, or is this a closed society? Is it a society where men can preach ideas - novel, unorthodox, heresies, to established churches and established governments - where there is a constant contest for men's hearts and minds on the basis of what is right, of what is just, of what is in the national interests, or is it a closed society where the mass media - the newspapaers, the journals, publications, TV, radio - either bound by sound or by sight, or both sound and sight, men's minds are fed with a constant drone of sycophantic support for a particular orthodox political philosophy? That is the first question we asked ourselves. I would like to see minds stimulated and debate provoked, and truth refined and crystallized out of the conflict of different evidence and views. I, therefore, welcome every and any opportunity of a chance to agree, or to dissent, in order that out of thesis comes synthesis - thesis, anti-major premise, anti-premise, synthesis, so we progress... I welcome every opportunity to meet members of the opposition, and so do members of my party, over the radio, over the television, university forums, public rallies. We never run away from the open encounter. If your ideas, your views cannot stand the challenge of criticism then they are too fragile and not sturdy enough to last. I am talking of the principle of the open society, the open debate, ideas, not intimidation, persuasion not coercion... Sir, the basic fundamentals we asked ourselves...is whether the duties of the Minister of Information and Broadcasting are to produce closed minds or open minds, because these instruments - the mass media, the TV, the radio - can produce either the open minds receptive to ideas and ideals, a democratic system of life, or closed and limited. But I know that the open debate is a painful process for closed minds...But let me make this point: that 5 million adult minds in Malaysia cannot be closed - definitely not in the lifetime of the people in authority. It is not possible because whatever the faults of the colonial system, and there are many...they generated the open mind, the inquiring mind." - Lee Kuan Yew Dec 18, 1964 Malaysian Parliamentary Debates
Originally posted by Atobe:My replies in Blue.
Thank you for letting me reply
How much do you know of what transpired during the 1987-88 and the 1997 crash ?
Not much if i refer to bloomberg n non SG news
If the politics of the First World countries cannot be compared to SG due to whatever reasons - is there any objectivity or purpose to compare the present political situation in SG which is so different from those First World countries that you wish to compare CSJ's action with ?
I still continue the stand that there should be no "own country bashing" for any politician in any country
The reason for breaking up your post into paragraph is to make careful and clear understanding of your writing instead of lumping your wonderful work into a general piece of unprocessed writing.
If you depend on the various newspaper articles and reviews - presumably all are Singaporean publications - you may as well subject yourself to the monotonous sound from a continuous syncophantic hammer drill held by the PAP control of SPH.
The press in SG or any country is NEVER INDEPENDENT, FOX in USA is pro republican but in local context, press reports from opposition is not properly reported is all i can say
Obviously, CSJ actions have been derided into antics by the publications that are controlled by PAP - do you expect anything complimentary to be said about you by someone who has negative feelings towards you that emanates from the core of their being ?
As much you can see from my earlier posts, i am NOT PRO-ESTABLISHMENT so whatever is being thrown by local reports are read with scepticism. I am just stating in order for Dr Chee to claim credibility among Singaporeans, he got to change tack and win the mind of oppositions so that his ideas can be properly debated in Parliament
Are you certain that given the political evolution in Singapore as it is, there can be any possibility of LKY and his PAP to allow CSJ any space to throw up his ideas and have any debate ?
That will probably happen why MM is not here, PAP cannot survive for long as they keep on having the GRC system and parachuting in their candidates into these cozy positions even w/o a fight with anyone. It's a matter of time. These candidates cannot even be seem in any functional activity in their wards, i do not need to drop names, it's very obvious.
If there is such a desire, will there be a need to have such tight controls to prevent public support to any Alternative Political Parties.
What Dr Chee should do is stop getting himself arrested and stop bashing Singapore as it pisses Singaporeans as everyone's rice bowl is at stake. SGreans love the opposition more than the ruling elite which is certainly not to be taken lightly but should be canvassed, harnessed.
As already mentioned earlier, we need more opposition not just to oppose but bring SG better. Dr Chee's academic writings are not to be dismissed but should be properly brought out for discussion.
Originally posted by Atobe:
The last statement is erroneous in assuming that CSJ is "the Opposition" personified - can one person's political strategy reflect the entire Opposition ?
Secondly, the manner in which LKY and the PAP had targetted CSJ - since his first political outing in 1992 - showed that politics have taken on an ugly personal level, in the same manner that the same treatment was meted to the late-JBJ.
Such treatment dished out in general doses are largely directed to those whom LKY feel most insecure with and see the most potent threat from.
Those personalities include Francis Seow (the previous Solicitor-General in SG), Tang Liang Hong, and those Ex-Barisan Sosialis members who were released but denied their political rights after being incarcerated even as they were part of the Founding Fathers of the PAP.
CSJ can no longer be in any position to win votes as long as he has a bankruptcy judgment that amount to millions to keep him out of politics.
He can only be a political activists to play on the conscience of LKY and the PAP leadership to remind them of their social and constitutional responsibilities towards Singaporeans.
Who else can play this role - when even the Law Society is not allowed to participate in their Constitutional sanctioned role to assist the Government in the legislative processes as part of the social responsibility of the Law Society ?
Be as it may, it is plain silly for the educated and younger Singapore Generations not to realise that without any willing voices to speak boldly and honestly on behalf of Singaporeans, the present route that LKY and the PAP will surely lead Singapore to a more unstable and uncertain future.
Thinkers like Catherine Lim also sees the same danger, and so do other silent ones that know better then to raise their profile.
thats true forgot that he is still in bankruptcy judgement....I alway feels that CSJ could perharps do better to explain to public the reason of gaining greater voices in the affair of the govt.
Unfortunately singaporean are still not clear about what kind of political reformed that is needed. They heard one side of the view that 2 party system is not for SG....I think there is a lack of educating why the needs for greater distribution of power and what kind of reformed needed to our parlimentary system.
Singaporean have the habit of generalizing and not have the patienc to listen to negative news rather they preferred to hit the nail that is sticking out.....not realizing that there are deeper warning signed that needs to pay attention at where we are going....
Berlin Walls has gone down for 20 yrs....our system hasn't really changed.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Singaporean have the habit of generalizing and not have the patienc to listen to negative news rather they preferred to hit the nail that is sticking out.....not realizing that there are deeper warning signed that needs to pay attention at where we are going....
Heh, pretty sure it's not limited to just Singaporeans.
Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Heh, pretty sure it's not limited to just Singaporeans.
You are most welcome to start a new thread about US?
Originally posted by Arapahoe:You are most welcome to start a new thread about US?
For a guy that's been doing so well i'm rather surprised you would think such an attitude would only be limited to Singapore and the US.
Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Singaporean have the habit of generalizing and not have the patienc to listen to negative news rather they preferred to hit the nail that is sticking out.....not realizing that there are deeper warning signed that needs to pay attention at where we are going....
Berlin Walls has gone down for 20 yrs....our system hasn't really changed.
Just for a gentlemenly discussion sake between us, what do you specifically mean when you claim 'our' system hasn't really changed? Are you generalizing as well - something that you claim others are guilty of now? Worse still, isnt your claim unsupported by the evidences of changes within our system since self governance under the brits till today?
Or are you seeking for a change just for the sake of changing - from the boiling pot into the frying pan?
What deeper warning are you alluding to, other than the lack of warning betrayal of our ecomonic efforts by the Outlaw with his past blatant UNconstitional deeds now?
Please do not close your eyes. There are many Berlin Walls that had already gone down than you realized. The internet was and still is one such almighty bulldozer that knocked down many a nation's iron or bamboo walls.
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
What sort of stupid country is it when only ONE brave soul dare to stand up against a cursed despot with a zombie wife, grabbing millions upon millions of public money for self and family?
...and losing billions to foreigners the country's reserves.....
What brave soul? One screwball of a nationa wrecker most likely.
csj, IT'S ALRIGHT FOR YOU TO KICK THE BUTTS OF THE ONES THAT SUED THE SHIT OUT OF YOU BUT DO NOT VENT YOUR HATRED AND ANGER AT SINGAPOREANS IN GENERAL.
Pls have your priorities in place before going gungho.We all know that there's alot of hate in you but pls put your country above yourself.
Originally posted by Tsh2005:csj, IT'S ALRIGHT FOR YOU TO KICK THE BUTTS OF THE ONES THAT SUED THE SHIT OUT OF YOU BUT DO NOT VENT YOUR HATRED AND ANGER AT SINGAPOREANS IN GENERAL.
Pls have your priorities in place before going gungho.We all know that there's alot of hate in you but pls put your country above yourself.
I don't think that he vented his hatred and anger at Singaporeans in general.
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
as what i have posted intially, i believe that maybe, just maybe Dr. Chee acted upon the best interest for Singapore, to oust the "dictorship" that Singapore is facing, however, it might just, i stress again, it MIGHT just create some negative impact on Singapore instead.
this is what i'm afraid and if that happens, i don't think i'll be too happy with him then...
Originally posted by novelltie:as what i have posted intially, i believe that maybe, just maybe Dr. Chee acted upon the best interest for Singapore, to oust the "dictorship" that Singapore is facing, however, it might just, i stress again, it MIGHT just create some negative impact on Singapore instead.
this is what i'm afraid and if that happens, i don't think i'll be too happy with him then...
He's just venting his anger at Singaporeans in general at not rising and deposing LKY and his cronies via violence.
Originally posted by xtreyier:Just for a gentlemenly discussion sake between us, what do you specifically mean when you claim 'our' system hasn't really changed? Are you generalizing as well - something that you claim others are guilty of now? Worse still, isnt your claim unsupported by the evidences of changes within our system since self governance under the brits till today?
Or are you seeking for a change just for the sake of changing - from the boiling pot into the frying pan?
What deeper warning are you alluding to, other than the lack of warning betrayal of our ecomonic efforts by the Outlaw with his past blatant UNconstitional deeds now?
Please do not close your eyes. There are many Berlin Walls that had already gone down than you realized. The internet was and still is one such almighty bulldozer that knocked down many a nation's iron or bamboo walls.
I closed my eyes? boiling point to frying pan? I think you were sleeping for the last decade.....
Yes what Deep warning? until you wake up and find yourself in the middle of the hole you are simply playing too much computer game.....
What level of political process do we have so that voices can be heard without fear of legal consequences?
How about independent of judicial from parlimentary
Did you just forgotten that we have not seemed an investigation as to why the lost of Billions from Temasek?
Did you not realized that when the ministered rised their salary majority of singaporean are totally helpless....? that is by far the worst situation we put ourselved to lost the abilities to Question.
when the government asked citizen to lower their expectation they are telling its people the government did their best.... in the work force generally that is basically to step aside...
Like i said many times...testimonial to the Singapore leadership as mention educated Singaporean are moving out..perharps your tears should be drop by the fact that it is a Lost for Singapore.
Even the former prime minister cook had move out....which i have been enjoying the person cooking for the last 4 years.
The Berlin Wall has been down for 20 years credit to people who tirelessly struggle and never gave up for Freedom. There are plenty of people Killed crossing that Wall during the cold war.
Singapore don't have to built a wall we have you to built yourself a viture wall.
Originally posted by Acx1688:
Thank you for letting me reply
How much do you know of what transpired during the 1987-88 and the 1997 crash ?
Not much if i refer to bloomberg n non SG news
The Straits Times have shared their archive with the National Library, and it seems that you can access them from home by having an account with National Library.
It is a treasure trove of information of events that transpired in Singapore based on the PAP's version of political issues, and their preferred visions of anything to do with Singapore's position on social and cultural developments - other then factual events.
If you are overseas, you could make an effort to visit the British National Archive to search the released Official Records from its Colonial Office.
If the politics of the First World countries cannot be compared to SG due to whatever reasons - is there any objectivity or purpose to compare the present political situation in SG which is so different from those First World countries that you wish to compare CSJ's action with ?
I still continue the stand that there should be no "own country bashing" for any politician in any country
No one should bashed one's "own country" - and the skewed impression given to CSJ's call to Obama has been deliberated given a twist to suit the political agenda to sully his name further.
Is it not surreal that the syncophantic insistence continue to ignore the clear facts made to show the differences in what was published in the Temasek Review, with what the TS had printed ?
It is not a surprise that the xenophobic rabble rousers will double their efforts to stoke up the fire with more inflammotary efforts so as to light up their xenophobic heroism in seemingly defending Singapore, even as they hide their true work to cover the misdeeds of LKY and the PAP on Singapore and Singaporeans.
The reason for breaking up your post into paragraph is to make careful and clear understanding of your writing instead of lumping your wonderful work into a general piece of unprocessed writing.
If you depend on the various newspaper articles and reviews - presumably all are Singaporean publications - you may as well subject yourself to the monotonous sound from a continuous syncophantic hammer drill held by the PAP control of SPH.The press in SG or any country is NEVER INDEPENDENT, FOX in USA is pro republican but in local context, press reports from opposition is not properly reported is all i can say
Even if FOX is not independent and can be bias in favor of the Right Wing Politics, at least in the USA there is the immense opportunity for any other disgusted citizens to set up private capital to start a competing publication to counter the controlled bias.
Can this happen in Singapore ?
Without any alternative and independent publications to offer alternative opportunities to those maligned by the State-controlled print and broadcast media - Singaporeans can only have their views and values moulded and "trained" in one direction.
Obviously, CSJ actions have been derided into antics by the publications that are controlled by PAP - do you expect anything complimentary to be said about you by someone who has negative feelings towards you that emanates from the core of their being ?
As much you can see from my earlier posts, i am NOT PRO-ESTABLISHMENT so whatever is being thrown by local reports are read with scepticism. I am just stating in order for Dr Chee to claim credibility among Singaporeans, he got to change tack and win the mind of oppositions so that his ideas can be properly debated in Parliament
Unfortunately, whatever CSJ's ideas are that have been reported are and will be generally skewed by the controlled local print and broadcast medias.
Can he be represented accurately by any local print and broadcast media ?
Can anyone count on the State controlled print and broadcast media to provide CSJ or any Politician from the Alternative Political Parties equal space and time to reach out to Singaporeans ?
Until Singaporeans believe that the PAP has no right to change the Singapore Constitution to give only themselves the Rights guaranteed while denying the same to Singaporeans - then nothing that Dr Chee does will be seen to be credible.
At this stage of the political development, it is retrogressive - as the generations that lived through the events of WW-2, of the 1950s till 1965, are familiar with the political space and knew what was political freedom.
Obviously, for PAP's own poltiical interests - they will tweak the interpretation of the events of the 1950s to 60's - to focus attention to their interpretations of uncertainties, death and destruction from riots - when most of those events were deliberately set up by the political leadership themselves for their own political gains.
The generations that grew from 1965 to 1975 saw the beginning of the political space being shrunk; while the generations that were born from 1975 till the present have been nurtured to the values of the PAP that politics is for the Politicians, and that no one is more qualified than the elite talents appointed to political office.
The emphasis is on "appointed" - as LKY and the PAP believe that only they are the ones qualified to select and annoint who should be in politics, and those that they cannot accept to be their partner in politics will be mowed and shredded.
How else could Chiam See Tong and Low Thia Kiang lasted so long, while the late JBJ who was as fiery and outspoken as CSJ were cut down ruthlessly, and those with the qualifications and fast minds of Francis Seow and Tang Liang Hong - (and the other PAP Founding Fathers who disagreed with LKY and his team) - were all persecuted into oblivion ?
Are you certain that given the political evolution in Singapore as it is, there can be any possibility of LKY and his PAP to allow CSJ any space to throw up his ideas and have any debate ?
That will probably happen why MM is not here, PAP cannot survive for long as they keep on having the GRC system and parachuting in their candidates into these cozy positions even w/o a fight with anyone. It's a matter of time. These candidates cannot even be seem in any functional activity in their wards, i do not need to drop names, it's very obvious.
The other danger for Singapore is that by the time MM move on from this world, how much more damage would have occurred for Singapore, when his ideas are set in concrete and become institutionalised, to be accepted as the Golden Rules even by majority of Singaporeans blinded by the false values created to entrench the PAP ?
When LKY dared to evoke the values of ancient Confucianism - which had basically stratified the roles of government and citizenry - simply to give its old philosophy a new twist to validate his own relevance and that of the PAP style of benevolent autocratic politics, the majority of the older Chinese educated population lauded his wisdom, only to regret the political fallout from the decades of his autocratic rule without the much hoped for benevolence.
If there is such a desire, will there be a need to have such tight controls to prevent public support to any Alternative Political Parties.
What Dr Chee should do is stop getting himself arrested and stop bashing Singapore as it pisses Singaporeans as everyone's rice bowl is at stake. SGreans love the opposition more than the ruling elite which is certainly not to be taken lightly but should be canvassed, harnessed.
As already mentioned earlier, we need more opposition not just to oppose but bring SG better. Dr Chee's academic writings are not to be dismissed but should be properly brought out for discussion.
It is a surprise that you will hold the view to equate bashing the PAP Government as bashing Singapore ?
Dr Chee is insisting on breaking an UNLAWFUL Law - that goes against the grain of the Singapore Constitution which had guaranteed the Rights of All Singaporeans according to the simple words written.
Not all Singaporeans are pissed by his actions, although many feel his actions to be pitiable in that he is seen as butting his head on a Wall.
Then again, if there is no Dr Chee prepared to stand up - how many other indignant and concerned Singaporean will be prepared to stand up like him ?
Many will not even pick up the pen or even enter a forum to stand on his side, and will prefer to stand safely with the view of the majority - many of whom simply flow with the values that were moulded by the daily insinuations from print and broadcast medias.
Many have resigned themselve to their present fate that PAP is too strong, and things will not change until LKY moved on.
Many have forgotten that LKY is a long term planner and has already put in place all the mechanism and preparatory works for the future.
The uncertain future after LKY - remains unspoken, and those prepared measures remain secret - but rest assured it will perpetuate and entrench the PAP further into the lives of Singapore - and Singaporeans will NOT have any say.
As long as the cursed despot with a zombie wife continues to do his despicable acts against the opposition, activists and their families, with the support of his asslicking dogs like those in this forum, Dr Chee Soon Juan's actions will always be viewed as heroic... and he will always be considered the Martyr of Singapore, admired for his bravery, standing up against the cursed despot and his cancer in the anus son.
Can you imagine a world where no one stands up against cursed despots? Hitler would have succeeded and Saddam Hussein still alive.
Originally posted by Atobe:
The Straits Times have shared their archive with the National Library, and it seems that you can access them from home by having an account with National Library.
It is a treasure trove of information of events that transpired in Singapore based on the PAP's version of political issues, and their preferred visions of anything to do with Singapore's position on social and cultural developments - other then factual events.
If you are overseas, you could make an effort to visit the British National Archive to search the released Official Records from its Colonial Office.
All along SG news have skewed towards the ruling elite and is more biased reporting and outright offensive, not doubt about that...
With regards to the BNA, can a non-citizen get in to view?Pls PM me
No one should bashed one's "own country" - and the skewed impression given to CSJ's call to Obama has been deliberated given a twist to suit the political agenda to sully his name further.
Is it not surreal that the syncophantic insistence continue to ignore the clear facts made to show the differences in what was published in the Temasek Review, with what the TS had printed ?
It is not a surprise that the xenophobic rabble rousers will double their efforts to stoke up the fire with more inflammotary efforts so as to light up their xenophobic heroism in seemingly defending Singapore, even as they hide their true work to cover the misdeeds of LKY and the PAP on Singapore and Singaporeans.
TS or ST?!
Even if FOX is not independent and can be bias in favor of the Right Wing Politics, at least in the USA there is the immense opportunity for any other disgusted citizens to set up private capital to start a competing publication to counter the controlled bias.
Can this happen in Singapore ? Afraid NOT when the ruling elite still holds rein parachuting desk bound jockeys to political positions and holding skewedviews that destroy our heritage/history in terms of progress[eg wet market]
Without an alternative and independent publications to offer alternative opportunities to those maligned by the State-controlled print and broadcast media - Singaporeans can only have their views and values moulded and "trained" in one direction.
Unfortunately, whatever his ideas are that have been reported are generally skewed by the local print and broadcast medias.
Can he be represented accurately by any local print and broadcast media ?
Can anyone count on the State controlled print and broadcast media to provide CSJ or any Politician from the Alternative Political Parties equal space and time to reach out to Singaporeans ?
Until Singaporeans believe that the PAP has no right to change the Singapore Constitution to give only themselves the Rights guaranteed and deny the same to Singaporeans - then nothing that Dr Chee does will be seen to be credible.
At this stage of the political development, it is retrogressive - as the generations that lived through the WW-2, the events of the 1950s till 1965, had the political space and knew what was political freedom.
The generations that grew from 1965 to 1975 saw the beginning of the political space; while the generations that were born from 1975 till the present have been nurtured to the values of the PAP that politics is for the Politicians, and that no one is more qualified than the elite talents appointed to political office.
The emphasis is on "appointed" - as LKY and the PAP believe that only they are the one qualified to select and annoint who should be in politics, and those that they cannot accept from their own political judgment to be their partner in politics will be mowed and shredded.
The older generation regreted their blatant support for the ruling elite only recently when they realised that policies are going against them and is more n more biased in terms of employment, housing, CPF
The other danger for Singapore is by the time MM move on from this world, how much more damage would have occurred for Singapore, when his ideas are set in concrete and become institutionalised - to be accepted as the Golden Rules even by majority of Singaporeans blinded by the false values created to entrench the PAP ?
When LKY dared to evoke the values of ancient Confucianism - which had basically stratified the roles of government and citizenry - simply to validate the relevance to his and his PAP style of benevolent autocratic politics, the majority of the older Chinese educated population lauded his wisdom, only to regret the political fallout from the decades of his autocratic rule without the much hoped for benevolence.
It is a surprise that you will hold the view to equate bashing the PAP Government as bashing Singapore ?
Dr Chee is insisting on breaking an UNLAWFUL Law - that goes against the grain of the Singapore Constitution which had guaranteed the Rights of All Singaporeans according to the simple words written.
Not all Singaporeans are pissed by his actions, although many feel his actions to be pitiable in that he is seen as butting his head on a Wall.
Then again, if there is no Dr Chee prepared to stand up - how many other indignant and concerned Singaporean will be prepared to stand up like him ?
Many will not even pick up the pen or even enter a forum to stand on his side, and will prefer to stand safely with the view of the majority - many of whom simply flow with the values that were moulded by the daily insinuations from print and broadcast medias.
Many have resigned themselve to their present fate that PAP is too strong, and things will change when LKY moved on.
Many have forgotten that LKY is a long term planner and has already put in place all the mechanism and preparatory works for the future.
The uncertain future after LKY - remains unspoken, and those prepared measures remain secret - but rest assured it will perpetuate and entrench the PAP further into the lives of Singapore - and Singaporeans will NOT have any say.
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