Unemployment hits 5% among Singapore residents
-
Originally posted by Stevenson101:
The devil in the details is the quality of the jobs for that other 95% i'm guessing.
It's still 95% if 90% are earning 700 dollars a month and 5% are earning 200,000 a month. ( Though of course, i'm exaggerating )
This is the worrying trend.
It is very real because every year, we hear the same old story of the widening income gap.
The government seems unable or unwilling to do anything about it.
-
Originally posted by ahbeo:
5% of local residents unemployed; rising local resident unemployment rate, with a rising immigrant population. Where are the jobs going to?
@angel, while i have no idea where the ministry gets its figures from, by definition, you have to be available to work and seeking work but currently without work to be classified as unemployed.
@ahbeo, how they come about this satistics I also dunno, what is the demograhic, ages and genders, i also dunno, so what about housewifes, are they consider as unemployed, I believe all this figures are generated from IRA return, anyone within the working age range not submitting IRA, can be deem as jobless..while as i said earlier in my post, ah longs and bookies, taoist priests and monks driving merc and jaguar can be consider as jobless, there is no proper record of their earning, all by hands. -
Originally posted by charlize:
This is the worrying trend.
It is very real because every year, we hear the same old story of the widening income gap.
The government seems unable or unwilling to do anything about it.
PM said social divide is inevitable in a vibrant global economy like ours, those who can perform will go up all the way, and those who cannot, will have to slip downward. -
statistics cannot be trusted as they can be manipulated.
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
@ahbeo, how they come about this satistics I also dunno, what is the demograhic, ages and genders, i also dunno, so what about housewifes, are they consider as unemployed, I believe all this figures are generated from IRA return, anyone within the working age range not submitting IRA, can be deem as jobless..while as i said earlier in my post, ah longs and bookies, taoist priests and monks driving merc and jaguar can be consider as jobless, there is no proper record of their earning, all by hands.I am not sure about ah longs. But religious people are registered. Like the taoist and buddhist federations.
Originally posted by angel7030:
PM said social divide is inevitable in a vibrant global economy like ours, those who can perform will go up all the way, and those who cannot, will have to slip downward.A romantic way of avoiding the issue. Social divide is an important issue. While it is inevitable, there should be measures to cushion such by-products of capitalism(or any form for that matter).
-
Originally posted by ahbeo:
I am not sure about ah longs. But religious people are registered. Like the taoist and buddhist federations.
A romantic way of avoiding the issue. Social divide is an important issue. While it is inevitable, there should be measures to cushion such by-products of capitalism(or any form for that matter).
Any political science student will understand that social divide is inevitable especially in a capitalist society, and worst if it is a elitism one. And this by product given in any test, is deem dangerous and potential for future revolve. It is up to the govt, if the divide is too far, with the larger mass being in the lower side of the division, a revolution can take at any time, you see that happening in the history of most countries, China for example, is typical social divide society before it become communist led by Mao and his poor farmer army who felt that they are much neglected and divided. Singapore being a modest history of only 40+ years is still a long way to go, it had yet to see a full scale revolution, it just take a special one to spark the light and god bless us.
-
5 percent
no wonder somtimes SC also so crowded
during daytime..
even high class eating places also sibi crowded
Think this 5 percent are those tio toto de
no need to work liao
-
blame it on foreign talent or foreign workers lar, for snatching our jobs away.
I dun see there is a need to employ foreign clerk or even a foreign accountant, as sg do not shun these jobs like construction workers, where sg generally shun this industry.
so whats the government excuses this time round? singaporeans do not shun the work of accounts, finance, etc.
-
Originally posted by Rooney9:
blame it on foreign talent or foreign workers lar, for snatching our jobs away.
I dun see there is a need to employ foreign clerk or even a foreign accountant, as sg do not shun these jobs like construction workers, where sg generally shun this industry.
so whats the government excuses this time round? singaporeans do not shun the work of accounts, finance, etc.
the explanation here is cost, if we dun lower the wage cost, which is base on senority wage system, we are doom, foreign financial insitutions and others FDI will venture out into other places. Remember we need to be cheap, as cheap as those gals standing outside my gate now...go call police first... -
Originally posted by angel7030:
the explanation here is cost, if we dun lower the wage cost, which is base on senority wage system, we are doom, foreign financial insitutions and others FDI will venture out into other places. Remember we need to be cheap, as cheap as those gals standing outside my gate now...go call police first...foreigners are taking away our jobs, period.
-
sg gahman brought in so many aliens
from different planets
no wonder everyone also not happy
Like rojak liao..
LHL advise.
UPgrade!!!! all must upgrade!!
Go take course!!!
Next time wash toilet , also must got cert liao
-
Originally posted by noahnoah:
sg gahman brought in so many aliens
from different planets
no wonder everyone also not happy
Like rojak liao..
LHL advise.
UPgrade!!!! all must upgrade!!
Go take course!!!
Next time wash toilet , also must got cert liao
PHD how to upgrade? maybe upgrade to another PHD in another field
-
Originally posted by noahnoah:
sg gahman brought in so many aliens
from different planets
no wonder everyone also not happy
Like rojak liao..
LHL advise.
UPgrade!!!! all must upgrade!!
Go take course!!!
Next time wash toilet , also must got cert liao
Upgrade so that you can get lower wages.
Yes, minister says must get cheaper.
-
Originally posted by charlize:
Good point on the 4% full employment criteria.
However, knowing how it works in sg, you might want to take the unemployment figures with a pinch of salt. Do you believe that the figure is around 5% or perhaps even higher? You will note that the calculation criteria of the unemployment rate excludes those who are not actively looking for a job - there could be many retrenched workers going back to school to upgrade their skills / knowledge or taking courses. Hence, I believe this figure could actually be higher for the "true" unemployement rate.
A retrenched executive washing dishes at the kopitiam (if he is even lucky to get this job) is considered employed. As with my earlier point, it seems to me now that the number of jobs created recently (mostly low level / F&B , service related ) can largely be attributed to the increase in population eg. why more kopitiam workers are needed - to cater to more people eating at the kopitiams. The creation of these low wage jobs actually masks the true situation in the economy - jobless managers / executives cannot be expected to take these jobs as permanent.
As it is, the government apparently is of the view that as long as everybody has a "job" regardless of whether it is suitable or relevant to the person doing that job, they have done their duty.
Insightful
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
Any political science student will understand that social divide is inevitable especially in a capitalist society, and worst if it is a elitism one. And this by product given in any test, is deem dangerous and potential for future revolve. It is up to the govt, if the divide is too far, with the larger mass being in the lower side of the division, a revolution can take at any time, you see that happening in the history of most countries, China for example, is typical social divide society before it become communist led by Mao and his poor farmer army who felt that they are much neglected and divided. Singapore being a modest history of only 40+ years is still a long way to go, it had yet to see a full scale revolution, it just take a special one to spark the light and god bless us.
Anybody can see that a certain amount social division is inevitable (i said that in my previous post). And it is not a very desirable state to be in and definately should NOT be encouraged. Or are you implying that we should test how far we can push the people? You talk of revolution and give the example of pre-Mao china. Please take note of the state of affairs in china at that point of time. China is a big country and the complexity of government probably means that the more outward provinces/counties/whatever from the capital will have less centralised governmental control. Does it apply to singapore?
Originally posted by angel7030:
the explanation here is cost, if we dun lower the wage cost, which is base on senority wage system, we are doom, foreign financial insitutions and others FDI will venture out into other places. Remember we need to be cheap, as cheap as those gals standing outside my gate now...go call police first...Cost is a concern for the employers (cost of doing business) as well as the people (cost of living). Should we move the funds from the people, to the businesses? When we do that, are we treating our citizens as stakeholders of the country (in which their interests should be taken care of) instead of assets (where they are to be used) in favour of the MNCs? How cheap would you suggest we make our labour? Foreigners' families may live in other countries like indonesia, philiphines etc. where the cost of living is lower. Singaporeans, we can safely say that most will have their families here. So, pls advise as to what you mean by as cheap as the girls standing outside your gate.
-
Originally posted by charlize:
You know times are bad when even your long time PR friends start complaining.
The % of high end jobs for grads vs low skilled / low value add jobs has apparently decreased over the past few years. Could be due to the MNCs trimming their operations in sg and moving overseas.
Seems like more and more low skilled jobs are being created largely due to the increase in population - kopitiam jobs, cleaning jobs, F&B service jobs etc while higher end jobs being created are seldom mentioned in the papers (notwithstanding there is a recession going on).
Singapore's primary goal is to create jobs to reach full employment. They have been adopting this policy since the 1970s. However, the workforce of Singapore has evolved dramatically over the years. There are more and more educated people as compared to generation X in the 80s and they have higher aspirations and yet government continues to focus on creating low skilled jobs with no career development in them. It is time for them to tweak their old policy and not continue to believe that old policy still apply in the 21st century. -
Originally posted by Rooney9:
foreigners are taking away our jobs, period.
Agreed to a certain extend, but you have to agree that foreigner also helped our economy. -
Originally posted by ahbeo:
Anybody can see that a certain amount social division is inevitable (i said that in my previous post). And it is not a very desirable state to be in and definately should NOT be encouraged. Or are you implying that we should test how far we can push the people? You talk of revolution and give the example of pre-Mao china. Please take note of the state of affairs in china at that point of time. China is a big country and the complexity of government probably means that the more outward provinces/counties/whatever from the capital will have less centralised governmental control. Does it apply to singapore?
Cost is a concern for the employers (cost of doing business) as well as the people (cost of living). Should we move the funds from the people, to the businesses? When we do that, are we treating our citizens as stakeholders of the country (in which their interests should be taken care of) instead of assets (where they are to be used) in favour of the MNCs? How cheap would you suggest we make our labour? Foreigners' families may live in other countries like indonesia, philiphines etc. where the cost of living is lower. Singaporeans, we can safely say that most will have their families here. So, pls advise as to what you mean by as cheap as the girls standing outside your gate.
Let me tell you about the ideology of LKY in term of social divide, not that he dun understand that disparity of social can cause a fragmentation which can lead to revoke and riots. Comparing singapore poors to poors of other country, they are not that poor yet, the ideology here is give them a house, a job to struggle with and a stable income, no one would harbour the sense of revoke, just complaining is normal.Also given the flexibility of movement for the poor, most poor feel the inferior disadvantage, rich is banks or in the pants, who know you are rich on the street, a poor singaporean can visit shopping centre and luxurious places as he/she like, yet he/she lives beside the rich and also enjoyed the same facilities as them, more or less a bit different only, rich got club, poor got NTUC club, SCC, safra and CC clubs too, Rich go aircon supermarket, the poor also go NTUC fairprice aircon shopping, the rich go orchard the poor also can go orchard ION. But whatever the rich travel, spent, lives or tour is none of the poor business, there social divide can be deem as only monetary, freedom and status is still very much untouch, unlike the poor of other countries, some dun enuf food to eat, no shelter to live on, been exploit by the rich, cannot go to luxurious hotel or shopping, some cannot even enter airport and have to find food at rubbish dumb. Therefore if the question of when our poor will to start to revoke, i dun think so, LKY is a smart man, he makes the poors look normal and on par with the rich in term of social day to day life.
In psychology, humans are bound to be anger and jealous by someone who is richer than them and yet exploited them, Mao, in red china, using already understand this concept, he used the rural northern ring poor farmers to start a rebel against Kuoming party, he knows how to exploit and condition the poors heart and mind into his gain. That's brilliant. No doubt it is a different era today, but if some dude is able to preach and make realised their situation, things can happen, who knows?
When you talk about poor, what is poor, as long as someone is richer than you, you call yourself poor, logic or not? So, i think we have to really see what poor it before making assumption that we are poor.
-
Originally posted by ahbeo:
Cost is a concern for the employers (cost of doing business) as well as the people (cost of living). Should we move the funds from the people, to the businesses? When we do that, are we treating our citizens as stakeholders of the country (in which their interests should be taken care of) instead of assets (where they are to be used) in favour of the MNCs? How cheap would you suggest we make our labour? Foreigners' families may live in other countries like indonesia, philiphines etc. where the cost of living is lower. Singaporeans, we can safely say that most will have their families here. So, pls advise as to what you mean by as cheap as the girls standing outside your gate.
those girls are cheap in life, not in pocket, on a good day, they can make more than any CEO per day paid.
Cost is definitely an employer concern, take yourself as a boss, what is the best, easiest and effective way to cut cost? with no doubt you have to agree it is labour cost. We are already an industrialised nation, from training to skill to knowledge to a global economy. And we need FDI input to survive, as long as we can create jobs, we create it, but our population is aging and our people are getting lesser, how then can we support a vibrant global economy without foreign manpowers?? With no doubts, no body wants intruder into their house, but what choice do you have if your house need a lot of work to be done and you are not capable of doing it with not only small amount of manpower but also aging manpower. And of course, after coming up to this stage of economy, there is no way we are going to go back to basic, if that happen, we are killing ourselves. We take foreigners in a view that he is helping our economy, working hand in hand to help our singapore. Having said all, do you think foreigner like to come here, they would had preferred to stay with their family in their own country, but because they get no opportunity there, by coming here is a sacrification, if they make money, so be it, if Asia goes up, would it be nice for Singapore too.
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
Let me tell you about the ideology of LKY in term of social divide, not that he dun understand that disparity of social can cause a fragmentation which can lead to revoke and riots. Comparing singapore poors to poors of other country, they are not that poor yet, the ideology here is give them a house, a job to struggle with and a stable income, no one would harbour the sense of revoke, just complaining is normal.Thank for agreeing that the policies seem to be treating the populance like nothing more than worker bees. A job to struggle with? a stable income? maybe you should review your reply to rooney9. Complaining is normal. Deliberately making the people complain is another issue.
Also given the flexibility of movement for the poor, most poor feel the inferior disadvantage, rich is banks or in the pants, who know you are rich on the street, a poor singaporean can visit shopping centre and luxurious places as he/she like, yet he/she lives beside the rich and also enjoyed the same facilities as them, more or less a bit different only, rich got club, poor got NTUC club, SCC, safra and CC clubs too, Rich go aircon supermarket, the poor also go NTUC fairprice aircon shopping, the rich go orchard the poor also can go orchard ION. But whatever the rich travel, spent, lives or tour is none of the poor business, there social divide can be deem as only monetary, freedom and status is still very much untouch, unlike the poor of other countries, some dun enuf food to eat, no shelter to live on, been exploit by the rich, cannot go to luxurious hotel or shopping, some cannot even enter airport and have to find food at rubbish dumb. Therefore if the question of when our poor will to start to revoke, i dun think so, LKY is a smart man, he makes the poors look normal and on par with the rich in term of social day to day life.
An overly simplistic view IMO. Poor living beside the rich? maybe you would like to give your definition of whats rich and whats poor. There are more issues than this. Availability of healthcare, law etc. freedom and status? you must be delusional. When one is shackled by the burden of having to live from hand to mouth, much of the freedom is lost.
In psychology, humans are bound to be anger and jealous by someone who is richer than them and yet exploited them, Mao, in red china, using already understand this concept, he used the rural northern ring poor farmers to start a rebel against Kuoming party, he knows how to exploit and condition the poors heart and mind into his gain. That's brilliant. No doubt it is a different era today, but if some dude is able to preach and make realised their situation, things can happen, who knows?
Nice word, exploited. =)
When you talk about poor, what is poor, as long as someone is richer than you, you call yourself poor, logic or not? So, i think we have to really see what poor it before making assumption that we are poor.
Poorer is the word, poor in comparison with another. Yes, we should really see what poor is in countries that are similar to sg.
Originally posted by angel7030:those girls are cheap in life, not in pocket, on a good day, they can make more than any CEO per day paid.
Cost is definitely an employer concern, take yourself as a boss, what is the best, easiest and effective way to cut cost? with no doubt you have to agree it is labour cost. We are already an industrialised nation, from training to skill to knowledge to a global economy. And we need FDI input to survive, as long as we can create jobs, we create it, but our population is aging and our people are getting lesser, how then can we support a vibrant global economy without foreign manpowers?With no doubts, no body wants intruder into their house, but what choice do you have if your house need a lot of work to be done and you are not capable of doing it with not only small amount of manpower but also aging manpower.
The issue is never simply about foreigners working here. The issue is about the lack of safeguards for the locally-bred populance. And the "open the floodgates" policy towards immigration, thus increasing the supply of employees. driving down the wages and making an already employers' market even more pro-employer.I believe nobody would be against immigration if their position is not threatened. There are not many issues in the 1990s, only in recent years are people feeling threatened.
And of course, after coming up to this stage of economy, there is no way we are going to go back to basic, if that happen, we are killing ourselves. We take foreigners in a view that he is helping our economy, working hand in hand to help our singapore. Having said all, do you think foreigner like to come here, they would had preferred to stay with their family in their own country, but because they get no opportunity there, by coming here is a sacrification, if they make money, so be it, if Asia goes up, would it be nice for Singapore too.
Yeah yeah nice to read, good to say. If the economy can expand until there is an abundance of openings to be filled, your essay would hold true. Is that the case? Foreigners come here, sure got sacrifice, but if it doesnt work out, they can go home. Singaporeans, if crowded out of the market by these people with families in lower-cost-of-living countries, even if we jump sea also only can swim to sentosa, or sail to tekong to get shot?
-
Mr Ah Beo,
I am going to keep it short,
As for the political arenas,
What the govt doing here is simple, in term of social economy, they make it into a peaceful society for its citizens at the expense of the citizens having to struggle for a living in any class. And given the need to ever struggling, the return of a peaceful and harmony society satisfied many. And in it struggling with time and cost, citizens have no time for politic matters, and that play into the objective of govt, who can then stay in power for a long time due to citizen political alienation.
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
Mr Ah Beo,
I am going to keep it short,
As for the political arenas,
What the govt doing here is simple, in term of social economy, they make it into a peaceful society for its citizens at the expense of the citizens having to struggle for a living in any class. And given the need to ever struggling, the return of a peaceful and harmony society satisfied many. And in it struggling with time and cost, citizens have no time for politic matters, and that play into the objective of govt, who can then stay in power for a long time due to citizen political alienation.
Who also know. Every govt's primary interests in staying in power. Or serving the interests of its sponsors/affiliated companies etc. And there are many ways to do it. Making the citizens dependent, suppression of information, state ideology etc etc. Democracy is nice to hear and stuff, but what is it actually? A popularity contest. what is war? To serve their own interests, traditionally, to continue being in power (of cos there is a theory that US went to war in irag for the oil but that is another story).
What you mean by satisfied with the need to be ever struggling is beyond me. More like no choice mus endure it as you seem to be a proponent of, since most of your posts suggests "its like this one" and not "what is the solution" or "what can be done".
-
Originally posted by ahbeo:
Who also know. Every govt's primary interests in staying in power. Or serving the interests of its sponsors/affiliated companies etc. And there are many ways to do it. Making the citizens dependent, suppression of information, state ideology etc etc. Democracy is nice to hear and stuff, but what is it actually? A popularity contest. what is war? To serve their own interests, traditionally, to continue being in power (of cos there is a theory that US went to war in irag for the oil but that is another story).
What you mean by satisfied with the need to be ever struggling is beyond me. More like no choice mus endure it as you seem to be a proponent of, since most of your posts suggests "its like this one" and not "what is the solution" or "what can be done".
Recently, i read a book on The German Nazi peoples. In it, it said, Hilter was taken as the mother of all evil in going into a war that killed many, but Hilter is not alone, the Germans were also one of the culprit evil whom in a way supported the War.
If you apply that into Singapore, we had keep a blaming culture on the govt in whatever or whenever they set policy to move this or increase that...citizen of singapore will blah blah all the way cursing and complaining. When I was back in Taiwan, my taiwanese asked, "why singaporean like to curse their govt, afterall they can change it if they dun like" follow by "Singaporeans are really stupid and funny" I dun blame them, the outside world look at Singapore on it peoples, not the govt, the people mandated the Govt to rule and set policy, then if the peoples start to curse and complain about its Govt for years without changing, isn't it funny? In another words, we, same as the Nazi peoples, are the culprit of our own destiny.
Our govt created a capitalist social economy that bring about ownership thru loans and financing. Nearly all singaporean are in debt, rich or poor, always buying and selling, always upgrading, always improving lifestyle...as such each individual will become more focus on each social economy status and forgo political intervention all together. When the govt make a policy, we never think of poltical intervention or retialation, instead we think of what we are going to do out of the new policy to maximise our social economy status.
-
Originally posted by angel7030:
Agreed to a certain extend, but you have to agree that foreigner also helped our economy.do you know in some western and developed countries like switzerland and japan, first sign of recession coming, first to go are the jobs of foreigners, as they are competing for jobs with the locals. anyway foreigners cant vote in election, so the politicians there focus and channel efforts towards locals.
-
yes foreigners do help our labour market, but employ foreigners only if cant find locals to fill the jobs mah. do you know that all our jobs are open to foreigners including customer service, retail, call centre, accounting, finance etc. why do you need to hire foreigners at call centre with foreign accent, where singaporeans are not shunning the job. easy, it has to do with the cheap pay of foreigners. so its no longer a question of locals shunning the job, its more of the employers hiring foreigners to save cost. if thats the case, why not hire foreign CEO and directors from Phillipines, Thailand, China, India, Vietnam etc if cost is a consideration. the pay of a director can hire dunno how many staffs.