Propaganda in Civil Service
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I have just heard from a friend who has newly joined the civil service that new staff are made to sit through sessions where the modern history of Singapore is shown on video......PAP's founding fathers.......racial riots....the turbulent 60s......communist threats etc etc.
So not only pri and sec kids are brainwashed through National Education which they call NE, adults also gotta suffer? LOL
Which thinking and mature adult would allow themselves to be brainwashed by self serving govt propaganda? haha joke.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
I have just heard from a friend who has newly joined the civil service that new staff are made to sit through sessions where the modern history of Singapore is shown on video......PAP's founding fathers.....racial riots....the turbulent 60s......communist threats etc etc.
So not only pri and sec kids are brainwashed through National Education which they call NE, adults also gotta suffer? LOL
Which thinking and mature adult would allow themselves to be brainwashed by self serving govt propaganda? haha joke.
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sometimes i wonder..
history = propaganda?
no matter how much they were facts, it's "propaganda"
pick your fights..
sewer serpents are also working hacks trying to bring home the bacon for their families...
do not mistake the working hacks out there who issue your passport, who ensure that the fallen trees are cleared up, who make sure the criminals are in jail, with the POLITICIANS who are running the country....
and try not to confuse the POLITICIANS and their accursed POLITICAL PARTIES with the country as a whole...
p.s. some in the sewer service are starting to understand that gabraments come and go, the civil service will always be there no matter with a responsibility to serve the people... and more and more realise that they are not the MIW.. they are the civil service..
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History have always been written by the victorious. Hence, unfortunately, all history are propaganda to a certain extent. Oh yes, that includes the social studies "textbooks" we have here, the one that claims Singapore has no homeless people.
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Originally posted by the Bear:
sometimes i wonder..
history = propaganda?
no matter how much they were facts, it's "propaganda"
pick your fights..
sewer serpents are also working hacks trying to bring home the bacon for their families...
do not mistake the working hacks out there who issue your passport, who ensure that the fallen trees are cleared up, who make sure the criminals are in jail, with the POLITICIANS who are running the country....
and try not to confuse the POLITICIANS and their accursed POLITICAL PARTIES with the country as a whole...
p.s. some in the sewer service are starting to understand that gabraments come and go, the civil service will always be there no matter with a responsibility to serve the people... and more and more realise that they are not the MIW.. they are the civil service..
In the First World Countries with mature societies that have high standards of political practices seperating the Executive, Legislative, Judiciary and the Civil Service, one can expect the various bodies of Government to support and check on each other, so as to prevent any one body from abusing the Citizens.Unfortunately, in countries with less mature political systems that feature politicians who are constantly insecure of their continued political relevance to their community, it is common to see all the various bodies of Government being dominated by a central political figure or entity.
While attracted to the "iron rice bowl" of Government Service, can a Civil Servant act independently, and not allow itself to be subjected to the Political Influence and Directions of its Political Master ?
As matters stand, with the Government being the biggest employer of Singaporeans, it is not surprising that most are members of the PAP - considering the size of the PAP general membership and privileged cardre corp.
With LKY displaying a Third World Political Mentality in his insistence to have 100% political dominance and control, will he allow a Civil Service to be independent, and to be headed by anyone that does not support the PAP ideology ?
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i worked in civil service before..the top civil servants i know there have really no choice, . Some of them think that the workforce is dominated by govt agencies since the Govt is the biggest employer. need to bring bak bread for family , what to do? i know some of them are nice people. They are also victims of the system, cornered and nowhere else to go . They have financial commitments to family , singles is to their parents, ect...
they do think that the the govt has become unpopular and ppl will vote them out
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
I have just heard from a friend who has newly joined the civil service that new staff are made to sit through sessions where the modern history of Singapore is shown on video......PAP's founding fathers.......racial riots....the turbulent 60s......communist threats etc etc.
So not only pri and sec kids are brainwashed through National Education which they call NE, adults also gotta suffer? LOL
Which thinking and mature adult would allow themselves to be brainwashed by self serving govt propaganda? haha joke.
yr fren must have entered law enforcement govt agency?
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Originally posted by ☃®:
i worked in civil service before..the top civil servants i know there have really no choice, . Some of them think that the workforce is dominated by govt agencies since the Govt is the biggest employer. need to bring bak bread for family , what to do? i know some of them are nice people. They are also victims of the system, cornered and nowhere else to go . They have financial commitments to family , singles is to their parents, ect...
they do think that the the govt has become unpopular and ppl will vote them out
it will soon be difficult to do so when the immigrants gain voring rights in a few yrs time. zEtc after 2 elections that is. -
so got popcorn or some refreshments or not wiv movie???
if dun have those then its a total waste of effort n time!
might as well perform magic show where they got a spiral painted on a rotating disc and then you ask those newbies to stare at rotating spiral for 5 minutes and then tell senior guys what they see after that is an illusion or reality!
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I guess its prety dumb to do such a thing because u dont preach that the lion is a gentle animal to the mice living in its den because it obviously doesnt work.
Bu if u preach that the lion is gentle animal to those outside the den. it will work.
What they are conducting ( if confirmed) is not propaganda but National education program. Nothing wrong in it .
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
I have just heard from a friend who has newly joined the civil service that new staff are made to sit through sessions where the modern history of Singapore is shown on video......PAP's founding fathers.......racial riots....the turbulent 60s......communist threats etc etc.
Is this ethical, using propaganda to brainwash people to follow government dictates?
Use propaganda to indoctrinate people?
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that is why we have 'soical studies'
what is the whole point learning it?
learning how to soicalize or what?
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They should have programs in schools to train intellectual and critical capacity, not brainwash people using government propaganda to go and vote for PAP.
Fucking PAP and their fucking propaganda.
It is our job to go and expose PAP propaganda, wake those who are brainwashed by PAP fucking propaganda.
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u are getting it wrong here, its not propaganda, its national program to protect people from being brainwashed by harmful ideas on the internet. harmful ideas examples include racism hate speech, radical islam , ect.. but does not include the daily critical discussion in forums such as this one. No one wants a open mind contaminated with poison.
I dont think they are so dumb as to conduct propaganda programme in today;s INTERNET age because it will backfire more intensely than not to have conducted it at all.
Propaganda is found in Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia. In order for propaganda to work, the generation of citizens should have gone thru turmoil. The current generation dont know what is hardship. The generation which gone thru it lay dormant in sciety as they are too old or have passed on.
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Originally posted by ☃®:
I dont think they are so dumb as to conduct propaganda in today;s INTERNET age.
But all state media is PAP fucking government propaganda.
Don't you realise that?
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Originally posted by angel3070:
But all state media is PAP fucking government propaganda.
Don't you realise that?
i choose to see it another way, we cannot have too open a media because outsiders watching our country will to take a run on our financial and social system.
one example is the minibond saga where defective banking products were dumped in singapore. It is because our govt is too favoring of these financial corporations that these banks knew how to play the game because of our very free liberal economy.
The govt "positive" news is meant to attract investors, it also attracts "unwanted" attention. Our govt is also sort of corporation doing business and of cos the PR will have to be good. PAP is not a bad govt but their techniques draw both praise and criticisms.
and also govt news statistics + alternative online media will keep the troublemakers from the outside confused
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Originally posted by ☃®:
i choose to see it another way, we cannot have too open a media because outsiders watching our country will to take a run on our financial and social system.
What sort of fucking bullshit is that?
Don't talk PAP cock here leh.
PAP talk mother fucking bullshit that is one thing, but normal people shouldn't go and repeat PAP fucking cock.
That is brain dead already.
The brain go dead, not alive. Repeat PAP cock.
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Originally posted by ☃®:
and also govt news + alternative online media will keep the troublemakers from the outside confused
Confused until temasek GIC go and lose billions.
Confused until mother fucker lee Kuan Yew keep quiet on billions dollar losses to Singaporeans.
Old fucking cock sucker, that bastard Lee Kuan Yew.
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"While attracted to the "iron rice bowl" of Government Service, can a Civil Servant act independently, and not allow itself to be subjected to the Political Influence and Directions of its Political Master ?" Civil servants administer the policies fashioned by the ruling party (whether it be PAP or some other party in the future). So your question about civil servants acting independently... independent of what? The policies of the government? If civil servants are acting independently of current policies, then what's the point of being in the civil service? And I shld point out...civil servants administer policies by the GOVERNMENT,not by the PAP. We work for the 1% Opposition Party, 99% PAP. Perhaps, it is present in Singapore to a greater extent, but ruling parties around the world get to stamp more of their influence on current policies - see USA's policy change on stem cell research? So do Civil servants follow the political directions of the ruling party. Well, duh, hence the term civil servants. Man, in the private sector you follow the direction of your boss dont you? So in the civil service, the govt's your boss isnt it? Do you act independently of your boss? If so, kudos, love. It's a job man, when we put in our best, it's not always for the people for the people in mind; we're trying to do our jobs to the best of our abilities.Originally posted by Atobe:
In the First World Countries with mature societies that have high standards of political practices seperating the Executive, Legislative, Judiciary and the Civil Service, one can expect the various bodies of Government to support and check on each other, so as to prevent any one body from abusing the Citizens.Unfortunately, in countries with less mature political systems that feature politicians who are constantly insecure of their continued political relevance to their community, it is common to see all the various bodies of Government being dominated by a central political figure or entity.
While attracted to the "iron rice bowl" of Government Service, can a Civil Servant act independently, and not allow itself to be subjected to the Political Influence and Directions of its Political Master ?
As matters stand, with the Government being the biggest employer of Singaporeans, it is not surprising that most are members of the PAP - considering the size of the PAP general membership and privileged cardre corp.
With LKY displaying a Third World Political Mentality in his insistence to have 100% political dominance and control, will he allow a Civil Service to be independent, and to be headed by anyone that does not support the PAP ideology ?
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Originally posted by la luce nella piazza:
"While attracted to the "iron rice bowl" of Government Service, can a Civil Servant act independently, and not allow itself to be subjected to the Political Influence and Directions of its Political Master ?" Civil servants administer the policies fashioned by the ruling party (whether it be PAP or some other party in the future). So your question about civil servants acting independently... independent of what? The policies of the government? If civil servants are acting independently of current policies, then what's the point of being in the civil service? And I shld point out...civil servants administer policies by the GOVERNMENT,not by the PAP. We work for the 1% Opposition Party, 99% PAP. Perhaps, it is present in Singapore to a greater extent, but ruling parties around the world get to stamp more of their influence on current policies - see USA's policy change on stem cell research? So do Civil servants follow the political directions of the ruling party. Well, duh, hence the term civil servants. Man, in the private sector you follow the direction of your boss dont you? So in the civil service, the govt's your boss isnt it? Do you act independently of your boss? If so, kudos, love. It's a job man, when we put in our best, it's not always for the people for the people in mind; we're trying to do our jobs to the best of our abilities.
You are - of course - quite right with your understanding that a Civil Servant's role is to execute the tasks set for it by the decisions of the Government, which is formed by the elected political party.
Unfortunately, in the Singapore context, your understanding can be thrown out of the window, as in reality the role of the Civil Servant - ‘in the manner of its significance and role that was inherited from the British Administration' (*1) - has become merely puublic servants executing the decisions of the Ruling Political Party in Government.
The Civil Servants were supposed to be neutral and independent of party politics, and should not allow themselves to be drawn into any controversial political party.
Any such political issues involving inter-party matters are supposed to be addressed by the Political Appointees in the Government - i.e. the Ministers, Minister-of-State, or the Parliamentary Secretaries apointed to the Ministry.
The Parliamentary Secretaries are elected MPs, and are different from Permanent Secretary, who are career Senior Civil Servants - whose role is to provide expert advise to the Government on administrative issues.
In the Singapore Context, the Civil Service is no longer consulted, as after 52 years in continuous political office - the Ruling Party has its own "think-thank" and persons who are experienced with varied issues that the Ruling Party prefer to depend.
The Civil Service has become no more then an executor of decisions made by the Government, and with the dominance of the Ruling Political Party - the Civil Servants will seldom act as neutral party in conducting its relations with the Elected MP from the Alternative Political Parties.
The arrogance of the Civil Servants protected by the PAP Government can be seen in the ‘Press Secretary of the Ministry of National Development being an ordinary Civil Servant had even the temerity to make a direct response to reject MP Low Thia Kiang’s statement criticizing the PAP for allowing its non-elected Representative to announce the Neighborhood LUP program’. (*2)
For a truly independent Civil Service, one can only look at the wholly independent status of the Japanese Civil Servants, who will set the administrative policies for the Government, while the Government decide on the political agenda .
The Japanese model has taken the other extreme where "the tail wags the dog". - while in Singapore, the People being the master have lost control over the entire dog and its tail.
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Originally posted by la luce nella piazza:
"While attracted to the "iron rice bowl" of Government Service, can a Civil Servant act independently, and not allow itself to be subjected to the Political Influence and Directions of its Political Master ?" Civil servants administer the policies fashioned by the ruling party (whether it be PAP or some other party in the future). So your question about civil servants acting independently... independent of what? The policies of the government? If civil servants are acting independently of current policies, then what's the point of being in the civil service? And I shld point out...civil servants administer policies by the GOVERNMENT,not by the PAP. We work for the 1% Opposition Party, 99% PAP. Perhaps, it is present in Singapore to a greater extent, but ruling parties around the world get to stamp more of their influence on current policies - see USA's policy change on stem cell research? So do Civil servants follow the political directions of the ruling party. Well, duh, hence the term civil servants. Man, in the private sector you follow the direction of your boss dont you? So in the civil service, the govt's your boss isnt it? Do you act independently of your boss? If so, kudos, love. It's a job man, when we put in our best, it's not always for the people for the people in mind; we're trying to do our jobs to the best of our abilities.
i know they work independently. The top civil servants are given a set of guidelines. these guidelines are pretty ordinary and the civil servants just follow it. as long as they dont go against national policies, they are free to work independently, but the problem lies in the way they implemet the policies. Some are good at it, being creative while some are not. but they may be limited by constraints. The problems u see are the performance of these top civil servant and it has nothing to do with the government. the government acts upon the statistics the various ministries give them, sometimes these are based upoun fear the pressure to look good in the books of the govt ect.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
You are - of course - quite right with your understanding that a Civil Servant's role is to execute the tasks set for it by the decisions of the Government, which is formed by the elected political party.
Unfortunately, in the Singapore context, your understanding can be thrown out of the window, as in reality the role of the Civil Servant - ‘in the manner of its significance and role that was inherited from the British Administration' (*1) - has become merely puublic servants executing the decisions of the Ruling Political Party in Government.
The Civil Servants were supposed to be neutral and independent of party politics, and should not allow themselves to be drawn into any controversial political party.
Any such political issues involving inter-party matters are supposed to be addressed by the Political Appointees in the Government - i.e. the Ministers, Minister-of-State, or the Parliamentary Secretaries apointed to the Ministry.
The Parliamentary Secretaries are elected MPs, and are different from Permanent Secretary, who are career Senior Civil Servants - whose role is to provide expert advise to the Government on administrative issues.
In the Singapore Context, the Civil Service is no longer consulted, as after 52 years in continuous political office - the Ruling Party has its own "think-thank" and persons who are experienced with varied issues that the Ruling Party prefer to depend.
The Civil Service has become no more then an executor of decisions made by the Government, and with the dominance of the Ruling Political Party - the Civil Servants will seldom act as neutral party in conducting its relations with the Elected MP from the Alternative Political Parties.
The arrogance of the Civil Servants protected by the PAP Government can be seen in the ‘Press Secretary of the Ministry of National Development being an ordinary Civil Servant had even the temerity to make a direct response to reject MP Low Thia Kiang’s statement criticizing the PAP for allowing its non-elected Representative to announce the Neighborhood LUP program’. (*2)
For a truly independent Civil Service, one can only look at the wholly independent status of the Japanese Civil Servants, who will set the administrative policies for the Government, while the Government decide on the political agenda .
The Japanese model has taken the other extreme where "the tail wags the dog". - while in Singapore, the People being the master have lost control over the entire dog and its tail.
I agree, definitely, that SIngapore represents a most unique situation, which chiefly i believe, stems from having the ruling party having an almost 99% majority. Whether this makes it harder for checks to be implemented - well, probably. But on the question of government making decisions without consulting expert senior civil servants who are skilled in their fields....Do I believe senior civil servants are consulted? Yes I do. You don't expect me to believe that say, the government ministers will know automatically how many park connectors or trees are needed without a detailed report/proposal from NParks? However, it's true that political aims may sometimes infiltrate policies. That is regrettable and most lamentable but is not unique to Singapore. I am heartened that you do note the separation of the civil service and the government, which I believe, is an observation that still eludes many. -
Originally posted by la luce nella piazza:
I agree, definitely, that SIngapore represents a most unique situation, which chiefly i believe, stems from having the ruling party having an almost 99% majority. Whether this makes it harder for checks to be implemented - well, probably. But on the question of government making decisions without consulting expert senior civil servants who are skilled in their fields....Do I believe senior civil servants are consulted? Yes I do. You don't expect me to believe that say, the government ministers will know automatically how many park connectors or trees are needed without a detailed report/proposal from NParks? However, it's true that political aims may sometimes infiltrate policies. That is regrettable and most lamentable but is not unique to Singapore. I am heartened that you do note the separation of the civil service and the government, which I believe, is an observation that still eludes many.
While you and I may believe that the Civil Service is supposed to be separate from the Government - contrary to your belief that others are wrong in holding a different view, the situation in Singapore may not be what you and I believe it should be.As was already stated in my last response - how should we view the manner in which the ‘Press Secretary of the Ministry of National Development being an ordinary Civil Servant had even the temerity to make a direct response to reject MP Low Thia Kiang’s statement criticizing the PAP for allowing its non-elected Representative to announce the Neighborhood LUP program’. (*2) ?
The Singapore Civil Servants believe themselves to be The Government - as they are indeed part of the Government Body, but are primarily Civil Servants with a job to serve the civilian population.
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If I did not recall wrongly Chee Siok Chin was/is a teacher and hence a civil servant. She is definately not of the ruling party and hence it is not exactly right to lump all civil servants as an extension of the ruling party itself. We have to remember the teachers who taught us, the auntie that booked us and the police who protected us. These are civil servants but in no way party of the machinary that we call the ruling party. But perhaps this place is a good wake up call for all current civil servants and would be PS not to just parrot lines from the junta but to act independently as an administrative service.
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Originally posted by greengoblin:
If I did not recall wrongly Chee Siok Chin was/is a teacher and hence a civil servant. She is definately not of the ruling party and hence it is not exactly right to lump all civil servants as an extension of the ruling party itself. We have to remember the teachers who taught us, the auntie that booked us and the police who protected us. These are civil servants but in no way party of the machinary that we call the ruling party. But perhaps this place is a good wake up call for all current civil servants and would be PS not to just parrot lines from the junta but to act independently as an administrative service.
You are right that Chee Siok Chin was a teacher and hence a civil servant.So was Chee Soon Juan, who was a lecturer at the NUS Faculty of Psychology, with the Faculty Head in Dr Vasoo - who is a PAP Stalwart from the second batch of old guards.
Unlike, Sylvia Lim's experience, CSJ was invited by Dr Vasoo to join the PAP when he joined the Faculty after his returned from the USA, but CSJ declined the invitation, and became a surprise SDP candidate in the 1992 Election.
When one considers LKY's extreme reaction after the PAP lost two seats to JBJ and CST to enter the 77 seat Parliament during the 1984 Election, it will not take too much to understand the seige mentality of LKY to ensure a smooth ascension for his LHL to takeover from GCT within the next 10 years.
CSJ surprise entry into politics caused a sudden psychological uplift to the political scene, and created alarm in the PAP at a time when the 10 year ascension plan for LHL was already in the works, and this had to happen to LKY when he had thought that all credible threats to the succession plans were fixed after the previous election in 1988 - when the big guns from the oppositions were persecuted either into silent bankruptcy or permanent exile.
Sylvia Lim was a Singapore Police Inspector in 1991 where she served for three years and subsequently appointed staff officer to the Director of the CID.
Fortunately for her, ‘in March 2006, Temasek Polytechnic modified its policy, so that Lim did not need to resign from her lecturer position before she ran in the upcoming general election’ (*2).
The PAP must have learnt the lessons from the bad publicity on the PAP in the aftermath of the messy ways in which the heavy hands of the PAP were seen as too extreme even as the actions taken were petty death blows on CSJ.
The acts against CSJ were seen as simply to prevent him or any more credible persons from emerging and joining the Alternative Parties during the critical period for LHL's political future.
From 1992 to 2006, no qualified person came onto the political stage, and allowed LHL to have a smooth takeover of the PM's seat from GCT on 12 August 2004.