Singapore ranks 23rd on HDI
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
we have seen there are more homeless people in SG,
So do Oz!!
105,000 homeless in Oz.How many in SG?
@@@@@@@@@22
if u think public housing in oz must be landed houses.u are damn wrong...
Public housing in Flemington, Melbourne Photo: Craig Abraham
We rely too much on public housing
How can we eligible for Oz public housing?
mmmm
mkmm
There are no homeless and poor people in Singapore!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-guxHFyz2A
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
if oz is damn so good,why do the 80,000 leaving a year?
Half of them were born in oz some more!!
If you have read the whole article, it said that they left to more developed economies than Australia. All of them are not leaving Australia to become citizens in Singapore.
Major destinations are the developed economies of the United Kingdom, the European Union and North America. An increasing percentage of the outflow is to Asian countries where rapidly developing economies have experienced skills shortages.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
The video wasn't being very fair in the sense that while it gave a good portrayal of the poors in Singapore, it exaggerates the problem by hinting that it is widespread. Sure, I have seen a number of people with similar predicment as those shown in the pictures. But when I interacts with them, I found that a good number of them are not really as poor as portray.
For example, I have once stood and counted the income of a typical "begger" on average, if he/she is at Waterloo Street, he/she can make at least $20 per hour. More often than not, I calculate at least $30-40 per hour. That is more than my income.
The cardbox collectors may also not be all that poor. I have one relative and one neighbour in that business. My neighbour lives in a five-room flat and my relative has two sons working in the middle management of MNCs. They are doing it partially to kill them and partially because its good money (so they say, but I'm not too sure about the actualy income. I am however positive that at least my relative can be well supported as her sons give her money regularly and she gives my family tonic and presents regularly.)
The old cleaners, I'm too sure how representative they are about the poor. The cleaning aunty in my office is a retiree who earns about 500 plus a month by doing cleaning. She gets another 400 from CPF. Then her children give her some money every month too. This morning she showed me her new gold necklance that her daughter brought for her as a present. Sure, this particular cleaning lady may not represent all the other cleaning ladies, but the ratio would not be as bad as having all the people in these video to represent the entire Singapore.
Homeless people in Singapore actually have many options. Generally if we (as in people who actually go to the street and look out for these people) find them, we can quite easily find cheap accommodation for them. The HDB will always have rental homes at $40 per month and there are funds available to help them pay for the rents. The point being that the state has the ability and willingness to house these people. The difficulty is actually reaching out to everyone who is homeless and that I have encountered people who simply chooses to live on the street. BTW, the relative I mentioned above, her husband loves to sleep at his void deck like he is some homeless guy. And there is this auntie in my neighbourhood who would sleep in the void deck on one particular flat so she can wake up in time to feed the stray cats in the area but would go home and take a nap after her morning coffee.
The point is, I'm not saying there are no poor people in Singapore, but the percentage and predicment is not as bad as suggested by the video. At least I have not heard of anyone starving to death in Singapore. Have you? And what is the percentage of the poor in our nation? What is the percentage of the poor in the Scandavanian state and the US? When the video keeps bringing up "Swiss living standards" against the backdrop of a seemingly homeless guy, is it suggesting that there are no homeless person or poor people in Switzerland?
The video is useful as a reminder to the general public that not everyone is as blissful as we are, but more often than not, it is hijacked by those that simply hates the government and ruling party and utilised as a tool to further their political agenda. The very fact that it these political opportunist (not the photographers) are using these poors rather than be out on the street helping them suggest to me that if by some freak accident they are voted into power, the predicament of these poor may not be improved.
Oh, by the way, I do go out to the field and source out these poor people. And trust me, the real poors are not the ones on the street. The really bad cases are those hiding in their one room flat with one disaster after another striking against them. And unless people actively go and source them out, they will never get to appear on youtube.
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Originally posted by wisefool83:
The video wasn't being very fair in the sense that while it gave a good portrayal of the poors in Singapore, it exaggerates the problem by hinting that it is widespread. Sure, I have seen a number of people with similar predicment as those shown in the pictures. But when I interacts with them, I found that a good number of them are not really as poor as portray.
For example, I have once stood and counted the income of a typical "begger" on average, if he/she is at Waterloo Street, he/she can make at least $20 per hour. More often than not, I calculate at least $30-40 per hour. That is more than my income.
The cardbox collectors may also not be all that poor. I have one relative and one neighbour in that business. My neighbour lives in a five-room flat and my relative has two sons working in the middle management of MNCs. They are doing it partially to kill them and partially because its good money (so they say, but I'm not too sure about the actualy income. I am however positive that at least my relative can be well supported as her sons give her money regularly and she gives my family tonic and presents regularly.)
The old cleaners, I'm too sure how representative they are about the poor. The cleaning aunty in my office is a retiree who earns about 500 plus a month by doing cleaning. She gets another 400 from CPF. Then her children give her some money every month too. This morning she showed me her new gold necklance that her daughter brought for her as a present. Sure, this particular cleaning lady may not represent all the other cleaning ladies, but the ratio would not be as bad as having all the people in these video to represent the entire Singapore.
Homeless people in Singapore actually have many options. Generally if we (as in people who actually go to the street and look out for these people) find them, we can quite easily find cheap accommodation for them. The HDB will always have rental homes at $40 per month and there are funds available to help them pay for the rents. The point being that the state has the ability and willingness to house these people. The difficulty is actually reaching out to everyone who is homeless and that I have encountered people who simply chooses to live on the street. BTW, the relative I mentioned above, her husband loves to sleep at his void deck like he is some homeless guy. And there is this auntie in my neighbourhood who would sleep in the void deck on one particular flat so she can wake up in time to feed the stray cats in the area but would go home and take a nap after her morning coffee.
The point is, I'm not saying there are no poor people in Singapore, but the percentage and predicment is not as bad as suggested by the video. At least I have not heard of anyone starving to death in Singapore. Have you? And what is the percentage of the poor in our nation? What is the percentage of the poor in the Scandavanian state and the US? When the video keeps bringing up "Swiss living standards" against the backdrop of a seemingly homeless guy, is it suggesting that there are no homeless person or poor people in Switzerland?
The video is useful as a reminder to the general public that not everyone is as blissful as we are, but more often than not, it is hijacked by those that simply hates the government and ruling party and utilised as a tool to further their political agenda. The very fact that it these political opportunist (not the photographers) are using these poors rather than be out on the street helping them suggest to me that if by some freak accident they are voted into power, the predicament of these poor may not be improved.
Oh, by the way, I do go out to the field and source out these poor people. And trust me, the real poors are not the ones on the street. The really bad cases are those hiding in their one room flat with one disaster after another striking against them. And unless people actively go and source them out, they will never get to appear on youtube.
Yes, all beggars make $30-$40 dollars an hour, they love living in void decks and park benches in the night. $40 an hour for a month is like $7,714, that is even better than the after tax pay of some lawyers, doctors and engineers.
Who knows, maybe they have a $2 million dollar bungalow, they choose to sleep on park benches and void decks because they love the great outdoors. You won't get to hear much negative news from SPH or Mediacorp. Would you tell everybody in the world about your negative points. SPH and Mediacorp are all propaganda machines by our beloved PAP.
Yes, unless you actively search they out else they will never appear on youtube, means if the media is not reporting them, they don't exist at all. That's why LKY said there were no poor in Singapore, they have eradicated poverty in Singapore.
I for one knows of these sleeping on the street poor, this old man in his 70s or 80s ride a tricycle collecting cardboard boxes. He tells me times are really bad these days, he gets paid only 10 cents for a kilogram of cardboard box. I usually bring my cardboard box and drink cans to him for recycling. Who knows right, maybe he is a beggar earning $8,000 a month, has a bungalow in Goodman Road, he chose to sleep on the streets because he loves the great outdoors.
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I know there are some poor souls out there. Sometimes I give them some money or buy them a meal at the coffee shop.
Of course you can spot the "commercial beggars" if you live in the area long enough.
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Originally posted by Chew Bakar:
I know there are some poor souls out there. Sometimes I give them some money or buy them a meal at the coffee shop.
Of course you can spot the "commercial beggars" if you live in the area long enough.
Ironic that TS started a topic to bait pro and anti PAP camps, but got embroiled in it, now we know which side TS stands.
Don't forget, there are still those who are neither pro or anti PAP.
TS is generalising that all beggars out there make $8,000 a month, obviously he is trying to sway the facts to put the PAP in a better light.
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There is also an auntie selling tissue paper in Orchard Road, she was originally stationed in the tunnel leading to Isetan Scotts, but she has been chased away by officers (don't know if they are government related or employed by the shopping centers), she now plys her trade at the junction of HMV. How much does she earn an hour?
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Ironic that TS started a topic to bait pro and anti PAP camps, but got embroiled in it, now we know which side TS stands.
TS is generalising that all beggars out there make $8,000 a month, obviously he is trying to sway the facts to put the PAP in a better light.
Of course there are some professional. But I think they need some more upgrading skills to con me.
Doesn't the govt approve skill upgrading?
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Seriously, if Australia is ranked No.2, Singapore is ranked No.23 by the UN in terms of Human Development Index and lionnoisy showed us that Australia has lots of poverty. Then.......
What is the true extent of poverty in Singapore?
Spare a thought for the poor, the people who participate in this forum obviously has a computer, a job, a house and a lot of spare time. The poor won't have such luxuries at all.
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Originally posted by Chew Bakar:
Of course there are some professional. But I think they need some more upgrading skills to con me.
Doesn't the govt approve skill upgrading?
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The fact that Australia is such a vast country, most won't want to sit in front of a computer, they just go out to play.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Ironic that TS started a topic to bait pro and anti PAP camps, but got embroiled in it, now we know which side TS stands.
Don't forget, there are still those who are neither pro or anti PAP.
TS is generalising that all beggars out there make $8,000 a month, obviously he is trying to sway the facts to put the PAP in a better light.
No, the tread was not started to bait the Pro and Anti PAP. It was just sharing a report that was released on that particular day along with a satire comment on the partisan nature of the posters in this forum (e.g, if you don't join me in saying something bad about PAP then you must be Pro PAP kind of partisan or vice-versa).
Most people around here already knew which side I am on. You might have just found out because you joined in 09 and I was more active in the earlier years.
I am not generalizing that beggars make $8000 a month, I am saying that I don't like political opportunist to hijack the poor as a form of political chips. If you want to make a video for them, use it to inform the public so that we can help them as a society, not simply to exaggerate the problem so as to nit pick your political opponents.
<quote> Spare a thought for the poor, the people who participate in this forum obviously has a computer, a job, a house and a lot of spare time. The poor won't have such luxuries at all. </quote>
I emphasized that the poor that we see on the street are not the only poor, nor are they the most serious case. So what I'm saying is not just to "spare a thought for the poor", do something for them!
There is a difference in speaking up for the poor and making use of the poor.
You guys want to mud sling each other? Go ahead! Want to address poverty as an issue? Sure, by all means. But use figures and statistics rather than pictures and videos.