You can't withdraw shit from your CPF
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Wow!!! Charlize and deepak, you both so good at foretelling wan ah???!!!
Please tell me what would be the stockmarket like in 10 years time too please.
I wanna bet on it. OR better still, vote you both in parliament so that you both will manage the economy, with such fantastic and out of this world foresight.
I will pay you peanuts now for the consultation. And hey, you know what they say about paying with peanuts. You both most certainly deserve it. No need to thank me in advance.
If your prediction fail, oh well, guess i will have to live on bananas...for believing in unevolved primates.
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Originally posted by maxtor:
Back to my attempt at explaining this whole CPF thing -
The example I have given was an ideal one - where one has enough money in his/her CPF account to put aside for the Minimum Sum Scheme and still have cash to withdraw.
However the truth is, alot of us do not have this kind of money in our CPF. Why is this so? Remember - alot of us use our CPF to purchase our property (and property prices are very high in Singapore). Another reason is, we only contribute CPF from our monthly salary of up to S$4500. I will use an example to illustrate this.
Say for example you are making $4500 a month, your CPF contribution is :-
$4500 x 20% = $900 ( your CPF contribution)
$4500 x 14.5% = $652.50 (Employer's contribution)
Total CPF Contribution = $900 + $652.50 = $1552.50
This $1552.50 will be split between your CPF-OA, CPF-SA and your CPF-MS. This percentage differs with age. For more information on allocation rates, see
http://mycpf.cpf.gov.sg/Employers/Gen-Info/cpf-Contri/ContriRa.htm
EVEN if you make $5000 a month, $6000 a month, $20 000 a month, your CPF contribution stays at $1552.50. This is to reduce the burden on employer contribution. Now imagine if your property cost $400 000 (Assume: HDB Resale 4 Rm in mature estate), how much will you be left with after paying for your property?
So a more realistic scenario for your CPF Account when you are 55 years should look abit like this -
CPF-OA CPF-SA CPF-MS
$50 000 $30 000 $30 000
With the above figures, how are you going to make up your Minimum Sum? The answer is - you are allowed to use your property to make what is known as a property pledge.
Using the above example - a 4 Rm HDB Resale flat at $400 000, you are allowed to use 50% of the Minimum Sum as a property pledge.
Since you can use 50% of $117 000 = $58 500 as a property pledge, your CPF account should now look like this :-
CPF-OA CPF-SA CPF-MA CPF-RA
$21 500 $0 $30 000 $58 500 (property pledge)
$30 000 (CPF-SA)
$28 500 (CPF-OA)
This mans that you can withdraw $21 500 as cash when you turn 55 this year (2009).
bro nice work.. for your information you forgetten interest rate..
P.S : even you get 4% interest per annua it will not be able to cover the hose interest. reason being the figure difference
EG : $ 400 000 interest @ 2.6% cumulative by then you finish pay up interest is about $150 000
where your 4% in CPPF is base on per annua
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Originally posted by kalez:
bro nice work.. for your information you forgetten interest rate..
P.S : even you get 4% interest per annua it will not be able to cover the hose interest. reason being the figure difference
EG : $ 400 000 interest @ 2.6% cumulative by then you finish pay up interest is about $150 000
where your 4% in CPPF is base on per annua
Sorry, i tried reading your msg over and over but i don't quite understand the context you refer to. maybe im stupid.
i understand that you are trying to point out that 2.6% of $400 000 is more than 4% of $100 000. But that's about it.
kindly enlighten me.
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
CPF life has good interest rates no doubt but they are non-guaranteed. And this CPF life plan doesnt factor inflation into it. $500 today is peanuts 30 years later.
I would just like to clarify that for alot of financial plans, whether investment or insurance, alot of the returns/interest rates are non-guaranteed.
if you have any insurance policies or investment policies, take it out for a read when u're bored and u will see what i mean.
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inflation has been factored in. in a way the interest rates they give you are a counter to the inflation rates. it is good compared to private sectors but catch is you dont really see it until later on. for the basic and balanced plans.
the interest private sectors give for annuities really cannot match up to inflation.
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maxtor:
no doubt a lot of insurance policies do not guarantee the rates of return but these financial institution are after all profit making entities.
We have 4 million Singapore and PRs who contribute to the CPF fund, surely they have the leverage to offer guaranteed rates for their citizens? Our basic CPF interest rates belong to the 90s era. Inflation has gone up many times since.
bladez87:
if u say that inflation has been factored in because the interest rate is good, then surely that is your own interpretation and not CPF's stand? How can a payout which is constant for life have factored in inflation?
Annuities in the insurance industry have always been rubbish plans based on the extremely low interest rates and high age for breaking even at the principal amount. The only selling point they can ever fall back on is "you won't die broke". Can't compare a national plan with these private insurance especially when citizenry interests are at stake.
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Originally posted by maxtor:
Sorry, i tried reading your msg over and over but i don't quite understand the context you refer to. maybe im stupid.
i understand that you are trying to point out that 2.6% of $400 000 is more than 4% of $100 000. But that's about it.
kindly enlighten me.
the point is the loan is interest on interest. like loan sharkthe 4% per aunum that CPF giving is peanuts only... so we might be not be able to withdraw 21K when we hit 55
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dp
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Originally posted by Rock^Star:
bladez87:
if u say that inflation has been factored in because the interest rate is good, then surely that is your own interpretation and not CPF's stand? How can a payout which is constant for life have factored in inflation?
Annuities in the insurance industry have always been rubbish plans based on the extremely low interest rates and high age for breaking even at the principal amount. The only selling point they can ever fall back on is "you won't die broke". Can't compare a national plan with these private insurance especially when citizenry interests are at stake.
there annuity plans that are so called inflation adjusted, just that the initial payout is low and gradually increases per year.
example of inflation adjusted annuity of sum 600.
1st year, 100, 2nd year 200, 3rd 300.
example of fixed annuity payout of sum 600.
200 200 200.
lets put it this way. you put in the minimum sum of 106k. if the sum of all payouts and refund is 106k then yes, your minimum sum has not factored in inflation. however , if u do calculate the payouts , you will arrive at a sum that is higher than 106k. because of the interest given. the interest will result in a higher amount of bequest for your beneficiaries. and yes, this is my own interpretation.
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well how much payout eventually also depends on how long u live right.....and cpf life's payout is $300 today, $300 20 years later. No inflation factored in.
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where got 20 years later de...you think government will just wait and do nothing de meh. surely adjustments will be made like the minimum sum needed. and the fact is, everything is on paper now, how it will work out in future nobody knows until it starts. so no point debating so much about it since it is compulsory.
and i did mention that the payout AND REFUNDS should be more than 106k cause of interest. not just payout. if you have doubts about the payout and refunds read my post on the previous page.
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It would be interesting to know % stats for people choosing the 4 options.
I wonder if they will come out with the actual figures for public scrutiny.
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I for one will be in the 5th group of people, for sure.
Throw citizenship (what kind of citizenshit is this anyway?), withdraw cpf and leave.
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Originally posted by Detached:
I for one will be in the 5th group of people, for sure.
Throw citizenship (what kind of citizenshit is this anyway?), withdraw cpf and leave.
Not many people have this option.
Those who can migrate will likely be the mobile professionals who studied overseas and compared life in sg versus life overseas.
Majority of the people don't have the luxury of this.
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Originally posted by charlize:
Not many people have this option.
Those who can migrate will likely be the mobile professionals who studied overseas and compared life in sg versus life overseas.
Majority of the people don't have the luxury of this.
Not necessary 'studied' overseas, but majority of the migrants will likely be skilled professionals - white-collar.But you're right to say that most people don't have the luxury of leaving the country, give it a few years, and hope people will wise up... I'd rather 20 years of anarchy than to live under the oppression of some ruling party.. pui..
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Originally posted by Detached:
Not necessary 'studied' overseas, but majority of the migrants will likely be skilled professionals - white-collar.But you're right to say that most people don't have the luxury of leaving the country, give it a few years, and hope people will wise up... I'd rather 20 years of anarchy than to live under the oppression of some ruling party.. pui..
I would assume those who did study overseas would have been able to compare living overseas and living in singapore more meaningfully than say someone who lived and studied her whole life in singapore.
As it is, a lot of students based overseas have always been reported that they would prefer continuing to stay overseas after they graduated citing better job opportunities, better pay, better country environment, nicer weather, more diverse culture etc etc
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Originally posted by bladez87:
where got 20 years later de...you think government will just wait and do nothing de meh. surely adjustments will be made like the minimum sum needed. and the fact is, everything is on paper now, how it will work out in future nobody knows until it starts. so no point debating so much about it since it is compulsory.
and i did mention that the payout AND REFUNDS should be more than 106k cause of interest. not just payout. if you have doubts about the payout and refunds read my post on the previous page.
It's a contract and can it be reviewed as and when possible? The principal amount remains the same. And if you say adjustments will be made to the minimum sum, that is already a surety but only for the future and new entries into CPF life.If we talk about payout, it is understood that the rate of return has been factored in. No annuity will indicate otherwise. Well, I leave u to ur own interpretation.
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Originally posted by charlize:
I would assume those who did study overseas would have been able to compare living overseas and living in singapore more meaningfully than say someone who lived and studied her whole life in singapore.
As it is, a lot of students based overseas have always been reported that they would prefer continuing to stay overseas after they graduated citing better job opportunities, better pay, better country environment, nicer weather, more diverse culture etc etc
Then those people who travel frequently also can what2011, vote wisely
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Let's look at it this way.
No system is perfect.
Do you prefer an egalitarian society whereby a worker pays 40% tax ontop of various VAT/GST, and never see a dime returned when you grow old?
or
Contribute 20% to a fund pool, and when you grow old, you get the total sum + interest back? And such funds in the meantime can help provide for social spending?
Mankind is not facing extinction, and national administrators will always seek ways and means to provide for all, so that none gets left behind, provided everyone in a society do their part, each generation contributing meaningfully till they retire, followed by the next.
Therefore, think wisely. Whatever country one goes to, there is NO FREE LUNCH. At least in your home, you get to decide the dishes as a consensual majority, elsewhere you have no say in whatever dishes served.
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Originally posted by Detached:
Then those people who travel frequently also can what2011, vote wisely
"If" you get to vote.
People speculate that it might be end of this year or early 2010.
No need to wait till 2011.
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Originally posted by charlize:
I would assume those who did study overseas would have been able to compare living overseas and living in singapore more meaningfully than say someone who lived and studied her whole life in singapore.
As it is, a lot of students based overseas have always been reported that they would prefer continuing to stay overseas after they graduated citing better job opportunities, better pay, better country environment, nicer weather, more diverse culture etc etc
Some of the stupid ones end up much worse. They will erroneously think that overseas means more taxes, expensive goods & services. They should look at overseas life from a foreign citizen's perspective. I do agree that taxes, goods and services do cost more, but then the citizen also made much more compared to Singaporeans.
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where got pay 40% tax and not a dime returned? lol. Ironically, it's the system of paying lesser tax that sees one's money locked in till death.
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To each her own lah.
Some people like Singapore the way it is, some people don't.
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so many go australia, usa and europe and dowan to come back. Those below 20 come back because of NS, those who have finished NS find the quality of life there better.
Official stats is that less than a 1000 give up citizenship every year. That is like 0.003% of the Singaporean populace. Why is the govt so worried? I suspect the actual figure to be much higher.
Having lived overseas for 2 years and back in sg now, I am one of those waiting for an opportunity soon. I believe many more think like me.
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Originally posted by charlize:
To each her own lah.
Some people like Singapore the way it is, some people don't.
udon the best.
Like Singapore because of the local food and easy accessibility. Throw udon in a communist country, give good Singapore cuisine operating 24 hours a day, he/she will be satisfied.