If you are leaving Singapore, where will you go?!
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
There are different levels of passion and it does not take the deepest of passions to convince oneself to pick a home. Thus, my unwillingness to pick up a rifle is not an indication of my devotion to my choice. Put in another way, I love my family more than I love my country, I think most people are the same, and I will be more inclined to risk my life for the former than the latter.
If you are comparing a PR and a citizen, why not compare a Minister and a commoner? Is that not a more relevant comparison? They feed off our money, and are our leaders right?
And will yor fight, serioously?
eh, i dont see how your comparison works. Cause a minister and a commoner dont have almost equal or better opportunities or rights. Flaw there.
In a war, if im most certain, well.. you'd be compelled to fight, regardless of your choice. but thanks anyway for your opinion. And yes, i do understand that you'd prefer your family. Cmon. who doesnt! seriously. But you should be aware that in the case of a war, almost or all NSmen will be deployed, as sg troops are seriously small in number.
About me? No. Ive revoked my citizenship and im 17. TO be frank, i feel no sense of belonging or loyalty whatsoever towards sg. I have my reasons for my choices, and im sure that you do too.
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ya got no choice..........if u dont fight ,,,surrounding countries will take all yer assets n leave you stranded high n dry.
if u fight....gud verk!u get a medal n some caffeine tablets.but if u do lose a leg or arm in battle,no insurance coverage in SAF covers u enogh fer that loss.a few k n sayonara.
but i fight because i feel a thrill in it all for some perturbed strange reason due to my exposure to violent war movies in the then SBC tv.it had more info whern i was a kid.they had war psychology documentary every afternoon on soldiers.and then in the evening they had war movies n then afyer years of exposure to these kinda movies from a 5yr old.....i feel more at home in a wartime singapore than a peacetime singapore.
So there!
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Originally posted by OHSheet:
eh, i dont see how your comparison works. Cause a minister and a commoner dont have almost equal or better opportunities or rights. Flaw there.
In a war, if im most certain, well.. you'd be compelled to fight, regardless of your choice. but thanks anyway for your opinion. And yes, i do understand that you'd prefer your family. Cmon. who doesnt! seriously. But you should be aware that in the case of a war, almost or all NSmen will be deployed, as sg troops are seriously small in number.
About me? No. Ive revoked my citizenship and im 17. TO be frank, i feel no sense of belonging or loyalty whatsoever towards sg. I have my reasons for my choices, and im sure that you do too.
See this..., your Ministers are your leaders who tell you to contribute to your country and remember to pay your taxes, CPF's and vote for the PAP. The people of Singapore have been doing this for 44 years, and when war comes and by some people's definition of patriotism (dun know if it is yours), one need's to fight to prove his/ her love for the country, and why are Ministers different? Should they not lead by example?
And if you have revoked your citizenship, why are you questioning a Singaporean if he/ she will fight for the country when you yourself have already abandon it?! This question is a good one, but it is better to be asked by someone who is still a Singaporean. Why? All answers are irrelevant to you, except maybe, for your curiosity.
Yes the Ministers are different becuase they have more choices and previleges than a commoner, and therefore when war comes, for the same reason, they should charge first by virtue of their role as leaders. Leaders lead, and that means from the front. You are young and I commend you for attending to these sites. I am sure you can appreciate more of what is being discussed here in a few years.
If you like these topics, I highly recommend reading Atobe's posts. I have benefited much, I am in my 40's.
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
See this..., your Ministers are your leaders who tell you to contribute to your country and remember to pay your taxes, CPF's and vote for the PAP. The people of Singapore have been doing this for 44 years, and when war comes and by some people's definition of patriotism (dun know if it is yours), one need's to fight to prove his/ her love for the country, and why are Ministers different? Should they not lead by example?
And if you have revoked your citizenship, why are you questioning a Singaporean if he/ she will fight for the country when you yourself have already abandon it?! This question is a good one, but it is better to be asked by someone who is still a Singaporean. Why? All answers are irrelevant to you, except maybe, for your curiosity.
Yes the Ministers are different becuase they have more choices and previleges than a commoner, and therefore when war comes, for the same reason, they should charge first by virtue of their role as leaders. Leaders lead, and that means from the front. You are young and I commend you for attending to these sites. I am sure you can appreciate more of what is being discussed here in a few years.
If you like these topics, I highly recommend reading Atobe's posts. I have benefited much, I am in my 40's.
precisely the point which ive been trying to make in your 1st para. agree with that 100%. Somehow, previous paragraphs show otherwise. maybe misinterpretation or somehow, but besides that, yes i do agree.
ok. with regards to the 2nd para.
I asked you on that topic as you stated sg as your "home", and by that definition, i wished to know more about what it meant to you. simple. If you can define sg as the place which you seek shelter in, im sure you can further explain by what terms those would mean to you. outright and straightforward.
yes. And i do read Atobe's posts. Maybe you might consider reading up online news and blogs. Cause they may also provide an insightful aspect to the political/economic and labour landscape of sg.
eg. theonlinecitizen.com
eg. temasekreview.com
+ many more. Dont wish to pull them all out. but im sure that Ah Chia had stated them in a post before
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so let me clarify some stuff. despite what you've stated in your 1st para..
your Ministers are your leaders who tell you to contribute to your country and remember to pay your taxes, CPF's and vote for the PAP. The people of Singapore have been doing this for 44 years, and when war comes and by some people's definition of patriotism (dun know if it is yours), one need's to fight to prove his/ her love for the country, and why are Ministers different? Should they not lead by example?
you are still accepting towards the governance in sg, and as such, will still accept this as a compromise in the "love-hate-relationship" which you previously mentioned? So id assume that you have a good tolerance level?
Its the precise question which people ponder about, why ministers are "above" the commoners.
But in my case of my previous comparison, which you might have misinterpreted. I contrasted PRs as to citizens. And the difference / advantages between their treatment/ rights and opportunities. On the basis that they are almost if not similar! However, it applies as a reverse and OTHERWISE in the case of commoners compared to ministers. Please note this, for i fear that you might have gotten the wrong message.
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Originally posted by OHSheet:
so let me clarify some stuff. despite what you've stated in your 1st para..
your Ministers are your leaders who tell you to contribute to your country and remember to pay your taxes, CPF's and vote for the PAP. The people of Singapore have been doing this for 44 years, and when war comes and by some people's definition of patriotism (dun know if it is yours), one need's to fight to prove his/ her love for the country, and why are Ministers different? Should they not lead by example?
you are still accepting towards the governance in sg, and as such, will still accept this as a compromise in the "love-hate-relationship" which you previously mentioned? So id assume that you have a good tolerance level?
Its the precise question which people ponder about, why ministers are "above" the commoners.
But in my case of my previous comparison, which you might have misinterpreted. I contrasted PRs as to citizens. And the difference / advantages between their treatment/ rights and opportunities. On the basis that they are almost if not similar! However, it applies as a reverse and OTHERWISE in the case of commoners compared to ministers. Please note this, for i fear that you might have gotten the wrong message.
You have posted two comments and I will attend to them in a single post.
HOME is a place where your loyalty is attached to, a place that you feel dearly and will contribute in anyway feasible to better it, and it is a place you tend to raise a family and/ or live for most of your lifetime.
I have read your paragraph (in red) twice and I still dun understand your question, or is it a question at all? I believe if you wanna compare apple with orange, I would think comparing apple with apple is more appropriate. Ministers are Singaporeans, and I wanna know will they will go as far as a regular Singaporeans or further.
You still care for Singapore dun you? Not what you stated that you have no emotional attachments to Singapore.
But I would ask all reading, PR's could probably be future fellow citizens, and as long as they are contributing to Singapore, why discriminate? Some people here hold a red IC/ Spore Passport, and do they contribute as much because of their natural identity? Or they complain more and do less/ nothing for the nation?
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
You have posted two comments and I will attend to them in a single post.
HOME is a place where your loyalty is attached to, a place that you feel dearly and will contribute in anyway feasible to better it, and it is a place you tend to raise a family and/ or live for most of your lifetime.
I have read your paragraph (in red) twice and I still dun understand your question, or is it a question at all? I believe if you wanna compare apple with orange, I would think comparing apple with apple is more appropriate. Ministers are Singaporeans, and I wanna know will they will go as far as a regular Singaporeans or further.
You still care for Singapore dun you? Not what you stated that you have no emotional attachments to Singapore.
But I would ask all reading, PR's could probably be future fellow citizens, and as long as they are contributing to Singapore, why discriminate? Some people here hold a red IC/ Spore Passport, and do they contribute as much because of their natural identity? Or they complain more and do less/ nothing for the nation?
eh? para in red? the one in black. not in red. ya, its a question btw. uh. and its alright if you dont get it.
I no longer have any attachments to sg, as ive stated, and the reasons for bringing up the topic, are being stated in my previous post. (eh. please do tell me if you understand it)
ok.. basically, ive stated the answers to your questions in my previous posts. and i do hope that you take some time to read through them, because i do, for your posts. thanks again.
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and yes, there isnt any way to compare apples with apples in this case. As there isnt any common ground for PRs and citizens except for the fact of their rights, opportunities, and welfare. So if you'd consider that a common ground, i am, in your terms, already comparing apples with apples.
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wait.. okok. i see. found the para in red.
But in my case of my previous comparison, which you might have misinterpreted. I contrasted PRs as to citizens. And the difference / advantages between their treatment/ rights and opportunities. On the basis that they are almost if not similar! However, it applies as a reverse and OTHERWISE in the case of commoners compared to ministers. Please note this, for i fear that you might have gotten the wrong message.
yes. It isnt a question. I thought that you should take note of it, as you might've been getting the wrong message from me.
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Originally posted by OHSheet:
wait.. okok. i see. found the para in red.
But in my case of my previous comparison, which you might have misinterpreted. I contrasted PRs as to citizens. And the difference / advantages between their treatment/ rights and opportunities. On the basis that they are almost if not similar! However, it applies as a reverse and OTHERWISE in the case of commoners compared to ministers. Please note this, for i fear that you might have gotten the wrong message.
yes. It isnt a question. I thought that you should take note of it, as you might've been getting the wrong message from me.
Dear Oh Sheet,
I think it is relatively more difficult for us to continue this conversation because we are looking at things from different perspectives. No disrespect to you, but our background and age difference is just too huge.
The words "Choice" and "Home" are very different to you and I. For example, you mentioned "you have your reasons and I have mine" in our choices of citizenship. Was there a choice for you? I doubt it. I would think your parents migrated and you had to tag along. You acted out of "no choice" and I choose to return home.
You also question Singaporean's willingness to fight for Singapore when you have already given up your RIGHT to fight for Singapore.
You asked me for my definition of HOME when you have given up yours.
Being able to read and thinking you understand the English words written is different from feeling it deeply for having gone throough life filled with up's & down's. If you are like Angel7030 thinking he/ she knows about stuffs because of the experience of the father, well, it is not the same also.
I can anticipate your reactions being an enthusiatic teenager with some confidence that you know something about this world, but it is not what you think. You should continue with the persuit of your passion to understand about politics, economics & society.
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
Dear Oh Sheet,
I think it is relatively more difficult for us to continue this conversation because we are looking at things from different perspectives. No disrespect to you, but our background and age difference is just too huge.
The words "Choice" and "Home" are very different to you and I. For example, you mentioned "you have your reasons and I have mine" in our choices of citizenship. Was there a choice for you? I doubt it. I would think your parents migrated and you had to tag along. You acted out of "no choice" and I choose to return home.
You also question Singaporean's willingness to fight for Singapore when you have already given up your RIGHT to fight for Singapore.
You asked me for my definition of HOME when you have given up yours.
Being able to read and thinking you understand the English words written is different from feeling it deeply for having gone throough life filled with up's & down's. If you are like Angel7030 thinking he/ she knows about stuffs because of the experience of the father, well, it is not the same also.
I can anticipate your reactions being an enthusiatic teenager with some confidence that you know something about this world, but it is not what you think. You should continue with the persuit of your passion to understand about politics, economics & society.
haha. thanks again lionoasis.
Ya. you've nailed it there. Im guessing that our age gap is just far to big. so we'd see things on a different level.
Please. Im in no way like angel7030. Infact, ive been trying to be constructive and objective in my arguments. which i put in thought and substance into.no offence to you angel.
I read up alot, on news, articles and related issues. Hahaa. TBH, ive got not much interest in politics or economics, my heart lies with sciences, and thats what i wish to pursue. I read up on articles which are politically related just for leisure.
well. all the best! and keep your interesting questions/articles coming.
haha. have a nice day~~ -
Originally posted by OHSheet:
haha. thanks again lionoasis.
Ya. you've nailed it there. Im guessing that our age gap is just far to big. so we'd see things on a different level.
Please. Im in no way like angel7030. Infact, ive been trying to be constructive and objective in my arguments. which i put in thought and substance into.no offence to you angel.
I read up alot, on news, articles and related issues. Hahaa. TBH, ive got not much interest in politics or economics, my heart lies with sciences, and thats what i wish to pursue. I read up on articles which are politically related just for leisure.
well. all the best! and keep your interesting questions/articles coming.
haha. have a nice day~~Well you are not Angel7030 for sure, that I am certain....
Thanks for your kind understanding, and you are brighter than me, wasn't even thinking this much when I was at your age.
Cheers!
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oh yep.
I had a choice. I chose to revoke my citizenship. That choice is mine, as the rest of my family are still hold a sg citizenship.
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
Well you are not Angel7030 for sure, that I am certain....
Thanks for your kind understanding, and you are brighter than me, wasn't even thinking this much when I was at your age.
Cheers!
All the best to you too! haha. i enjoy participating in these kinda issues as the questions you raise are really thought evoking.
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Originally posted by OHSheet:
All the best to you too! haha. i enjoy participating in these kinda issues as the questions you raise are really thought evoking.
Thanks, least I can do for the time being while I am still outside Singapore. Just curious, how can you revoke your citizenship while under 21? What are the requirements to earn that right? -
Originally posted by Lionoasis:
Thanks, least I can do for the time being while I am still outside Singapore. Just curious, how can you revoke your citizenship while under 21? What are the requirements to earn that right?Just as he said your questions are thought evoking...whatever that mean>
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
Just as he said your questions are thought evoking...whatever that mean>
Well, it was a friendly gesture. -
I like how lionoasis point out...and I have to agree some of the things he point out. I am also one of the guys who prefer to stay in sg. But I do not see ppl who migrate as quitters. Its all about free will, and I have to say u can make a choice if u dont like it here...do it while u are single :)
Cheers
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Originally posted by Lionoasis:
Thanks, least I can do for the time being while I am still outside Singapore. Just curious, how can you revoke your citizenship while under 21? What are the requirements to earn that right?depends on the situation. by right, you arent allowed to revoke. But like i said, if the govt request back for your passport, they'll notify you that its revoked.
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best oh sheet revoke,
not worth the terror n heartpain agony of going thru national service.
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Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:
best oh sheet revoke,
not worth the terror n heartpain agony of going thru national service.
revoke already lo.
I revoke because i wish to further pursue my studies, and mindef dont let me.
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OK...JUST AS I THOUGHT SO..THEY USE THE ARMY AS AN EXCUSE AGAIN...TO MAKE IT TOUGH FER FOLKS.
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YAH...ARMY TRAINING PROBABLY IS SCARY TO YER PARENTS AS IT IS TO YA. EVEN THOUGH YER FOLKS WENT THRU IT.
I HAD TO LIE TO ME FOLKS BOUT IT ALL.SAD......LIE TO PARENTS THAT NS IS SAFE.
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HEY SPEEDSTER,
MOST SPORE PR FROM INDIA MIGRATE TO OZ FROM SPORE WITH THEIR ENTIRE FAMILY OF 3 CHILDREN WIFE ETC ETC.
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Originally posted by OHSheet:
Have you wondered why the health-care system is top notch, how about the fund? Where does the govt get them from.?
Cost of living low compared to other developed countries? Surveys show otherwise. In a recent survey posted on TOC, it shows the buying power of singaporean workers are among the lowerst as compared to other developed countries. (its a survey about the amt of working hours req to purchase an ipod, and other grocery prices, compared with other countries.)
Lastly.. transport. Ok. what you've stated seriously makes no sense at all.
You can buy a chrysler 300C 2nd hand at just 3 years old for $9000, and do note that you keep the car for life, instead of in sg, after 10 years, it'll most probably be in the dump. Try doing that in sg.
Woah, why would anyone in their right mind want to buy a Chrylser???
And similarly, I personally won't buy a car in SG for the reason you mention, dumping a good car after only 10 years. But the public transport system is pretty good in SG for old ppl, with buses, MRT, and taxis. Come over here to the US, and you see all the 80+ year old drivers who are SO dangerous weaving here and there. You're not supposed to be drinving when you're so old...but they don't have a choice since the public transportation system sucks here.
The standard of living in SG is WAY cheap compared to developed countries, especially if you take out te cost of cars. HDB flats are still cheap. Look at the food and groceries prices, way lower than other developed countries like Japan, US, Europe. And that's a fact. Surveys are always manipulated, but I've shopped in many developed countries before, and everyday necessities are so much more expensive than in SG.