I have been contemplating that issue. it would depends on how you look at life and your needs. I have narrowed down to a few countries but no ang mo countries.
Originally posted by Lionoasis:On the contrary, I have been married for 12 years, and family life is my top priority.
My feelings towards my country is because Singapore IS my country. As the Russians like to put it - motherland. It is a love-hate relationship. I have no doubt whatsoever that our country has problems, as I have mentioned repeatedly in my forums, but will I change my mother because she nags at me, or disapproves my simplest of requests, or fail to appreciate the sacrifices I mak for her, NO. I think the basis of ALL relationships is compassion and forward-looking, why should our take on our country be any different?
Am I a big fan of PAP, or LKY or LHL or GIC? Hell NO. I just choose not to complain that much and seek to understand and if possible something about it, but not getting myself politically involved.
Again, I choose to return home not because Singapore is so perfect, it is because it is MY COUNTRY, that's all. No need to be called patriotic, just a regular joe who chooses to call this place my home.
ok.. that pretty much answers what i've asked.
so.. again. i'd infer from what you state, of sg being your homeland, and something you'd refer to as a mother. yup?
alright. i understand it perfectly. But i'll tell you why some are leaving, in terms of your perspective.
Well, this "mother" has been illtreating the citizens, or what you might consider as abuse/ neglect. So, it might be the case that wise or fortunate enough ones are able to break free of this abuse, to some place else better.(i dont wish to bring out the articles and cases here, im sure they've been posted by other sgf forumers)
Have you also considered that it may be your shortsightedness in realising the fact that citizens do not disapprove the leaders, but infact with the way the leaders treat the citizens? And that spurs feelings of being alienated from the country, so they'd rather migrate since they feel as outcasts.
iceland.....fulla eskimos but with ang mo government
must my reasons be political? of being illtreated as a citizen? of being neglected as a citizen? can they not be of personal preference?
if i am a nature lover, i would leave the country because of its lack of nature, its inexistent seasons, its abundance of concrete facade... i would love to live in a house, a proper one; not one of those pathetic apartment with windows that faces my neighbour's kitchen; a proper house, close to nature, by the sea, perhaps.
if i am an avid driver, i would leave the country because of its regulations. I don't blame the government, but circumstance. I would hate paying outrageous sums of money (which includes the COE, radio taxes, and such) for a Subaru Impreza then have nowhere to drive to because it takes a mere hour to travel across the width of this island. Or own a 4WD i cannot use off road.
and what if i hate the country's culture? what if i hate the monotonous cycle repeated every day? i hate being packed like sardines in a can when i go to work; i hate seeing people not giving up their seats - and no one doing anything about it; i hate it when singaporeans accidentally tread on your foot and not apologize, but pretend as if nothing has happened; i hate going home, then realize that singapore-produced dramas are cmi and there's nothing i can do about it because the network is just another monopoly; i hate bringing work home because competition with this new china-imported employee - a colleague in the same department, no less - is so stif; i hate getting beaten to college scholarships by a math genius from india.
but this is my country after all; do i go ahead on the pursuit of happiness or should i stay and be loyal?
i appreciate where i come from, so i will make the most out of it while i'm still here, until an opportunity comes by which requires me to venture outside
to vendettus,
if u pulled apin outa grenade and it doesnt blow up,,,,,would u wanna stand there fer ages questioning if u should keep it ,throw it away or put it back in yer pocket?follow your natural action thats safest to u n everyone around you.
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:to vendettus,
if u pulled apin outa grenade and it doesnt blow up,,,,,would u wanna stand there fer ages questioning if u should keep it ,throw it away or put it back in yer pocket?follow your natural action thats safest to u n everyone around you.
the question at the end was a rhetorical one.
;)
well,,,,now which country do y want to go for?i know most sporeans go fer oz n usa as there is still some industrial raw material they can use to build things from.i was thinkin bout iceland but i dont know their language n by the time i learn it....time n money will be wasted.
Originally posted by seyKai:I have been contemplating that issue. it would depends on how you look at life and your needs. I have narrowed down to a few countries but no ang mo countries.
I can share with you what went through my mind a long time ago...
Being educated in the US (and worked & given a social security number), and had the chance to know there was no ceiling to what we could do, I opted out because the whole country is very messed up.
Canada was too cold and laid back.
Non Ang Moh countries that would give us Sinaporeans a similar lifestyle would be Hong Kong, Taiwan, Korea & Japan. HK would not work for me, as the city is too cramped, and people too materialistic (& busy trying not to loose out by very conforming fashion sense or career direction); Taiwan - a very confrontational country though we do find some of the nicest people there; Korea and Japan - forget it, though I love to travel to JPN and for its food, do you think they will really accept us?
Then I looked at alternatives, Malaysia & Thailand. Well Malaysia's Bumi Butra ticks me off totally and Thailand is on a different planet, the mystical aspect is beautiful but not I cannot associate myself to it.
Therefore, Singapore is where I belong. Initially it was a choice by deduction (of possibilities) and now, it is choice of my heart and responsibility. Yes RESPONSIBILITY, because I know I can contribute be it small or big, whether the government is screwed up or a good one. I certainly have many questions to ask and I also feel angry when I see unreasonable policies, but since I am "stuck here", I will find ways to make changes within my means and influence.
Again, good luck in your persuit of better places if you choose to go...
to vendettys,
if they get people to finish u off salary wise in yer company be it foreign or domestic.....then u are badly treated by gov policies.and its way much worse if you are a guy.
Originally posted by OHSheet:ok.. that pretty much answers what i've asked.
so.. again. i'd infer from what you state, of sg being your homeland, and something you'd refer to as a mother. yup?
alright. i understand it perfectly. But i'll tell you why some are leaving, in terms of your perspective.
Well, this "mother" has been illtreating the citizens, or what you might consider as abuse/ neglect. So, it might be the case that wise or fortunate enough ones are able to break free of this abuse, to some place else better.(i dont wish to bring out the articles and cases here, im sure they've been posted by other sgf forumers)
Have you also considered that it may be your shortsightedness in realising the fact that citizens do not disapprove the leaders, but infact with the way the leaders treat the citizens? And that spurs feelings of being alienated from the country, so they'd rather migrate since they feel as outcasts.
Hi I can relate to what you have mentioned, about "ill treatments"....etc.
Do you honestly think you will not be "ill treated" elsewhere?
It is indeed sad if we feel alienated in our own country, but could it be the result of false expectation from our so called leaders? What is in our rights is different from what eventually will be given to us. I do not fantasize our leaders are genuinely dedicated to the country's cause, nor do I even imagine to sit down with them on a heart-to-heart talk. In my other forums, I mentioned my experience with a few Ministers, and I was not impressed; and their associates..., "ass kissers" is a term I would use. So do I have a beautiful picture of my leaders? Absolutely NOT. Notice my other forum titles:
Top 5 Questions you wanna ask d Government/ Is our government like the Titanic/ How do you rate our government from 1-10? 10 being perfect?
These questions will tell you I have questions to ask of my government. Yet I choose what I choose...
I hope this brings a new dimention to the word :CHOICE.
to lionasis,
how messed up is usa??too long paperwerk n red tape???
and whats wrong wiv canada????i know the job market isnt fantastic but i bet their land is as cheap as the usa.with a small plot of land u can build everything in order to proceed with the next stage of your life.
thailand from the exterior might look alien but i do notice that some of the best tech stuff believe it or not comes from there today.either spore is falling behind or everyone in spore has no more hope to live and work anymore.
malaYSIA HAS TOO MUCXH DiSCRIMINATION N RED TAPE.ONLY GO THERE FER FOOD.
taiwan sounds nice but their immigration policies are alien n unknown.i actually have dreams of setting up my factory in cooler parts of taiwan.
korea,japan n china are way too imperfect as humans n i couldnt care waste time there except on holidays n cheap goods.
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:to lionasis,
how messed up is usa??too long paperwerk n red tape???
and whats wrong wiv canada????i know the job market isnt fantastic but i bet their land is as cheap as the usa.with a small plot of land u can build everything in order to proceed with the next stage of your life.
thailand from the exterior might look alien but i do notice that some of the best tech stuff believe it or not comes from there today.either spore is falling behind or everyone in spore has no more hope to live and work anymore.
malaYSIA HAS TOO MUCXH DiSCRIMINATION N RED TAPE.ONLY GO THERE FER FOOD.
taiwan sounds nice but their immigration policies are alien n unknown.i actually have dreams of setting up my factory in cooler parts of taiwan.
korea,japan n china are way too imperfect as humans n i couldnt care waste time there except on holidays n cheap goods.
Hi,
I was asking people for their choice of citizenship should they leave Singapore, not choices of weekend shopping or factory operations.
If you do feel differently from me I can respect that.
Originally posted by Lionoasis:Hi I can relate to what you have mentioned, about "ill treatments"....etc.
Do you honestly think you will not be "ill treated" elsewhere?
It is indeed sad if we feel alienated in our own country, but could it be the result of false expectation from our so called leaders? What is in our rights is different from what eventually will be given to us. I do not fantasize our leaders are genuinely dedicated to the country's cause, nor do I even imagine to sit down with them on a heart-to-heart talk. In my other forums, I mentioned my experience with a few Ministers, and I was not impressed; and their associates..., "ass kissers" is a term I would use. So do I have a beautiful picture of my leaders? Absolutely NOT. Notice my other forum titles:
Top 5 Questions you wanna ask d Government/ Is our government like the Titanic/ How do you rate our government from 1-10? 10 being perfect?
These questions will tell you I have questions to ask of my government. Yet I choose what I choose...
I hope this brings a new dimention to the word :CHOICE.
yep. Thanks for your clarification again. i understand where you're coming from.
and no, I wont be surprised if im being illtreated by another government in another country. What you state is true here.
However, it is the degree of abuse which the citizens face, which might cause them to migrate. Eg. 1st class/ 2nd class citizens? PRs? Rights? And some might question why PRs have almost equal or even better in several cases, opportunities than citizens. well, again i dont wish to pull out the articles, im sure they are being posted on sgf.
yep. I do understand your choice and i do respect it.
Besides, dont mind me, id like to ask. If say sg was in a war, would you stay to defend the country? Or would you flee?right. this question is impt.
thanks again.
ahh. i understand that you're being bombarded with questions. Thanks.
Originally posted by OHSheet:yep. Thanks for your clarification again. i understand where you're coming from.
and no, I wont be surprised if im being illtreated by another government in another country. What you state is true here.
However, it is the degree of abuse which the citizens face, which might cause them to migrate. Eg. 1st class/ 2nd class citizens? PRs? Rights? And some might question why PRs have almost equal or even better in several cases, opportunities than citizens. well, again i dont wish to pull out the articles, im sure they are being posted on sgf.
yep. I do understand your choice and i do respect it.
Besides, dont mind me, id like to ask. If say sg was in a war, would you stay to defend the country? Or would you flee?right. this question is impt.
thanks again.
To tell you truth, I will fight in a non-militant way. There are many ways to infutrate the enenmy. If you were refering to fighting as a soldier - NO, but will I play my part - YES.
Dun know this answers your questions?
Originally posted by Lionoasis:To tell you truth, I will fight in a non-militant way. There are many ways to infutrate the enenmy. If you were refering to fighting as a soldier - NO, but will I play my part - YES.
Dun know this answers your questions?
eh. i mean fight as a soldier. where it includes risking your life and the possiblity of dying and never seeing daylight again.
ok. i didnt wana dramatise it, but yep, id like to ask that.
to lionasis,
eh??shopping ??factory operations???thats what i live fer!!!thats why the world keeps rolling on n on.......
i have no idea on how desperate u are but in todays world as compared with say 1990s...countries that allow easy immigration has all but dried up.in the past a chinaman can take a flight n marry a kiwi in new zealand overnight n get his p.r. soon after that.new zealand in year 2009 has stopped all immigration and getting into nz as p.r. now is as good as buying 4D.
im afraid to say that every single country i know since the advent of the internet has toughened its immigration policiesto the point of no entry unless you are a refugee.
Originally posted by OHSheet:eh. i mean fight as a soldier. where it includes risking your life and the possiblity of dying and never seeing daylight again.
ok. i didnt wana dramatise it, but yep, id like to ask that.
The answer is again NO. I am not brave enough to fight that way, but I hope this is not a reflection of feelings for my country, and more importantly, not a reflection of the NETT CONTRIBUTION to my country.
Try weighing this. A soldier go to battlefield, kills one enemy and dies vs a fund that finances our defence/ or medical facility during war?
Who contributes more? How do you compare them?
There was a religeous teaching that a poor man giving all he has - be it only pennies - is actually giving MORE compared to a rich man giving dollars, as it is seen from a % to a person's wealth point of view. Well my theory is that the teaching was aimed at poor people, though there is something to learn from it. But if the rich person, though giving out only a tiny part of his wealth, can help more people, I will take the rich man's money.
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:to lionasis,
eh??shopping ??factory operations???thats what i live fer!!!thats why the world keeps rolling on n on.......
i have no idea on how desperate u are but in todays world as compared with say 1990s...countries that allow easy immigration has all but dried up.in the past a chinaman can take a flight n marry a kiwi in new zealand overnight n get his p.r. soon after that.new zealand in year 2009 has stopped all immigration and getting into nz as p.r. now is as good as buying 4D.
im afraid to say that every single country i know since the advent of the internet has toughened its immigration policiesto the point of no entry unless you are a refugee.
Please remember my choice, and yours?
And please enlighten me what connection does the internet have with immigration policies? Are you another Angle7030?
Where will I go...hmmm..I guess it depends on the situation at hand.
If I were to retire, I think Singapore would not be a bad choice, since I was born there, and would hopefully still have some family alive for company. The healthcare system in SG is still top notch, even the gov-system is extremely effective. Also, by the time I retire, I believe I can afford at least a flat in SG, and since the cost of living is pretty low compared to other developed countries, it's still affordable. No need for a car also since the taxis are so cheap (compared to the US).
If I were to chiong career, then I would say probably China, since there's alot of stuff going on there, and opportunities abound. However, I would have to tahan the lower standard of hygiene and graciousness. But hey, if I get to climb the corporate ladder, I can endure it for awhile.
If I just want to ease on and coast through a job and life in general, the US is pretty comfy for that. The whole work-life balance awareness here is pretty good, but I'd say it really depends on the city you work in. US ppl here are also mostly oblivious to the material accomplishments of others, so there's no keeping up with the Jonses kind of deal like in SG. In the US, ppl respect you for what you do, not what you own. You could have loads of money but don't do squat with it, and ppl would think you're a loser. But if you're not rich, but have lots of stuff going on with your life, volunteering, travel, sports, etc., ppl will respect you. And of course, cars and houses are so cheap, so it doesn't cost much to be comfortable. Screw the whole thing going with the politics in this country. Just tune it out, just like if you were in SG.
Just my 2 cents...
Originally posted by Lionoasis:The answer is again NO. I am not brave enough to fight that way, but I hope this is not a reflection of feelings for my country, and more importantly, not a reflection of the NETT CONTRIBUTION to my country.
Try weighing this. A soldier go to battlefield, kills one enemy and dies vs a fund that finances our defence/ or medical facility during war?
Who contributes more? How do you compare them?
There was a religeous teaching that a poor man giving all he has - be it only pennies - is actually giving MORE compared to a rich man giving dollars, as it is seen from a % to a person's wealth point of view. Well my theory is that the teaching was aimed at poor people, though there is something to learn from it. But if the rich person, though giving out only a tiny part of his wealth, can help more people, I will take the rich man's money.
alright. Just wanted to clarify some things.
because there is a difference between choosing to stay in a country, and actually belonging to one.and NO, it isnt a measure of your nett contribution to the country.
In the case of a war, well... its like that. And thats why tons of citizens are complaining, as to why PRs can run free, while citizens defend the interest of despots and foreigners (who do not have any feeling towards sg, except for monetary incentives).
Regardless, im sure. If one feels compelled and belonged to their country, they will not hesitate to defend it, even if it means at the expense of their lives.
so... in this case. Sg wouldnt be your home. As for instance. If someone were to invade your home(or any prized possesion of yours), im certain that you will not hesitate to defend it at all costs.
which again, links back to my point of the degree of abuse which the citizens have been facing. lol. ok somehow i think its funny that everything connects.
to lionasis,
angel7030???is that you??aha!!!!we have found u angel7030!!u vanished n now came back with a new name!!!!n why did u edited your message???
anyway angel7030.......the internet came out in 1996.......so i have been researching stuff like that eversince...categorized each country..how suitable it is .....i kinda find singapore like a dying planet n my mission is to survive.im sure everyone has same feelings bout singapore.
Originally posted by OHSheet:alright. Just wanted to clarify some things.
because there is a difference between choosing to stay in a country, and actually belonging to one.and NO, it isnt a measure of your nett contribution to the country.
In the case of a war, well... its like that. And thats why tons of citizens are complaining, as to why PRs can run free, while citizens defend the interest of despots and foreigners (who do not have any feeling towards sg, except for monetary incentives).
Regardless, im sure. If one feels compelled and belonged to their country, they will not hesitate to defend it, even if it means at the expense of their lives.
so... in this case. Sg wouldnt be your home. As for instance. If someone were to invade your home(or any prized possesion of yours), im certain that you will not hesitate to defend it at all costs.
which again, links back to my point of the degree of abuse which the citizens have been facing. lol. ok somehow i think its funny that everything connects.
There are different levels of passion and it does not take the deepest of passions to convince oneself to pick a home. Thus, my unwillingness to pick up a rifle is not an indication of my devotion to my choice. Put in another way, I love my family more than I love my country, I think most people are the same, and I will be more inclined to risk my life for the former than the latter.
If you are comparing a PR and a citizen, why not compare a Minister and a commoner? Is that not a more relevant comparison? They feed off our money, and are our leaders right?
And will yor fight, serioously?
Originally posted by Boomslang4829:Where will I go...hmmm..I guess it depends on the situation at hand.
If I were to retire, I think Singapore would not be a bad choice, since I was born there, and would hopefully still have some family alive for company. The healthcare system in SG is still top notch, even the gov-system is extremely effective. Also, by the time I retire, I believe I can afford at least a flat in SG, and since the cost of living is pretty low compared to other developed countries, it's still affordable. No need for a car also since the taxis are so cheap (compared to the US).
Have you wondered why the health-care system is top notch, how about the fund? Where does the govt get them from.?
Cost of living low compared to other developed countries? Surveys show otherwise. In a recent survey posted on TOC, it shows the buying power of singaporean workers are among the lowerst as compared to other developed countries. (its a survey about the amt of working hours req to purchase an ipod, and other grocery prices, compared with other countries.)
Lastly.. transport. Ok. what you've stated seriously makes no sense at all.
You can buy a chrysler 300C 2nd hand at just 3 years old for $9000, and do note that you keep the car for life, instead of in sg, after 10 years, it'll most probably be in the dump. Try doing that in sg.