U.S. about to hit debt ceiling - again
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Another "fantasy story" from the minds of a worthless "hum" living in its "nutshell" and talking like a "nut".A Taiwanese "hum" stuck in a "shell" and talking to "americans prisoners" ?
The "hum" must be living alone for too long in the "nutshell" and hearing voices too ?
Only a "hum" living in a "nutshell" will believe that the other 300 million "hums" are weird.
Can we trust the opinion of an ignorant "hum" from Taiwan ?
Uncle Ah Bian get life sentence...u think can trust or not?? -
Originally posted by Atobe:
Can we leave it to a Taiwanese "hum" to know the workings of the Fortune 400 ?Is it not amazing that with the knowledge that you have, you will remain stuck in your worthless positon as a "hum" ?
Only a "hum" will continue to loudly boast her ignorance that Bill Gates and Warren Buffett will need to run around in circles to keep their wealth intact.
Do they need to buy Euro and Reminbi, and buy back the supposedly worthless US Treasury Bonds in Reminbi again ?
Can the worthless "hum" work out the mechanics to the profits and loss for such round about ways of conducting deals in the magnitude involved ?
It is obvious that the "hum" is unaware that most of those listed in the Fortune 400 are already in their 60s, and are enjoying their accumulated fortunes - with Bill Gates setting up Trust Funds in aid of charity work, and Warren Buffett already giving away almost all of his fortune to the charity trust fund created by Bill Gates and his wife.
The "hum" should learn to give more time to her specialty and spend less time living in her "fantasy lai lai lai" World, thinking that everyone should work like her by going through the back doors for all the dishonest shady work.
Do americans just live on Bill and Warren??? if they wish to be Philantropists, good, rich are suppose to pay back to the society that make them rich, a so call plough back, I do that often, if not how to console my soul, you become rich because the world and society allow you to do it, fair enuf, you may have worked hard and struggle to become rich, but it is the society that play an important role to allow you to be rich..without a peaceful society, do you think Bill can think of microsoft? with the support from peoples to buy walmart, you think warren can be rich??? These people knows that they have to return what was given...so that the society remain flavourably in peace and harmony and rich. And when people are able to consume, they buy, and these Philantropists become richer...u understand or not?? Same goes to Lee Ka Sing, he is a philantropist, he knows that too much money will bury him, he has to plough back to the society which had given him this fortune, so that when the society is rich again, they gamble at his casinos..u got to understand how the rich works ya...Same goes to me, I give direct charity to poor child cancer patients at NUH..because that is the way I take money from rich drinker and give it to the sick and poor so that the society can strike a balance.
What is fortune 400, this are rich people mazagine, we should be looking more on the unfortuntely 400 singaporeans rather than wasting your time salivating those rich?? Understand or not, Uncle
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Do americans just live on Bill and Warren??? if they wish to be Philantropists, good, rich are suppose to pay back to the society that make them rich, a so call plough back, I do that often, if not how to console my soul, you become rich because the world and society allow you to do it, fair enuf, you may have worked hard and struggle to become rich, but it is the society that play an important role to allow you to be rich..without a peaceful society, do you think Bill can think of microsoft? with the support from peoples to buy walmart, you think warren can be rich??? These people knows that they have to return what was given...so that the society remain flavourably in peace and harmony and rich. And when people are able to consume, they buy, and these Philantropists become richer...u understand or not?? Same goes to Lee Ka Sing, he is a philantropist, he knows that too much money will bury him, he has to plough back to the society which had given him this fortune, so that when the society is rich again, they gamble at his casinos..u got to understand how the rich works ya...If you have consoled your soul, will you end up as a useless "hum" spreading your insufferable ignorance persistently ?
If you are as rich as you claimed, it is obvious that the wealth is uselessly spent to hae produced an ignorant "hum" that have to migrate from Taiwan to Singapore - jumping from a pan and into the fire.
Obviously, you are ignorant to know that Bill Gates developed Microsoft at a time when the USA was having social upheavals with the war in Vietnam splitting the country and the budget draining the economy.
Have you contributed enough to your adopted country, as it seems that the people are still struggling while the useless "hum" from Taiwan must come here to compete for space and import more foreigners to suck the juice from Singaporeans ?
Same goes to me, I give direct charity to poor child cancer patients at NUH..because that is the way I take money from rich drinker and give it to the sick and poor so that the society can strike a balance.
Is it not in the typical ignorance that a "hum" will paint a boastful picture of helping cancer patients, but will at the same time cause new patients by taking "the money from the rich drinker" and causing them to have liver cancer - only for the "hum" to look good again by being charitable ?
You certainly know how to balance the evil that your "hum" can dream up to make yourself look good at the expense of others.
What is fortune 400, this are rich people mazagine, we should be looking more on the unfortuntely 400 singaporeans rather than wasting your time salivating those rich?? Understand or not, Uncle
Only the worthless "hum" will salivate on the rich drinkers to help the "hum" imagine to be rich with the few dollars earned per bottle plied on the drinkers
Do we need to wonder why the "hum" continue to be ignorant with its inability to read and be inspired through reading ?
Can we expect the "hum" to learn beyond the "nutshell" that it will claim to be a home, when the "hum" occupy all the space and have to leave the brain outside the shell ?
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I supposed when a report like this come up it is great to have a huge numbers to capture audience attention. But ask a few question to ask is what does it reference to? The number alone is huge. But the debt according to the laterest 2008 report is 75% of US GDP. While Singapore debt is 99.5% of its GDP.
While comparing US agriculture export vs China agriculture Import reflect the inheritance risk involved in China. You can be rich but go hungry as well.
China mainly imported agricultural produce from the US, ASEAN, Brazil, Argentina and the EU, up 57.9 percent, 30.2 percent, 89.8 percent, 62.2 percent and 32.5 percent, respectively, year-to-year. Compared to the previous year, the proportion of agricultural produce that China imported in 2008 from ASEAN and the EU dropped by 1.6 percentage points and 0.5 percentage points, respectively, while the proportion of agricultural produce that China imported from the US, Brazil and Argentina rose by 2.4, 3.3 and 1.7 percentage points, respectively.
So just because they are poorer it doesn't mean they are starving....there are plenty of free food around.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
I supposed when a report like this come up it is great to have a huge numbers to capture audience attention. But ask a few question to ask is what does it reference to? The number alone is huge. But the debt according to the laterest 2008 report is 75% of US GDP. While Singapore debt is 99.5% of its GDP.
While comparing US agriculture export vs China agriculture Import reflect the inheritance risk involved in China. You can be rich but go hungry as well.
China mainly imported agricultural produce from the US, ASEAN, Brazil, Argentina and the EU, up 57.9 percent, 30.2 percent, 89.8 percent, 62.2 percent and 32.5 percent, respectively, year-to-year. Compared to the previous year, the proportion of agricultural produce that China imported in 2008 from ASEAN and the EU dropped by 1.6 percentage points and 0.5 percentage points, respectively, while the proportion of agricultural produce that China imported from the US, Brazil and Argentina rose by 2.4, 3.3 and 1.7 percentage points, respectively.
So just because they are poorer it doesn't mean they are starving....there are plenty of free food around.
Like you said the huge numbers capture the audience's attention but in the end what does it reference to?At first glance, Singapore's debt to GDP is worrying when it's so high compared to the US's.
But there is a difference between internal debt and external debt.
I quote:
The first distinction to be made is between an internal debt and an external debt. An internal debt is owed by a nation to its own citizens. Many argue that an internal debt poses no burden because we owe it all to ourselves. While this statement is oversimplified, it does represent a genuine insight. If each citizen owed $10,000 of government bonds and were liable for the taxes to service just that debt, it would make no sense to think of debt as a heavy load of rocks that each citizen must carry. People simply owe the debt to themselves.
An external debt is owed by a nation of foreigners. This debt does involve a net subtraction from the resources available to people in the debtor nation. In the 1980s, many nations experienced serve economic hardships after they incurred large external debts. They were forced to export more than they imported to run trade surpluses in order to service their external debts, that is to pay the interest and principal on their past borrowings. Countries like Brazil and Mexico need to set aside one fourth to one third of their export earnings to service their external debts. The debt service burden on an external debt represents a deduction in the consumption possibilities of a nation.I'm just speculating here but i believe that our high debt to GDP is mostly internal/public debt (I'm no economist, but i think those debts are mostly estimated payouts of CPF).
Our external debt on the other hand is much lower (11.27% to GDP). Meaning to my understanding, that we are actually less vulnerable to speculation and economic crashes because Singapore is not as exposed to sudden exchange rate inflation or deflation. Because of the lower external debt our debts have a lesser chance of ballooning suddenly without warning. Which i think is a healthy thing to have.
I would say we have a good chance of becoming like Japan, overborrowing on the CPF(The primary reason i think why we had the flood of foreigners to replenish the coffers). But it's a lot less destructive from my understanding compared to the high external debt that the US has.
HongKong on the other hand has 200.48% external debt but 14.5% public debt. Taiwan's better on that count with 14.01% external and 30.9% public. From an economic point of view Taiwan seems very underleveraged but talking with my Taiwanese friends i think this has more to do with decision making paralysis rather than good governance though that is my own personal opinion. .
Yes, 99.5% of GDP is a scary thing that capture attention but when you break it down to its component it's "somewhat" not so terrifying.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Like you said the huge numbers capture the audience's attention but in the end what does it reference to?At first glance, Singapore's debt to GDP is worrying when it's so high compared to the US's.
But there is a difference between internal debt and external debt.
I quote:
The first distinction to be made is between an internal debt and an external debt. An internal debt is owed by a nation to its own citizens. Many argue that an internal debt poses no burden because we owe it all to ourselves. While this statement is oversimplified, it does represent a genuine insight. If each citizen owed $10,000 of government bonds and were liable for the taxes to service just that debt, it would make no sense to think of debt as a heavy load of rocks that each citizen must carry. People simply owe the debt to themselves.
An external debt is owed by a nation of foreigners. This debt does involve a net subtraction from the resources available to people in the debtor nation. In the 1980s, many nations experienced serve economic hardships after they incurred large external debts. They were forced to export more than they imported to run trade surpluses in order to service their external debts, that is to pay the interest and principal on their past borrowings. Countries like Brazil and Mexico need to set aside one fourth to one third of their export earnings to service their external debts. The debt service burden on an external debt represents a deduction in the consumption possibilities of a nation.I'm just speculating here but i believe that our high debt to GDP is mostly internal/public debt (I'm no economist, but i think those debts are mostly estimated payouts of CPF).
Our external debt on the other hand is much lower (11.27% to GDP). Meaning to my understanding, that we are actually less vulnerable to speculation and economic crashes because Singapore is not as exposed to sudden exchange rate inflation or deflation. Because of the lower external debt our debts have a lesser chance of ballooning suddenly without warning. Which i think is a healthy thing to have.
I would say we have a good chance of becoming like Japan, overborrowing on the CPF(The primary reason i think why we had the flood of foreigners to replenish the coffers). But it's a lot less destructive from my understanding compared to the high external debt that the US has.
HongKong on the other hand has 200.48% external debt but 14.5% public debt. Taiwan's better on that count with 14.01% external and 30.9% public. From an economic point of view Taiwan seems very underleveraged but talking with my Taiwanese friends i think this has more to do with decision making paralysis rather than good governance though that is my own personal opinion. .
Yes, 99.5% of GDP is a scary thing that capture attention but when you break it down to its component it's "somewhat" not so terrifying.
Well you could be right on the external debt, if debt payment is requestd, but bare in mind that SG has no resource. While the US still have abondance resources. The debt itself would not put them into Starving house. Wherelse SG import near everything under the SUN.
Even considered a import restriction by the US to improved domestics consumption would proof to be difficult? But it looks like Singapore will have Cheaper and Bigger Chicken Feets at Dim Sum place in the near future.
CHICAGO (Reuters) - A developing trade dispute between the United States and China over automobile tires could hurt sales of U.S. chicken feet and other chicken products, should Beijing decide to retaliate against the United States.
About half of the $800 million worth of U.S. chicken sold to China annually is chicken feet, or paws.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
Well you could be right on the external debt, if debt payment is requestd, but bare in mind that SG has no resource. While the US still have abondance resources. The debt itself would not put them into Starving house. Wherelse SG import near everything under the SUN.
Even considered a import restriction by the US to improved domestics consumption would proof to be difficult? But it looks like Singapore will have Cheaper and Bigger Chicken Feets at Dim Sum place in the near future.
CHICAGO (Reuters) - A developing trade dispute between the United States and China over automobile tires could hurt sales of U.S. chicken feet and other chicken products, should Beijing decide to retaliate against the United States.
About half of the $800 million worth of U.S. chicken sold to China annually is chicken feet, or paws.
Meh i have no illusions about our fate. Our rise came first from the rise of Coal, then from the Age of Oil, and we would most likely end once this particular age ends much like the dead cities along the Silk Road
I never believed the United States would simply just collapse or become Zimbawe overnight. But i think it would either become facist (actually it probably is right now, just that the corporations and banks are the dominant ones) and turn against the world or simply fade quietly into the night like the British Empire.
You once said the USA is great because people could protest on the streets and criticize the government openly. But that's only effective if the government is actually listening. From what i'm seeing, that doesn't seemed to be the quite the case.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Meh i have no illusions about our fate. Our rise came first from the rise of Coal, then from the Age of Oil, and we would most likely end once this particular age ends much like the dead cities along the Silk Road
I never believed the United States would simply just collapse or become Zimbawe overnight. But i think it would either become facist (actually it probably is right now, just that the corporations and banks are the dominant ones) and turn against the world or simply fade quietly into the night like the British Empire.
You once said the USA is great because people could protest on the streets and criticize the government openly. But that's only effective if the government is actually listening. From what i'm seeing, that doesn't seemed to be the quite the case.
well look at it this way...the fact is you are actually reading about the protest that show that it works.
What you are hearing is probably from GOP voters bickering of over spending and Rush Limbach of telling his listeners that Obama is a communist, resident aliens and the non bipartisan etc......but majority of the voters that voted for Obama still remember why GOP is not working.....
In the state side Protest is a way of life in every single issued that you could possibily imagine...the system of competing for the voice to be heard is still working to ensure the strongerest survived.
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Originally posted by Stevenson101:
Meh i have no illusions about our fate. Our rise came first from the rise of Coal, then from the Age of Oil, and we would most likely end once this particular age ends much like the dead cities along the Silk Road
The only way to prevent ourselves from becoming the dead cities along the Silk Road is to make ourselves continuously relevant on the chessboard of Life.
We have to find a place in the equation of all things and be a useful component in the global grid - and to do so, we have to look at the strengths of this Community, and reduce the weaknesses by working to change these into strengths.
I never believed the United States would simply just collapse or become Zimbawe overnight. But i think it would either become facist (actually it probably is right now, just that the corporations and banks are the dominant ones) and turn against the world or simply fade quietly into the night like the British Empire.
On the balance of the US history, the fact that the US Constitution is the basis for all human activities, and the principles of governance stated in the Constitution being enforced by the Executive, the Legislative, the Judiciary and the Administrative branches of Government - fascism cannot possibly take root in the USA.
The KKK, the Malcom-X and similar Fascist groups - that appear off-and-on through the tortured course of US history - have all been beaten with the ring leaders locked-up for life after public trials that give legitimacy to the Constitution.
No single political party that assume political power will be tolerated to tinker with the Constitution, which remains sacred to the US Citizens - from the common folks to the political leadership.
You once said the USA is great because people could protest on the streets and criticize the government openly. But that's only effective if the government is actually listening. From what i'm seeing, that doesn't seemed to be the quite the case.
Perhaps your views that "the people's protest is not effective as the government is not listening" is based on your Singapore experience and not the USA ?
If the loud protests on the US streets were not heard and taken seriously by the US government, will the Vietnam War ended with such ignominious results that scarred the memory of the US veterans that fought in that War ?
If the loud protests on the US streets led by Martin Luther King were not heard and taken seriously by the US government, will the Civil Rights Act be written and acted on vigorously by the Federal Authority to crack down on any abuses by State Authorities or by determined citizens to be racial chauvinists ?
If the loud protest on the US streets led by the extreme Right Wing were not heard and taken seriously by the present Obama Government, will Obama have responded with double the vigor and focus to tackle the skewed views that thrive on the ignorance and fears purposefully pursued and taken advantage by the Right Wing ?
The Singapore PAP Government has always harp on the fact that organised public opinion impinge on the authority of an Elected Government and is therefore illegal when such opinions from the Citizens have no basis of legitimacy.
The Singapore PAP Government had used the US experience as an excuse where organised dissent is disruptive without considering that when the Government bypass the Citizen's interests, then the voice of the Citizen must not only be heard, but be taken seriously.
Compared to the experience of Singaporeans with the Singapore PAP Government, it has been allowing the citizens voice to be heard, but that the government has already decided before hand and has already considered all the possible objections before hand, and unless some other more persuasive objections are made by the Citizens - nothing else will be considered.
Even in Hongkong and South Korea, public demonstrations on some passionate issues that concern the Citizens have surely brought the attention of the respective governments to focus on the issues raised.
Public protests and demonstrations have changed the course of history in Poland, the Philippines, East Germany, and also Soviet Russia.
The PAP Government is aware and worried about the power of such mass public protests that is caused by an accumulation of public frustrations or concerns that bring focus on a single issue.
Is Singapore in anyway better when the Citizens are made dumb and their minds made blank by the PAP method of monopolising political power that allow them to control every aspect of Political Life in Singapore ?
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A trade war is looming, must be Obama's quick fix for the growing debt burden.
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the deterioration of the US power is the start of beginning and the rise of next superpower, china is also beginning, just like the loss of the british empire in the previous century.
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Originally posted by Rooney9:
the deterioration of the US power is the start of beginning and the rise of next superpower, china is also beginning, just like the loss of the british empire in the previous century.
when you look at Deterioration of US power...what does it really translate?
That is just reduce influence in Asia region...what if the US retreat to partial isolation. The US does not really need to import food. If they attained energy efficiency reduce reliance of overseas energy. Than internationally there is only Trade and Human Traffic.
China..... like i said again its never certained.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
You cannot have everyone to be Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Sheldon Adelson, Lawrence Ellison, Paul Gardner Allen, Jim C Walton, Michael Dell, Sergey Brin, Larry E Page, Steven Anthony Ballmer and the others listed in the ‘Fortune 400’ (*1)If everyone is an Indian Chief, who will be the remaining actors ?
From time to time, more then any other country on this globe, the USA has been able to produce winners that create something that is useful and wholly embraced by the global community.
I don't see how the US could ever get out of this mess even with their reliance on technological innovation because production and employment would most likely be outsourced to China or some developing country like what happened here.
Besides, with the enormous public and private debt the US already has, many times its GDP, and many times more an amount promised to save a dead economic system, a trend which sees wealthier nations not wanting to buy American debt anymore, a crash is inevitable.
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Originally posted by freedomclub:
I don't see how the US could ever get out of this mess even with their reliance on technological innovation because production and employment would most likely be outsourced to China or some developing country like what happened here.
Did you missed out the statements made by Obama and his recent actions taken towards China's intransigent arbitrary protectionist policies ?
Obama did say that the USA will have to find new technologies that will make the USA relevant again, and to have these new technological products to be developed and produced within the USA - so as to have some kind of new economic revival
The new technologies are intended to make the USA less dependent on Middle-east Oil, and to have the new technologies to be developed and produced in the USA so as to guarantee jobs for the US workers.
Besides, with the enormous public and private debt the US already has, many times its GDP, and many times more an amount promised to save a dead economic system, a trend which sees wealthier nations not wanting to buy American debt anymore, a crash is inevitable.
Is the crash inevitable ?
Will China or other nations allow this to happen to the USA and hope that there will be no repercussions to their respective home grounds ?
There will be a re-alignment of manufacturing facilities and resources - that perhaps will allow the playing field to be more level then before, or at least with handicaps to be handed out to level the field of entry for the newly arrived, the present and the future members.
There is alot for Obama, his Administration, and the US citizens to do, and there is little they can do to help themselves with the present status quo unless there is a global effort to rebuild confidence in the financial, manufacturing systems, and market share mechanism.
In less then 40 years, when China can be where it is today - it will be easier for the USA to perform as well as China - considering that the USA has been a major league player for so long.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
well look at it this way...the fact is you are actually reading about the protest that show that it works.
What you are hearing is probably from GOP voters bickering of over spending and Rush Limbach of telling his listeners that Obama is a communist, resident aliens and the non bipartisan etc......but majority of the voters that voted for Obama still remember why GOP is not working.....
In the state side Protest is a way of life in every single issued that you could possibily imagine...the system of competing for the voice to be heard is still working to ensure the strongerest survived.
Not neccessarily. Just because i don't drop dead from eating a hamburger doesn't mean it won't contribute to my demise if i eat it for every meal. And you are stating the end result, while i am observing the events that would ultimately lead to that end result.
Actually i haven't listened much to Rush Limbach, i prefer Bill Maher, Ron Paul, Ralph Nalder and a little of George Carlin if i was feeling cynical enough.
Personally i think the idea of survival of the strongest is a distortion of the original intent when you compare it to what actually happens in nature. What is strong in logic doesn't neccessarily win the argument, it is the obnoxious loud voice that wins out. The Bill O Reillys would shout you down by seizing on the one portion of your argument that is controversial and drown out the intent of the message.
The strongest is winning right now, but it is not the logically better one.
The people that voted for Obama voted him because they believe in his policies. However, they are not the ones that would determine whether he could carry out those promises.