Cost of building HDB flats – finally an answer?
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http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/09/cost-of-building-hdb-flats-finally-an-answer/
Cost of building HDB flats – finally an answer?
Wednesday, 2 September 2009, 12:36 pm
Leong Sze Hian
I
refer to the replies by the Housing and Development Board (HDB) to the
various letters in the Straits Times forum page over the past few
weeks. (See below)I also refer to media reports (“SGX mainboard-listed BBR secures S$104.2m HDB contract”, ChannelNewsAsia, Aug 17) Channelnewsasiaarticlehdbcontract_com.mht that Singapore Exchange’s mainboard-listed BBR Holdings has secured a S$104.2-million contract from the Housing & Development Board (HDB) to build seven blocks of flats in Yishun Neighbourhood 4.
The work comprises 864 homes, a Child Care Centre, a roof garden, communal amenities and site works, as well as contingency works.
Since there will be 864 HDB flats, the average cost per flat, inclusive of communal amenities, site works and contingency works, is about $120,602 ($104.2 million divided by 864 flats).
With the latest HDB new 4-room flats at Punggol (Punggol Residences BTO) selling at an average price of $293,000 (price range of $264,000 to $322,000 divided by 2), does it mean that the HDB stands to make a profit of about $172,398 per flat, or a profit margin of about 143 per cent?
According to the report “Application for Additional Housing Grant doubled since HDB enhanced scheme (CNA, Sep 1), it said:
“Since the additional housing grant scheme was introduced in 2006, the government has disbursed $251 million to more than 16,000 households”.
So, does it mean that the estimated profits from just one BTO project (about $149 million) as discussed above, may be enough to cover about 59 per cent of the total disbursement from 2006 to now, for the additional housing grant scheme?
Straits Times forum page letters:
“How HDB keeps it affordable” (ST, Aug 31)
“Two shortcomings : Public housing too correlated to private market, and HDB has not regulated supply” (ST, Aug 22)
“Flat hunting : Why cash over valuation ever introduced?” (Aug 20)
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The author has forgotten the other important factor , the land cost that HDB need to fork out to SLA... and that explains why HDB is never a profit generating entity.
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Who owns the land?
The government?
Who does the government work for?
LKY/LHL or the people of Singapore?
I guess in Singapore it's different, because the government is a profit motivated entity just like all the big corporations.
In other governments, the surpluses are used to finance public works and social services to increase marginal social benefits. In Singapore, the $300 billion reserves are used to set up Temasek and GIC, so that he can get his family and friends to be CEO and lose $100 billion in investment value. The income derived from the citizens isn't returned to the citizens but used to benefit family and friends.
�之与民，用之与民。
�之与民，用之与自。
Should HDB land (public housing) be priced according to opportunity cost (commercial retail space) foregone?
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I am abit skeptical of the figures provided by HDB and BBR.
Why?
A 1000 square feet private apartment (land, construction cost and profit) in Malaysia KL sells at RM$198,000 (SG$ 80,784). HDB per flat construction cost is SG$121,000, a discrepancy of SG$40,000 (ie if you don't include the land price and profit for the developer in the KL project).
We are not even using Malaysian labourers, shouldn't HDB cost be even cheaper than SG$80,000. I am sure Banglas and PRCs cost a fraction of the Malaysian labourers.
Are you sure HDB didn't include the cost of afew multi-storey car park (also monsoon drains, overhead bridges) to the contract to inflate the cost? (So as to show you they are not making that much from you)
The terms "inclusive of communal amenities, site works and contingency works" looks abit suspicious.
Thank ARPANET for bringing internet to the world, else I can be easily deceived into believing anything.
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Originally posted by iamgoondu:
The author has forgotten the other important factor , the land cost that HDB need to fork out to SLA... and that explains why HDB is never a profit generating entity.
Dude,
Singapore Land Authority (the “Authority”), a Statutory Board under the Ministry of Law (“MinLaw”),
The principal activities of the Authority are to:
(a) optimise land resources for the social and economic development of Singapore;
(b) manage all state land and buildings, land acquisitions, leases sales and leases;
(c) develop, maintain and market national land information;
(d) issue title to land, register instruments and deeds and approve cadastral surveys; and
(e) make available land for residential, commercial, educational, institutional, social and otherrelated purposes.- Copy and paste from SLA website.
HDB and SLA are government entities, Left pocket and right pocket of Gahmen. Understand ?
Go check out the Annual report.
for year 2008, SLA contributed the following to the government coffer.
Statutory contribution to consolidated fund ($3,580,967)
Special contribution to consolidated fund ($10,000,000)And you forgetting property taxes from the people?
Questions ?
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I thought the sale price of these apartments was only cheaper in KL, but apparently it's even cheaper in Johor Bahru.
Construction cost, land price and profit for developer.
These apartments only cost RM$172,000 (SG$70,176)
I wonder why construction cost went up another 100% when it crosses the causeway.
Does the government have 100% duties on sand, cement, iron and tiles?
Does the developer need to pay taxes during construction? Some private development needs to pay taxes.
Construction cost for our HDB apartments CANNOT be SG$121,000 per unit.
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welcome to what is known in sociology as the conflict theory
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After more then 30 over years of questioning, the PAP Government has never given a straight answer as to the cost of building an HDB block of flat.
Chiam See Tong had clashed with Mah Bow Tan on this issue, but had never taken up the challenge from Mah Bow Tan - to build an HDB estate, as Mah had refused to allow Chiam the same set of conditions that HDB was given.
Mah had insisted that the land cost should be based on market price which would have torpedoed Chiam's costings, as the land cost to HDB is based on some formula that will be reflected in the accounts of the various government agencies and HDB, so that every agency will show profit from the transaction on the land used.
Afterall, market price becomes meaningless when the land has been repossessed from Singaporean lease holders with compensation calculated on a fraction of prevailing market rate.
Finally, from a statutory requirement for a Main Board Listed Company to declare income that can affect the profit performance of the company - Singaporeans will get some insight into the cost of building the HDB unit.
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The land was acquired by the government under the Land Acquisition Act 3-4 decades ago as these were farm lands. The owners were then paid paltry sums. I'm sure some of you who have elderly relatives who had their farm land acquired by the government can find out some figures.
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Something like 5cents to 10cents psf back in the 70s.
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i believe there's a quiet concern amonsgt them, due to their frequent defence of prices and 'financial advice' on purchases.....but they are fighting a losing battle....when it hurts the wallets of the people, no amount of sermon can undo the angst....
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Originally posted by Chew Bakar:
Something like 5cents to 10cents psf back in the 70s.
ya, everything also like to talk about last time, last time i not born yet ok, and you were runing around nake around houses.. -
Originally posted by deepak.c:
In other governments, the surpluses are used to finance public works and social services to increase marginal social benefits. In Singapore, the $300 billion reserves are used to set up Temasek and GIC, so that he can get his family and friends to be CEO and lose $100 billion in investment value. The income derived from the citizens isn't returned to the citizens but used to benefit family and friends.
I beg yr pardon,...other govt surpluses are used to finance public and social work meh??? not into their own pocket meh??? if so good, why are these countries still in poor and lousy state?? -
Originally posted by Amsyl:
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/09/cost-of-building-hdb-flats-finally-an-answer/
Cost of building HDB flats – finally an answer?
Wednesday, 2 September 2009, 12:36 pm
Leong Sze Hian
I refer to the replies by the Housing and Development Board (HDB) to the various letters in the Straits Times forum page over the past few weeks. (See below)I also refer to media reports (“SGX mainboard-listed BBR secures S$104.2m HDB contract”, ChannelNewsAsia, Aug 17) Channelnewsasiaarticlehdbcontract_com.mht that Singapore Exchange’s mainboard-listed BBR Holdings has secured a S$104.2-million contract from the Housing & Development Board (HDB) to build seven blocks of flats in Yishun Neighbourhood 4.
The work comprises 864 homes, a Child Care Centre, a roof garden, communal amenities and site works, as well as contingency works.
Since there will be 864 HDB flats, the average cost per flat, inclusive of communal amenities, site works and contingency works, is about $120,602 ($104.2 million divided by 864 flats).
With the latest HDB new 4-room flats at Punggol (Punggol Residences BTO) selling at an average price of $293,000 (price range of $264,000 to $322,000 divided by 2), does it mean that the HDB stands to make a profit of about $172,398 per flat, or a profit margin of about 143 per cent?
According to the report “Application for Additional Housing Grant doubled since HDB enhanced scheme (CNA, Sep 1), it said:
So, does it mean that the estimated profits from just one BTO project (about $149 million) as discussed above, may be enough to cover about 59 per cent of the total disbursement from 2006 to now, for the additional housing grant scheme?
Straits Times forum page letters:
“How HDB keeps it affordable” (ST, Aug 31)
“Two shortcomings : Public housing too correlated to private market, and HDB has not regulated supply” (ST, Aug 22)
“Flat hunting : Why cash over valuation ever introduced?” (Aug 20)
Dun live in HDB lah, who ask u to buy HDB??? why? u never consider you buy 300k and later can sell for 400k ar?? -
Originally posted by iamgoondu:
The author has forgotten the other important factor , the land cost that HDB need to fork out to SLA... and that explains why HDB is never a profit generating entity.
do you have any idea how much the gahmen is paying the land owners? -
Of course they must make u buy HDB Expensive lah. Then u will pay and work for Singapore CPF until u die mah.
U think they will let u take out CPF meh.All that money is government one.Not ours ok.Unless one day u leave singapore and take out all that money mah.
But too many ppl brain wash alrdy.Its like NKF incident.Lots of ppl on the top take a lot of money without u knowing lah. Dun tell me u dun know that.Where u been living man!
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There is an interesting write-up in http://temasekreview.com/?p=12267 regarding HDB n .... recommended reading
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Thank ARPANET for bringing internet to the world, else I can be easily deceived into believing anything.
Old man won't be happy. He doesn't like people to know that he is nothing but moronic bullshit. He prefers brainwashed public to vote for him.
Political leaders must be "found".
So are you a Lee or Li?
You obey the old man dictates?
Otherwise you won't be "found".
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Originally posted by angel3070:
Old man won't be happy. He doesn't like people to know that he is nothing but moronic bullshit. He prefers brainwashed public to vote for him.
Those were the days.
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Originally posted by Fugazzi:
There is an interesting write-up in http://temasekreview.com/?p=12267 regarding HDB n .... recommended reading
We are over paying for a lease. Some mature estates are priced so ridicuslously with 70-80 years lease left. As the article mentioned, when we buy a HDB we sign a Tenancy/Lease Agreement not a Sales and Purchase Agreement for private properties. Yet we are expected to pay so much for the leases because most of the land supply are owned by the govt, which were forcibly bought at a cheap price in the 1970s in the name of providing affordable public housing.
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Originally posted by seyKai:
do you have any idea how much the gahmen is paying the land owners?
I don't know how much our government had paid the land owners. I just highlight the fact that the author had missed out an x variable, which is the land cost.I too understand that it was simply from left pocket to right pocket.
Just for reference that's how much a developer in Penang (Kg Buah Pala) had paid for it land in 2004.
2004年，国阵州政府将豆蔻�土地�给槟城州政府公务员�作社�Nusmetro Venture�人有�公�，原售价为马�642万元，�还打折一���马�321万元，但实际上，豆蔻�土地的市价总值马�三�万元，易言之，州政府�地所得�有市价的10%。
Perhaps someone could question HDB, how they derive the sum $56700 for their MUP program.
And how the HDB valuations have been carried out? And who carried out the HDB valuations? And how endorsed the amount? Does the valuations factored in the age of the flat, estate?
I have looked for a 3rm flat in 2007, it was quoted as $170000. As I do not have a stable job, and I believe in a year time I should have sufficient savings and cpf to pay a lump sum for that flat. Unfortunately the same flat had risen to $250000.
Why work hard and saves on every pennies? I had lose out to those who simply buy and sell their apartments.
Standard Package with Space-Adding Item (SAI)1/2/3-Room4-Room5-RoomExecutiveGovernment pays $45,570
(80%)$40,005
(71%)$34,440
(61%)$31,035
(55%)Lessee pays $11,130
(20%)$16,695
(29%)$22,260
(39%)$25,665
(45%)Total $56,700$56,700$56,700$56,700 -
For those who are still young, I would advise to marry early and buy a new HDB flat (at your capability). And if you need enrol into universities, still buy a new HDB flat first as soon, ask your rich daddy or mummy to finance your housing loan first. In 4 years time, you will probably have some capital to start your own business.
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Originally posted by iamgoondu:
For those who are still young, I would advise to marry early and buy a new HDB flat (at your capability). And if you need enrol into universities, still buy a new HDB flat first as soon, ask your rich daddy or mummy to finance your housing loan first. In 4 years time, you will probably have some capital to start your own business.
Marry early?? U must be joking, why get ourselve tied up so early, got so much years to play and have fun, beside today guys also dun earn as much as us, and most are those lame and weak types, cannot stand the hardship of life, i am certainly not going to loose my youth spending time with these guys. Why buy HDB, aim higher in life, get a free hold land or condo, it is much more worthy. -
All that we have endured and are experiencing now is cos we are stuck with a one-party system, a muzzled press n media.
All one can do is vote wisely and vote for change(s) that is long overdue.
There are many detractors who discourage or even frown upon such a stance.
Well, enough is enough.
One can sleep-walk thru or awake and see what is and hopefully be prudent when it comes to voting.
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To some peoples, what is so wrong about HDB being expensive, it is more affordable than HK, giving the land space we have here..and more over, you can gain from it after selling it and upgrade to a bigger house. In account term, this is an asset on an going concern, meaning you exchange your cash for an asset that is expanding, and you can also rent out yr asset to earn more money while the asset is expanding, there is simply no liability in purchasing a HDB, the only thing is the 99 years leasing, which in most cases, HDB would have enblocked it before 50 years.