One of the major mistakes that LKY n LHL has been doing...
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Originally posted by hotgunner:
An honourable opposition PM? How do you know he/she wants to take power, enrich the party and its supporters' coffers, leave office whatever the reason and enjoy the good life. What about the ordinary working men and women, why should they bother. Take the money and run.
Look at the USA, i'm not even sure who's running the government right now. The Democrats or the financial oligarchy. And yes, many american politicans do hold positions or are associates of big corporations and wall street.
There are honourable men out there, not everybody is materialistic like you made it out to be. What would the world be if everybody out there is either a thief or a robber?
Why do people of less honourable standing always end up in positions of power? It's called Adverse Selection. You need to have a system to limit this Adverse Selection.
What is the primary duty of a government? To run businesses or govern the country? Try to distinguish them, not every government is a business corporation.
Are these American politicians holding positions in big corporations appointed by the President; or did they gained their positions by virtue of their abilities? That's the difference between meritocracy and cronyism.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
There are honourable men out there, not everybody is materialistic like you made it out to be. What would the world be if everybody out there is either a thief or a robber?
What is the primary duty of a government? To run businesses or govern the country? Try to distinguish them, not every government is a business corporation.
Are these American politicians holding positions in big corporations appointed by the President; or did they gained their positions by virtue of their abilities? That's the difference between meritocracy and cronyism.
Materialism is innate in everyone, it is an outright lie to deny that. What would the world be when everyone wants goes into finance and business, who is going to do the real work. Why should I labour for a measly wage when i got all the bureaucratic apparatus to play with.
That reminds me of Orwell's works. Is it possible to govern for the good of the people without upsetting your fellow elites? If the majority of Singaporeans feel they are entitled to a pay raise, will the government sucuumb to the citizens' request or will they work with the companies and trade unions bureaucracy. Under the frameworks of capitalism, the government has to run like a business corporation.
E.g. Wasn't Timothy Geithner appointed by Obama as his secretary of the treasury? What is the background of Timothy Geithner, a former wall street associate. Absurd to suggest meritocracy exists without social equality. Whether you like it or not, cronyism do exist because today's democracy is a dictatorship of the elites.
In conclusion, nothing will change unless an international worldwide revolution occurs.
In response to your late entry on adverse selection, that's why democracy has to evolve. Read wikipedia on the merits of a direct democracy.
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Originally posted by hotgunner:
Materialism is innate in everyone, it is an outright lie to deny that. What would the world be when everyone wants goes into finance and business, who is going to do the real work. Why should I labour for a measly wage when i got all the bureaucratic apparatus to play with.
That reminds me of Orwell's works. Is it possible to govern for the good of the people without upsetting your fellow elites? If the majority of Singaporeans feel they are entitled to a pay raise, will the government sucuumb to the citizens' request or will they work with the companies and trade unions bureaucracy. Under the frameworks of capitalism, the government has to run like a business corporation.
E.g. Wasn't Timothy Geithner appointed by Obama as his secretary of the treasury? What is the background of Timothy Geithner, a former wall street associate. Absurd to suggest meritocracy exists without social equality. Whether you like it or not, cronyism do exist because today's democracy is a dictatorship of the elites.
In conclusion, nothing will change unless an international worldwide revolution occurs.
In response to your late entry on adverse selection, that's why democracy has to evolve. Read wikipedia on the merits of a direct democracy.
Like I said, not everybody betrays their morals for money. Just because the current politicians in power are robbers does not mean that all politicians are robbers.Hundreds of Argentines have been donating to a taxi driver who found a bag with $32,500 (£21,600) in cash in his taxi and returned it to its owners.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8039240.stm
Another honest taxi driver
She gave him just a 15-pence tip, but a New York cabbie didn't hesitate before tracking down a passenger to return 31 diamond rings she had left behind.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-434798/NY-taxi-driver-returns-diamonds.html
First of all, the government doesn't control all the businesses. Secondly, if everybody gets a pay rise, everybody will be left with the same purchasing power as before.
Under the framework of capitalism a government has to be run like a business corporation? Do you have any references for this statement? Under capitalism, if they follow the laissez faire doctrine, they should keep from interfering in the market place.The general meaning of Laissez-faire (pronunciation: French,
[lÉ›sefÉ›Ê�] (help·info); English, ËŒleɪseɪˈfɛər (help·info)) is to allow events to take their own course, or to let people do what they choose. The term is a French phrase literally meaning "let do" or "leave it to be". In economics, it has become a doctrine that holds that the state should seldom or never intervene in the marketplace.[1][2]The term is often used to refer to various economic philosophies and political philosophies which seek to minimize or eliminate government intervention in most or all aspects of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire
You are obviously confused with political appointments and business appointments. Temasek, GICs, GLCs are business entities, they are not government institutions. MAS and SPF are government institutions.
Since when I suggest, "meritocracy can exist without social equality"? Please quote me.
Like I said above, you got confused with political appointments and business appointments. There won't be issues if you appoint someone working as a Wall Street Analyst to the Treasury, it would be strange if you appoint your wife (an Engineer) to Freddie Mac.International Revolution? Aren't you abit extreme, there are no such requirements. If your house has issue in which how you things are run, you only need to make changes to your house, no need to change your neighbours too.
Like I said before, the form of government you are endorsing will never happen in the current one, old man has said before, he will not take the citizens' issues into consideration when making decisions, he will do what he wants.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Like I said, not everybody betrays their morals for money. Just because the current politicians in power are robbers does not mean that all politicians are robbers.Hundreds of Argentines have been donating to a taxi driver who found a bag with $32,500 (£21,600) in cash in his taxi and returned it to its owners.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8039240.stm
Another honest taxi driver
She gave him just a 15-pence tip, but a New York cabbie didn't hesitate before tracking down a passenger to return 31 diamond rings she had left behind.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-434798/NY-taxi-driver-returns-diamonds.html
First of all, the government doesn't control all the businesses. Secondly, if everybody gets a pay rise, everybody will be left with the same purchasing power as before.
Under the framework of capitalism a
government has to be run like a business corporation? Do you have
any references for this statement? Under capitalism, if they follow the laissez
faire doctrine, they should keep from interfering in the market
place.The general meaning of Laissez-faire (pronunciation: French,
[lÉ›sefÉ›Ê�] (help·info);
English, ËŒleɪseɪˈfɛər (help·info)) is to
allow events to take their own course, or to let people do what
they choose. The term is a French phrase literally meaning
"let do" or "leave it to be". In economics, it has become a
doctrine that holds that the state should seldom or never intervene
in the marketplace.[1][2]The term is often used to refer to various economic philosophies and political philosophies which seek to minimize or eliminate government intervention in most or all aspects of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire
You are obviously confused with political appointments and business appointments. Temasek, GICs, GLCs are business entities, they are not government institutions. MAS and SPF are government institutions.
Since when I suggest, "meritocracy can exist without social equality"? Please quote me.
Like I said above, you got confused with
political appointments and business appointments. There won't be
issues if you appoint someone working as a Wall Street
Analyst to the Treasury, it would be strange if you appoint your
wife (an Engineer) to Freddie Mac.International Revolution? Aren't you abit extreme, there are no such requirements. If your house has issue in which how you things are run, you only need to make changes to your house, no need to change your neighbours too.
Like I said before, the form of government you are endorsing will never happen in the current one, old man has said before, he will not take the citizens' issues into consideration when making decisions, he will do what he wants.
Now this is getting all too silly and I know where it will lead to. I just like to say this, when the conditions exist for exploitation leading to social injustice, there will never be peace. Change these conditions and we may all have a better society for future generations. Firstly, judging on your last statement, I don't know why you still think I'm a PAP sympathizer, I'm not. Secondly, I hope you are objective enough to understand capitalism has failed the majority of people in this world, and any so called change will not happen without international socialism and direct democracy (this is my opinion). This is my political perspective.
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Originally posted by hotgunner:
Now this is getting all too silly and I know where it will lead to. I just like to say this, when the conditions exist for exploitation leading to social injustice, there will never be peace. Change these conditions and we may all have a better society for future generations. Firstly, judging on your last statement, I don't know why you still think I'm a PAP sympathizer, I'm not. Secondly, I hope you are objective enough to understand capitalism has failed the majority of people in this world, and any so called change will not happen without international socialism and direct democracy (this is my opinion). This is my political perspective.
Firstly, before international socialism and direct democracy can happen - it must take place at the local level.Secondly, for anything to happen - the Citizens has to reclaim their political rights, and use those rights to assert themselves and correct the wrongs in the local community.
It is always the "chicken and egg" question.
Nothing happens unless the first energetic impulse is made with a decision.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Firstly, before international socialism and direct democracy can happen - it must take place at the local level.Secondly, for anything to happen - the Citizens has to reclaim their political rights, and use those rights to assert themselves and correct the wrongs in the local community.
It is always the "chicken and egg" question.
Nothing happens unless the first energetic impulse is made with a decision.
It is very dependent on what the opposition parties stand for. As of now, LKY can rest on his laurel. And we all know LKY hates... Atobe, let's stick to one thread, it's essentially the same discussion.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
Firstly, before international socialism and direct democracy can happen - it must take place at the local level.Secondly, for anything to happen - the Citizens has to reclaim their political rights, and use those rights to assert themselves and correct the wrongs in the local community.
It is always the "chicken and egg" question.
Nothing happens unless the first energetic impulse is made with a decision.
What political rights do you want, you can alway register yourself as an opposition candidate, create a party legally, set up your blog, facebook or other means of communication to deliver your words, gather supports and make yourself a government if you get elected.
There is nothing about chicken and egg, this is not a question, because it got no answer. The political framework is well and legally structured, if you cannot beat them, dun accuse other, it is either you join them, or position yourself with more energe impulses, smart and better in the next term.
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Originally posted by deepak.c:
Like I said, not everybody betrays their morals for money. Just because the current politicians in power are robbers does not mean that all politicians are robbers.Hundreds of Argentines have been donating to a taxi driver who found a bag with $32,500 (£21,600) in cash in his taxi and returned it to its owners.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8039240.stm
Another honest taxi driver
She gave him just a 15-pence tip, but a New York cabbie didn't hesitate before tracking down a passenger to return 31 diamond rings she had left behind.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-434798/NY-taxi-driver-returns-diamonds.html
First of all, the government doesn't control all the businesses. Secondly, if everybody gets a pay rise, everybody will be left with the same purchasing power as before.
Under the framework of capitalism a government has to be run like a business corporation? Do you have any references for this statement? Under capitalism, if they follow the laissez faire doctrine, they should keep from interfering in the market place.The general meaning of Laissez-faire (pronunciation: French,
[lÉ›sefÉ›Ê�] (help·info); English, ËŒleɪseɪˈfɛər (help·info)) is to allow events to take their own course, or to let people do what they choose. The term is a French phrase literally meaning "let do" or "leave it to be". In economics, it has become a doctrine that holds that the state should seldom or never intervene in the marketplace.[1][2]The term is often used to refer to various economic philosophies and political philosophies which seek to minimize or eliminate government intervention in most or all aspects of society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire
You are obviously confused with political appointments and business appointments. Temasek, GICs, GLCs are business entities, they are not government institutions. MAS and SPF are government institutions.
Since when I suggest, "meritocracy can exist without social equality"? Please quote me.
Like I said above, you got confused with political appointments and business appointments. There won't be issues if you appoint someone working as a Wall Street Analyst to the Treasury, it would be strange if you appoint your wife (an Engineer) to Freddie Mac.International Revolution? Aren't you abit extreme, there are no such requirements. If your house has issue in which how you things are run, you only need to make changes to your house, no need to change your neighbours too.
Like I said before, the form of government you are endorsing will never happen in the current one, old man has said before, he will not take the citizens' issues into consideration when making decisions, he will do what he wants.
Singaporeans do donate to the poor directly, as always, some TV or shows that provide a geninue cases of handicap childrens and struggling parents get overwhelming support from the citizens of Singapore, we do have a heart, a compassion and a care for others too. But of cos the NKF and Renci saga had totally put us in shame and deter us from donating to charity but rather prefer to donate directly. I go to NUH and donate both in monetary and gifts to cancer childrens directly instead giving to what Cancer society which may turn up with another monk or CEO cases.Our Comfort taxis daily return of customer goods is about 7 cases, be it laptop, check, cash, h/p etc etc..so far we hadn't have any complain for lost of good in taxis. So, what is the big deal to single out someone in Argentina or NY cabby doing good, aren't we better?
And if you misunderstood LKY, please dun add pepper and salt, LKY did not said he dun care what citizen think and just make his decision, he wants his ministers to engage the public, gather feedback, and from there, he make his decision. Well, someone has to make a final decision in everything right? And I am afraid to tell you that his decision is alway good for singapore, maybe some are right at that point of time but reflected wrong at this present point of time, enviroment change, so when he changing his decision, you all keep saying he twists and turns. But then, so far he is so good in the eyes of the public, except for a few peoples here who really hate him from the very start and some oldies grumbling as usual, there is nothing wrong and everyone is living in peace.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
Singaporeans do donate to the poor directly, as always, some TV or shows that provide a geninue cases of handicap childrens and struggling parents get overwhelming support from the citizens of Singapore, we do have a heart, a compassion and a care for others too. But of cos the NKF and Renci saga had totally put us in shame and deter us from donating to charity but rather prefer to donate directly. I go to NUH and donate both in monetary and gifts to cancer childrens directly instead giving to what Cancer society which may turn up with another monk or CEO cases.Our Comfort taxis daily return of customer goods is about 7 cases, be it laptop, check, cash, h/p etc etc..so far we hadn't have any complain for lost of good in taxis. So, what is the big deal to single out someone in Argentina or NY cabby doing good, aren't we better?
And if you misunderstood LKY, please dun add pepper and salt, LKY did not said he dun care what citizen think and just make his decision, he wants his ministers to engage the public, gather feedback, and from there, he make his decision. Well, someone has to make a final decision in everything right? And I am afraid to tell you that his decision is alway good for singapore, maybe some are right at that point of time but reflected wrong at this present point of time, enviroment change, so when he changing his decision, you all keep saying he twists and turns. But then, so far he is so good in the eyes of the public, except for a few peoples here who really hate him from the very start and some oldies grumbling as usual, there is nothing wrong and everyone is living in peace.
Why you so affected whenever people mentioned about LKY? If you are bootlicking LKY does not mean that people cannot expose the shit of LKY.Go to PAP website, you will be much more happier than here.
YOu are forever contributing rubbish here to disrupt discussion. Whore!
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deepak.c wrote:
You are obviously confused with political appointments and business appointments. Temasek, GICs, GLCs are business entities, they are not government institutions. MAS and SPF are government institution.
Since when I suggest, "meritocracy can exist without social equality"? Please quote me.
Like I said above, you got confused with
political appointments and business appointments. There won't be
issues if you appoint someone working as a Wall Street
Analyst to the Treasury, it would be strange if you appoint your
wife (an Engineer) to Freddie Mac.Seriously, I know this is a speakers' forum and you are entitled to your views but please respect your fellow forumers. Using words like "obviously confused" and "since when i suggest" does not facilitate discussion and only lead to a flame war. I've sent you a private message but you did not reply so I just like to make it clear here.
With all due respect, our government, just like any other world governments represent big corporations and financial institutions. It is of no surprise if any world leaders have positions across the corporate board. If I am indeed obviously confused, i seek your enlightenment.
Yes, you did not quote that, I did. My question here is how can meritocracy exist without social equality. E.g. I can pay to send my son to the "best" private school with the "best" teachers but those who cannot afford must be educated under the so called "bad" teachers. This might not be too true in Singapore but it's just an example.
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Originally posted by hotgunner:
That's exactly what is happening but what can be done? I don't see any viable opposition party in Singapore. As long as social inequality exist, people will always be unhappy!
Who creates or allow social inequality? -
Originally posted by Fantagf:
Who creates or allow social inequality?The dreadful social-economical system that organises our daily lives, capitalism, and the elites who weld or wants to weld this power.
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how many times i have to tell you all, the world can never be equal, since the dawn of mankind, we are never equal...if equal, then how come God sent me here, howcome I dun be born as Li Ka sing daughter, enjoy life with full of handsome hunks surrounding me instead of working in Joo chiat everynite shouting here and there and get cursed and scolded here by uncles and aunties...it is not about social economic or system of socialogy, it is simply, not and never will be equal with or without capital. Some dogs have better life than the other dogs, and some even better than man.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
how many times i have to tell you all, the world can never be equal, since the dawn of mankind, we are never equal...if equal, then how come God sent me here, howcome I dun be born as Li Ka sing daughter, enjoy life with full of handsome hunks surrounding me instead of working in Joo chiat everynite shouting here and there and get cursed and scolded here by uncles and aunties...it is not about social economic or system of socialogy, it is simply, not and never will be equal with or without capital. Some dogs have better life than the other dogs, and some even better than man.
ROTFLMAO!
The guttersnipe may well spend her days pouring Tiger and Carlsberg into scarred glasses for the uncles, but some days she gives just the slightest hint that there are some synapses there that haven't yet fused. Enough to keep the pretentious PoliSci students on their toes, leastways.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
ROTFLMAO!
The guttersnipe may well spend her days pouring Tiger and Carlsberg into scarred glasses for the uncles, but some days she gives just the slightest hint that there are some synapses there that haven't yet fused. Enough to keep the pretentious PoliSci students on their toes, leastways.
Omg, the mama is here.Yo, so what is equality in your mama world?
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Originally posted by angel7030:
how many times i have to tell you all, the world can never be equal, since the dawn of mankind, we are never equal...if equal, then how come God sent me here, howcome I dun be born as Li Ka sing daughter, enjoy life with full of handsome hunks surrounding me instead of working in Joo chiat everynite shouting here and there and get cursed and scolded here by uncles and aunties...it is not about social economic or system of socialogy, it is simply, not and never will be equal with or without capital. Some dogs have better life than the other dogs, and some even better than man.
Some whores live to a ripe old age while other pathetic whores like angel7030 die a young age and a horrible death too from AIDS.So you are right that the world is never equal
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automator, I, angel7030 and maskedangel are the three angels now, so I hope you can tone down your rhetoric against angel7030. Give us some face, thank you.
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Originally posted by angel3070:
automator, I, angel7030 and maskedangel are the three angels now, so I hope you can tone down your rhetoric against angel7030. Give us some face, thank you.
I can give face to u but I can't give face to your mother whore angel7030 -
Please I tolong you automator, angel7030 last time behaved like whore, pissed you off, but now angel7030, maskedangel and me are part of the three angels so we must unite together.
Please stop attacking angel7030. Thanks.
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Originally posted by angel3070:
Please I tolong you automator, angel7030 last time behaved like whore, pissed you off, but now angel7030, maskedangel and me are part of the three angels so we must unite together.
Please stop attacking angel7030. Thanks.
So u admit that angel7030, angel3070 and maskedangel are the same person -
We are the three charlie angels.
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Originally posted by angel3070:
We are the three charlie angels.
The three clones lah -
Originally posted by automator:
Some whores live to a ripe old age while other pathetic whores like angel7030 die a young age and a horrible death too from AIDS.So you are right that the world is never equal
i dun really care what you said about me, that is not important, but just no good for yourself.The world is deem perfect by humankind, but it is actually never be in the state of equilibrium. The way, we human took on animals as slaves, foods and even gifts to a state of extinction, you dare to say the world is equal???
In communion world, the leaders control the pleasants, they voice out that they all are equal, but there is still a hierrachy, there is still a leader palace, there is still discrimination, there is still command and obeying problem, question on why i have to listen to you and not you listen to me, and there is still reasoning on why they get more ration and we get less. The world had tested equality thru Communion ideology, but failed miserably resulting in many dictatorial ending. Then is shift itself to Capitalism Democracy, a more vibrant and liberal system, you are free to roam the world, if you work, you get pay, if you are bold and are high achievers, you got the opportunities to be rich, or be a great leader depend on how peoples look at you, you have the opportunities to move from class to class depend on your effort and opportunity given. The lower class work for the higher class and the higher class paid them thru their capital gains. Thou it is still not equal, but so far, we are at this position. Till the day that someone can come up with a system that make us all equal, we all shall remain unequal, that is the fundamental of social science, you need to comprehend this basic in your mind before you engage any social political science arguement.
Even great scientist and mathematician also agree that we are in relativity only, there is no equality, just make so to look more equal, math is indefinite, the pie alone is infinite, how can there be exact equality. It is only the day, that this very world end, or the whole universe light off, then, in the total darkness and silence, equality is born.
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Originally posted by Fantagf:
Now the govt is into exploiting singaporeans, retrain them and pay them low salary.
They are brainwashing singaporeans that it is the employment trend these days for employees to work a few jobs in the same positions and get low pay. What the shit, they overpay themselves world class salary while the singaporeans are exploited, lowly paid and oppressed. Damn it, PAP!
Ya la,that day i went for a property officer preview.The lady interview me say must wait for 2 weeks then reply me,if i succeed,i have to wait 2 weeks again for the course to start.Then,the course take around 1 month or so to complete.Then,they help u to match a job.
Alamak,i was looking for a job only,why put me through the torture?
Another experience i have about this type of course is when i apply for insurance agent.They said must take course n sit for exam.Then,they ask u to buy the books(The book not cheap ok,cost around $100 dollars).
Then after i study n go sit for the exam,the exam questions are like "A" level type of questions!!!Although it go multiple choice answer,but the English n the way they set the questions are damn deep n difficult.
I fail 1 time,i decided not to retake already,coz i dont know must take how many times then i can pass!!!And also,the bus fares that i take when attending the course n exam fees,havent calculate inside leh!!!
I heard some senior insurance agent said last time when u want to become insurance agent,the exam was very easy.True or not?Why now the government want to make the exam so difficult?
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Originally posted by angel7030:
i dun really care what you said about me, that is not important, but just no good for yourself.The world is deem perfect by humankind, but it is actually never be in the state of equilibrium. The way, we human took on animals as slaves, foods and even gifts to a state of extinction, you dare to say the world is equal???
In communion world, the leaders control the pleasants, they voice out that they all are equal, but there is still a hierrachy, there is still a leader palace, there is still discrimination, there is still command and obeying problem, question on why i have to listen to you and not you listen to me, and there is still reasoning on why they get more ration and we get less. The world had tested equality thru Communion ideology, but failed miserably resulting in many dictatorial ending. Then is shift itself to Capitalism Democracy, a more vibrant and liberal system, you are free to roam the world, if you work, you get pay, if you are bold and are high achievers, you got the opportunities to be rich, or be a great leader depend on how peoples look at you, you have the opportunities to move from class to class depend on your effort and opportunity given. The lower class work for the higher class and the higher class paid them thru their capital gains. Thou it is still not equal, but so far, we are at this position. Till the day that someone can come up with a system that make us all equal, we all shall remain unequal, that is the fundamental of social science, you need to comprehend this basic in your mind before you engage any social political science arguement.
Even great scientist and mathematician also agree that we are in relativity only, there is no equality, just make so to look more equal, math is indefinite, the pie alone is infinite, how can there be exact equality. It is only the day, that this very world end, or the whole universe light off, then, in the total darkness and silence, equality is born.
im just curious but which great scientist and mathematician said that?