DPJ did it in Japan.Can we do a "DPJ" in Singapore?
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DPJ did it after half a century of LDP rule.LDP was quite similar to our PAP in Japanese political arena.After so long finally it'd succumbed to the people power to change cos the LDP had been there for far too long and their continuous success in past elections had made them unreachable and were not listening to the people as before when they were in the beginning.
With the immediate congratulatory from our leaders to the Japanese new party victors,it seems that there is a sense sceptism about our leaders here that the same fate could be a reality here?
The situations and circumstances are quite similar here but can this happen here?
Will Singaporeans be as brave as The Japanese to try out a total new party or a group of new parties after so long and so dependent on gov?
The older/elder generations of electorates and new citizens and a particular ethnic group would almost certain to cast the vote to PAP.
Coupled with unfair and bias media coverage,these are people only know PAP as the gov.
Will our Reform Party,Workers Party,SDP,SDA,SPP etc..work on this thread from the Japanese?
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Well... when the family business ran out of heir. or sg'rean finally wake up.
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Got 1 Jap viewer said that the DPJ was actually a shadow self of LDP..
as this party was actually formed by former LDP lawmaker..
i dunoe hw true..
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hou nan lo
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Originally posted by a-Lost-9uY:
Got 1 Jap viewer said that the DPJ was actually a shadow self of LDP..
as this party was actually formed by former LDP lawmaker..
i dunoe hw true..
Hatoyama’s Win Pits Stanford PhD Against Bureaucrats
By Stuart Biggs
Aug. 31 (Bloomberg) -- Yukio Hatoyama, who ended 50 years of single-party rule with vows to arrest Japan’s decay and tame its bureaucracy, is an unlikely champion of change: His family and political roots run deep in the party he defeated.
Hatoyama’s Democratic Party of Japan almost tripled its seats in yesterday’s election, public broadcaster NHK projected, winning a lower-house majority for the first time. The Liberal Democratic Party, out of power for just 10 months since 1955, lost almost two-thirds of its seats.
“We want to change the bureaucrat-led politics” that has existed in Japan for 140 years, Hatoyama told reporters today. “I’m grateful for the courage the Japanese people have shown.”
Hatoyama, who holds a Ph.D. in engineering from Stanford University near Palo Alto, California, pledges to end the government’s reliance on an unelected bureaucracy, which he says hasn’t worked in the public interest. Pre-election polls showed support for his plans to unify the fragmented pension system and increase the number of doctors.
The DPJ is a mix of former LDP lawmakers, ex-socialists, one-time bureaucrats and trade unionists. It is a “broad church” whose competing constituents have made policy priorities difficult to identify, according to Jonathan Allum, a strategist with KBC Financial Products in London.
No French Revolution
“This isn’t the French Revolution, these are not wide-eyed radicals,” Allum said in an interview. “The leaders of the DPJ have been around for a number of years and for a number of parties. These are pretty mainstream people.”
Japan already has the world’s most rapidly aging society and the largest public debt, projected to reach almost 200 percent of gross domestic product next year. Unemployment rose to an all-time high of 5.7 percent in July, household spending fell 2 percent and consumer prices dropped a record 2.2 percent.
“I want a regime change,” Minetaka Omura, a 24-year-old electrician, said yesterday after voting for the DPJ in Tokyo. “The economy is bad, and I want the DPJ to stop spending tax money for public works and shift it to welfare.”
Voters have given Hatoyama a mandate to switch priorities from aiding the companies that built Japan’s $4.9 trillion economy to helping families cope in a society where almost a quarter of the population will be over 65 by 2014. To encourage people to have children, the DPJ says it will increase child support and lower education costs, paying for this by slashing outlays on roads, bridges and public works.
People, Not Concrete
“The whole idea of people rather than concrete, and, ‘Let’s be nicer to the Japanese population,’ could be immensely positive in the long term,” said Philip Whittome, who manages Japanese stocks at Investec Asset Management in London. “The election might lead to some changes in how Japan is run in ways that are underappreciated by the foreign investment community.”
Not only is Hatoyama, 62, a former LDP lawmaker; his grandfather founded the party and served as its first prime minister, his father was foreign minister and his younger brother served in the last administration.
Hatoyama left the LDP in 1993 to form a party in a coalition that briefly took power. In 1998 he helped found the DPJ. He became the party’s candidate for prime minister less than four months ago when Ichiro Ozawa, a fellow ex-LDP lawmaker, was forced to resign as DPJ leader over a campaign finance scandal.
At Otsuka station in Tokyo, about 1,500 supporters turned out on Aug. 25, shouting “Prime Minister Hatoyama” and cheering as he told jokes about leaving the party his grandfather founded.
Restoring Ties
He laid out his opposition to red tape in a 1997 book “We Reject Bureaucrats’ Leadership,” co-written with DPJ vice president, Naoto Kan. His speeches and essays also contain references to promoting “fraternity,” referring to the need to restore communities in Japan and improve ties within Asia.
The DPJ says its promises, which also include eliminating highway tolls, will cost 16.8 trillion yen ($179 billion) in 2013. The party has pledged not to raise the 5 percent consumption tax and instead will stay within the existing budget by cutting spending on public works, reducing the number of bureaucrats and tapping the special accounts they manage.
Hatoyama “will bear the heavy responsibility of managing the economy,” the Yomiuri, Japan’s largest daily newspaper, said in an editorial.
The Nikkei-225 Stock Average remains at a quarter of its 1989 peak and the LDP’s effort to spend its way out of Japan’s ‘Lost Decade’ in the 1990s inflated debt.
The LDP’s support plummeted, accelerated by the loss of hundreds of thousands of public pension records at a time when the public was becoming increasingly concerned about welfare and health care. There have been more deaths than births in Japan’s population of 127 million in three out of the last four years.
Into the Ministries
To break up a system that allowed bureaucrats, corporations and politicians to share power, the DPJ pledges to send 100 lawmakers into government ministries. It also will ban retiring civil servants from joining construction companies and other industries they regulated, a practice known as “Descending from Heaven.”
“It may be difficult for the DPJ,” said Hiroyuki Kishi, a former trade ministry civil servant and professor of economic policy at Tokyo’s Keio University. “When you confront bureaucrats, knowledge and information determine the battle.”
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If only our leader is half like him. Or at least claim to be. At least I sleep better at night.
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name me those worthy opposition leaders that has the vision to bring Singapore to a higher level.
I see none.
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Please lah, Hatoyama is a stanford-educated elite fella who comes from an extremely wealthy industrialist family. HIs family includes former prime ministers and other high-ranking politicians who have also pretty much used nepotistic connections to get their way up.
Aso, who Japan has just gotten rid off is ALSO a stanford-educated elite fella who comes from an extremely wealthy industrialist family. HIs family includes former prime ministers and other high-ranking politicians who have also pretty much used nepotistic connections to get their way up.
So basically it's one family-business taken over by another. The DPJ had taken over power once before, but power was quickly restored to the LDP simply because the people realized that the DPJ were making grand promises which were impractical and they couldn't keep.
Hatoyama has also made promises to the electorate for great changes, which are unlikely to ever see the light of day.
And the latest bit of news from the Hatoyamas themselves?
"The Hatoyamas have a son, Kiichiro, 33, who is an engineering expert currently studying in Moscow. ‘‘I think he has potential as a politician,’’ she said."
Here we go again.
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Originally posted by Tsh2005:
DPJ did it after half a century of LDP rule.LDP was quite similar to our PAP in Japanese political arena.After so long finally it'd succumbed to the people power to change cos the LDP had been there for far too long and their continuous success in past elections had made them unreachable and were not listening to the people as before when they were in the beginning.
With the immediate congratulatory from our leaders to the Japanese new party victors,it seems that there is a sense sceptism about our leaders here that the same fate could be a reality here?
The situations and circumstances are quite similar here but can this happen here?
Will Singaporeans be as brave as The Japanese to try out a total new party or a group of new parties after so long and so dependent on gov?
The older/elder generations of electorates and new citizens and a particular ethnic group would almost certain to cast the vote to PAP.
Coupled with unfair and bias media coverage,these are people only know PAP as the gov.
Will our Reform Party,Workers Party,SDP,SDA,SPP etc..work on this thread from the Japanese?
If only Singapore got AV models like the jap, free porns and a homogenous population, then we can talk about opposition adopting jap model of success.
We cannot base on the asumption of Jap political model and place it in here,..there is a lot of differences in both behaviorial and mindset of the citizen btw singapore and jap. More so is the cultural differences, they also got a history of different aspect compare to us. If you will to ask our Reform Party or all oppositions to work on the japanese model here, they are bound to loose. Each country has it own unique political situation and background. You cannot say they did it and we also can do it...we eat ikan bilis ya, they eat sushi hor..
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Originally posted by angel7030:
If only Singapore got AV models like the jap, free porns and a homogenous population, then we can talk about opposition adopting jap model of success.
We cannot base on the asumption of Jap political model and place it in here,..there is a lot of differences in both behaviorial and mindset of the citizen btw singapore and jap. More so is the cultural differences, they also got a history of different aspect compare to us. If you will to ask our Reform Party or all oppositions to work on the japanese model here, they are bound to loose. Each country has it own unique political situation and background. You cannot say they did it and we also can do it...we eat ikan bilis ya, they eat sushi hor..
Don't talk rubbish about what the other forumer said.
Your business in pub is bad you can always bring in Jap AV stars to work in your pub to boost business.
Why must you always stop people from expressing their views, facts and so on? ARe you on mission here to disrupt discussions and make sure we only praise PAP?
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Originally posted by citymax:
name me those worthy opposition leaders that has the vision to bring Singapore to a higher level.
I see none.
That may be true.But I'm thinking, "true heroes rise from the ashes of chaos".
Okay wait I guess that was irrelevant, but what I mean is that prodigies, geniuses and whatnots (including political idealists like Hitler) spring from, literally nowhere; out of the blue (like there wasn't a Hitler for every generation of political leaders in Germany).
If there was constantly a competent opposition party/leader against the PAP, Singapore itself might haved turned out a lot different, and perhaps less stable than what it is now.
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Indonesia, Malaysia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan all progressed to more democratic societies.
Even Myanmar going through political reform.
Only we are stuck with this repressive one party bullshit.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
If only Singapore got AV models like the jap, free porns and a homogenous population, then we can talk about opposition adopting jap model of success.
We cannot base on the asumption of Jap political model and place it in here,..there is a lot of differences in both behaviorial and mindset of the citizen btw singapore and jap. More so is the cultural differences, they also got a history of different aspect compare to us. If you will to ask our Reform Party or all oppositions to work on the japanese model here, they are bound to loose. Each country has it own unique political situation and background. You cannot say they did it and we also can do it...we eat ikan bilis ya, they eat sushi hor..
Why dun u employ jap women as ur employees?
Actually singaporean men very very interested.
Sick of e china n viet babes... hahaha.
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Originally posted by angel7030:
If only Singapore got AV models like the jap, free porns and a homogenous population, then we can talk about opposition adopting jap model of success.
What has Japanese AV models, free porns and homogenous population got to do with having Opposition in Parliament ?
We cannot base on the asumption of Jap political model and place it in here,..there is a lot of differences in both behaviorial and mindset of the citizen btw singapore and jap. More so is the cultural differences, they also got a history of different aspect compare to us. If you will to ask our Reform Party or all oppositions to work on the japanese model here, they are bound to loose. Each country has it own unique political situation and background. You cannot say they did it and we also can do it...we eat ikan bilis ya, they eat sushi hor..
If the Japanese have a business model of bars offering the services of girls from Korea, Philippines, Vietnam and Taiwan, why are you also in the same business of operating a bar and also offering Asian Girls to service your customers ?
Are the behavior and mindset of your Singaporean customers any different from the Japanese customers who visit the bars in Japan ?
Are human needs for employment and economic security any different ?
The Japanese are experiencing a growing population of aging Japanese and a shrinking population - which has implications to the Japanese economy, social and health care infrastructure that include the resources to support their pension and insurance systems too.
The Japanese have also been sensing a worsening quality of life that has been heightened by the economic doldrum that had stretched for more then 10 years.
They are also seeing a growing inequality in income and in economic opportunities.
Are these not similar urgent issues that concern Singaporeans today ?
What is the purpose of your daily routine in spreading your useless ignorance across every thread ?
Is there any prize to be the Champion with the largest accumulated number of dumb posts in this SgForums ?
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Replying to the topic can we do a "DPJ" in Singapore, I believe we can but what will change? Will the laws that organise our social-economical way of life change? The reason why most Japanese vote for the DPJ rather than the ruling LDP party is because they see no alternatives and choose the lesser of two evils. Don't forget the DPJ was founded by ex-politicians of the LDP. They will employ different tactics but essentially the same strategy so what will actually change? It'll only be a matter of time before the japanese public, compounded by economical and social miseries, unlease their displeasure against the new government. Don't believe in the fallacy all politicians around the world propagate. Recovery is not at hand for normal working people, in fact just like the USA and around the world, ordinary lives will not change and will in fact get worse. Social inequality is here to stay unless... (Shall stop here as I'm new and might not be aware of existing forum rules, besides it will not be topic related.)
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Originally posted by hotgunner:
Replying to the topic can we do a "DPJ" in Singapore, I believe we can but what will change? Will the laws that organise our social-economical way of life change? The reason why most Japanese vote for the DPJ rather than the ruling LDP party is because they see no alternatives and choose the lesser of two evils. Don't forget the DPJ was founded by ex-politicians of the LDP. They will employ different tactics but essentially the same strategy so what will actually change? It'll only be a matter of time before the japanese public, compounded by economical and social miseries, unlease their displeasure against the new government. Don't believe in the fallacy all politicians around the world propagate. Recovery is not at hand for normal working people, in fact just like the USA and around the world, ordinary lives will not change and will in fact get worse. Social inequality is here to stay unless... (Shall stop here as I'm new and might not be aware of existing forum rules, besides it will not be topic related.)
Interesting ..... and you should continue with your thoughts..
Although one can claim that politicians are politicians in their ways, one cannot possibly paint all with a broad stroke of the brush.
The new government formed by DPJ may consist of politicians from the LDP, but these are ex-LDP politicians who tried and failed to bring changes to the old style of politics that LDP insist to follow for the last 50 over years.
They left the LDP to form their respective political parties to bring about changes that they think will have solved Japans present problems.
The new designated PM Yukio Hatoyama had indicated that the first thing he will change is to neutralise the all powerful Japanese Civil Service who makes all the policy decisions for the Elected Government to approve, and will resist all attempts by the Elected Government to amend such policies.
PM Yukio Hatogama intend to take back the authority of policy making from the unelected Civil Servants who are not answerable to the Japanese Citizens, and have been stubbornly resisting change.
One can even say that the present problems in Japan is largely due to the unelected Civil Servants of the Japanese Bureaucracy.
Essentially - "Voters have given Hatoyama a mandate to switch priorities from aiding the companies that built Japan’s $4.9 trillion economy to helping families cope in a society where almost a quarter of the population will be over 65 by 2014. To encourage people to have children, the DPJ says it will increase child support and lower education costs, paying for this by slashing outlays on roads, bridges and public works."
In a global economy that is interdependent, if every country is to wait for the larger economies to correct their problems, and wait for the filter down effect to reach the smaller ones, who should the larger economies wait for - when they are similarly dependent on the larger global economy itself to be ship shape too ?
Should it not be the concerted effort of every single country to resolve their economic problems that would have different characteristics from the other economies and will require different solutions ?
It is disingenious for the Singapore PAP Ministers - paid more then a million dollars in wages - to claim that Singapore need to depend on the recovery of the US economy before we see any economic progress.
Two previous Economic Recovery Committees in 1987 and 1997 had recommended a list of actions prepared by their respective Sub-Committees but unfortunately not all of the recommendations were adopted in 1987, and 1997.
The refusal to make the recommended changes in 1987 and 1997 - has caused Singapore to be stuck in a repeated cycles of boom and bust every 5 to 10 years, and this problem is further accentuated with an aging population and a shrinking birth rate. This is further compounded by an influx of foreigners taking up citizenship to resolve the aging and shrinking population, but have resulted in a lowering in the quality of life, besides creating an inequality of income and opportunities.
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Although one can claim that politicians are politicians in their ways, one cannot possibly paint all with a broad stroke of the brush.
Ah my bad, what I was referring to was the economic recovery most politicians around the world tout.
Ok this is strange, I'd wrote an essay chunk in response to your reply and it's ALL GONE! Is there a word limit? Sigh.. oh well, my conclusion to all ordinary working folks around the world especially Singaporeans, be prepared to face the harsh repercussions and assault to living standards as "recovery" make headways. Don't expect a generous pay rise and bonuses any time soon. More poverty and social problems beset by the systemic breakdown in world capitalism will increase. There is also genuine concern towards problems arising from representative democracy that plague world politics.
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Eh i noticed that the forum tends to log you out if you spend too long a time being idle (probably when you're typin something)
So make sure you copy first before posting.
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Originally posted by hotgunner:
Although one can claim that politicians are politicians in their ways, one cannot possibly paint all with a broad stroke of the brush.
Ah my bad, what I was referring to was the economic recovery most politicians around the world tout.
Ok this is strange, I'd wrote an essay chunk in response to your reply and it's ALL GONE! Is there a word limit? Sigh.. oh well, my conclusion to all ordinary working folks around the world especially Singaporeans, be prepared to face the harsh repercussions and assault to living standards as "recovery" make headways. Don't expect a generous pay rise and bonuses any time soon. More poverty and social problems beset by the systemic breakdown in world capitalism will increase. There is also genuine concern towards problems arising from representative democracy that plague world politics.
"There is also genuine concern towards problems arising from representative democracy that plague world politics."
How can there be problems arising from representative democracy - that is seen to be plaguing world politics ?
If the ill effects of democracy is seen in the unruly and tedious push and pulls of politics as seen in the way it is practised in Thailand, Taiwan, Bangladesh, or any failed African States - are these in any way comparable to the sophisticatedly mature and disciplined societies of Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, Israel and even India, where democracy have seen them weather to economic storms plaguing the entire world ?
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Eh i noticed that the forum tends to log you out if you spend too long a time being idle (probably when you're typin something)
So make sure you copy first before posting.
Oh ok. Thanks for the advice.
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How can there be problems arising from representative democracy - that is seen to be plaguing world politics ?
If the ill effects of democracy is seen in the unruly and tedious push and pulls of politics as seen in the way it is practised in Thailand, Taiwan, Bangladesh, or any failed African States - are these in any way comparable to the sophisticatedly mature and disciplined societies of Switzerland, Sweden, Finland, Israel and even India, where democracy have seen them weather to economic storms plaguing the entire world ?
That is precisely what is happening, today's representative democracy represents big businesses and usually not what the majority wants. It is not healthy for a government consisting mainly with associates of financial oligarchs. Take a look at jeffersonian democracy in the US, on what grounds does the US government justifies its war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Terrorism? Osama Bin Laden? If that is so, why escalate the war into Pakistan? Where is Osama Bin Laden? How can you justify Israel as a mature, disciplined society when the government constantly rages war against the palestinians? I'm in favour of direct democracy simply because the current political system are so contradictory and does not work for the people anymore.
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Originally posted by hotgunner:
That is precisely what is happening, today's representative democracy represents big businesses and usually not what the majority wants. It is not healthy for a government consisting mainly with associates of financial oligarchs. Take a look at jeffersonian democracy in the US, on what grounds does the US government justifies its war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Terrorism? Osama Bin Laden? If that is so, why escalate the war into Pakistan? Where is Osama Bin Laden? How can you justify Israel as a mature, disciplined society when the government constantly rages war against the palestinians? I'm in favour of direct democracy simply because the current political system are so contradictory and does not work for the people anymore.
The Israelis Government constantly rages war against the Palestinians ?
The majority of the Arab states have not signed any peace agreement with Israel since the creation of the State of Israel, and with fundings to the Palestinians from Iran - that has vowed to exterminate the existence of Israel and all Jews - can the Palestinians make any headway to establish their own independent state ?
The longer that the Palestinians hold out against a peace deal - as Egypt and Jordan has concluded, they are giving the Israelis the strategic space in time and diplomacy to actually usurp the land which the Palestinians are claiming to be robbed.
Whatever the weakness of the Jefferson model in the politics of the US Democratic System - it is still better than the manipulated monopollisation of the entire three branches of Governance - as seen in countries such as Myanmar, Pakistan under Musharaf, Indonesia under Suharto, Zimbabwe under Mugabe, and Singapore under the PAP.
The Jefferson model of democracy allowed the Citizens to rule supreme, and the maturity and sophistication of the US citizens has not allowed the kind of manipulation that is evident in the monopolistic domination of ONE over everyone.
How should you want us to understand your meaning of "Direct Democracy" ?
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Ok we're going off topic here. Even though I'm not a US citizen, isn't it evident both major parties in the US represent big corporations and banks? I know many of my views do not conform to mainstream politics so you may want to read direct democracy on wikipedia. I appreciate your views but I simply believe nothing will change for the better in the current political spectrum.
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Originally posted by hotgunner:
Ok we're going off topic here. Even though I'm not a US citizen, isn't it evident both major parties in the US represent big corporations and banks? I know many of my views do not conform to mainstream politics so you may want to read direct democracy on wikipedia. I appreciate your views but I simply believe nothing will change for the better in the current political spectrum.
It is fine if you are using the meaning of "Direct Democracy" as given in Wikipedia, as I thought that you have some other exotic versions as there are many creative thinkers who has their own bogey versions too.If you were to narrow your appreciation of Democracy to the US experience of the the politicians being too cosy with the big corporations, and use it to demean the concept of democracy in its pristine form that has been practised in Switzerland, Sweden, India, Finland, South Korea, and now in Japan.
Can the current political spectrum in Singapore be better than a system that allow Citizens to make Government more responsible and answerable to the Citizens ?
As matters stand, this Government is no longer accountable to Singaporeans, and find the citizens to be no better than dumb, and animals to be trained, and why should the Elite Talents be held to ransom by the electorate ?
This is the position of MM LKY in his elitist position that require him to scheme for the last 15 years as to how to preserve his position, which explains even the extreme measure of giving the senior citizens 2 votes as he believe that the Senior Citizens are on his side.
The PAP sees Singaporeans no better as mere digits.
"If you don't include your women graduates in your breeding pool and leave them on the shelf, you would end up a more stupid society...So what happens? There will be less bright people to support dumb people in the next generation. That's a problem." -Lee Kuan Yew in 1983 National Day Rally
"One-man-one-vote is a most difficult form of government. From time to time the results can be erratic. People are sometimes fickle. They get bored with stable, steady improvements in life and in a reckless moment they vote for a change for change's sake. This is the danger for Singapore, not in this election, because the results cannot be a disaster this time. But it can be in the future." - Lee Kuan Yew, pre-election speech 1984
"Mine is a very matter-of-fact approach to the problem. If you can select a population and they're educated and they're properly brought up, then you don't have to use too much of the stick because they would already have been trained. It's like with dogs. You train it in a proper way from small. It will know that it's got to leave, go outside to pee and to defecate. No, we are not that kind of society. We had to train adult dogs who even today deliberately urinate in the lifts." - Lee Kuan Yew on Singapore society, The Man & His Ideas, 1997
"At the end of the day, we are so many digits in the machine. The point is – are these digits stronger than the competitors' digits?" - MM Lee Kuan Yew on Singapore workers, History of Singapore, 2005
"Low salaries will draw in the hypocrites who sweet talk their way into power in the name of public service, but once in charge will show their true colour, and ruin the country." - LKY on Minister's Pay, 2007
Have Singaporeans not seen the true colors by now ?
Was it not the low wages that existed in the late 1950s when ordinary citizens were involved in Politics ?
Perhaps LKY was an extra-ordinary citizen then.
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I reiterate that I am not in anyway opposed to the ideals of Jeffersonian Democracy and the American Revolution. They were afterall ideals for a better life. And it did give people hope for a change against monarchism and feudalism. However can one not see what has changed then and what is going on around the world right now? Isn't it a dictatorship by the elites? Just like in Japan and USA, countries that practice representative politics are just dominated by mainly two parties, both on the right in reality. I feel that in order to acheive an egalitarian society, citizens should be in no way held ransom to their elected government. If citizens participate in direct democracy, hold discussions and referendums, than such government is a voice for all, not just for the tiny few elites.
To Atobe, yes I may be narrow as I have my own limitations so do enlighten me.