Originally posted by *=Optimus=*:Haha, all these talks about SAF commandos versus Gurkhas really crack me up. Gurkhas troops are known to be one of the bravest group of warriors in the world. They have very strong undying loyalty to their employers (and who ever pays them in the service of course). As such they are willingly to die in battles. Stories of their near fanatical actions in battles and wars can be found on the internet. During the malayan battle Skihs and Gurkhas soldiers are the only groups in British army Japs fear and respect. That is why many countries in the world like to employ them as mercenaries, British and American for example. Haha I would imagine how these Gurkhas would have slice off heads of these commando boys’s with their sharp Kukri and these boys fleeing behind. Btw don’t flame me I’m only a MT line ORD personnel.
....so too was the pakistani terrorists said to be fierce hill tribe warriors, fought with each other for centuries, later with Brits and India, and much feared. They came to Singapore on a hijacked plane in 1991, thinking Singaporeans were easy meat.
But within 30secs upon entering, when most singaporeans were still asleep, it was the pakistani terrorists whom ended up on meat hooks, with courtesy by the Singaporean Commandos. All passengers on board the hijacked plane in Changi Airpot were saved, safe and sound.
And this is a published fact, but then, how much more would an MT line ORD personnel be expected to know?
Enjoy your cracking up, have fun, but live in peace. Be glad you are on our side.
(BTW, wasnt it the gurkhas whom were supposed to be guarding Mas Selamat when he escaped? So much for the 'sheathed kukri'. Not much use, was it? A bunch of them and couldnt even guard a lame terrorist.)
Originally posted by xtreyier:....so too was the pakistani terrorists said to be fierce warriors, fought with each other for centuries, with Brits and India, and much feared. They came to Singapore on a hijacked plane in 1991, thinking Singaporeans were easy meat.
But within 30secs upon entering, when most singaporeans were still asleep, it was the pakistani terrorists whom ended up on meat hooks, with courtesy by the Singaporean Commandos.
And this is a published fact, but then, how much more would an MT line ORD personnel be expected to know?
Enjoy your cracking up, have fun, but live in peace. Be glad you are on our side.
Pakistani dudes with only knives facing off dudes with MP5s? I wouldnt be betting on the Pakistanis. Probably fumbled and took the wrong plane....
Then again, our friends in Kopassus could also pull that off. They had done the same earlier in 1981, against more armed terrorists and with a hastily assembled CT team. The Op is a defining moment for the SAF commandos, but not highly impressive.
Okay... we dun assume then... then just give our votes to other parties then.
Originally posted by Man!x:Pakistani dudes with only knives facing off dudes with MP5s? I wouldnt be betting on the Pakistanis. Probably fumbled and took the wrong plane....
Then again, our friends in Kopassus could also pull that off. They had done the same earlier in 1981, against more armed terrorists and with a hastily assembled CT team. The Op is a defining moment for the SAF commandos, but not highly impressive.
knives? Remember, pal...the plane was fully loaded with highly inflammable jet fuel, the pakis had a full store of liquour and were ready to blow everyone to kingdom come, and yet those son of a bitches never had a chance to even light up a ciggie. They never even knew what hit them.
All terrorists dead and every single passenger ( mostly fellow singaporeans) saved is no mean feat. In fact, no other CT team in the world had ever achieve such a record.
But its ok if you dont take pride in what our men had done. They came unannounced, and disappeared unnoticed, asked for no recognition, but a job done for our people. And will do so again when the need arises, with no fanfare or accolade.
These are the Singaporean Commandos, of the past, the present and the future, under an even more efficient and effective 3G military command made up of our responsible fellow citizens, male and female, NSF and NSmen combined to protect our country from harm.
Originally posted by xtreyier:knives? Remember, pal...the plane was fully loaded with highly inflammable jet fuel, the pakis had a full store of liquour and were ready to blow everyone to kingdom come, and yet those son of a bitches never had a chance to even light up a ciggie. They never even knew what hit them.
All terrorists dead and every single passenger ( mostly fellow singaporeans) saved is no mean feat. In fact, no other CT team in the world had ever achieve such a record.
But its ok if you dont take pride in what our men had done. They came unannounced, and disappeared unnoticed, asked for no recognition, but a job done for our people. And will do so again when the need arises, with no fanfare or accolade. These are the Singaporean Commandos, of the past, the present and the future.
Apparently i was not aware an aircraft stores its JP5 fuel in the passenger compartment. If it is so, the past plane hijackings in history will have ended in flames.
As for pride, i think they did an excellent work. But that does not make them invincible.
Originally posted by Man!x:I dont think the PAP Govt will to utillise the SAF just to seize power if they lose an election. They will just nullify the polls and declare the PAP PM prime minister for life.Then again, the lack of the Posse Comitatus Act in Singapore increases the chance for this to happen. Then it boils down to each and every one of our soldiers to do the right thing.Gurkhas? I believe they exist here in Singapore just for tasks to sensitive for conscripts to handle like racial riots or protecting the PM and his inner circle. But dont belittle their capabilities. They are well known for being fierce in battle for centuries. Surrendering is not an option for them.
If the PAP will to do that, imagine what a stinking reputation they will leave behind to singapore and to other countries in this world too.
I will be glad if 1 day the PAP really use the Gurkhas to seize power.
After 40 years of forced conscripts, I am sure the majority of the soliders in SAF consisting of conscripts hates the PAP.
The conscripts can take this opportunity to fight with the Gurkhas.
No matter how powerful the Gurkhas are they only have guns or at most machine guns.
The SAF can send in their tanks and helicpoters and generades to bomb the Gurkhas into pieces and these pathetic Gurkhas guns can't even penerate the armour of the tanks.
Please, Please, do not, EVER, involve the military in a civil war. The arm forces are to protect the nation from external harm, period.
Settle your political issues with your friendly neighbourhood MPs or give them the boot. Call in the police, they are in charge of home security. Go to the ballot boxes to solve your political squabbles, but NEVER ever involve the military. I doubt if the military, made up of our fellow citizens would even consider such a horrid option.We all still have the right to vote in free elections. Excercise that right.
We aint Thais, but Singaporeans, an unique, intelligent, civilised and peaceful rule by law people.
Originally posted by automator:
If the PAP will to do that, imagine what a stinking reputation they will leave behind to singapore and to other countries in this world too.
I will be glad if 1 day the PAP really use the Gurkhas to seize power.
After 40 years of forced conscripts, I am sure the majority of the soliders in SAF consisting of conscripts hates the PAP.
The conscripts can take this opportunity to fight with the Gurkhas.
No matter how powerful the Gurkhas are they only have guns or at most machine guns.
The SAF can send in their tanks and helicpoters and generades to bomb the Gurkhas into pieces and these pathetic Gurkhas guns can't even penerate the armour of the tanks.
You will need a Oliver Cromwell to pull it off.
Thats why our generals are always political reliables, look at where they end up after retirement. Give a person with the ability to think outweighing political alignment a General rank and we would have a different political scenario here.
Originally posted by xtreyier:Please, Please, do not, EVER, involve the military in a civil war. The arm forces are to protect the nation from external harm, period.
Settle your political issues with your friendly neighbourhood MPs or give them the boot. Call in the police, they are in charge of home security. Go to the ballot boxes to solve your political squabbles, but NEVER ever involve the military. I doubt if the military, made up of our fellow citizens would even consider such a horrid option.We all still have the right to vote in free elections. Excercise that right.
We aint Thais, but Singaporeans, an unique, intelligent, civilised and peaceful rule by law people.
Tell that to Mr Harry Lee. He is the one who says the military will come in if PAP loses power.
Originally posted by Man!x:Tell that to Mr Harry Lee. He is the one who says the military will come in if PAP loses power.
MM Lee is a realist, and it would be hard to convince him through idealism.
When that day as envisoned by him happens, I for one will take off my uniform, put my weapon to safe, surrender my ammunition and commission to await for trial and a jail term, rather than to point my rifle at my fellow citizens, amongst them whom may be my own kin. I do honour my vow to the constitution and my oath to our pledge
But that's me, and may not be another's view. With trillions soon in our treasury as the economy recovers, and better yet, with a resourceful and intelligent people, there may be a nutcase waiting to take over, no matter how much salary he is paid now.
An insane amount of money and power for himself and his family name will drive one even more nuts, if he is in a position to do grab and hold it, thru force of arms and not the ballot box, as our current national administrators are obliged to do.
This is no fantasy, as I had seen with my own eyes of sons and daughters seizing corporate power from fathers and uncles over paltry millions on our shores. What more our treasury?
Shall we deplete immediately our treasury to prevent temptation then? No, because when shit happens, who will lend us money? Shall we do the Suharto Bow to foreign powers, slot like hell to pay back?
At the end of the day, whom can we depend on? Someone new? This, each voter must ask before casting the vote.
Originally posted by xtreyier:MM Lee is a realist, and it would be hard to convince him through idealism.
When that day as envisoned by him happens, I for one will take off my uniform, put my weapon to safe, surrender my ammunition and commission to await for trial and a jail term, rather than to point my rifle at my fellow citizens, amongst them whom may be my own kin. I do honour my vow to the constitution and my oath to our pledge
But that's me, and may not be another's view. With trillions soon in our treasury as the economy recovers, and better yet, with a resourceful and intelligent people, there may be a nutcase waiting to take over, no matter how much salary he is paid now.
An insane amount of money and power for himself and his family name will drive one even more nuts, if he is in a position to do grab and hold it, thru force of arms and not the ballot box, as our current national administrators are obliged to do.
This is no fantasy, as I had seen with my own eyes of sons and daughters seizing corporate power from fathers and uncles over paltry millions on our shores. What more our treasury?
Shall we deplete immediately our treasury to prevent temptation then? No, because when shit happens, who will lend us money? Shall we do the Suharto Bow to foreign powers, slot like hell to pay back?
At the end of the day, whom can we depend on? Someone new? This, each voter must ask before casting the vote.
LKY a realist ?
What does a whimsical person know about a complex personality such as LKY - when a lesser and simpler task of explaining what "IDEALISM" is about cannot even be accomplished ?
Does an opportunist like LKY understand what 'Idealism' is about or can be ?
It is no wonder that LKY prefer to see the Pledge as "Aspirations" and not "Idealism" as was seen by his own late colleague - S Rajaratnam.
Can we believe the solid statements that are covered in fluff ?
It is impressive to write in whimsical prose expressing your lofty and fluffy statement - "I do honour my vow to the constitution and my oath to our pledge" - but can we believe your honesty to keep your vow to a Constitution bastardised by the PAP, when you had also expressed your ability "to comprehend cold harsh realities from pure idealism in our human world" ?
Can we believe that you will give up your life to defend pure idealism ?
Have you forgotten your position in agreeing with LKY that the Pledge was a mere "Aspiration" ?
Would you honor your vow to a bastardised Singapore Constitution and to uphold a Pledge that you have agreed with MM LKY position that it is a mere "Aspiration" ?
Or should we expect your pragmatism to come into play to modify your "aspiration" in response to new found realities as you had so eloquently stated ?
What is your understanding between “an Aspiration(*1)” and “an Ideal(*2)” ?
Is it not ironical that you will abandon your failed positions taken in the other thread - ‘Singapore Pledge is only an aspiration’ - and will continue with your fraudulent efforts at being a bard with little to show from your own other than to imitate and plagiarise the ancient style of someone from the past ?
the gurkhas?
their fame was a fabrication.....an invention.....lies made up by the british in order to scare most simple folks.
if u care to visit Nepal,you can see most are as fat and unfit as any normal guy.kind a like trying to find a cool jap chick .
Nepal have Nepalese lah.
You think everyone in UK are SAS?
Everyone USA, are SEAL, or Delta Force?
All Russians are Spesnaz?
Originally posted by xtreyier:
....so too was the pakistani terrorists said to be fierce hill tribe warriors, fought with each other for centuries, later with Brits and India, and much feared. They came to Singapore on a hijacked plane in 1991, thinking Singaporeans were easy meat.
For one who indulge in so much fluff, it would have been advisable to carefully stuff more substance with the fluff to make yourself more believeable.
Are all Pakistanis hill tribe warriors from the ungovernable North West region that has been hogging the headlines recently ?
Have you mixed up the amateur Pakistani wannabe terrorists - who hijacked SQ117 flight from KUL to SGP on 26 March 1991 (*1) - - with the more vicious terrorists that hit the headlines beheading kidnapped Western journalists ?
But within 30secs upon entering, when most singaporeans were still asleep, it was the pakistani terrorists whom ended up on meat hooks, with courtesy by the Singaporean Commandos. All passengers on board the hijacked plane in Changi Airpot were saved, safe and sound.
And this is a published fact, but then, how much more would an MT line ORD personnel be expected to know?
Your continued story telling effort that is filled with all the fluff, make it sound quite impossible to believe that within 30 seconds of entering the hijacked SQ117 these Pakistanis had ended up on meat hooks (??? - where did you get this imaginative thought from ???).
After an entire night of failed negotiations, in which the hijackers demanded to speak to then Pakistani Prime Minister Mdm Benazir Buhtto - who refused to take the calls - the hijackers issued a final ultimatum at 06.45Hrs to kill one of the passengers.
The SAF Commandos swung into action in a 30 seconds sweep and by 06.50hrs they declared the plane secured.
The SAF Commandos was a convenient unit to conceal the actual unit that took out the hijackers, and it was eventually revealed that the unit was a classified newly set up SAF Special Operations Force trained as an elite counter-terrorism, special reconnaissance and operations unit.
Enjoy your cracking up, have fun, but live in peace. Be glad you are on our side.
(BTW, wasnt it the gurkhas whom were supposed to be guarding Mas Selamat when he escaped? So much for the 'sheathed kukri'. Not much use, was it? A bunch of them and couldnt even guard a lame terrorist.)
You should give more credit to the lowly educated Gurkhas instead of deriding them for their recent failures.
Are the Gurkhas good at guarding human prisoners or static positions ?
All through the centuries of British military relationship with the Gurkhas, have they used the Gurkhas as "War Dogs" or as "Watch Dogs" ?
As much as it was the mistakes made by a low IQ guard, who was outwitted by a more desperate, determined and cunning Mas Selamat Kastari, the mistake also lay with the chain of command that applied the services of the Gurkha poorly and wrongly.
The fighting quality of the Gurkhas was wrongly used to escort MSK from jail cell to the toilet and to the Visitor's Center, when this could have been done by an oridnary prison warden, and the Gurkha could have better used in external static security duties guarding the entire facility.
Abstract from -
During the Indonesian Konfrontasi campaign against Malaysia (*2) - The best known Claret operation occurred on 21 November 1965. A company from the 2/10 Gurkhas encountered a platoon sized force of Indonesians in an entrenched position in Kalimantan opposite Bau. The position was sited in a manner that meant that there was only one approach, which was along a ridge that was so narrow that only a small force of three men could move up it in line-abreast formation.[38]
Lance Corporal Rambahadur Limbu led an advanced party of sixteen men in an attack on the forward machine gun position, from where they were to provide support to the rest of the company during their attack. They were about 10 yards away when the Indonesian sentry opened fire, wounding one of the Gurkhas and alerting the rest of the platoon. Seeing the danger that they were in, Rambahadur Limbu rushed the machine gun and destroyed it with a grenade. Alerted, the rest of the Indonesian platoon began to fire on the forward pit, thus making it an untenable position from which to provide support for the company attack. In order to report this fact to his platoon commander, Limbu exposed himself to enemy fire before returning to pull two of his wounded comrades to safety. An hour long fire-fight followed which has since become known as the Battle of Bau, during which the Gurkha company launched an assault on the Indonesian position. At least 24 Indonesians were believed killed in the attack, while the Gurkhas suffered three killed and two wounded.
[38] Rambahadur Limbu subsequently received the Victoria Cross for his actions, with a misleading citation to obscure the fact that the operation was in Kalimantan. The company commander, Captain Kit Maunsell, a Queen's Gurkha Officer, Lieutenant Ranjit Rai, and the artillery forward observation officer, Lieutenant Doug Fox, Royal Artillery, attached to 137 (Java) Light Battery, each received the Military Cross.
This is what makes legends and provide the colors that make a fighting unit proud.
The SAF has a long way more to go, especially when during the Konfrontasi - 2SIR had one section of 8 men caught bathing in a river near to Labis in Johor, and were ambused by the maurading Indonesian infiltrators whom these boys were sent to hunt.
From the group of 8 men - one survived, two were wounded, the rest were killed and had their body mutiliated.
The rest of 2SIR redeemed themselves when they successfully tracked and killed the Indonesian inflitrators, and returned them the favor in their desired body art.
Originally posted by xtreyier:
knives? Remember, pal...the plane was fully loaded with highly inflammable jet fuel, the pakis had a full store of liquour and were ready to blow everyone to kingdom come, and yet those son of a bitches never had a chance to even light up a ciggie. They never even knew what hit them.
Knives ?
For heaven sake, the amateur Pakistani hijackers had armed themselves with the steel cutlery that were commonly issued with the inflight meals - (after this incident, all meals were served with plastic cutlery).
Their explosives consist of the liquor and alcohol that were taken from the First Class section, and the liquor and alcohol were poured all around the passenger cabin.
Was it effective in any way ?
With the alcohol readily evaporating within minutes of settling in glass or carpet, it is unlikely that the poured alochol will remain un-evaporated within minutes after pouring.
All terrorists dead and every single passenger ( mostly fellow singaporeans) saved is no mean feat. In fact, no other CT team in the world had ever achieve such a record.
The success was due as much to the hijackers of SQ117 who were all amateurs at hijacking, with none of them being muscular, agile, or tough - in fact all were chubby.
Armed with only the inflight service cutlery knives, and without any explosives or automatic rifles or even pistols - the four hijackers were doomed from the start.
None of the hijacked planes in the world had the good fortune of the SIA pilot being able to speak in dialect and getting accurate information of the situation in the plane to the security team negotiating with the hijackers.
With good intelligence received from the pilot of the hijacked plane, it gave new hopes for the entire operation to be a success.
But its ok if you dont take pride in what our men had done. They came unannounced, and disappeared unnoticed, asked for no recognition, but a job done for our people. And will do so again when the need arises, with no fanfare or accolade.
These are the Singaporean Commandos, of the past, the present and the future, under an even more efficient and effective 3G military command made up of our responsible fellow citizens, male and female, NSF and NSmen combined to protect our country from harm.
As mentioned earlier, these are not the Singapore SAF Commandos but an elite SAF Special Operation Force unit that is speciallised in counter terrorism activities.
This Special Operation Force was "submersed" into the SAF Commando orbat for the sake of concealment, and are manned by Regular Career personnels - unlike the SAF Commando unit that is now largely manned by NSF enlistees, and regular contract Officers providing the leadership.
Originally posted by HITMAN11111111111:the gurkhas?
their fame was a fabrication.....an invention.....lies made up by the british in order to scare most simple folks.
if u care to visit Nepal,you can see most are as fat and unfit as any normal guy.kind a like trying to find a cool jap chick .
Those who are fat and unfit are a different lot from those young Nepalese who vie so competitively to join the British Armed Forces in their regularly conducted recruitment exercises.
British Military recruit Nepalese for their Gurkha Regiment. (*1) once a year in December - with the cold harsh winter in the mountain range below Moutn Everest.
It is hardly an exercise for the fat ones.
Originally posted by mancha:Nepal have Nepalese lah.
You think everyone in UK are SAS?
Everyone USA, are SEAL, or Delta Force?
All Russians are Spesnaz?
All Male Singaporeans are SAF....
Originally posted by Arapahoe:All Male Singaporeans are SAF....
no lah, also got shemale in SAF ok
Originally posted by automator:
If the PAP will to do that, imagine what a stinking reputation they will leave behind to singapore and to other countries in this world too.
I will be glad if 1 day the PAP really use the Gurkhas to seize power.
After 40 years of forced conscripts, I am sure the majority of the soliders in SAF consisting of conscripts hates the PAP.
The conscripts can take this opportunity to fight with the Gurkhas.
No matter how powerful the Gurkhas are they only have guns or at most machine guns.
The SAF can send in their tanks and helicpoters and generades to bomb the Gurkhas into pieces and these pathetic Gurkhas guns can't even penerate the armour of the tanks.
Why u all guys like to talk about war, Gurkhas, arms, fighting, MP5, mp3..etc etc or machine guns..please lah. Have peace. Talk abit only or loose something only, want to fight and go for war liao. Really childish, hello! all uncles liao ok, use your cowsenses to think hor.
For me, if PAP lost, they will just call me up and send a company of sexy PRC gals into action by luring the opposition leaders or winner with charm and later expose their sex chauvinist image and gone are the opposition. So easy
Originally posted by Atobe:
Knives ?
For heaven sake, the amateur Pakistani hijackers had armed themselves with the steel cutlery that were commonly issued with the inflight meals - (after this incident, all meals were served with plastic cutlery).
Their explosives consist of the liquor and alcohol that were taken from the First Class section, and the liquor and alcohol were poured all around the passenger cabin.
Was it effective in any way ?
With the alcohol readily evaporating within minutes of settling in glass or carpet, it is unlikely that the poured alochol will remain un-evaporated within minutes after pouring.
The success was due as much to the hijackers of SQ117 who were all amateurs at hijacking, with none of them being muscular, agile, or tough - in fact all were chubby.
Armed with only the inflight service cutlery knives, and without any explosives or automatic rifles or even pistols - the four hijackers were doomed from the start.
None of the hijacked planes in the world had the good fortune of the SIA pilot being able to speak in dialect and getting accurate information of the situation in the plane to the security team negotiating with the hijackers.
With good intelligence received from the pilot of the hijacked plane, it gave new hopes for the entire operation to be a success.
As mentioned earlier, these are not the Singapore SAF Commandos but an elite SAF Special Operation Force unit that is speciallised in counter terrorism activities.
This Special Operation Force was "submersed" into the SAF Commando orbat for the sake of concealment, and are manned by Regular Career personnels - unlike the SAF Commando unit that is now largely manned by NSF enlistees, and regular contract Officers providing the leadership.
No lah, recently I took SIA, they give me metal forks and spoons too, but lower quality, I got a good collection of utensil from aeroplanes and hotels, but i only collect good ones, now SIA utensils is like foil, can bend here and there..shit, paid so much and get this type of utensils.
Actually hor, one of my best fren who is a stewardess told me she asked some of those old aunties stewardess who become ground crew about the pakistian hijacking. She said hor, actually the pakistian surrendered and wanted to seek asylum in singapore, but the stupid commandos were ordered to kill without remorse.
Originally posted by angel7030:
No lah, recently I took SIA, they give me metal forks and spoons too, but lower quality, I got a good collection of utensil from aeroplanes and hotels, but i only collect good ones, now SIA utensils is like foil, can bend here and there..shit, paid so much and get this type of utensils.
Actually hor, one of my best fren who is a stewardess told me she asked some of those old aunties stewardess who become ground crew about the pakistian hijacking. She said hor, actually the pakistian surrendered and wanted to seek asylum in singapore, but the stupid commandos were ordered to kill without remorse.
talk crap to discrupt discussion, go back and open legs in your brothel la, you open legs you can earn money
The Government appears to be telling young Singaporeans: You want debate, we’ll give it to you; you want Parliamentary democracy, you can have it too – but not necessarily through elections or a two-party system.
such a statment coming from a respectable figure in world politics are kinda childish. does he meant we should change to national socialist system? how can members within the same party offer the same challenge as oppsition party? why do you think american govt want to enforce the anti monopoly law against microsoft? do you think microsoft will offer cheaper, lower price software to the market once they eliminated the competitors? would you fight your own boss and put your job on the line?
common sense right?
Originally posted by Itedino:Haha.. Last time LKY rally, a lot of people will listen one. Now, maybe wun.
They can win the country, but not the people.
Lee said: “Without the elected President and if there is a freak (election) result, within two or three years, the army would have to come in and stop it.”
I'm concerned about this. What they gonna do? Use the military when they lose election?
Originally posted by ClaT:
I'm concerned about this. What they gonna do? Use the military when they lose election?
Unoe this sounds like what the Burmese Junta did to Aung San Suu Kyi.